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People on the official forums saying it's P2W literally do not know what they're talking about. Anyone that wants to spend real life money on wow ALREADY DOES SO. This is a legitimate way for people to do it without any risk involved, and it lets players who want to play but either can't afford or don't want to pay monthly fees ALSO play. The game is better when more people play so encouraging that healthy economy is only for the better (And yes, I already have paid for shitloads of transfers/race changes/sub fees/etc with gold, just like people with more money than time have paid cash for gear and runs from people I may or may not know, etc). This doesn't suddenly make gear out of thing air, it doesn't circuimvent the economy or anything, if there were no black market for gold or cash then yes it would be introducing P2W, but since that already exists (and economics 101: black markets WILL ALWAYS exist) this is how you make that option less appealing while also allowing those who follow the rules to benefit as much as those that break them.
Mitch
Banned
Shadow Priest represent.Fire Nova is pretty beast.
He did alright on their Mythic Butcher kill too:
The bolded, as well as everything else said, is my exact thought process. The lack of logic, basic economics, and common sense is staggering on many of the official forums posts.
Mitch
Banned
The official WoW forum is an echo chamber full of morons, serial whiners and tryhard trolls.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Without rambling on:
Case Study - EVE Online.
Works pretty much perfectly. With the scope of things (read: gear) you can actually buy with gold in WoW being more limited than in EVE, the system in WoW would probably be less volatile.
And they've experimented with this before, just the one way though, with the Guardian Cub pet.
Case Study - EVE Online.
Works pretty much perfectly. With the scope of things (read: gear) you can actually buy with gold in WoW being more limited than in EVE, the system in WoW would probably be less volatile.
And they've experimented with this before, just the one way though, with the Guardian Cub pet.
I don't really see a problem with a legitimate way to indirectly buy gold. I can only see it affecting the race for world firsts, but:
1) the players who race for first are an extremely small minority of the playerbase
2) said players already spend inordinate amounts of time and preparation for the race (see running multiple raid groups and funneling all gear into a small subset of players)
3) they probably have all the gold they could want anyway due to paid mythic runs, etc.
Furthermore, it gives hardcore players that make a lot of gold incentive to stay subscribed for 'free' by having someone else pay their sub for them AND at the same time gives the players who may not have the time for farm for the gold they want another option that will keep them happier in the game. It's a win win.
1) the players who race for first are an extremely small minority of the playerbase
2) said players already spend inordinate amounts of time and preparation for the race (see running multiple raid groups and funneling all gear into a small subset of players)
3) they probably have all the gold they could want anyway due to paid mythic runs, etc.
Furthermore, it gives hardcore players that make a lot of gold incentive to stay subscribed for 'free' by having someone else pay their sub for them AND at the same time gives the players who may not have the time for farm for the gold they want another option that will keep them happier in the game. It's a win win.
King Gilga
Member
No words on the new transmog system?
My bags/bank/void storage are literally full because of that.
My bags/bank/void storage are literally full because of that.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
You'd be pretty silly to think some dudes in paragon or method arent gold capped already anyway. They invite groupies to their guild to supply them with raid mats, I wouldn't be surprised if 'fans' gave them gold anyway, besides the fact they play all the time and get gold from that too.
Mitch
Banned
Not sure I see any negative aspects to this system being implemented.
Posters on the forum are complaining about people botting, or someone mistakenly putting up tokens on the AH for the wrong amount.
New system?
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Mentioned it earlier, but if anything, it allows Blizzard to be even more aggressive on bots since they'd be more directly affecting their bottom line.
And people heavily underprice shit all the time anyway (below vendor price, frequently enough!). Short of implementing buy orders, there's no way to "guarantee" they'd be "safe". Putting a game time token up for 100g wouldn't really be any different from putting a BoE epic up for that cheap.
Supposedly they're shooting for a Diablo-style transmog system, where you only need to have possessed the item at some point to be able to transmog to it, instead of having to have it currently in your bags/bank/void storage.
Mitch
Banned
It's really a non issue. People will underprice, and people will make mistakes when putting up auctions. Every auction sold is 100% final. People complaining about that are just reaching.
Pfthahaha. That's rich. Had no idea it was like that.
Oh right! I remember this being mentioned. I think that's been put in the "Soon" pile.
Very impressive man - I'm just getting into it really. Lots of fun.
Gentleman Jack
Member
reminds me of those awful gamergut MSPaint conspiracy theory images.
Mitch
Banned
Not entirely sure if you will receive credit for Meta Achievements if you complete certain steps on different factions.
"LOOK AT ALL THESE SCREENSHOTS JUMBLED AROUND WITH RED ARROWS! PROOF."
Enhancement community hasn't been the same since Cata ended. Best bet is to find some top tier Enhancement Shaman and ask them. Or ask me. I'm like middle tier.
eudaemonic
Member
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
https://twitter.com/Celestalon/status/545681736567234562
Welp. That's dumb. He clearly doesn't get it. (on augment runes, which stack with food/flask, but are removed upon death, working in even mythic raids).
Welp. That's dumb. He clearly doesn't get it. (on augment runes, which stack with food/flask, but are removed upon death, working in even mythic raids).
Enhance gets harder with more gear. I wish you luck.
eudaemonic
Member
I cannot unhear this anytime anyone complains about Celestalon.
Chie Satonaka
Member
I got an epic from my silver invasion last night. 645 helm.
That was a nice surprise. 641 now.
That was a nice surprise. 641 now.
CambriaRising
Member
I don't understand the argument against them. It's just a buff.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
People feel like any minuscule bonus is required 100% in raids.
told myself i'd sleep early last night. decided to check out wowprogress for the first time and got lost in looking at sims for this and that, and eventually started spending a large amt of time looking at guild recruitments for my gf and i.
i ideally planned on zzz'ing by 12:30am, but went on till 3am on a work night. in other words, maaaaaan im exhausted
this damn game! even when im not on, im on
i ideally planned on zzz'ing by 12:30am, but went on till 3am on a work night. in other words, maaaaaan im exhausted
this damn game! even when im not on, im on
Haven't made my decision yet, just trying to find more information about their priority system so I can get a feel for their gameplay.
BlitzEngineer
Member
Those of us that raided at a relatively high level in Vanilla and BC are scared shitless of raid preparation even inching back in that direction.
Miniscule buffs that take any effort to obtain are bad design, unfun, and take the focus off of execution and onto dumbass preparation.
Especially when Blizzard is implementing fights like Mythic Butcher which is 90% numbers and 10% RNG at this gear level. When you see multiple 300k wipes on a Mythic boss in an hour or two, suddenly your entire raid having 50 more primary stat doesn't seem like frivolous min-maxing, it's required. And that sucks.
I don't think it's really a big deal. My guild doesn't require Augments for spots even on Butcher. We're not getting world firsts so we're not going to kill ourselves jumping through dumbass hoops that Blizzard allows for seemingly no reason. We'd rather just fall down in rankings than raid in that paradigm. And we have.
I just hope this is the only thing they allow, because pretty much any more is going to make hardcore raiding seriously unfun.
That's stupid. It's 50 in 1 stat, that's hardly required and would only be a tiny tiny tiny bump for any spec. Besides tanks and healers are swimming in them due to the bonuses we get for doing heroics, I get like one in each bonus bag along with my extra gold.
BlitzEngineer
Member
You guys aren't raiding Mythic Butcher. I'm not trying to be a dickhead elitist here. Trust me bang your head against this boss for 12 hours you're going to be singing a different tune about 50 primary stat not being required.
Trickster
Member
It's a big deal on a fight like mythic Butcher, that tiny tiny tiny bump is what a lot of guilds need to be able to meet the dps requirement on the fight
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
By your logic, the BMAH is required. You've put this arbitrary requirement on the rune just because it's easier to get. The difference between raid prep back in the day and now is all that work was 'designed' into the fights. Stuff like that isn't taken into account for the raid now though, it's just a nice perk to doing the heroics when the queues are an hour for DPS.
It's not required, it's not needed, DPS can't even get them and main stats for tank isn't as big a deal as like Bonus Armor or secondary stuff afaik.
Or you could just gear up a tiny bit more before doing it. If you aren't racing for the world's first then there's no point in rushing, banging your head against a wall for 20 hours, and I don't see why everyone else should have to give up a small buff just for the tiny percentage of people that are going for world's firsts.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
And then people want them to not be usable in the raid but the fights not nerfed to account for it? Think about it for a second. That means it's not mandatory to do the fight, it's mandatory to cheese the fight by doing it earlier than normal gear progression.
Farm heroics until every piece of gear has a gem slot and stick a +50 gem into every offset piece, that's "required" as much as that rune is.
BlitzEngineer
Member
Yeah and you know what? The BMAH is a tremendous oversight and I think it's one of the absolute worst things that Blizzard has implemented for current raiding gear to be available during progression from a gold sink. If you don't see what is wrong with that then we aren't going to be able to reach a consensus here. I thank god that pretty much nobody even in the top 5 US abuses it fully.
You say DPS can't get it which is wrong. They come from LFR and are also not BoP. DPS just have to bum them off the tanks or find people to sell them.
And again, you're definition of what is or isn't required is completely relative. Guilds raiding Mythic Butcher last week were doing so in gear that meant the margin of success or failure on an attempt where you got good RNG was often below 1 million or even below 500k. When that's the difference between killing a boss in the top 10 or in the top 50, it's required, for many guilds at that level.
There's a ton you can do to min-max in this game. Blizzard adding just one more thing, however small, makes the game worse at a high level and doesn't do shit for anybody else in terms of making the game better. It's literally such a small buff that only people at a high level would consider it a big deal and those are the exact people that don't want this shit in the game.
Gentleman Jack
Member
You don't understand man, bragging rights about video games are at stake here. Bragging rights.
CambriaRising
Member
Exactly. Still not seeing how "makes it easier" equals "required".
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
And the majority don't give a shit, but its a nice little fun incentive to do heroics, which is the entire point of it.
Why would they be dumb enough to design the game around the smallest portion of players? lol
They're a buff consumable that are single use and you have to SLOWLY farm. This is vanilla wow level shit if it starts deciding world first races.
They're not designing the game around mythic raiders? and if you don't think high end raiding is 'important' to wow despite the low number of active participants you're nuts. By that logic not making them work in high end mythic raids makes the most sense, since that's the only place people need to min max for 50 of a primary stat (which is a LOT fwiw).
Everyone saying it's not required, you might as well be saying gems aren't required, enchants aren't required, hell GEAR isn't required.
These are STRONGER than gems and enchants.
If this level of the game is beyond you, why do you care that people don't want it affecting that in the first place? Mythic raids are the only thing they shouldn't have any place in alongside competetive pvp and CMs.
Trickster
Member
You say there's no point in rushing if you aren't in the world first race. But there's also no point in not taking a free extra 50 main stat as it just makes it easier for you to kill any given boss.
The point is, the rune is dumb and doesn't have a good reason for being in the game. The buff it gives is small enough that most guilds will completely ignore it. But for the really hardcore guilds, it's gonna become an annoying extra thing to have to spend time/gold getting for at least some fights. So really, what good is it?
BlitzEngineer
Member
A fun incentive to do heroics????
Who the fuck is doing heroics for these? Oh wait I AM. Why? Because I want to hand out some to Agility users who literally can't get them any other way than doing LFR once a week so we can move on from a piece of shit numbers check and continue to play the game in the way we enjoy, which is trying to be as high in the rankings as possible while sticking to a reasonable schedule.
Do they make the game more fun for you? I doubt it. they make it worse for me. So why are they good design? They only cause problems, albeit ones you don't give a shit about. They add nothing and detract fun. They are shitty. I really do not care how important progression is to you, they just make the game worse for other people.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
What was that top 10 guild that got caught using rotation bot? Lol, Min/Maxing for sure.
Yeah, duh. They get chumps who care about 50 stats into tanking heroics for me.
Yeah, duh. They get chumps who care about 50 stats into tanking heroics for me.