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World of Warcraft |OT5| Where we're going, we're gonna need roads

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R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
Zerokku said:
So from some of the rumblings I've been hearing - We will likely be getting a bombshell about WoD raiding today. Specifically - Tier gear will only be available from Flex(Normal) and up. No tier gear in LFR.

Also potentially the Garrison Artcraft today. Possibly tomorrow. Its supposed to be sometime this week either way.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Dev Watercooler: Raiding Azeroth Part 3 will most likely be published today.

I find the change to Raid Finder and tier armor very nice. Hopefully there will be no legendary progression (collect tokens etc.) via Raid Finder either so this, in my opinion, awful mode can be skipped completely.
 
M

Marven

Member
Dev Watercooler on Raiding: Pt 3

.. Raid Finder in Warlords will have different loot tables than the Normal, Heroic, or Mythic versions of the raids, along with different item art. The gear will fall in between dungeon loot and Normal mode raid loot in terms of power, as it does today, but without the set bonuses and specific trinkets that tend to make raiders feel like they need to run Raid Finder alongside their weekly guild raids today.
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They are also "nearly doubling the rate of reward" in the LFR. Not sure how that's going to shake out, but I'm fine with never having to hit the LFR again as a raider.
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
mclem said:
While I can't wait for Flex in Warlords, it's going to eat away at me that at some points I'm going to just have to bench people because having them is actively detrimental; the nerfs to boss abilities that come from removing them is more potent than the DPS they bring.

I'm not looking forward to having to make that call... but conversely, I am looking forward to having the ability to make that call. For now I'm ensuring that all the players who I don't believe I can rely on are aware of the fact that it's going to be a factor down the line.
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Eh, but you're gonna have to get them in eventually if you plan to do Mythic because they're gonna need gear for that, and you won't be able to sit them out on that.

Also, I'm sure they know what they're doing, but I'm really worried about loot competition in WoD. Namely the resto shaman going after enhance shaman armor, etc due to the changing stats
 
G

GasProblem

Member
Yeah, LFR will be dead. Queues are already pretty long, can't imagine what they'll be like in WoD. And all the even remotely skilled players won't run LFR anymore, which will make LFR even more annoying.
 
G

Gentleman Jack

Member
ciaossu said:
Guys, remember that raid finder will now scale between 10 - 25 players, so that might help out queues a bit.
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I doubt it. The removal of trinkets/tier bonuses will keep anybody skilled from queuing at all. Without the flex changes the queues would have quadrupled. I predict the 10-25 scaling will yield queues that struggle to reach where they are now. Better than the worst case scenario, still worse than today.
 
B

Berordn

Member
Gentleman Jack said:
I doubt it. The removal of trinkets/tier bonuses will keep anybody skilled from queuing at all. Without the flex changes the queues would have quadrupled. I predict the 10-25 scaling will yield queues that struggle to reach where they are now. Better than the worst case scenario, still worse than today.
Click to expand...

That's assuming they don't tune it to compensate for the obvious lesser interest and unskilled players, though. If they just want it to be a quick romp so you can see the latest chapter of Metzen Writing™ and it asks for same level of awareness to mechanics that SoO demands today then that's an utter failure on their part.
 
LAUGHTREY

LAUGHTREY

Modesty becomes a woman
RPGCrazied said:
Lol. LFR now only dropping dungeon style loot, no tier gear or trinkets. Get bent Blizzard. I'm not going to run LFR anymore.
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That's the point. It's really stupid to have 3-4 steps of raiding, or having LFR be the catchup. Doing older raids should be the catchup, it makes the game less boring when you have to run your guild through karazhan-gruuls-mags-ZulAman.

LFR being 5 man level difficulty and giving 5 man level loot is perfect. The idea is to see the raid and coast through it one time, not do it weekly like regular raiding.
 
E

Entropia

No One Remembers
Gentleman Jack said:
I doubt it. The removal of trinkets/tier bonuses will keep anybody skilled from queuing at all. Without the flex changes the queues would have quadrupled. I predict the 10-25 scaling will yield queues that struggle to reach where they are now. Better than the worst case scenario, still worse than today.
Click to expand...

It's kind of annoying that LFR people will bitch about not getting the same gear when the purpose of LFR is to be able to experience the raid content. You can't have it both ways.

If you want to have better gear you'll have to run with a dedicated team.
 
S

StMeph

Member
ciaossu said:
Guys, remember that raid finder will now scale between 10 - 25 players, so that might help out queues a bit.
Click to expand...

That scaling is really only to help when people leave halfway though, or getting a raid rolling when a few people bail at the initial zone-ready check, I think.

DPS have queues in LFR because there are too many DPS for a full-sized raid (25) relative to the numbers of tanks and healers. Just because the raid is suddenly flexible in size doesn't made the queue time any less for DPS, especially if there was already trouble at the max available size.

Berordn said:
That's assuming they don't tune it to compensate for the obvious lesser interest and unskilled players, though. If they just want it to be a quick romp so you can see the latest chapter of Metzen Writing™ and it asks for same level of awareness to mechanics that SoO demands today then that's an utter failure on their part.
Click to expand...

SoO LFR is already pretty neutered. Yes, there are still wipes. But if you neuter it any harder, it will basically be Molten Core.
 
RPGCrazied

RPGCrazied

Member
LAUGHTREY said:
That's the point. It's really stupid to have 3-4 steps of raiding, or having LFR be the catchup. Doing older raids should be the catchup, it makes the game less boring when you have to run your guild through karazhan-gruuls-mags-ZulAman.

LFR being 5 man level difficulty and giving 5 man level loot is perfect. The idea is to see the raid and coast through it one time, not do it weekly like regular raiding.
Click to expand...

Eh. Its not like LFR is face roll now. I still encounter wipes. Take the dermination thing away then, if its such a problem. If I wanted to see content bad enough I'd just go to youtube and watch it. Why on earth would I que up for it in WoD? The new art for LFR gear is really bad now too.

How about keep the looks of the new art now, but still keep it tier, but make the bonus's lower or something that won't affect the hardcore raider. Win/WIn for everyone!
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Gentleman Jack said:
People get carried in heroic raids these days. Only difference is they pay gold for the privilege.
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It still means they did something to earn the gold rather than join lfr, sit and auto attack because they're used to normal geared/heroic geared people or undergeared people who actually give a crap carrying everything due to the cloak quest. As I've always said, LFR is 5 people fighting one boss. Flex is 10 people fighting one boss. LFR is harder than flex.
 
B

Berordn

Member
StMeph said:
SoO LFR is already pretty neutered. Yes, there are still wipes. But if you neuter it any harder, it will basically be Molten Core.
Click to expand...

If the difficulty matches the reward, I don't really see the issue.

I actually assumed that MC-esque zerging is what they had in mind based on the blog post.
 
J

JCizzle

Member
I get all my alts tier gear in LFR for transmog. This sucks ass. This seems like the expansion of taking shit away. I hope I'm wrong, but it's taking on the same feel I had leading up to the disaster that was Cata. Miscalculations and trying too hard to be the smartest person in the room with unnecessary changes that aren't fully thought out. They fucked up badly before, they're not infallible again.
 
S

StayDead

Member
Dragonzord said:
It still means they did something to earn the gold rather than join lfr, sit and auto attack because they're used to normal geared/heroic geared people or undergeared people who actually give a crap carrying everything due to the cloak quest. As I've always said, LFR is 5 people fighting one boss. Flex is 10 people fighting one boss. LFR is harder than flex.
Click to expand...

I'm stuck on LFR and let me tell you, it's not easy.

I can't go into flex because my ilvl isn't high enough, but I can't get my ilvl any higher without doing flex so I'm stuck. Hopefully I can start raiding with the guild I'm in as a social soon, but they're trialing a boomkin now so I'm not sure.
 
B

BigWeather

Member
I'm fine with them keeping tier gear but without set bonuses in LFR. Love it for transmog and the tier gear always looks nifty. Removing tier gear entirely from LFR? WoW lost yet another customer.

Edit: Not a rage quit, though. I came back after an absence for Dragon Soul specifically because I could get tier gear via LFR, and stayed through Mists for that reason. It is pretty much the only goal I have in game, collecting a complete set of each tier (not all the difficulty levels, just one difficulty level). With the exception of a couple of pieces from early-Cataclysm I have it all, and was very much looking forward to doing more in WoD. The other features, and returning to Outland, really don't interest me.
 
C

ch0mp

Member
StayDead said:
I'm stuck on LFR and let me tell you, it's not easy.

I can't go into flex because my ilvl isn't high enough, but I can't get my ilvl any higher without doing flex so I'm stuck. Hopefully I can start raiding with the guild I'm in as a social soon, but they're trialing a boomkin now so I'm not sure.
Click to expand...
So your ilvl is around 530? I can see a bunch of flex groups on OQ running with as low as a 510 requirement.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
StayDead said:
I'm about 525 and on Silvermoon people want ilvls of 550 or you're not getting in anywhere. It's a real pain in the neck.
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Seriously? That's so dumb. I've gotten into flex at like 528 item lvl.

Now flex 4 most groups require you to be up there in the 540's, but flex 1 and 2 are not that hard.
 
R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
13/14 now in Siege of Orgrimmar Normal, item level increased to 561. Hopefully defeating Garrosh on Friday.
 
S

StayDead

Member
Berordn said:
I was about to say, the Silvermoon I left couldn't afford to have requirements like that.
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Silvermoon EU is one of the best PvE servers worldwide I think. Inner Sanctum who I believe are still ranked top 10 alliance guilds overall are on it <3

I used to be in the second best guild on our server until that folded, now I'm in the third or fourth (no idea anymore) as a social rank.
 
LAUGHTREY

LAUGHTREY

Modesty becomes a woman
RPGCrazied said:
Eh. Its not like LFR is face roll now. I still encounter wipes. Take the dermination thing away then, if its such a problem. If I wanted to see content bad enough I'd just go to youtube and watch it. Why on earth would I que up for it in WoD? The new art for LFR gear is really bad now too.

How about keep the looks of the new art now, but still keep it tier, but make the bonus's lower or something that won't affect the hardcore raider. Win/WIn for everyone!
Click to expand...

They're not making an effort to please the casual crowd who subs for a month and then quits with super easy content with awesome rewards anymore at the sacrifice of making it more tedious and required raid time for the more invested players.

This is pretty simple, and nothing but a good thing.

God I wish I could go back to 2012 and hear all the bitching about LFR even being a thing at all again. It's much better than complaining about not getting gear for doing face-roll raids.
 
W

Windam

Scaley member
I'm iLvl 506 and everyone on Illidan seems to want iLvl 560 Hunters to run flex. Raid finder never drops anything good for me, either. Highest item I got from it was 502 (Saurok Stalker's Tunic). How do I do this? :(
 
B

Berordn

Member
Windam said:
I'm iLvl 506 and everyone on Illidan seems to want iLvl 560 Hunters to run flex. Raid finder never drops anything good for me, either. Highest item I got from it was 502 (Saurok Stalker's Tunic). How do I do this? :(
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For starters, you're going to want to be running SoO over ToT. 528 ilevel vs. 502.
 
C

CarbonatedFalcon

Member
Did a flex Garrosh tonight. No heirloom :(

Hopefully he's generous on Saturday. Gonna be real awkward if I only end up having a single 1H sword.

And I want to get back on track with progression after being waylaid the past couple weeks. Gonna be disappointed if we don't get at least 3 Heroic bosses down this lockout, even if we don't manage the 4th or a new boss. Would like to see a new kill in the next week or two. I don't think I'm liable to leave at the moment (possibly switch teams in-guild), but I do have to say it's getting old showing up to just clear normal farm content when there's essentially no gear progression for me left there. I'm Valor Point capped with nothing to spend it on.
 
D

Dawg

Member
StayDead said:
Silvermoon EU is one of the best PvE servers worldwide I think. Inner Sanctum who I believe are still ranked top 10 alliance guilds overall are on it <3

I used to be in the second best guild on our server until that folded, now I'm in the third or fourth (no idea anymore) as a social rank.
Click to expand...

I think I'm playing on the Horde equivalent of SIlvermoon... which is Twisting Nether EU. It's cool to see Method around.

Cross-realm zones have been a bitch though. I shouldn't complain, but before X-realm... I barely saw any alliance. There's only about 1% Alliance on Twisting Nether.

Now I can't even level my alt or some random dude from a different server kills me. I'm fighting a quest mob, a hunter starts attacking me. I'm mining a thorium vein, a level 90 gnome jumps down on me and kills me so he can mine it. And stuff like that happens all the time now.

Again, I shouldn't complain because a PvP server is a choice you make... but I can't deny I picked this server because I knew it was the most active Horde server. Barely any Alliance was also a plus because I don't always like being ganked. I still like fighting back when a random dude attacks me, but with X-realm it feels kinda... antisocial. A bit like cross-realm dungeons. Enemies feel less like enemies and more like random NPCs that attack you and which you might never see again :p
 
S

StayDead

Member
I love the xrealm stuff, there's 0 horde on Silvermoon and since it's a PvE server (I used to play on PvP) if I ever come across a hordie in lower level areas or even alliance from other servers I'll always fly down and /greet them before running off happy knowing I hopefully made someone a little bit happier :>
 
O

Orochinagis

Member
I will miss tier set in FLR, the flex requirements in my server are always 530ilv to nearly 550ilv for the last one. It would be imposible if you dont find a core space in your guild.
 
M

mclem

Member
Orochinagis said:
I will miss tier set in FLR, the flex requirements in my server are always 530ilv to nearly 550ilv for the last one. It would be imposible if you dont find a core space in your guild.
Click to expand...

I assume that's - in part - the intent, encouraging people to form stronger bonds.
 
S

StMeph

Member
I use oQueue. Plenty of Flex raids that only need 520-530s, which is more than doable through LFR gear alone, without adding Celestials or PvP 550 gear.
 
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