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World of Warcraft |OT6| This wolf still has teeth

TheYanger

Member
wow, to clear something up, LFR opens a week later because if the real raiders haven't done the fights yet to go in and hold LFR's hand, LFR ends up being a massive clusterfuck (as opposed to a medium sized clusterfuck which it still ends up being). Not JUST because opening it before real raids makes real raid requirements silly.

The rate at which information disseminates so that LFR can actually be successful basically requires that at least some of the people queueing know what they're doing, and those people are the ones that have actually done the content. When they didn't used to do it like this LFR opening day was the most painful shit in the world. MC has nothing on some of the other bosses that have stomped that setting.
 

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
I know I should be saving my resources but I MUST send my guys on quests damn it!

they need to lvl :(
 

ampere

Member
No luck on the 40 man raid pet yet but I have some more time for it at least. It is a bit agonizing being in there for hours for nothing but if I keep the 3DS open it's not so bad I guess.

I don't think I have it in me to run LFR MC a second time or more. I'll probably just give up on the enchant transmog and buy the pet on the AH.
 
I agree with that, and actually found normal raiding more fun than LFR in MoP, but I still think it's a risky move from Blizz. Will all those people in LFR be willing to migrate to new difficulties? Or will they simply stop raiding / drop the game entirely?

I'm kinda confused as to why people are upset over this kind of stuff.

I despise LFR, it's boring when it goes smoothly and frustrating when it doesn't, it never feels like actual raiding to me, more like a theme park ride or something. On the off chance an encounter actually is difficult, it's like pulling teeth and feels like you just have to wait for determination to stack up in order to down the hard bosses.

So to me, if your a person with no other way to raid, you're probably doing LFR just to see content. And that's what you'll get. The gear is enough to get you through the content and no more.

I dunno, maybe I'm elitist or something, but as a heroic (now Mythic) raider, I put in a fuckload more effort than people coasting through LFR. LFR to me is so mindless and unfun that it barely feels like raiding to me. There's no problem solving, no sense of progression, no sense of building a team. These are the things that make raiding good and LFR throws all of it out the window for the sake of accessibility.

I'm fine with it being there as an option, but it should absolutely be marginalized in terms of rewards. Again, call me elitist or egotistic, but if someone in LFR can look the same as me, have access to the same mounts as me, the same set bonuses and weapons, with the only thing separating their character from mine being an iLvL then why the hell would I be doing what I'm doing?

I do it because I like the challenge and the camaraderie, and the competitiveness. But I also think I should be set apart from others who haven't put in the effort I have. So I'm glad that Blizz is doing what they're doing.

Not to mention the fact that despite these feelings, I still had to suffer through LFR at the beginning of tiers in order to patch up weakspots in my gear for progression. That sucks. Imagine if your someone who plays the hardest difficulty in every game cause you like the challenge, but you have to coast through Easy multiple times first. That's what it felt like and it was horrible.

I'm sure I seem egotistical to the people who feel they have no other option and still want the mounts and the cool looking sets, ect. Ultimately I feel I should be set apart for my effort and that's what Blizzard seems to want, too.
 

Mupod

Member
I still have no idea if I'm going to raid as cat or bear. I always play tanks in MMOs but my guild is FULL of warriors for some reason. It's funny, I know a lot of dedicated heal/dps players who find tanking stressful but I'm the opposite. When I'm playing as cat I tend to focus on my bars and timers which hurts my situational awareness. On a tank I don't generally need to worry about anything other than my cooldowns so I can focus on the fight going on around me. I also don't have people breathing down my neck about dps meters so as long as I don't do something catastrophically terrible then it's all good. And if I want to be lazy in a dungeon and just mash buttons nobody will notice or care, as long as I don't die. And if I do die then it's the healer's fault.

Anyways regarding the guild I came back to, it's surreal looking at the roster. It's almost ALL vanilla players, including some guys who quit before BC. It's just been this snowball effect of people returning because everyone else was returning, myself included. I didn't think something like this would happen before, I dunno, WoW 2. But I guess making an expansion focused heavily on bringing back old players would have that effect.
 

TheYanger

Member
The other thing with LFR - is this suddenly surprising? LFR hasn't opened the same week as normal raids since Dragon Soul's clusterfuck. It's been fine every time.
 

Fjordson

Member
I'm kinda confused as to why people are upset over this kind of stuff.

I despise LFR, it's boring when it goes smoothly and frustrating when it doesn't, it never feels like actual raiding to me, more like a theme park ride or something. On the off chance an encounter actually is difficult, it's like pulling teeth and feels like you just have to wait for determination to stack up in order to down the hard bosses.

So to me, if your a person with no other way to raid, you're probably doing LFR just to see content. And that's what you'll get. The gear is enough to get you through the content and no more.

I dunno, maybe I'm elitist or something, but as a heroic (now Mythic) raider, I put in a fuckload more effort than people coasting through LFR. LFR to me is so mindless and unfun that it barely feels like raiding to me. There's no problem solving, no sense of progression, no sense of building a team. These are the things that make raiding good and LFR throws all of it out the window for the sake of accessibility.

I'm fine with it being there as an option, but it should absolutely be marginalized in terms of rewards. Again, call me elitist or egotistic, but if someone in LFR can look the same as me, have access to the same mounts as me, the same set bonuses and weapons, with the only thing separating their character from mine being an iLvL then why the hell would I be doing what I'm doing?

I do it because I like the challenge and the camaraderie, and the competitiveness. But I also think I should be set apart from others who haven't put in the effort I have. So I'm glad that Blizz is doing what they're doing.

Not to mention the fact that despite these feelings, I still had to suffer through LFR at the beginning of tiers in order to patch up weakspots in my gear for progression. That sucks. Imagine if your someone who plays the hardest difficulty in every game cause you like the challenge, but you have to coast through Easy multiple times first. That's what it felt like and it was horrible.

I'm sure I seem egotistical to the people who feel they have no other option and still want the mounts and the cool looking sets, ect. Ultimately I feel I should be set apart for my effort and that's what Blizzard seems to want, too.
I hear you and I agree with your overall sentiment. But to the bolded, when has this ever not been the case? LFR gear has never come close to normal gear, let alone mythic (or the old heroic). People who do LFR also miss out on things like mounts and titles.

To be clear, I'm not personally upset. I don't really use LFR. Just think what's being discussed here has never actually been an issue and I'll be interested to see how people react over the course of WoD.
 
Regarding LFR, I miss the removal of the tier gear as tier gear is what I collect in the game (for xmog purposes). I'd be fine with the LFR tier gear having no set bonus or something like that. So, I'm gearing up my followers like mad so that I can send them to Normal raiding and hopefully bring back tier gear (I'll raid LFR so that the next tier up will be Normal). If I can't get tier gear via followers I'll likely unsub until each major content patch, play a month and see the content, and unsub again. I'll then just get the WoD tier sets an expansion or two later when Normal is soloable.
 
I hear you and I agree with your overall sentiment. But to the bolded, when has this ever not been the case? LFR gear has never come close to normal gear, let alone mythic (or the old heroic). People who do LFR also miss out on things like mounts and titles.

To be clear, I'm not personally upset. I don't really use LFR. Just think what's being discussed here has never actually been an issue and I'll be interested to see how people react over the course of WoD.

You're right. The only thing form the old paradigm that I feel was really harmful to my enjoyment of the game was having to run LFR in cases where the gear there outshined stuff from the previous tier, which was pretty rare (mostly trinkets and some set bonuses) but still horrible.

As far as everything else, I guess I'm mostly responding to the sentiment (one not expressed here that strongly, but certainly in other places) that LFR should get the same cosmetic fluff as rewards, which I disagree with.

Another thing I would say on this topic is if you are a person who feels LFR is you're only option, I'd really encourage you to try Openraid or similar services to try and find a semi-regular casual Normal group. Flex difficulties have never been particularly difficult if everyone is paying attention, and now more than ever it's easy to find people to run semi-organized groups with.

Who knows what kind of following services like OR will have once the raids get rolling but I hope they're popular since I will want to use them to play alts which I can't fit into normal scheduled guild runs.
 

Fjordson

Member
You're right. The only thing form the old paradigm that I feel was really harmful to my enjoyment of the game was having to run LFR in cases where the gear there outshined stuff from the previous tier, which was pretty rare (mostly trinkets and some set bonuses) but still horrible.

As far as everything else, I guess I'm mostly responding to the sentiment (one not expressed here that strongly, but certainly in other places) that LFR should get the same cosmetic fluff as rewards, which I disagree with.

Another thing I would say on this topic is if you are a person who feels LFR is you're only option, I'd really encourage you to try Openraid or similar services to try and find a semi-regular casual Normal group. Flex difficulties have never been particularly difficult if everyone is paying attention, and now more than ever it's easy to find people to run semi-organized groups with.

Who knows what kind of following services like OR will have once the raids get rolling but I hope they're popular since I will want to use them to play alts which I can't fit into normal scheduled guild runs.
I feel ya. Would be great to see even more people hop into the higher raid difficulties.
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
LFR isn't raiding so you don't get raid gear. Visual gear homogenization is already bad enough. Vastly different items should have their own unique look.
 

Jarnet87

Member
Think I am giving up on my Monk, can't stand playing any spec of the class. Switched to a DK and it was instantly more enjoyable. Only thing I regret is how lucky I was with garrison followers. I'll probably just use him as a way to farm gold.
 

Boogdud

Member
Nah, I don't care about the timing or even the ilvl of the gear, it's always been like that and it's just fine. I just wish they didn't change the LFR gear to look like garbage quest gear rather than a recolor (and slight visual downgrade) of the current tier set. Not that any of them look worth a damn.


I can't even imagine LFR queues going by how long Heroic/Regular queues are this expansion.

Yeah, wth is up with that? We're 2-3 weeks into the expansion and queues for a heroic are like 37-45 minutes?? That's on random ffs. Every time I see that damn average time keep creeping up and up I see Mr. Burns with his fingertips in a pyramid maniacally laughing, while yelling "you JUST bought a 2 month pre-paid card and activated it! MUAH HA HA HA!"
 

mileS

Member
I can't even imagine LFR queues going by how long Heroic/Regular queues are this expansion.

Usually end up being the exact same as heroic/reg dungeon ques. With that said, you have the extra chance at waiting say, 40 min, and then being thrown in for the last boss only (when you might have wanted to clear the whole thing or were mostly looking forward to the first boss) A pain but it's how it goes.
 

Interfectum

Member
I can't even imagine LFR queues going by how long Heroic/Regular queues are this expansion.

Everyone is scared to play a tank or healer in these dungeons because there are a crazy amount of assholes in DF right now. I'm guessing it's due to people wanting to gear up super quick for raids so they have zero tolerance for mistakes. But I've seen no less than 5 tanks/healers quit the group due to continued, prolonged verbal abuse for fairly small mistakes. I've also been booted eventhough I knew most the fights and had highest DPS but my gnome rocket boots killed me (random backfire) on our way to the next boss.

I've been doing dungeon finder for pretty much it's entire existence in WoW and I've never seen so many assholes in there before.

I was going to attempt tanking this expansion and have practiced in normal dungeons but there's no way I'm stepping foot in heroics right now as a tank.
 
I'm actually more interested in how world bosses will work this expansion.

Sha of Anger was okay but his mechanics were kind of mindless.
Galleon was an improvement but they really screwed up the spawn timer and the camping was out of control.
Nalak was fine. Wish he was somewhere else since it was too easy to grief people at the ToT zoneline.
I liked Ordos. I'm torn on how much fun it was to have unflagged or same-faction jerkwads train cows onto the fight. It felt like a nice variation to deal with deadly 'adds' once the fight was trivialized but after a while it felt like a huge waste of time when the pvp heroes ruined an otherwise fine attempt.

Given the Poundfist situation my faith that they'll have decent spawn timers on world bosses isn't high. They both look to have Galleon mechanics between the adds and the huge cleave in front of them.
 

cdyhybrid

Member
Everyone is scared to play a tank or healer in these dungeons because there are a crazy amount of assholes in DF right now. I'm guessing it's due to people wanting to gear up super quick for raids so they have zero tolerance for mistakes. But I've seen no less than 5 tanks/healers quit the group due to continued, prolonged verbal abuse for fairly small mistakes. I've also been booted eventhough I knew most the fights and had highest DPS but my gnome rocket boots killed me (random backfire) on our way to the next boss.

I've been doing dungeon finder for pretty much it's entire existence in WoW and I've never seen so many assholes in there before.

I was going to attempt tanking this expansion and have practiced in normal dungeons but there's no way I'm stepping foot in heroics right now as a tank.

Pretty much. And then these same DPS players bitch about long queues :lol

I stopped caring and dared them to kick me, I can get another group instantly.
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Everyone is scared to play a tank or healer in these dungeons because there are a crazy amount of assholes in DF right now. I'm guessing it's due to people wanting to gear up super quick for raids so they have zero tolerance for mistakes. But I've seen no less than 5 tanks/healers quit the group due to continued, prolonged verbal abuse for fairly small mistakes. I've also been booted eventhough I knew most the fights and had highest DPS but my gnome rocket boots killed me (random backfire) on our way to the next boss.

I've been doing dungeon finder for pretty much it's entire existence in WoW and I've never seen so many assholes in there before.

I was going to attempt tanking this expansion and have practiced in normal dungeons but there's no way I'm stepping foot in heroics right now as a tank.

But that's personal experience. All of my random dungeons have been great, some of the the best experiences I've had in WoW LFGs. Certainly better than MoP and its impatience. Everyone is new and will listen to advice as long as it's asked for. I've guided people through Ner'zhul and the fights leading up to it without a problem which would have NEVER happened in Cata or MoP.
 

Draxal

Member
wow, to clear something up, LFR opens a week later because if the real raiders haven't done the fights yet to go in and hold LFR's hand, LFR ends up being a massive clusterfuck (as opposed to a medium sized clusterfuck which it still ends up being). Not JUST because opening it before real raids makes real raid requirements silly.

The rate at which information disseminates so that LFR can actually be successful basically requires that at least some of the people queueing know what they're doing, and those people are the ones that have actually done the content. When they didn't used to do it like this LFR opening day was the most painful shit in the world. MC has nothing on some of the other bosses that have stomped that setting.

There's no need for real raiders to do lfr to hold people's hand now. The player pool in SoO just dropped from ToT as all the marginal/good raiders just did flex and higher.
 

Interfectum

Member
But that's personal experience. All of my random dungeons have been great, some of the the best experiences I've had in WoW LFGs. Certainly better than MoP and its impatience. Everyone is new and will listen to advice as long as it's asked for. I've guided people through Ner'zhul and the fights leading up to it without a problem which would have NEVER happened in Cata or MoP.

Maybe I've just been unlucky. Another problem I've noticed is people dropping out of heroics half way through after completing their Inn quest. It's not so bad if a DPS does it but when a tank drops pretty much everyone else does too. Needless to say I know the first half of some of these dungeons a lot better than the last half. :/
 

TheYanger

Member
There's no need for real raiders to do lfr to hold people's hand now. The player pool in SoO just dropped from ToT as all the marginal/good raiders just did flex and higher.

No, LFR opening week was awful in every single zone. It wasn't just siege.

Remember durumu? Or Tsulong? Or Garalon? It's anything that even has a mechanic. Too many flat out awful players there, you have to manage to beat the strat into like 50% of them to win when it's still an unknown quantity. When only the beta players know the strats that problem is tenfold. ONE week of real people doing the zone gives them plenty of knowledge to go into LFR and really carry it, which is what LFR has always been - the people who know what they're doing literally picking everyone else up and carrying them to the finish.

I can't even imagine LFR queues going by how long Heroic/Regular queues are this expansion.

LFR is actually better than dungeons though, since it's vastly more dps per healer and especially per tank.
 
Think I am giving up on my Monk, can't stand playing any spec of the class. Switched to a DK and it was instantly more enjoyable. Only thing I regret is how lucky I was with garrison followers. I'll probably just use him as a way to farm gold.

I love Monk, but it's an acquired taste. The tanking method is different, and the Healer isn't as great as others.

But especially on WW when you hit 100 and try to master Chi Explosion. It's probably the hardest thing to get the hang of in that class.

No, LFR opening week was awful in every single zone. It wasn't just siege.

Remember durumu? Or Tsulong? Or Garalon? It's anything that even has a mechanic. Too many flat out awful players there, you have to manage to beat the strat into like 50% of them to win when it's still an unknown quantity. When only the beta players know the strats that problem is tenfold. ONE week of real people doing the zone gives them plenty of knowledge to go into LFR and really carry it, which is what LFR has always been - the people who know what they're doing literally picking everyone else up and carrying them to the finish.

This is why I haven't been too pressed to do MC and didn't do the dungeons opening week. I'd much rather be in a group that knows the fights and can give good direction. I have no problem with it opening later. I do kinda wish you could get some of the perks though. Those last 2 weeks of Garrosh Heirloom customs were dreadful.
 

Wunder

Member
Picked up the War Crimes book on my Kindle due to doing that leg of the Legendary questline and wondering "Garrosh killed
Kairoz, the Bronze we meet on Timeless Isle
with his hands bound how?" and figuring I'd read it. What the hell, CC's are all paid off and Black Friday deals were meh (did just get Inquisition and Shadows of Mordor, though).

Damn one click did me in, right after I did I saw it was written by Christie Golden.

I despise that author's writing and anyone who supports the person loses all credibility in my eyes.

Hyperbole, slight, but still.

Funnily enough that part actually isn't even in War Crimes
 

Draxal

Member
No, LFR opening week was awful in every single zone. It wasn't just siege.

Remember durumu? Or Tsulong? Or Garalon? It's anything that even has a mechanic. Too many flat out awful players there, you have to manage to beat the strat into like 50% of them to win when it's still an unknown quantity. When only the beta players know the strats that problem is tenfold. ONE week of real people doing the zone gives them plenty of knowledge to go into LFR and really carry it, which is what LFR has always been - the people who know what they're doing literally picking everyone else up and carrying them to the finish.



LFR is actually better than dungeons though, since it's vastly more dps per healer and especially per tank.

Anecdotally, Dururumu was pretty bad, but you could clear it with 5-8 players alive(and it usually happened) after a couple of wipes. Never had those issues with Tsulong or Garalon, as we would only wipe up to 1-3 times (but this was about a month or so after lfr opened up). Nazgrim and Dark Shamans lfr caused me to stop playing for six months as they would be up six to ten wipes each time back to back. And I just didn't have a time schedule to commit anything else. And they weren't a step up in difficulty over Dururumu, the players just were not there anymore.

I'm fine with lfr being delayed , but I really don't see any reason for normal geared and players and up to slum it up in LFR.
 

Bizazedo

Member
Think I am giving up on my Monk, can't stand playing any spec of the class. Switched to a DK and it was instantly more enjoyable. Only thing I regret is how lucky I was with garrison followers. I'll probably just use him as a way to farm gold.

Yeah, I'm wondering how the gold inflation will be this go-round. AH seems nerfed pretty hard, but there are a lot of passive gold revenue streams it seems.

As an aside, I don't think I like the new Arms warrior rotation. Whirlwinding that much is....irritating.

Funnily enough that part actually isn't even in War Crimes
....damnit. So it's just going to suck in general, eh?
 

Wunder

Member
Yeah, I'm wondering how the gold inflation will be this go-round. AH seems nerfed pretty hard, but there are a lot of passive gold revenue streams it seems.

As an aside, I don't think I like the new Arms warrior rotation. Whirlwinding that much is....irritating.


....damnit. So it's just going to suck in general, eh?

yeah it wasnt great
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
all these fucking orc portraits spam in /2 right now... OIFhaoifhaofhaoihf HOTFIX NOW PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!
Game is out 10 years and we are only up to OT6?

What gives?


On a side note, have not had this much fun since Wrath

game is clearly dead, that's why
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Now it's the handicapped sign, lol chat.

And now it's green massive squares

........

it's twitch chat all over again
 

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
My guild is pretty unprepared for tomorrow. It's gonna be a mess.

Mine's not! My old core of raid buddies hooked up with some other dudes my brother was raiding Siege with, and we are looking to be in a pretty good spot to dive into Highmaul.
 

Ocho

Member
Can someone explain to my why no LFR is that bad? Aren't custom groups kind of the same? What is the disadvantage of joining one over LFR?
 
Mine's not! My old core of raid buddies hooked up with some other dudes my brother was raiding Siege with, and we are looking to be in a pretty good spot to dive into Highmaul.

I'm raiding with an entirely new set of people, which is different for me. The guild is newly formed and while all of us are HC veterans most of us have never played together, except for a few small groups. Everyone is coming to the table with a sense of doing their best to adjust to a new team which is great. People are outgoing, direct, prepared to fail, and striving to impress. The recipe for success when it comes to raiding in my experience.

It's great. I'm really looking forward to tomorrow.

Edit: While I'm here, anybody know a good chat replacement? Never used one before but with the newfound twitch-chat style spam I'm in need of more tools to separate chat feeds.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I can't wait until the first time someone asks if its okay if they hearth to their Garrison during a break in a raid to manage their follower missions.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Screenshot? I don't understand what you mean

CM right now but I'll screenshot when we're done here... it's making /2 completely unreadable
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
665 BOE drop while questing in Nagrand
tumblr_n4mzo5kO7P1rk8tvco2_r1_250.gif
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Same thing happens to me for Trap Launcher.

It turns off if I switch specs and it annoys the hell out of me.



Supposedly, the idea is to get an actual weapon/armor set (i.e. a Token that will set Item Level to 615, 630, 645), then start using the Enhancements to get more out of them.

Something to keep in mind is that once you get ~2-3 followers to a selected "tier" (like 615, 630, etc.), you'll start getting more missions from that tier.

So there's not much point in boosting up just 1-2 followers if the rest of them can't complete the higher-level missions.
You need 2 people at the threshold to get a mission of that level. Followers with ilvl that is a few points below the ilvl threshold only contribute a reduced mission completion percentage. Followers that are red contribute nothing, including counter-talents.
 
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