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[mclem]

So being able to queue up for LFR and get some meaningful rewards through LFR is really the only chance I have at any sort of progression and experiencing content.

The rewards ought to be meaningful at the level you're recieving them, at least; that should be unchanged. Do note that they've only spoken in terms of tier gear and some trinkets being removed from LFR.

I can't commit to raiding 2-4 nights a week, that's just not how my life works, but LFR allowed me to enjoy content that would otherwise be walled off to me,

That is unchanged.

AND I got the same stuff, just lower levels and different colors.

Maybe it's a raider's mentality here, but I'm not clear why that's important. Trinkets aren't even visible! And to jump ahead a little:

If LFR and 5mans spit out the same gear then you can bet that people will avoid lfr and do 5 mans. Less hassle, less randoms, etc. Which takes away chances for someone like me being able to see any content past 5 mans.

Note this line from the Watercooler:

The gear will fall in between dungeon loot and Normal mode raid loot in terms of power, as it does today, but without the set bonuses and specific trinkets that tend to make raiders feel like they need to run Raid Finder alongside their weekly guild raids today.

---

It also leaves me in a place where if I can get into a regular pug run I'm not getting assaulted by bullshit like "L2P" because I've at least experiences a version of those bosses before.

LFR-as-education always struck me as a bit problematic in that, frankly, it can teach you the wrong things - things you can ignore in LFR you really can't in later difficulties, and so you get used to not noticing it. Mind you, that's not quite an issue unique to LFR - there's a debuff in Norushen on the tank that I pretty much ignore in Normal, but have to at least be conscious of in heroic.

Still, it does work to give you a basic overview of the fight.

I know that offends some hardcore people who feel like people who don't play 40 hours a week shouldn't be able to see anything, but they can eat a dick.

There does need to be a line *somewhere*, unfortunately. LFR gives a player all the lore content, gear that is an improvement over what they can get elsewhere.

Where I think you might have an argument, though, is the fact that with the increased droprates, you may well 'finish' - i.e. be satisfactorily fully-geared - LFR faster than you have done in the past. At that point, I think Blizzard's intent is for you to stop if you're sated, but if you crave more, to explore the Raid Finder.

What kills me about this whole thing is that people who have regular access to a guild are acting like LFR is something they have to do and I feel like that is why LFR is essentially being marginalized. I saw this same bullshit with LK when people were like "OMFG 10 MAN AND 25 MAN ARE SEPERATE LOCK OUTS BLIZZARD IS MAKING ME RUN BOTH!" and they weren't. People put themselves on the gear treadmill.

The issue comes from the fact that tier bonusses and trinkets - the two things that are being removed from LFR - are *too* good; they can have playstyle implications that have a massive difference to how you perform. Theck - big Paladin theorycraft guy - did tests that suggest that LFR Siege of Orgrimmar Paladin tank tier gear is only slightly worse than heroic warforged offspec gear, down to the fact that the set bonuses are so powerful!

Now, maybe that's a call to nerf such things in general - I do think the pally situation is an outlier, but then you risk taking away a feeling of major power progression. It's not a trivial problem, here, and I think Blizzard have come up with a reasonable solution.

*edit* I read some where else that there is going to be a group finder for flex. Is that true? If it is, then that's essentially going to replace LFR and that doesn't bother me.

There is. It seems to be fundamentally OQ implemented in game.

 

[mclem]

As for what you're essentially saying: "I don't have enough time but I want the same rewards as those no-life nerds who can play all day" I'm guessing this is going to be the vocal minorities battle cry in the coming months when they realize what is happening to them.

I'm not sure that it is the vocal minority here. That's rather hard to judge, but I suspect that's the actual problem; there's a number of people who are capable of raiding, but the pursuit of LFR and fear of raid groups is powerful enough that they never step up. Reducing the content in LFR slightly and making raid groups more accessible ought to make it easier to make the jump.

Some people simply won't be able to, I accept that. But I think there's a significant group who *can* but *don't think they can*. In my guild at the moment I'm trying to think of ways to extend an olive branch to those groups for recruitment purposes. Toying with the idea of opening up invites for flex achievement runs as a 'recruitment fair' sort of thing!

 

[LAUGHTREY]

I'm not sure that it is the vocal minority here. That's rather hard to judge, but I suspect that's the actual problem; there's a number of people who are capable of raiding, but the pursuit of LFR and fear of raid groups is powerful enough that they never step up. Reducing the content in LFR slightly and making raid groups more accessible ought to make it easier to make the jump.

Some people simply won't be able to, I accept that. But I think there's a significant group who *can* but *don't think they can*. In my guild at the moment I'm trying to think of ways to extend an olive branch to those groups for recruitment purposes. Toying with the idea of opening up invites for flex achievement runs as a 'recruitment fair' sort of thing!

LFR is young in the grand scheme of things. We got through BC, WotLK and Most of Cata without it, and those were the highest sub numbers WoW had. People for the most part are going to be happy they have less things they "have" to do.

 

[mclem]

LFR is young in the grand scheme of things. We got through BC, WotLK and Most of Cata without it, and those were the highest sub numbers WoW had. People for the most part are going to be happy they have less things they "have" to do.

Don't get me wrong, I agree in most cases. I'm just also observing that there's a barrier - largely psychological - blocking some people from moving on from LFR, and it looks like Blizzard are looking to erode that - and I, in terms of recruitment to the guild, need to figure out how to leverage that into getting us larger. Not least because I suspect there will be pressure from a different direction to siphon off our good players to fill out a Mythic team.

 

[Data West]

This mount would be a thousand times cooler if it didn't have the stripes.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Don't get me wrong, I agree in most cases. I'm just also observing that there's a barrier - largely psychological - blocking some people from moving on from LFR, and it looks like Blizzard are looking to erode that - and I, in terms of recruitment to the guild, need to figure out how to leverage that into getting us larger. Not least because I suspect there will be pressure from a different direction to siphon off our good players to fill out a Mythic team.

The barrier is less psychological than you think. It's the pathological devotion to raiding on central/eastern time that cuts me off, specifically. 2/3 of normal raids on my Pacific time server start at 5pm and that's pure bullshit. That's why I ran LFR so much this expansion. That and only that.

 

[mclem]

The barrier is less psychological than you think. It's the pathological devotion to raiding on central/eastern time that cuts me off, specifically. 2/3 of normal raids on my Pacific time server start at 5pm and that's pure bullshit. That's why I ran LFR so much this expansion. That and only that.

In Europe, we have to be aware of the opposite issue. The majority of our guild is based in the UK, and are working adults, so we start comparatively late at 7:30 UK time. However, we've got members from across Europe. We end our raids at 11pm UK time, which for (say) our Romanian guild member is 1AM his time.

 

[strafer]

Howdy WoW-GAF.

 

[Ultratech]

This mount would be a thousand times cooler if it didn't have the stripes.

Bu...but they make it go faster!

(I still think it's silly looking.)

 

[StayDead]

what's the thing he did?

Secondly I had a fruitful LFR for a change. LF1 gave me the tier chest and a trinket.

Thirdly, anyone know if the Cursed Hozen Helmet is consumed on use?

 

[Robin64]

Thirdly, anyone know if the Cursed Hozen Helmet is consumed on use?

It's not. I use it often because it's hilarious.

 

[StayDead]

It's not. I use it often because it's hilarious.

Phew, I'm glad about that because farming one every week would be tiring.

 

[strafer]

Say hello to my new main.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/draenor/Garaddon/simple

My Warlock of 9 years is now retired.

 

[StayDead]

Say hello to my new main.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/draenor/Garaddon/simple

My Warlock of 9 years is now retired.

woooah I thought switching to balance after 6 years of resto was bad enough, but 9 years of playing a lock and switching

what made you switch?

 

[strafer]

woooah I thought switching to balance after 6 years of resto was bad enough, but 9 years of playing a lock and switching

what made you switch?

I needed a change, and Warlocks aren't that fun anymore.

 

[Zona]

LFR is young in the grand scheme of things. We got through BC, WotLK and Most of Cata without it, and those were the highest sub numbers WoW had. People for the most part are going to be happy they have less things they "have" to do.

And in none of those expansions was I able to see any of the raid content. I enjoy LFR as it is. *Shrug*

 

[Gentleman Jack]

It's not. I use it often because it's hilarious.

It's also the only efficient way to fight Evermaw, or farm underwater encounters/spectral grog. Don't know what I'd do without it.

Why won't Armory update my profile to show my transmog?

 

[strafer]

Lead Game Designer Ion Hazzikostas sat down with Wowhead on Friday May 2nd to talk about Warlords of Draenor Raiding, Dungeons, Garrisons and More

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDFVOAkMo7A

dat accent <3

 

[Rösti]

I went to Outland due to the Children's Week quest chain there, and noticed that some of the trees there look really funky with the settings I play in. I hadn't noticed it before:

The Dark Portal also looks quite weird:

I still haven't been able to get Windows 7 running in 320x240 nor found any greater ways to further uglify WoW.

 

[Rokam]

The funniest thing about the LFR change is the "we don't want raiders to feel forced to do it." So instead of just releasing LFR way later they change the gear drop and make Normal/Heroic/Mythic not share a lockout so raiders have to raid the same amount anyways. (LFR/Flex/Norm to Norm/Heroic/Mythic)

 

[StMeph]

I went to Outland due to the Children's Week quest chain there, and noticed that some of the trees there look really funky with the settings I play in. I hadn't noticed it before:

<some screenshots>

I still haven't been able to get Windows 7 running in 320x240 nor found any greater ways to further uglify WoW.

Rosti pls.

I am amazed and repulsed at the same time.

 

[Data West]

what's the thing he did?

Secondly I had a fruitful LFR for a change. LF1 gave me the tier chest and a trinket.

Thirdly, anyone know if the Cursed Hozen Helmet is consumed on use?

I got the Galakras mount

 

[Dawg]

I went to Outland due to the Children's Week quest chain there, and noticed that some of the trees there look really funky with the settings I play in. I hadn't noticed it before:

The Dark Portal also looks quite weird:

I still haven't been able to get Windows 7 running in 320x240 nor found any greater ways to further uglify WoW.

how do you even sleep at night

 

[Anoregon]

how do you even sleep at night

Rosti is chaotic evil. A true monster.

 

[mclem]

I went to Outland due to the Children's Week quest chain there, and noticed that some of the trees there look really funky with the settings I play in. I hadn't noticed it before:

The Dark Portal also looks quite weird:

I still haven't been able to get Windows 7 running in 320x240 nor found any greater ways to further uglify WoW.

Looks like you've only got 1-bit alpha there - hence the transparencies are only 'on' or 'off' for a given pixel, there's no gradients of transparency to allow for more subtle transitions.

 

[vilmer_]

Remember this classic. My WoW career in a nutshell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov07yLusCKs

Also, Rosti, I'll buy you a computer if you want. I'm serious :lol It's like being teleported back to 2002.

 

[Data West]

When can we get some chainsaw fist weapons a la bladefist added to the game?

Edit: One nice touch with the Galakras. When it flaps its wings, smoke and ash come off it, but it doesn't when it glides.

 

[Orochinagis]

So my main guild died and I am still for a challenge armor stuff but all the groups I am meeting wants me to pay them 99k for the ride.......

So Can I request help from WoW Gaf or something?

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

*sigh* Still failing to Garrosh on 25 as of late when people don't show up to farm night. We end always seem to end up dragging a handful of alts (alts of very good people albeit, but not the best geared) along.

You really do need a 30-32 player roster to not have issues for a 25 man raid so the couple people you're gonna miss each week on average don't affect your progression. On full nights you'll have a group sitting each boss, but that shouldn't matter for long.

 

[PatDH]

So stoked with my progress today.
For the last month ive been stalled on wing 2 flex. Groups kept failing at Galakras lol
Had luck today though, cleared wing 2 & got 2 upgrades then found a 10m N group doing a fresh run & we cleared the first 2 wings of that so now I'm 8/14N. Got 3 upgrades from the normal run & am up to iLv548 now

 

[unknownstranger]

Not in a raiding guild anymore on my mage so I've been working on my Disc Priest. Flex 1 isn't that hard for me to heal but I have a ton of trouble in Flex 2 and I've only tried flex 3 once and gave up since I couldn't solo heal a side on Spoils with 12 people. Thinking of trying out my Druid one more time as Resto before I move it back to Moonkin full time again. Got the staff from Galakras today so I can move my flex staff back to my druid full time.

 

[Data West]

Just an aside, but I went to try out TERA since I don't have much to do outside of raiding on my main, and I really don't mess with alts much. I played it around launch but never stuck around. I think TERA is the perfect example of what actual funnelling zone to zone is instead of what people say WoW is. Most the zones literally lead from hallway to hallway into the next zone in a set path. It's really dull and completely eradicates exploration.

Makes me all the more excited for Warlords exploration potential.

 

[strafer]

I love LFR.

15 minute silence on Galakras. Then wipe when it time for towers.

People whine about sucking.

Then why didn't people say something? God I hate that part on LFR.

And Galakras isn't even that hard.

But I want my fucking Kadris Scepter.

 

[StayDead]

Remember this classic. My WoW career in a nutshell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov07yLusCKs

Also, Rosti, I'll buy you a computer if you want. I'm serious :lol It's like being teleported back to 2002.

Oh man that video, I forgot about that. That came out when I was still a mage <3

Getting water ready for a raid was so freaking annoying before they added tables.

I love LFR.

15 minute silence on Galakras. Then wipe when it time for towers.

People whine about sucking.

Then why didn't people say something? God I hate that part on LFR.

And Galakras isn't even that hard.

But I want my fucking Kadris Scepter.

Maybe step up and talk yourself? I've found as an ex raid leader with 3-4 years experience if you just open your mouth then oftentimes in LFR people'll follow. Think of them like scared children who need a little push to speak infront of the class.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Best mage video is: "How to play a mage"

I still refer back to it when playing my mage.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

You know that one video is easily BC-era with the amount of time allotted for Sheep.

The only time CC matters in current content at all is Garrosh trash lol.

 

[strafer]

Oh man that video, I forgot about that. That came out when I was still a mage <3

Getting water ready for a raid was so freaking annoying before they added tables.



Maybe step up and talk yourself? I've found as an ex raid leader with 3-4 years experience if you just open your mouth then oftentimes in LFR people'll follow. Think of them like scared children who need a little push to speak infront of the class.

Who said I haven't? It's the silence that kills me, they're so afraid of admitting they don't know the encounter, which bothers me.

When I enter a new dungeon or raid I always ask in raid chat; first time in here, give me a quick rundown.

If then people don't say anything it's not my problem. But I get some answers sometimes, late at night, when the kids are asleep. Thank you.

 

[StayDead]

You know that one video is easily BC-era with the amount of time allotted for Sheep.

The only time CC matters in current content at all is Garrosh trash lol.

I think they tried to take away CC as a thing that's necessary when they decided it'd be good to let all classes do everything and make it so raids didn't need certain classes for certain things.

I went to go level my mage yesterday (87 now) and I noticed something that really annoys me about the new specialisation system. So I play frost and have done since I first started playing WoW beginning of TBC with a brief stint of Arcane in WoTLK, but I realised that I've lost arcane explosion which makes AOEing as Frost a real pain in the ass. Blizzard is good sure, but losing the ability to move and do more damage quickly is incredibly annoying.

 

[strafer]

Since Valor won't be used for raid-equivalent items, there are some concerns about bad RNG. Blizzard may increase droprates a bit, but they are also working to make the bonus roll system more intelligent. A common frustration is that you want a specific item from a boss, but you get an item you already have. The bonus roll system will take items you're recently previously gotten from rolls into account.

Finally. I can't count how many times I've gotten the same damn staff every reset.

I'm looking at you Gaze of Arrogance.

 

[Skab]

I went to Outland due to the Children's Week quest chain there, and noticed that some of the trees there look really funky with the settings I play in. I hadn't noticed it before:

The Dark Portal also looks quite weird:

I still haven't been able to get Windows 7 running in 320x240 nor found any greater ways to further uglify WoW.

Do you play on a TI-86?

 

[Fjordson]

:lol I love Rosti's posts. Fascinating how far back you can scale the game.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

GUYS.

GUYSSSSSS.


I finally got my Titanium Seal of Dalaran today from fishing up all the coins in the fountain!

Only thing (difficult) left between me and my Salty title is Mr. Pinchy.

Otherwise it's just one Outland daily quest and a few random pools I have to fish.

*sogood*

 

[Fjordson]

GUYS.

GUYSSSSSS.


I finally got my Titanium Seal of Dalaran today from fishing up all the coins in the fountain!

Only thing (difficult) left between me and my Salty title is Mr. Pinchy.

Otherwise it's just one Outland daily quest and a few random pools I have to fish.

*sogood*

Grats man. Love that title.

 

[strafer]

YES! THE MOUNT IS FINALLY MINE!

 

[ch0mp]

I think they tried to take away CC as a thing that's necessary when they decided it'd be good to let all classes do everything and make it so raids didn't need certain classes for certain things.

I went to go level my mage yesterday (87 now) and I noticed something that really annoys me about the new specialisation system. So I play frost and have done since I first started playing WoW beginning of TBC with a brief stint of Arcane in WoTLK, but I realised that I've lost arcane explosion which makes AOEing as Frost a real pain in the ass. Blizzard is good sure, but losing the ability to move and do more damage quickly is incredibly annoying.

Frost still has arcane explosion.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

WOO HOO!

Got Mr. Pinchy after ~300 casts.

Magical Crawdad pet needed for achieve on the first wish!!!!

Only need the one daily quest now and the rest is cake.

 

[Fjordson]

YES! THE MOUNT IS FINALLY MINE!

Lmao. Which mount, Direhorn? (welcome back by the way)

 

[StayDead]

Frost still has arcane explosion.

Weird, I couldn't seem to find it

EDIT: Yes, it would appear I am blind, ignore my previous rant!

 

[Orochinagis]

Frost still has arcane explosion.

Thats the only spell you need in lower levels dungeons everything dies so fast before you can land a spell on them

 

[Dawg]

Say hello to my new main.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/draenor/Garaddon/simple

My Warlock of 9 years is now retired.

look at this nab, not even 10K achievement points