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World of Warcraft |OT4| "Why do we keep playing? It is simply in our nature."

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Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Yeah I don't know if there are any "hard" specs left in the game in the traditional sense. "Quality of Life" fixes have taken the challenge out of most.
I'm trying to remember the "hardest" class in WoW since Vanilla, but I'm struggling with it >.< Feral in Wrath? I dunno.
 
As an Aff lock I would think you could start raiding once you are in mostly Heroics gear unless that team you are looking to join is on hard modes. Your spec is performing at our near the top on many fights and you'll be at an advantage going in. Talk to your pal about letting you in early. For spirits there is farming for them at Halfhill, and killing mobs everywhere.
 
I'm trying to remember the "hardest" class in WoW since Vanilla, but I'm struggling with it >.< Feral in Wrath? I dunno.

Yeah surprisingly enough it would probably be a class during Wrath (widely regarded as the easiest expansion). Either Affliction locks or Ferals. Probably Ferals as their priority list was about 15 steps of if/then statements that would give any programmer a hard-on.
 

McNei1y

Member
As an Aff lock I would think you could start raiding once you are in mostly Heroics gear unless that team you are looking to join is on hard modes. Your spec is performing at our near the top on many fights and you'll be at an advantage going in. Talk to your pal about letting you in early. For spirits there is farming for them at Halfhill, and killing mobs everywhere.

Yea I started the halfhill farms yesterday... Man this waiting a whole day thing sort of sucks though lol. I want to get in the game right now!

They were also saying they'll most likely take me if I get around that gear level but they want to make sure I'm geared out since they're doing pretty well with their current group so I'd have to be near there level.

I'm trying to remember the "hardest" class in WoW since Vanilla, but I'm struggling with it >.< Feral in Wrath? I dunno.

I've always thought Affliction warlocks were "tough" even though the idea behind it was simple. Back in BC and Wrath, there were some weird mechanics behind dots.
 
From Elitist Jerks, 3.3 Feral DPS guide:

"1. Keep up Savage Roar
2. Keep up Mangle
3. Keep up Rake
4. Use shred for CP regeneration (remember, that points 2 and 3 are more important)
5. When at 5 CP and Rip is not up, use Rip
6. When below 30 Energy, use TF
7. Use Clearcast Proccs for Shred
8. When at 5 CP and Rip and SR are running with 8 seconds (might be longer, depending on your gear) or longer each, use FB
9. When Rip and SR will drop at nearly the same time (with less than 3 seconds difference), try to recognize it early. Then use SR with a small amount of CP to desynchronize both timers.
10. Use Berserk only at high energy, (but not higher than 85) not directly after TF and as often as possible. If you will get Hysteria or some boss mechanics will enhance your damage, save it for these situations.


This priority list is quite hard to maintain. Cat DPS is one of the most complicated ones in PvE WoW. Try to remember these rules:

1. Remember: Savage Roar buffs everything; Mangle buffs bleeds and shred; Bleeds buff shred. That means, never shred without applying mangle and at least one bleeding.
2. It doesn't matter how many CP you use for SR. Just make sure it never drops!
3. Use Rip and FB only with 5 CP
4. It is very tricky to squeeze in FB's in your rotation. At first you should try to maximize SR, Mangle, Rip and Rake uptime (in this order). When you get more experienced, try to FB more. You need to guess how much time is needed for building up 5 CP's - this depends on your crit chance. Usually, a FB is worth dropping Rip for 4 Ticks approx (8 seconds). Remember that after using Rip, you need energy for building at least one more CP to refresh SR if necessary.
5. FB is most efficient when used at 35 energy. It gets worse when you spend more, thus making it least efficient when using with 65 energy.
6. A 5 CP FB is always more efficient than a shred, even when used at 65 energy.
7. When using the shred glyph: When rake and rip are about to expire and you could shred to extend the rip duration for 2 more seconds at the cost of letting rake drop for 1-2 seconds - do it."
 

Knch

Member
2. What is the best way to get motes of harmony? I'm a tailor and enchanter and I see that a lot of my mats require motes.

I'm also a tailor/enchanter, haven't seen any requirement for motes anywhere... (other than the Imperial silk cheat.)
Your farm can can provide you with as many motes as you have spots, otherwise you'll get plenty of motes from all the kill quests you'll do while grinding out the various reps.

3. How long does it take to get to honored/revered with the Lotus?

Too long.
 

mclem

Member
Yeah I don't know if there are any "hard" specs left in the game in the traditional sense. "Quality of Life" fixes have taken the challenge out of most.

Wouldn't that logic suggest that the class with the shittiest quality of life at the start of Vanilla was originally the 'hardest class'? I mean, I've rolled five-minute blessings on a 40-man raid in Molten Core, which was astronomically dull, but I wouldn't call it hard!
 

McNei1y

Member
I'm also a tailor/enchanter, haven't seen any requirement for motes anywhere... (other than the Imperial silk cheat.)
Your farm can can provide you with as many motes as you have spots, otherwise you'll get plenty of motes from all the kill quests you'll do while grinding out the various reps.



Too long.

1. What do you mean by "imperial silk" cheat? And that's the only thing I need Harmony for, unless I want to buy the blue PVP gear recipes, which I probably will down the road so I can make a quick 50g or so.

2. Too long as in a week? Two weeks? A month? I wish I was able to progress at my own rate. It's kind of lame that I have to wait on dailies alone to gain rep... even though it's been like that for quite awhile now.
 
3.3.5 feral had no real use for OOC procs besides Shred so it was pretty easy to play entirely deterministically which meant you could just download FeralByNight and do whatever it says as far as SR, rake, rip and FB timing went. 5.0 feral is arguably harder because you can't sit there spamming Shred as your main buttton since you need to twitch react to Thrash on OOC procs to get the most out of the spec.

QoL doesn't necessarily mean easier.
 

Knch

Member
1. What do you mean by "imperial silk" cheat? And that's the only thing I need Harmony for, unless I want to buy the blue PVP gear recipes, which I probably will down the road so I can make a quick 50g or so.

The regular Imperial silk has a cooldown of a day (now resets with the dailies instead of at midnight (I presume)) the one with the Harmony is a cheat around that. You'll need one of those PvP recipes to get to max level tailoring.

2. Too long as in a week? Two weeks? A month? I wish I was able to progress at my own rate. It's kind of lame that I have to wait on dailies alone to gain rep... even though it's been like that for quite awhile now.

I honestly can't remember, but more dailies open up as you reach honored/revered, so neutral to friend and friend to honored should take about the same time. With the commendation at revered, revered to exalted should take less time than honored to revered.
 

McNei1y

Member
The regular Imperial silk has a cooldown of a day (now resets with the dailies instead of at midnight (I presume)) the one with the Harmony is a cheat around that. You'll need one of those PvP recipes to get to max level tailoring.



I honestly can't remember, but more dailies open up as you reach honored/revered, so neutral to friend and friend to honored should take about the same time. With the commendation at revered, revered to exalted should take less time than honored to revered.

1. Yea I'm already maxed in both of my professions (did that at like 87). I guess I didn't see that there were two options for Imperial Silk since the only one I saw was converting 3 Harmony. There's a regular one that has a day cooldown?

2. Okay. I just want to reach honored so I can get some epic stuff and push my way into raiding... then again I wouldn't mind revered so I can start the August dailies.
 

Knch

Member
1. I guess I didn't see that there were two options for Imperial Silk since the only one I saw was converting 3 Harmony. There's a regular one that has a day cooldown?

Imperial Silk - 8 bolt, 1 day cooldown (550 recipe)
Song of Harmony - 5 bolt, 3 Spirit of Harmony, no cooldown (555 recipe)

First one now gives a Silk Cocoon that contains your Imperial silk and has a chance to drop a Silk worm pet.
 

Berordn

Member
First one now gives a Silk Cocoon that contains your Imperial silk and has a chance to drop a Silk worm pet.

There's a moth too!
338268.jpg

It's cute.
 
Wouldn't that logic suggest that the class with the shittiest quality of life at the start of Vanilla was originally the 'hardest class'? I mean, I've rolled five-minute blessings on a 40-man raid in Molten Core, which was astronomically dull, but I wouldn't call it hard!

I didn't say every change made for "Quality of Life" was a bad change. I said that a lot of classes/specs that were tough have been made easier because of some "Quality of Life" changes. Staying competitive as Feral was tough in Wrath, 5 minute blessings was annoying.
 

Tarazet

Member
3.3.5 feral had no real use for OOC procs besides Shred so it was pretty easy to play entirely deterministically which meant you could just download FeralByNight and do whatever it says as far as SR, rake, rip and FB timing went. 5.0 feral is arguably harder because you can't sit there spamming Shred as your main buttton since you need to twitch react to Thrash on OOC procs to get the most out of the spec.

QoL doesn't necessarily mean easier.

5.0 Feral is also about finding the right time to use Predatory Swiftness procs on Healing Touch and generate Dream of Cenarius charges, as well as using Nature's Swiftness strategically to generate DoC charges before Rip or even Thrash. I still haven't quite mastered it.

I haven't played around much with Heart of the Wild, but I can't imagine that popping out of cat form and nuking for 45 seconds would be a significant DPS gain except possibly on Will of the Emperor (horrible dancer).

I use Nature's Vigil in Guardian spec, because it heals the raid 3 times per Mangle if Berserk is also active and the abilities have the same cooldown.
 

Ultratech

Member
Yeah, I don't really understand priority much on Feral Druids. Just leveling through dungeons, most stuff dies before I can do everything I feel I need to do.

Other than keeping Savage Roar up, everything else feels like John Madden.



I'll help ya out a bit.

1. I want to raid, or at least be a spot starter, with my friend who is currently leading one of our guilds groups. I know I can't join them until I have like 466-470 ilvl. I'm currently at 455. What is the best way to go about matching the desired ilvl? When can I do raid finder? I've been running some heroics but those only give 463 or whatever.

I'd just keep running Heroics and getting whatever 463 gear you need. You can also get 458 gear with JP, and pretty good gear with Valor (489/496), but you need at least Honored/Revered with x Faction.
Random Scenarios also reward a box that can have pretty decent gear as well.

The first two LFR dungeons open up at 460, then the last three at 470.

You can also jump in killing Sha of Anger and Galleon to get some high-level loot.


2. What is the best way to get motes of harmony? I'm a tailor and enchanter and I see that a lot of my mats require motes.

Kill stuff. But barring that, take advantage of the Farm. I think you need Honored or Revered before you can buy the seeds that grow Motes, but it's probably the most efficient and guaranteed way of getting Motes other than slaughtering the countryside.

3. How long does it take to get to honored/revered with the Lotus?

Too long.
 

McNei1y

Member
Thanks for the help guys. I'll just suffer through the long grind until I reach honored :\

I started the farming area and lotus dailies so that's a start! I also killed Sha of Anger yesterday... For some reason I felt like yesterday was Monday, though, so I got angry when I realized I had to wait until next week to kill Sha again.
 

Tarazet

Member
Yeah, I don't really understand priority much on Feral Druids. Just leveling through dungeons, most stuff dies before I can do everything I feel I need to do.

Other than keeping Savage Roar up, everything else feels like John Madden.

I'll help ya out a bit.

If you're leveling through dungeons, take Glyph of Prowl. It's a huge help if the pace is fast to be able to open with Ravage. Most of the finer details only come up during long boss burns or raiding.
 

strafer

member
So I was doing AQ40, for some rep and the Doomcaller set.

I'm glad I never did AQ40 back in Vanilla cause damn, trash fucking everywhere and knockbacks to hell and back.
 
Dammit! I finally won an invitation to the brawler's guild... and it turns out it's bound to the character I had stationed at the black market, which is obviously not the main character that I'm levelling.

I'm asking a GM, but I don't expect much. Still, that's about a third of my savings wasted on a character I'm not planning to level until possibly after my monk and mage, and I wasn't planning on doing the brawler thing with more than one character...
 

Draxal

Member
So I was doing AQ40, for some rep and the Doomcaller set.

I'm glad I never did AQ40 back in Vanilla cause damn, trash fucking everywhere and knockbacks to hell and back.

The emperor trash was annoying if you got the wrong combos (poison and meteors) and pre c'thun trash with getting mced into wws killed alot of people.
 

Rokam

Member
Dammit! I finally won an invitation to the brawler's guild... and it turns out it's bound to the character I had stationed at the black market, which is obviously not the main character that I'm levelling.

I'm asking a GM, but I don't expect much. Still, that's about a third of my savings wasted on a character I'm not planning to level until possibly after my monk and mage, and I wasn't planning on doing the brawler thing with more than one character...

It's account wide.
 

ch0mp

Member
S4. For Affliction Warlocks the rotation is pretty simple it seems, but when I have a soul shard, do I just instantly cast Haunt or is there some preferred situation to save the shard? Also, what are the recommended major glyphs? I'm using Soul Shard, Everlasting Affliction, and Dark Soul: Misery.
Haunt: never have 4 shards up because you're wasting shadow trance procs. I often save one or two for when dark soul is up, but otherwise just use them as you have them.
Soul shard is good, everlasting not so great. It's a dps loss. Dark soul I would only use if you want to hold off using it till a specific time. I default to soul shard, with siphon life and health stone for the healing benefits.
 

Zafir

Member
Take it there's no plans to fix the glaring twink issues in pvp?

I got resurrected the other day and boosted my old character to 80, the gear given gave me about 25k hp. I jumped into pvp and they had 197k.... Surely that aint right? I expected to be a bit behind because I've virtually nothing now thanks to the power creep, but that seems awfully steep.
 
The emperor trash was annoying if you got the wrong combos (poison and meteors) and pre c'thun trash with getting mced into wws killed alot of people.

Still very much the most obnoxious trash in the whole game. You can't even skip emps trash because at least the 3 closest to them aggro if you pull without clearing it and they will mess you up.

Also, 5.1 can now die in a fire because they nerfed Raining Blood to uselessness. Why must you hate rogues Blizzard.
 

TheYanger

Member
Emps trash was awesome, took actual strategy to kill. C'thun trash was too much, but it also stayed dead once you killed it, pack by pack. I thought the packs with the 2 obsidians were very interesting.
 
From Elitist Jerks, 3.3 Feral DPS guide:

"1. Keep up Savage Roar
2. Keep up Mangle
3. Keep up Rake
4. Use shred for CP regeneration (remember, that points 2 and 3 are more important)
5. When at 5 CP and Rip is not up, use Rip
6. When below 30 Energy, use TF
7. Use Clearcast Proccs for Shred
8. When at 5 CP and Rip and SR are running with 8 seconds (might be longer, depending on your gear) or longer each, use FB
9. When Rip and SR will drop at nearly the same time (with less than 3 seconds difference), try to recognize it early. Then use SR with a small amount of CP to desynchronize both timers.
10. Use Berserk only at high energy, (but not higher than 85) not directly after TF and as often as possible. If you will get Hysteria or some boss mechanics will enhance your damage, save it for these situations.


This priority list is quite hard to maintain. Cat DPS is one of the most complicated ones in PvE WoW. Try to remember these rules:

1. Remember: Savage Roar buffs everything; Mangle buffs bleeds and shred; Bleeds buff shred. That means, never shred without applying mangle and at least one bleeding.
2. It doesn't matter how many CP you use for SR. Just make sure it never drops!
3. Use Rip and FB only with 5 CP
4. It is very tricky to squeeze in FB's in your rotation. At first you should try to maximize SR, Mangle, Rip and Rake uptime (in this order). When you get more experienced, try to FB more. You need to guess how much time is needed for building up 5 CP's - this depends on your crit chance. Usually, a FB is worth dropping Rip for 4 Ticks approx (8 seconds). Remember that after using Rip, you need energy for building at least one more CP to refresh SR if necessary.
5. FB is most efficient when used at 35 energy. It gets worse when you spend more, thus making it least efficient when using with 65 energy.
6. A 5 CP FB is always more efficient than a shred, even when used at 65 energy.
7. When using the shred glyph: When rake and rip are about to expire and you could shred to extend the rip duration for 2 more seconds at the cost of letting rake drop for 1-2 seconds - do it."

There's no way people enjoyed this.

No wonder I didn't see any cat druids when I was playing during Wrath.
 

Procarbine

Forever Platinum
Haunt: never have 4 shards up because you're wasting shadow trance procs. I often save one or two for when dark soul is up, but otherwise just use them as you have them.
Soul shard is good, everlasting not so great. It's a dps loss. Dark soul I would only use if you want to hold off using it till a specific time. I default to soul shard, with siphon life and health stone for the healing benefits.

With regard to soul shard consumption, it greatly depends on your trinkets. Once you've got decent gear your trinkets will be proc based rather than on use, so you should save soul shards for when one or more of your buffs are up. I would advise only using your shards when you either have 4 or you have a proc up. If you using windsong, I wouldn't use shards with the crit proc, but the others should be ok. I wouldn't want to be in a place where I have +6k int and no shards.

If you have the opportunity to be killing things to refill your shards, use them as much as you can. Or if you see the fight nearing 20% and you have plenty of shards, dump them as you will be refilling from drain soul.
 

Chris R

Member
What the hell is up with green prices? Trying to get a basic set of gear for my off spec on my alt at 85 and people are charging 350+ for greens...
 

Berordn

Member
What the hell is up with green prices? Trying to get a basic set of gear for my off spec on my alt at 85 and people are charging 350+ for greens...

Greens are (dis)enchanting mats, and the ones dropped have unique colors for transmog, plus they're a significant upgrade over Cata dungeon blues and questing greens, and they can be decent for 85 twinks.

It's not uncommon to see price hikes every time you hit a new expansion's content when it comes to greens.
 

Sarcasm

Member
What the hell is up with green prices? Trying to get a basic set of gear for my off spec on my alt at 85 and people are charging 350+ for greens...

Ignore the AH..go to the vendor that sells ilvl 318 or something (in jade forest you may have to do a few+ quests to access the vendor option) and gear up there every slot.
 

Westlo

Member
77-79 Cata greens are a hot market for levelers and ppl who want to dominate in pvp at those levels.

Same thing applies to MOP 83-84 greens and even better are those over 400 ilevel blue gear from levels 80-84.
 

Tarazet

Member
There's no way people enjoyed this.

No wonder I didn't see any cat druids when I was playing during Wrath.

It's not really that different now. There's a little quality of life improvement, but the basics are still pretty similar.

From Elitist Jerks, 3.3 Feral DPS guide:

"1. Keep up Savage Roar
2. Keep up Mangle
3. Keep up Rake
4. Use shred for CP regeneration (remember, that points 2 and 3 are more important)
5. When at 5 CP and Rip is not up, use Rip
6. When below 30 Energy, use TF
7. Use Clearcast Proccs for Shred
8. When at 5 CP and Rip and SR are running with 8 seconds (might be longer, depending on your gear) or longer each, use FB
9. When Rip and SR will drop at nearly the same time (with less than 3 seconds difference), try to recognize it early. Then use SR with a small amount of CP to desynchronize both timers.
10. Use Berserk only at high energy, (but not higher than 85) not directly after TF and as often as possible. If you will get Hysteria or some boss mechanics will enhance your damage, save it for these situations.

1. Still have to do that, but there is a glyph that lets you use SR with 0 combo points. This way, you can prepull with SR and then use your first 5-pointer on Rip, then the next on a longer SR.
2. Mangle no longer buffs bleeds. Infected Wounds is applied by Shred or Mangle, so you will have 100% uptime no matter what.
3. Still have to keep up Rake.
4. You still use Shred for CP generation, but Mangle is almost as good (20% less damage for 15% less energy, but faster combo point generation given fixed energy gen). Particularly if you take Soul of the Forest, Mangle's improved combo point generation might actually be a DPS gain, and it doesn't have a positional requirement.
5. Same.
6. Same.
7. Use Omen of Clarity procs on Thrash.
8. Same. During execute phase, FB refreshes the duration of Rip, so you'll use it almost every time.
9. In this event, you have the option of refreshing Rip and then maintaining SR using 0-1 combo points.
10. Same.

This priority list is quite hard to maintain. Cat DPS is one of the most complicated ones in PvE WoW. Try to remember these rules:

1. Remember: Savage Roar buffs everything; Mangle buffs bleeds and shred; Bleeds buff shred. That means, never shred without applying mangle and at least one bleeding.
2. It doesn't matter how many CP you use for SR. Just make sure it never drops!
3. Use Rip and FB only with 5 CP
4. It is very tricky to squeeze in FB's in your rotation. At first you should try to maximize SR, Mangle, Rip and Rake uptime (in this order). When you get more experienced, try to FB more. You need to guess how much time is needed for building up 5 CP's - this depends on your crit chance. Usually, a FB is worth dropping Rip for 4 Ticks approx (8 seconds). Remember that after using Rip, you need energy for building at least one more CP to refresh SR if necessary.
5. FB is most efficient when used at 35 energy. It gets worse when you spend more, thus making it least efficient when using with 65 energy.
6. A 5 CP FB is always more efficient than a shred, even when used at 65 energy.
7. When using the shred glyph: When rake and rip are about to expire and you could shred to extend the rip duration for 2 more seconds at the cost of letting rake drop for 1-2 seconds - do it."

1. Savage Roar buffs white damage and physical attacks (not bleeds); bleeds buff Shred. Mangle debuff no longer exists.
2. It does matter how many CP you use for SR now, because it costs a fixed amount of energy.
3. Same.
4. Same, though I don't think FB's damage is worth dropping Rip any longer.
5. FB now uses up to 100% more energy (max 50) to do up to 100% more damage. It's a better use of combo points to use it with more energy, but not if you run the risk of letting Rip or SR drop off.
6. Still true.
7. Glyph of Shred now removes the positional requirement for 6 seconds after using Tiger's Fury. Not essential, but handy for soloing and fights like the Sha of Fear that force you to be in front.
 

Sophia

Member
There's no way people enjoyed this.

No wonder I didn't see any cat druids when I was playing during Wrath.

Yeah it was pretty awful. Then they changed Savage Roar for Cata and it became one of the most amazing rotations in the game except for like bosses you couldn't hit from behind...

... then they changed Savage Roar back for MoP and it became mostly awful again. :p

1. Savage Roar buffs white damage and physical attacks (not bleeds); bleeds buff Shred. Mangle debuff no longer exists..

This is wrong. They revered it back to the Wrath model, it absolutely does affect bleeds now. Hence why all the MoP guides say to prioritize it over Rip:

Savage Roar - Increases all damage by 30%. You can use this ability on mobs that are dead if you still have combo points on it. You should use this ability immediately when the existing Savage Roar buff fades, at any amount of Combo Points that you have (it is not necessary to be at 5). This is a very important buff to keep up 100% of the time. Prioritize over Rip/FB.
 

TomServo

Junior Member
Got lucky with LFR drops last night and got both my tier chest and helm. Now have 5p t14, sha-touched weapon w/ gem, and only one piece of gear left from heroics.

Time for this LFR hero to take a break until 5.2. My old heroic progression guild is trying to get back together, and I must resist the pull!
 

Rokam

Member
Got lucky with LFR drops last night and got both my tier chest and helm. Now have 5p t14, sha-touched weapon w/ gem, and only one piece of gear left from heroics.

Time for this LFR hero to take a break until 5.2. My old heroic progression guild is trying to get back together, and I must resist the pull!

I use that term too! You're alright.
 

mclem

Member
Joy of joys, happiness unbound: We've had a rocky start to MoP; lost some good players and occasionally struggled to even fill a ten, but we've had a bit of good fortune with recent recruitment to the extent that last night, for the first time in *ages*, we actually managed to run with a full 25-man raid.

My word, I've missed it. 3/6 in MSV - probably would have got Spirit Kings in due course if time hadn't beaten us, had some very narrow wipes. In tens we're through MSV and first boss down in HoF, so that's something we can always fall back on (I suspect we won't have this quality of attendance outside of Wednesdays. It doesn't help that *I* can't make it tonight).

Would love to try out 25-man Elegon. Is he easier or harder than 10-man? If nothing else, I'd imagine that he's a little more forgiving on DPS, but... we'll see!

(Fun aside: 3/6 MSV, I believe, makes us the joint most-progressed guild in 25-man content on Alliance side on our backwater server. Spirit Kings would put us top. That gives us a unique selling point, at least, I'm hoping that actually being able to advertise ourselves as Very Definitely A 25-Man Guild would pique people's interests if they want to try out something a little larger-scale)
 
Honestly Mclem I stay the hell away from 25m guilds because every other raid night starts late or not at all if they can't plug the inevitable holes that exist every night. The only exception being very established and progressed 25 man guilds that have no issues with recruiting.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Tell me when MG is up please.
 
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