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World of Warcraft |OT6| This wolf still has teeth

Z

ZenaxPure

Member
Data West said:
I see LFR Iron Maidens, and I look at LFR Bladefist and I sit there, and I think to myself.

'Were these two fights tuned by the same teams?'
Click to expand...

Maidens actually just got a ridiculous nerf according to the hotfixes.

That said I've always just assumed the "tuning" for LFR was basically lowering the numbers of the normal versions of fights by random amounts followed by shrugging their shoulders and moving onto something else.
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
They really need a minor glyph for priest's shadowy apparitions to appear as Sha instead. Would fit well with the mindbender one.

I'd also like Warriors to get Hanz & Franz's body slam ability.
 
D

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Nokterian said:
So yeah ehm Fury Warrior is fun! Like a whirlwind killing everything in the way.
Click to expand...
I really like the spec, but going dry off multiple Bloodthirsts in a row is soul crushing. It's almost as bad when a critical phase of the fight starts where you need to be enraged but it just doesn't pop.
 
G

Gentleman Jack

Member
ZenaxPure said:
Maidens actually just got a ridiculous nerf according to the hotfixes.

That said I've always just assumed the "tuning" for LFR was basically lowering the numbers of the normal versions of fights by random amounts followed by shrugging their shoulders and moving onto something else.
Click to expand...

Admiral Gar'an now has a 3-second cooldown on all her abilities after using Deploy Turret on all difficulty modes.
Click to expand...

This, however, is a much-needed fix. Fucking stupid that she can Rapid Fire immediately after a turret. As if the last phase of this fight wasn't enough of a huge 'fuck you' to every melee class in existence.
 
M

M.D

Member
Speaking of madiens..

I died a couple of times at the same point where we would line up for penetrating shot and bombs would go off at the exact same time

I swaer I was on top of everyone else and it was only me that died to this every time.. like I need to be so slighlty off in order for me to blow up and nothing to happen to everyone else
Maybe I should start wearing my glasses during the raid.. and get a new screen :s
 
Lanrutcon

Lanrutcon

Member
ZenaxPure said:
Maidens actually just got a ridiculous nerf according to the hotfixes.

That said I've always just assumed the "tuning" for LFR was basically lowering the numbers of the normal versions of fights by random amounts followed by shrugging their shoulders and moving onto something else.
Click to expand...

Blizzard could not give 2 shits about LFR, for some fucking reason.They're doing everything in their power to turn it into garbage.
 
C

cdyhybrid

Member
The fight was dumb on LFR anyway, for largely the same reasons it's dumb in regular difficulties.

The first 80% of the fight is turn-your-brain-off easy, once one hits 20% is when the actual fight starts. Might as well reduce the easy part of the fight, no one is going to wipe until the end anyway.
 
S

StMeph

Member
Lanrutcon said:
Blizzard could not give 2 shits about LFR, for some fucking reason.They're doing everything in their power to turn it into garbage.
Click to expand...

Because there's no way to make raiding accessible for everyone without tuning it to be brain-dead tourism mode. Raiding with any semblance of mechanics now requires at least Normal difficulty, and why there are four levels now.

cdyhybrid said:
The first 80% of the fight is turn-your-brain-off easy, once one hits 20% is when the actual fight starts. Might as well reduce the easy part of the fight, no one is going to wipe until the end anyway.
Click to expand...

Really wish this happened, considering it takes 10 minutes to get there.
 
N

Nokterian

Member
I am happy with LFR yeah sometimes it can suck but hey at least i can raid now when i want and get loot and kill some bosses. Back when i lived at home i did raiding hardcore almost daily but you know now older and living by my self i do not have always time so this makes me glad really.
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
I spent a lot of time watching some videos of old WoW dungeons and getting nostalgic. I'm generally not critical of WoW. In terms of most things, I think it's a much better game than it was with only a few exceptions. But man, fuck their new linear dungeon mentality. It's weird to me that they'll say, 'No, we're not catering to LFR players anymore. It's tourist mode, you're not getting pretty gear or trinkets' yet they'll constantly cater to their short attention span user base with dungeons and make them all incredibly linear and boring. Even though it sucked after the first time, the first time through Sunken Temple was amazing. Now it's a big circle. Even though Scholomance had a lot of pointless trash, it had a fun haunted house motif that had some heart. Now it just feels like 'MOP style dungeon with spooooooky theme'

I don't know. I love the dungeons in WoW, if I had to pick dungeons or raids, I think the 5 man experience of dungeons is my preference. It's why I did so many CMs. But I wish they took them more seriously themselves. I still think it's idiotic LFR gives better gear than heroics or CM dailies.
 
C

cdyhybrid

Member
Data West said:
I spent a lot of time watching some videos of old WoW dungeons and getting nostalgic. I'm generally not critical of WoW. In terms of most things, I think it's a much better game than it was with only a few exceptions. But man, fuck their new linear dungeon mentality. It's weird to me that they'll say, 'No, we're not catering to LFR players anymore. It's tourist mode, you're not getting pretty gear or trinkets' yet they'll constantly cater to their short attention span user base with dungeons and make them all incredibly linear and boring. Even though it sucked after the first time, the first time through Sunken Temple was amazing. Now it's a big circle. Even though Scholomance had a lot of pointless trash, it had a fun haunted house motif that had some heart. Now it just feels like 'MOP style dungeon with spooooooky theme'

I don't know. I love the dungeons in WoW, if I had to pick dungeons or raids, I think the 5 man experience of dungeons is my preference. It's why I did so many CMs. But I wish they took them more seriously themselves. I still think it's idiotic LFR gives better gear than heroics or CM dailies.
Click to expand...

I thought CM gear was 660 now.
 
Z

ZenaxPure

Member
Data West said:
But man, fuck their new linear dungeon mentality.
Click to expand...

I agree with your sentiment but I don't agree with this at all. Vanilla WoW had its fair share of incredibly linear dungeons, I mean the first dungeon a lot of people ever did was Deadmines which is about as linear as it gets because it's literally made out of hallways. All 4 SM dungeons were linear, UBRS, Live side Strat, and so on. Every single TBC dungeon with the exception of the caverns of time dungeons were completely linear. There is nothing new about the design at all.

The sad reality is I think most people just prefer it. I remember back when ZG got turned into a 5 man in Cata there was a lot of negative reaction to it and it bummed out. I thought their redesign of it was incredible personally, huge sprawling environment where most bosses were optional, tons of mini-bosses that dropped crafting mats, the boss you needed arch to summon. I am someone who has been pretty down on dungeons in WoW since TBC for similar reasons to yourself but even in Cata when I was doing heroic raiding I would still do ZG everyday for a shot at the mounts because it gave me an excuse to keep going back there.

I wish there was a place in WoW for huge ass 5 mans like that but I don't think most people like them.
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
ZenaxPure said:
I agree with your sentiment but I don't agree with this at all. Vanilla WoW had its fair share of incredibly linear dungeons, I mean the first dungeon a lot of people ever did was Deadmines which is about as linear as it gets because it's literally made out of hallways. All 4 SM dungeons were linear, UBRS, Live side Strat, and so on. Every single TBC dungeon with the exception of the caverns of time dungeons were completely linear. There is nothing new about the design at all.

The sad reality is I think most people just prefer it. I remember back when ZG got turned into a 5 man in Cata there was a lot of negative reaction to it and it bummed out. I thought their redesign of it was incredible personally, huge sprawling environment where most bosses were optional, tons of mini-bosses that dropped crafting mats, the boss you needed arch to summon. I am someone who has been pretty down on dungeons in WoW since TBC for similar reasons to yourself but even in Cata when I was doing heroic raiding I would still do ZG everyday for a shot at the mounts because it gave me an excuse to keep going back there.

I wish there was a place in WoW for huge ass 5 mans like that but I don't think most people like them.
Click to expand...
I guess I should specify that BC is what I had meant by 'new' even though obviously it's not.

The problem, and the difference, is a lot of the more open dungeons in vanilla were longer and offered more reward. You didn't want to do Sunken temple a second time, but it was one of the most run dungeons in my old trade chat because everyone knew if you put up with it, you got some amazing experience and gear to work on leveling with. It's why I still compulsively run it at least once on every character. You did Undead side of Strat because you wanted a shot at the purple sword and some blues that could get you into potential MC groups even though it was hard as balls. You did Dire Maul because you had some jackass Warlock who wouldn't stop bugging you to run it with them for his mount.

The issue with open dungeons is Blizzard's refusal to allow any truly great rewards from it. They had to coax people into 5 man ZG with hideous mounts. The issue is you can just bypass the dungeon process now by going straight into LFR. They could have more open dungeons if they provided better reasons to do them. Otherwise, it's just a mentality of 'fuck i t, it's going to take too long and it's the same reward for this dungeon as it is for SSB.' or the equivalent.
 
D

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Data West said:
I spent a lot of time watching some videos of old WoW dungeons and getting nostalgic. I'm generally not critical of WoW. In terms of most things, I think it's a much better game than it was with only a few exceptions. But man, fuck their new linear dungeon mentality. It's weird to me that they'll say, 'No, we're not catering to LFR players anymore. It's tourist mode, you're not getting pretty gear or trinkets' yet they'll constantly cater to their short attention span user base with dungeons and make them all incredibly linear and boring. Even though it sucked after the first time, the first time through Sunken Temple was amazing. Now it's a big circle. Even though Scholomance had a lot of pointless trash, it had a fun haunted house motif that had some heart. Now it just feels like 'MOP style dungeon with spooooooky theme'

I don't know. I love the dungeons in WoW, if I had to pick dungeons or raids, I think the 5 man experience of dungeons is my preference. It's why I did so many CMs. But I wish they took them more seriously themselves. I still think it's idiotic LFR gives better gear than heroics or CM dailies.
Click to expand...
Structurally five mans just have a tendency to be really limited compared to the raid scene. Lots of raid bosses have subgroups splitting off to accomplish specific tasks, or different operating conditions for melee vs. ranged. Small group sizes of dungeons leave only one healer and tank, and there are no guarantees for melee or ranged makeup. This is almost part of why dungeons have to be straightforward. Most of the difficulty derived from challenge modes becomes short-term CC chaining because there's not a deeper and more unique set of mechanics to engage with. For me Blackrock Foundry's encounter design towers over WoD's dungeon content. It's understandable that Blizzard would want to push more people towards raiding, but the pick up nature of stuff like LFR excises many mechanics checks.

I guess I don't really have much nostalgia for the old world dungeons either. Sunken Temple had too many ideas and fell victim to extraordinarily repetitive design with few visual markers to ease player navigation. In comparison to some of its contemporaries it was absolutely miserable. Places like Blackrock Depths, Maraudon, and Dire Maul did a much better job with open ended dungeons packed with hidden side content, but this style of design doesn't lend itself well to repeated runs over a long period of time.

I'm not sure open ended dungeon design really adds much to the game. One person, typically the tank, is going to take control and lead others along in a group setting, so the sense of exploration can run up against walls.
 
G

Gentleman Jack

Member
Data West said:
The issue with open dungeons is Blizzard's refusal to allow any truly great rewards from it. They had to coax people into 5 man ZG with hideous mounts. The issue is you can just bypass the dungeon process now by going straight into LFR. They could have more open dungeons if they provided better reasons to do them. Otherwise, it's just a mentality of 'fuck i t, it's going to take too long and it's the same reward for this dungeon as it is for SSB.' or the equivalent.
Click to expand...

Removing valor was a huge mistake. Now they're loath to give rewards other than cold hard cash for doing dungeons every day and surprise, surprise, nobody cares about gold. People liked valor, and as uninteresting as Blizzard pretended it was all they accomplished was a multiplying effect on new non-dungeon currencies to care about, that themselves only hold value for buying the exact same kinds of things you use used to spend valor on.

At some point they're going to just start handing those tank/healer goodie bags to everyone who participates in a 5-man once a day or else the 5-man content is going to shrivel up and die completely.
 
Z

ZenaxPure

Member
Data West said:
I guess I should specify that BC is what I had meant by 'new' even though obviously it's not.
Click to expand...

LOL, yeah you'll have to excuse me for not thinking that was what you meant by "new" because yeah that is getting close to a decade old design now haha.

Anyway I dunno. To be honest vanilla dungeons didn't offer raiders any rewards either, it's just most people didn't raid so it was rewarding for more people. That is something that is gone now in the current design and I do think it sucks. I really think they should have kept JP in dungeons and had LFR ilvl gear buyable with it, I would rather do that on some of my alts than get gear from LFR. That wouldn't change how dungeons are designed or anything but it would at least make dungeons not so useless.

dimb said:
I'm not sure open ended dungeon design really adds much to the game. One person, typically the tank, is going to take control and lead others along in a group setting, so the sense of exploration can run up against walls.
Click to expand...

As much as it pains me to say I agree, as noted above I actually do really love them but the problem is after the first trip through the sense of exploration is gone. Data even said it himself, vanilla Sunken Temple sucked shit after the first time you did it. I loved my first trip through there but any after was so frustrating with new players. No don't click that snake yet you assholes. Bleh.

Still makes me sad though.
 
N

Nokterian

Member
You know the anniversary MC right? Glad i did this once just to get the mount and achievement even at level 100 with 40 people it took hours just to think how many hours and days we have spend there when you were level 60.

They designed there dungeons and raids way better now it has a good flow to it. Running a revamped UBRS makes me happy even dungeons where to long in vanilla. Scholomance or Dire Maul where just to big for 5 man. Dire Maul could took also around 2 hours or more now doing dungeons in less then 15 min makes me pretty happy because it's fun and short.
 
C

cdyhybrid

Member
If they made appropriately difficult 5-mans (with equally enjoyable bosses) that gave gear on the level of raid gear, I'd probably be doing those instead.
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Huh.
TG4Dinn.jpg
Click to expand...
 
A

Atlantis

Member
Chie Satonaka said:
Good to know I'm not the only one that can't get rid of a 645 trinket.

I feel your pain, friend. :/
Click to expand...

Pulled a Mythic Emblem of Caustic Healing from my Cache today. :))) Three ilvl bump just like that.

Also had someone randomly whisper me how much they hated my character's name and some other gibberish during a raid earlier, I was so confused. Maybe he wanted it?
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Obviously boomkins and were the OP class in this tier, were there any other strong speccs and which were the absolute worst ones?

Sparkuggz: I´d say melee suffered hard this tier compared to previous ones. Mage/Warlock/Moonkin were all super strong on nearly all fights and hunters were surprisingly better than expected. Class wise I'd say enhancement shaman and elemental shaman just didn't find any use in this tier at all. Every other class nearly has a niche where they are the best at (shadow priest on demand burst, warrior execute burst etc.), where shaman just feels like a class you bring to clear trash faster aka. sustained AoE. That being said, for the normal raiding guild I don't see class stacking being needed as much as people think. Most fights can be done with any setup, with a few fights requiring a certain amount of classes, but when it's cutting edge you obviously aim to play with the best setup possible.
Click to expand...

Really glad you got rid of my utility Blizz ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
A

ampere

Member
Atlantis said:
Also had someone randomly whisper me how much they hated my character's name and some other gibberish during a raid earlier, I was so confused. Maybe he wanted it?
Click to expand...

Some people are just asses?

I whisper people sometimes when I like their transmog or character name/title. I don't think I've ever whispered someone to say I didn't like their name, seems like a weird thing to do.
 
A

Atlantis

Member
ciaossu said:
Some people are just asses?

I whisper people sometimes when I like their transmog or character name/title. I don't think I've ever whispered someone to say I didn't like their name, seems like a weird thing to do.
Click to expand...

Might not have been clear by my post, but it wasn't even someone in the raid. Just a random 70 something in Storm Peaks or whatever.

Just odd all around.
 
A

Ayumi

Member
Helloooooo! I picked up WoW again after 5 years, and I was thinking of buying a new account again to use for RaF before transferring those chars to my main account.

I play on EU and was looking for someone to recruit me? I'm not 100% sure if I will do it yet since 1) It'll cost me extra and 2) I live in Asia so timezones is usually a minor or big problem, depending on your schedule. D:
 
M

M.D

Member
Ayumi said:
Helloooooo! I picked up WoW again after 5 years, and I was thinking of buying a new account again to use for RaF before transferring those chars to my main account.

I play on EU and was looking for someone to recruit me? I'm not 100% sure if I will do it yet since 1) It'll cost me extra and 2) I live in Asia so timezones is usually a minor or big problem, depending on your schedule. D:
Click to expand...


Never done before but I can do it I guess
Were your characters alliance or horde tho? I'm playing alliance on The Maelstrom which is a PvP server

According to the RaF page on battle net we need to be battle net friends first and I need to send you an email invitation so PM me if you want to proceed
I'm also looking to level a monk and heard it's super fast with RaF
 
N

Nokterian

Member
Ayumi said:
Helloooooo! I picked up WoW again after 5 years, and I was thinking of buying a new account again to use for RaF before transferring those chars to my main account.

I play on EU and was looking for someone to recruit me? I'm not 100% sure if I will do it yet since 1) It'll cost me extra and 2) I live in Asia so timezones is usually a minor or big problem, depending on your schedule. D:
Click to expand...

We can do recruit a friend we both benefit from it (i want that cinder mount) also if you buy it you do get a level 90 boost with Warlords of Draenor but also leveling up a new char gives you double boost when i do a recruit a friend.
 
A

ampere

Member
Nokterian said:
We can do recruit a friend we both benefit from it (i want that cinder mount) also if you buy it you do get a level 90 boost with Warlords of Draenor but also leveling up a new char gives you double boost when i do a recruit a friend.
Click to expand...

You mean the boosted 90 can level grant 45 levels?
 
A

Ayumi

Member
Nokterian said:
We can do recruit a friend we both benefit from it (i want that cinder mount) also if you buy it you do get a level 90 boost with Warlords of Draenor but also leveling up a new char gives you double boost when i do a recruit a friend.
Click to expand...

Ahh sorry, I actually found someone to do it with already.

ciaossu said:
You mean the boosted 90 can level grant 45 levels?
Click to expand...

No, it obviously won't work for the boosted characters. Only level 84 and under, non-boosted.
 
A

Ayumi

Member
ciaossu said:
I mean can the character which was boosted grant levels. Obv can't have levels granted to get you above 90
Click to expand...
The recruit gets free levels from the veteran account, if that's what you mean. They're levels added to your account that you can add to any character. At least this is how it works if it's still the same as when RaF was new.
 
A

AzureSkies

Member
Ayumi said:
The recruit gets free levels from the veteran account, if that's what you mean. They're levels added to your account that you can add to any character. At least this is how it works if it's still the same as when RaF was new.
Click to expand...

The recruit gives levels to the veteran, not the other way around.

Other than that though, you're right.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Hey guys, how do enchanted heirlooms work with the heirloom tab? Will they lose their enchant if I add them to my collection? This wasn't in the game yet when I took a break a few months ago.
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Fjordson said:
Hey guys, how do enchanted heirlooms work with the heirloom tab? Will they lose their enchant if I add them to my collection? This wasn't in the game yet when I took a break a few months ago.
Click to expand...

The heirloom isn't really 'added' to the tab as much as it's unlocked. So when you make a copy of the heirloom, you can then enchant that copy of the heirloom and mail it or equip it or whatever.
Darkness said:
Paid gold for a challenge mode gold carry.

These guys are pretty bad.
Click to expand...

I always went to the same guy for my melee alts in MOP and used him in WOD as well for that very reason because his group really impressed me with some of the tricks they knew.
 
JORMBO

JORMBO

Darkness no more
Data West said:
I always went to the same guy for my melee alts in MOP and used him in WOD as well for that very reason because his group really impressed me with some of the tricks they knew.
Click to expand...

Our group was very melee heavy which may have made it harder. Plus our raid leader kept wandering into random stuff and wiping us. He did say he was very tired from running these so much lately and we agreed to regroup at a later date. Overall I think this is going to take around 8 hours to complete the whole thing. Probably should have saved my gold.
 
V

vocab

Member
Hopefully you dont get burned. I would of payed by the dungeon. Not a complete run. Easy to tell a group is good or not just by one of the harder dungeons.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Data West said:
The heirloom isn't really 'added' to the tab as much as it's unlocked. So when you make a copy of the heirloom, you can then enchant that copy of the heirloom and mail it or equip it or whatever.
Click to expand...
Oh okay. So the original keeps the enchant, but I assume the copies on other characters won't have the enchant?
 
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