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The 250g and 24hr restriction on changing out followers seems real weird to be, especially how difficult it is to actually level up a single level 90 follower with a single trait. With how specific some lvl100 missions get with you almost needing a big stable of epic dudes, it's a wonder why they made it so hard to level up a fresh follower to get a trait you desperately need.
I'm short a Magic Debuffer and could use another Timed Battle while I have a huge abundance of Massive Strike/Danger Zones/Wild Aggression. Just seems counter-intuitive and also really random if you get unlucky with the follower upgrades/2nd trait.
I'm short a Magic Debuffer and could use another Timed Battle while I have a huge abundance of Massive Strike/Danger Zones/Wild Aggression. Just seems counter-intuitive and also really random if you get unlucky with the follower upgrades/2nd trait.
Considering this expansion will take another 2 years, I think they don't want you to complete everything asap.
Same thing goes for crafting really, takes forever to make 1 piece now.
Trickster
Member
As far as I can tell, bad idea. You don't really get anything worthwhile for doing them once you're max level.
I absolutely agree. I'm only at level 95, but questing through Draenor has been an absolute delight for me. I used to be part of the group that thought Blizzard was about to get ready to start wrapping things up in favor of a WoW2 because the mechanics were getting stale (and now that Vanilla questing has been revamped thanks to Cata, having to go through the old Outland and Wrath content has become such a fucking snore, theu really NEED to do something about that). But Draenor has me convinced that WoW really could last another 10 years. So many good decisions made with this expansion. You can tell Blizzard was awake this time.
Lanrutcon
Member
..ehhhh yes and no. There are problems with the expansion, they're just overshadowed by the amazing work Bliz have put in with certain areas such as the questing.
Professions have been gutted (taking a week to make an ilvl 640 item? ha), the Draenor reputation grind is several steps back from previous expansions (cause killing 21ks worth of mobs at 5 rep a kill is amazing game design), the crystal grind is paced incredibly poorly compared to other sources of gear (1 daily quest for this shit? please) and balance has been shot since they did the skill trim.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
"Things I don't like, therefor broken".
I like that professions are more of an investment. Those craftable items can be used at level 91 by the way. You can also upgrade them to 665, so it needs to be slow otherwise it'd be mandatory.
The reps are like how they were in BC, you get some from questing, and then you get some when you do your daily attack mission which is all totally optional. Going along with the entire theme of the expansion which is tickling that nostalgia bone of BC era WoW.
You also don't get or need anything from reps other than mounts and tabards and flavor items, which aren't supposed to be able to be ground out in a day. The whole point of them is prestige items to show off, like the followers or transmog gear.
Even if you don't think the crafting professions are broken the collection ones clearly are. There are a few professions right now that are just vastly superior to everything else out there while others seem poorly fleshed out or mostly forgotten.
Lanrutcon
Member
What? You're actually defending rep grinds that offer no alternatives to '5 rep a kill' grind? Nostalgia is not an excuse, my friend, and a stupid stupid justification for not having repeatable reputation quests or tabard support.
And how is 'it's optional so it's suppose to be a tedious mess' even an argument, man?
as someone who's favorite part about wow has always been leveling, these type of comments interest me.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
Well yeah but this is step one of phasing out mining/herbalism. They've been planning on doing that for a while now and either giving them to everyone or merging them with their respective crafting professions.
Your frame of mind is the same as if it were wotlk or mop. The reputations don't give pre-raid gear, so they don't have to be easily maxed ou . They're not supposed to be tedious they're supposed to be done a little at a time over a few weeks as you do the garrison campaign and apexis dailies. These are stipulations you're projecting on the game, not problems with the game itself.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Professions/economy are definitely kooky. Ore is less than worthless without a sink for it that consumes more than the mine produces, let alone actually gathering it. When a single level two mine, let alone a level 3 one produces more ore in a day than two ore-consuming professions can use, it's broken. Infinite surplus.
Herbs are almost at that level, with the saving grace being glyphs (though viciously competitive) and (the rapidly declining in value due to no faire gating) Darkmoon cards.
Leather is retaining some value (but dropping rapidly) because you actually have to go out and kill shit (unless you're getting some through the barn), and the drop-rate isn't that great. You need quite a bit to supply leatherworkers and there just aren't that many skinners in the first place (albeit there aren't that many leatherworkers either).
That's not even touching on cloth and enchanting materials, both of which are overabundant as well.
The gated design for anything of value is definitely different, but was poorly implemented. Professions being one of the last things tested with some fairly drastic changes only showing on live - it's definitely rough around the edges at best.
Many of the stable, staple ways of making gold in past expansions have been thrown out the window. It has ended up being a sort of socialization of the gold-making game (everyone can make X at exactly the same rate as everyone else) with a bit of lotto thrown in (random stats on crafted gear). And I'm don't think that leads to a healthy economy.
Again, gathering being worthless or close to it - seems absurdly silly if intended - and the rest of the economy leans heavily on that. Just giving everyone everything for free and having an arbitrary time-gate on it all does not a good profession system make.
Herbs are almost at that level, with the saving grace being glyphs (though viciously competitive) and (the rapidly declining in value due to no faire gating) Darkmoon cards.
Leather is retaining some value (but dropping rapidly) because you actually have to go out and kill shit (unless you're getting some through the barn), and the drop-rate isn't that great. You need quite a bit to supply leatherworkers and there just aren't that many skinners in the first place (albeit there aren't that many leatherworkers either).
That's not even touching on cloth and enchanting materials, both of which are overabundant as well.
The gated design for anything of value is definitely different, but was poorly implemented. Professions being one of the last things tested with some fairly drastic changes only showing on live - it's definitely rough around the edges at best.
Many of the stable, staple ways of making gold in past expansions have been thrown out the window. It has ended up being a sort of socialization of the gold-making game (everyone can make X at exactly the same rate as everyone else) with a bit of lotto thrown in (random stats on crafted gear). And I'm don't think that leads to a healthy economy.
Again, gathering being worthless or close to it - seems absurdly silly if intended - and the rest of the economy leans heavily on that. Just giving everyone everything for free and having an arbitrary time-gate on it all does not a good profession system make.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
What's the difference between dungeons and a group area of max level mobs with patrolling elites?
They're done handing things to people. Its a way to keep those items sparse and more rewarding. Its not like old rep to get your shoulder enchant or enchanting recipie. Its not mandatory, so they time-gate it
BTW when haven't raid level craftables taken a long time to make? Thunderforged ingots and celestial cloth took 24 days before you could make something. And then it was just pants and belt.
Because I think there is a difference between running dungeons at 2k-3k rep per run after getting some head start with quests, than grinding tens of thousands of reputation at 5 rep per mob. OK, you get a lot from quests with Arakkoa and Frostwolf, but for 4 of the reputations I don't even have a single point after finishing all quests.
It's a bad game design, plain and simple. If they didn't have any idea on how to meaningfully implement reputations into Warlords of Draenor then just ignore it, or implement fewer of them. Most of reps in WoD are useless and archaic, something out of an era long gone by.
To note, I know they are not mandatory yadda yadda, but it's pretty obnoxious that that is how most of factions in the expansion are designed.
Lanrutcon
Member
You're missing the point so badly I'm assuming you don't understand what the hell we're talking about . Plus your asking what the difference between running a dungeon and grinding world mobs is, which means you're being purposefully obtuse or you like...haven't played WoW or something? I dunno. Help me out here. You seem to be defending silly mechanics that've regressed badly for no apparent reason other than to bore the shit out of the playerbase.
I can only speak for Alliance but not much. Either level 92 or straight after you finish the bomb the orc camp and the drink the potion to see the future attack thing (Can't remember the quest names). Basically follow the quest chain with the Draenai lady you rescued during the intro and you'll hit it pretty quickly (The two quests you need to complete are in the Nightmarsh). I've done it on a load of alts and from starting the zone (Including building the garrison) you can do it in less than an hour if you know the path.
The quest path gives you two choices once you get your level 1 garrison established. One to follow the migrant workers. You need to take the other one and follow that instead.
I'm more annoyed that all my engineering stuff is gated behind gearspring parts. Why do I have to choose between making pets, making the new Blingtron, making goggles (which aren't worth using a crafted spot on anyways thanks to MC helms), and all the other toys?
Well, 1) you get loot from dungeons, and 2) dungeons contain varieties of trash and multiple bosses, which have different mechanics - breaking up the monotony instead of killing the same auto-attacking mob 5000 times.
This is the same guy that said the server problems of the expansion launch weren't a big deal and weren't worth fixing. Of course, Blizzard didn't seem to think so, but hey.
But they have their gross mane sticking out of the armor. Armor looks the best on Orcs and Humans.
phoenix296
Member
Resubbed on the weekend, level 99 now. Questing has been a delight. I've always been heavily invested in WoW lore so it's great to see all the orc clans during their prime. I'm actually getting a bit emotional as
while I'm questing.
The garrison is great. As an altoholic I'm definitely going to be taking advantage of this. As soon as I hit 100 on my "main" I'll start alternating between characters for rested experience. I also want to gear up enough so I can get that core hound mount.
the kill off some of my favorite characters
The garrison is great. As an altoholic I'm definitely going to be taking advantage of this. As soon as I hit 100 on my "main" I'll start alternating between characters for rested experience. I also want to gear up enough so I can get that core hound mount.
Feeling a little discouraged as a melee class after trying to get a CM group and getting turned down by all of them, despite surpassing their stated gearing requirements. They all wanted ranged classes.
I was under the impression that Blizzard was going to tone down the "fuck everyone that wants to play a melee class" mechanics this expansion, maybe I was wrong.
Or maybe I should switch to my Windwalker and be so ridiculously strong that people have to take me even though I'm not ranged.
I was under the impression that Blizzard was going to tone down the "fuck everyone that wants to play a melee class" mechanics this expansion, maybe I was wrong.
Or maybe I should switch to my Windwalker and be so ridiculously strong that people have to take me even though I'm not ranged.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
I could say the same about you. It's like you bought the game and want everything handed to you. That's not the point of the reputations, thats why they moved gear over to apexis crystals. If you don't like how long they take, why do them? Why do you care? They don't have anything you need on them, that's the point. It's like complaining that Insane in the Membrane is too hard to get.
The helms are worth it because you can upgrade them to 655 and then 665.
And that's just...the game hasn't even been out 2 weeks and you don't have everything your profession can make? Oh no.
And you're the same guy that thought simply phasing everyone out would somehow fix everything, ironically as the server going down and suffering the most for a few days there was the instanced garrison server.
The servers had 4 days of 5k+ queues and then went down to 100~ queues only during peak hours, while the low pop servers worked the whole time. Sodapoppin streamed 90-100 in the first weekend on Twisting Nether. It was and always will be the initial release time rush that is impossible to accommodate.
Nah, I said they should instance it like Tanaan, and sure enough that's what they did. I got to 100 the first weekend too, doesn't mean it wasn't a complete shitshow. I'd have hit 100 in less than 12 hours if the game actually worked.
There's also the little part where Blizzard gave out five free days of game time. Unless you're implying that they're going to give out free game time with every expansion because it's simply impossible to have functioning servers for expansion launches.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
It is when it's the single biggest jump in subscribers in the games history:
I'd say 4ish days of sketchy server stability was pretty good actually.
It's one thing to give constructive feedback, it's another to just pass off impotent nerd-rage as constructive.
Eh, melee is not some HUGE hindrance, especially not when you're not trying to get gold. People have thought that for ages and they've been wrong for ages, melee are often among the strongest classes. CMs last xpac were punishing to have like 3 melee but 1-2 was fine. It's mostly when there is some kind of whirlwind, or if there's something that won't target melee and you don't want the healer getting it over and over.
FWIW my CM daily group has had 2 melee every time and it's been fine.
If only Blizzard could have done some research and gauged consumer interest in their product. If only they had the resources of a large publisher (like, say, Activision) to help them do that. Then maybe they could have prepared a little better. If only they had the technology
like they use in the very first zone of the expansion
It's not impotent nerd-rage, it's stating fact. The launch was a disaster. Blizzard admitted it, why can't you?
What's your reasoning for the free game time if you think nothing could have been done? Do you think Activision likes giving money away to ten million people?
Lanrutcon
Member
Ok, there's the misunderstanding: you think my complaint is about time. I'm happy if going from Revered to Exalted takes 2 or 3 weeks playing every day. That's not the issue. The issue is tedium. The issue is mindlessly grinding 4200 mobs to get 21k rep with no alternatives when previous expansions had. Apparently you think the point of the reputation system is to see how much it can bore the player in exchange for some cosmetic items.
And you're still spouting that bullshit about optional being an excuse for bad design. It's a fucking video game. Everything is optional.
What don't you understand? Garrisons broke servers by virtue of the rapid creation and removal of phased instancing. Tanaan wasn't even phased at first, it was a huge bottleneck the first couple of hours of the xpac. There's a huge difference between just 'having' more instances, and garrisons completely shutting down because they were being made and destroyed (on a serverside point of view) probably hundreds of thousands of times a minute.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
https://twitter.com/CM_Lore/status/533400357754261505
To act like I'm somehow an idiot while you think there's some magic solution to get millions of people all online at once is a little silly.
I don't know what you're trying to imply there either, as if Tanaan intro was a different type of phasing than the garrisons or something? Maybe. And maybe that doesn't work with the rest of the continent because it's a secluded themepark area with Scenario stages where you don't interact with the rest of your server in any way, unlike the rest of Draenor, and it's not just some simple switch they can flip to make the rest of the world behave like that.
Get a grip.
It has nothing to do with getting things handed to you, it has to do with the fact it it is mindnumbingly boring the current way. Saying "well don't do them" is not the point, people want to EARN whatever reward, just not in this snooze fest manner.
Crafting has never been great in WoW but to only be able to craft one thing because all the items use the same mats that are gated behind cooldowns is insane. They really screwed the pooch with professions. It just seems like the cooldowns have been getting way out of control.
What I don't understand is how someone can defend a product you paid full price for not working properly, and then objecting to people having a problem with that.
I mean, seriously. If you bought a microwave from the store and it scorched your food for the first four days you used it, would you just shrug and be like "welp, can't be helped!" and just go on with your life? I fucking doubt it. Why do we need to defend corporations when they screw up?
Oh, I don't think you're an idiot at all. I think you know exactly what you're doing.
All that tweet tells me is their research was poor, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
Maybe you're right about all that stuff about phasing and instancing and it being a really complicated process to make everything work smoothly with the release-weekend rush. THEY STILL DID ALL THAT WORK TO MAKE IT THAT WAY AFTER LAUNCH. If it wasn't worth doing, why bother after launch? If it was worth doing, which apparently it was because they...you know...did it, it should have been done before they released the fucking expansion.
This isn't some indie company coding this game on their free time in someone's garage. Letting gigantic companies slide for things like this is why you see games like the new Halo collection and the new Assassin's Creed get released in obviously unfinished states. Nah, they need to get called out for shit like this. They're raking in revenue the likes of which they haven't seen in years, we're not gonna hurt their feelings. Why not let them know they can do better?
Woo, productive night. Finished my first apexis crystal daily, that was surprisingly easy. Also got the transmog helm drop in UBRS, for the Dwarven Bunker transmog set, and bought that. Plate one looks dope!
I also eyed the three raid groups in group finder camping Poundfist. Almost queued, but I don't need that craziness. Yet.
I also eyed the three raid groups in group finder camping Poundfist. Almost queued, but I don't need that craziness. Yet.
Um. I played on launch day, and the next day. It had queues and shit, and that sucks, but the game worked. It had 3 rough days and they credited us all 5, so...no, I don't have a problem with it? They made the perfect amends already.
CambriaRising
Member
Same here. It sucks that people were stuck in queues, but it was because other people were logged on and playing. The 5 day credit more than makes up for it, not sure why anyone is still mad.
Lucky you, it didn't work for me. The lag was so bad nothing would spawn at all for 15+ minutes at a time, and when you actually saw a mob on your screen you couldn't actually do anything to it, whether that was attacking it or any other form of interacting with it. Never mind trying to do quests that were anything more complicated than kill X mobs. You couldn't do shit on Stormreaver until they started implementing their hotfixes. And I was lucky, I didn't even have to deal with the queues because I was able to stay logged in, so it could have been even worse.
Why does them crediting us for the time their product didn't work make it okay? That's the minimum they should have done. I'm literally paying them for every hour of the week outside of scheduled server maintenance, they had better be reimbursing me for that time. If they knew it was going to be this absolute shitshow and there was truly nothing they could have done, they should have included the free game time with the expansion and stated it up front - "Our servers are going to crap out on you until we fix them, so we're giving you a few free days to make up for it".
Nope, send followers on missions, get salvage boxes and open them.