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[Anoregon]

Yeah, LFR is kind of weird. I mean, I don't like it at all, but I can't really come around to the idea that it's even has any notable impact on sub loss, let alone being the most significant reason. If anything the state/importance of LFR at any given point is a symptom of the game's overall direction, not a cause.

 

[Draxal]

Wow really misses GC.

 

[ZenaxPure]

Yeah, LFR is kind of weird. I mean, I don't like it at all, but I can't really come around to the idea that it's even has any notable impact on sub loss, let alone being the most significant reason.

I dunno, I could see LFR having a bit of an impact on subs, the gear from it in HM/BRF looks like utter garbage, not really a compelling reason to go out there and complete a whole set.

Of course, that is not how that guy in that thread sees it. I believe he may be out of touch with reality if he thinks LFR is the reason subs are down so much.

 

[RoninChaos]

Think it's been said like a million times in this thread at this point lol, but, you just run follower missions on multiple characters using followers who have the treasure hunter trait. That it is literally it.

What you "need" to make it work is multiple characters, each character is basically an extra 10k+ gold per week just from missions once you get their followers (specifically the ones with treasure hunter) leveled up.

Just takes time to set up is all, getting alts and followers leveled up can take time but once its going its really not a big deal. I usually log on my alts around 2-3 times a day to do missions, each character takes maybe 2 minutes, usually less. I don't mess with professions or anything on most of them since professions generate such little gold nowadays.

Preciate it, ZP. So I have one guy at 100, a few in the low 90s. I can change that though.

What characters have those traits? Are there specific ones I should be looking for? I'd like to do some research on this so I can jump in and be as efficient as possible to get this going. I don't have much interest in playing but if I can get things setup to make some decent money while i wait around for something I want to do, logging in once or twice a day for 2-3 minutes at a time isn't a big deal after I get everything setup.

What is your setup? What do you do?

 

[StMeph]

Pretty sure it's because there's not much left in the game once you hit 100.

I'm surprised there was such a big bump from returning players for WoD, given the absurd premise of the expansion from out of nowhere. I wonder what the main driver of that was, maybe the character boost to 90?

But the lack of any lasting form of content outside of raiding is even more apparent than before, and I'm not sure what would have been enough to keep more players. I'm sure that the dropoff would be even higher without the Token, since now that some people can sub just for gold, they will keep subbing, but wouldn't have paid for a sub otherwise.

 

[Anoregon]

I'm surprised there was such a big bump from returning players for WoD, given the absurd premise of the expansion from out of nowhere. I wonder what the main driver of that was, maybe the character boost to 90?

I think the setting had huge appeal to folks who hadn't played for a few years. Pandaria obviously wasn't for everyone, and Cataclysm didn't really have a distinct theme from a geographical/aesthetic standpoint. Execution is certainly up for debate, but the idea of going to draenor and seeing/being a part of that world was really interesting for a lot of people who maybe didn't really care about WoW since WOTLK.

 

[Bisnic]

Pretty sure it's because there's not much left in the game once you hit 100.

I'm surprised there was such a big bump from returning players for WoD, given the absurd premise of the expansion from out of nowhere. I wonder what the main driver of that was, maybe the character boost to 90?

But the lack of any lasting form of content outside of raiding is even more apparent than before, and I'm not sure what would have been enough to keep more players. I'm sure that the dropoff would be even higher without the Token, since now that some people can sub just for gold, they will keep subbing, but wouldn't have paid for a sub otherwise.

That's me. I would probably have unsubbed a month ago until patch 6.2 release if the WoW tokens didn't exist.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

how i wish totalbiscuit still did his WoW things.

Guys with opinions like totalbiscuit are a dime a dozen.

Plus I can understand the strain of trying to create consistenty quality original youtube content for a game that just lost 3M subs because there's only about 3 months worth of interesting game in WoD. You can see it on almost every wow-centric channel. They're either starting to talk about other MMOs or games completely or have resorted to crummy, repetitive rants and top ten lists.

 

[ZenaxPure]

What is your setup? What do you do?

To be honest there isn't much to it. Get an inn, use it to recruit a follower with the treasure hunter trait each week. Build a dwarven bunker and pump out work orders for follower upgrade tokens.

It's just something that takes time because you are limited to one follower per week from the inn. That means you can only reliably get 1 new follower each week that has the trait. The one exception to this is the Harrison Jones daily quests added in 6.1. Doing all 6 of those nets you Harrison as a follower who has treasure hunter (and another very powerful trait).

That's really all there is to it. Doesn't take effort as much as it does time since you are mostly just waiting for the week to reset so you can recruit another follower from the inn.

I'm surprised there was such a big bump from returning players for WoD, given the absurd premise of the expansion from out of nowhere. I wonder what the main driver of that was, maybe the character boost to 90?

I see people say this a lot but I have to say I don't find it very surprising. 10 mil is what MoP started with as well. I don't think it's that crazy or unbelievable that WoD managed to get back to where MoP started. Wouldn't be surprised if like half of those subs were people who just quit in that last year of MoP when there was no new patches. Realistically it's probably a mix of people who quit near the end of MoP but wanted to come back when new content came out, people who liked the idea of a free level 90, and some people who fell into the nostalgia trap.

Plus blizzard marketed the shit out of the expansion, more so than they did with Cata or MoP from my memory. I don't remember a giant Deathwing jaw or drunken panda smashed into a taxi cab or some shitty tumblrs.

 

[StMeph]

Plus blizzard marketed the shit out of the expansion, more so than they did with Cata or MoP from my memory. I don't remember a giant Deathwing jaw or drunken panda smashed into a taxi cab or some shitty tumblrs.

Yeah, that marketing push was definitely more than before.

 

[BearPawB]

It's a shame there is a lack of other content because the raid content has been so good (imo)

 

[strafer]

TB plays the troll starting zone in Cata

Memories

 

[Granadier]

Apparently today is the 10 year anniversary of Leeroy Jenkins being uploaded.

Happy Leeroy day.

 

[RoninChaos]

To be honest there isn't much to it. Get an inn, use it to recruit a follower with the treasure hunter trait each week. Build a dwarven bunker and pump out work orders for follower upgrade tokens.

It's just something that takes time because you are limited to one follower per week from the inn. That means you can only reliably get 1 new follower each week that has the trait. The one exception to this is the Harrison Jones daily quests added in 6.1. Doing all 6 of those nets you Harrison as a follower who has treasure hunter (and another very powerful trait).

That's really all there is to it. Doesn't take effort as much as it does time since you are mostly just waiting for the week to reset so you can recruit another follower from the inn.



I see people say this a lot but I have to say I don't find it very surprising. 10 mil is what MoP started with as well. I don't think it's that crazy or unbelievable that WoD managed to get back to where MoP started. Wouldn't be surprised if like half of those subs were people who just quit in that last year of MoP when there was no new patches. Realistically it's probably a mix of people who quit near the end of MoP but wanted to come back when new content came out, people who liked the idea of a free level 90, and some people who fell into the nostalgia trap.

Plus blizzard marketed the shit out of the expansion, more so than they did with Cata or MoP from my memory. I don't remember a giant Deathwing jaw or drunken panda smashed into a taxi cab or some shitty tumblrs.

okay, i got it. I read up a bit and see that treasure hunting just doubles the gold you get from missions. And the follower upgrade tokens are to reroll the status in hopes that you get treasure hunter on them as well, right?

When a blue has to make a lengthy post justifying the legendary ring procs, I can't help but feel that maybe they're really not ideal after all.

I think watcher is a bit of the problem with the game right now. Yeah, there are a lot of people behind the scenes too but he appears to be running the show and some of the WoD problems fall on him. I don't think he realizes that how he thinks people should play the game and how they actually play it are two different things.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Hold on the legendary rings in a raid share a cooldown based on their proc? So if a mage uses theirs because combustion just ticked huge that burns it for the rogues/warriors/ferals in the group, as well?

 

[ampere]

Hold on the legendary rings in a raid share a cooldown based on their proc? So if a mage uses theirs because combustion just ticked huge that burns it for the rogues/warriors/ferals in the group, as well?

Yes.

Tank rings share CDs and activate together, healer rings share CDs and activate together, and dps rings share CDs and activate together.

It's basically another Bloodlust. And yes anyone with the ring can activate it, some it's going to be something the raid leader will want to control.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Man, my main has such huge bag space issues. Could really use another tab or two of void storage.

 

[ampere]

Man, my main has such huge bag space issues. Could really use another tab or two of void storage.

I want a tabard/shirt tab, that will free up a lot of slots for me.

And goddammit why don't potions and the like stack to 200 yet!? Bump my thread and complain peoples http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/16542734686

 

[Robin64]

A tabard tab has been a long time coming. I can't see it being that hard, especially now they have the backend of the heirlooms and toys to work from.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

A tabard tab has been a long time coming. I can't see it being that hard, especially now they have the backend of the heirlooms and toys to work from.

They seem dead against things in the collections tab that have a tangible 'on use' benefit though. Aviana's Feather, for example, should be a toy, but nope. I fear they'd only put cosmetic-only tabards so you'd still need to lug around your Baradin wardens tabard and argent crusader's tabard.

Wouldn't mind a shirt tab in collectibles.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Yeah those fucking brawler's guild shirts. Is like, 12 slots.

 

[Bisnic]

Meh. Shirts are worthless, you barely see them at all with most armor hiding it.

 

[ZenaxPure]

Meh. Shirts are worthless, you barely see them at all with most armor hiding it.

Psh as if I wear a shirt for how it looks. I wear my Brawler's Guild shirt because it gives a buff that says "look at me!" and it makes my friend upset which in turn makes me laugh.


But yes, we really need a tabard/shirt storage really bad. Friend and I were just talking about that minutes ago on vent haha.

 

[ampere]

Meh. Shirts are worthless, you barely see them at all with most armor hiding it.

But they are a thing and I collect things. lol

Agree they are mostly worthless

 

[JORMBO]

Vial of the Sands was down to 8k on my server the other day. I am assuming they were duped since there were 2 pages full of them. I bought a few while they were cheap and resold them today for 20k each since they appear to have cleaned all the dupes out of the AH. Easy 36k gold profit.

 

[Robin64]

Yeah, noticed a huge spike in VotS dupes recently.

And Blizz still claim you can't dupe.

 

[ampere]

Yeah, noticed a huge spike in VotS dupes recently.

And Blizz still claim you can't dupe.

It's a semantics thing for them.

The items are certainly duplicated, whether via disconnects or fraud, but I guess Blizzard has one sort of thing they consider duping and they call the rest of this something else. They should really just call all of it duping since the result is the same.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

So I'm leveling my Monk and they give you two major abilities at 56. Rising Sun Kick and Tigereye Brew. Kinda dumb since they both heavily change the way the spec plays. Made my WA for Rising Sun (which is slightly imperfect, but good enough for now), but Tigereye Brew I'm not sure what to do with.

 

[StMeph]

Vial of the Sands was down to 8k on my server the other day. I am assuming they were duped since there were 2 pages full of them. I bought a few while they were cheap and resold them today for 20k each since they appear to have cleaned all the dupes out of the AH. Easy 36k gold profit.

8kg is insane.

 

[ZenaxPure]

okay, i got it. I read up a bit and see that treasure hunting just doubles the gold you get from missions. And the follower upgrade tokens are to reroll the status in hopes that you get treasure hunter on them as well, right?

Nah, follower upgrade items are to boost their ilvl. There are gold missions all the way up to ilvl 675 so you need to get them geared up.

 

[JORMBO]

8kg is insane.

Yeah, wish I had grabbed a few more.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

A tabard tab has been a long time coming. I can't see it being that hard, especially now they have the backend of the heirlooms and toys to work from.

Seriously. Tabards are killing my inventory space.

 

[TomServo]

Well, got my main fully heroic geared. Motivation to continue pug tanking heroics has dramatically decreased.

I'm not BiS, but my goals for each tier are just to clear normal. I'm 7/10 H BRF now @ 687... overachieved this tier. Could try for 10/10, but... nah. Dealing with meter chasing DPS who won't single target on phase 2 of Blast Furnace is frustrating, and the general shitshow going on around me during maidens is equally frustrating. Not even sure I want to try H Blackhand.

Think it may be time to just level my third and fourth alts to 100 so that they're ready for the next expansion while we wait for HFC.

 

[RoninChaos]

Nah, follower upgrade items are to boost their ilvl. There are gold missions all the way up to ilvl 675 so you need to get them geared up.

I read some where that you can get follower's abilities rerolled. How do you do that?

And I have to gear them?

 

[LAUGHTREY]

I dunno, I could see LFR having a bit of an impact on subs, the gear from it in HM/BRF looks like utter garbage, not really a compelling reason to go out there and complete a whole set.

Of course, that is not how that guy in that thread sees it. I believe he may be out of touch with reality if he thinks LFR is the reason subs are down so much.

I think the initial reaction that LFR keeps people around makes sense at first, but if you really think about it and what LFR does for the vast majority of players, I don't know that it does.

Being able to run the entire raid and kill the last boss in a day doesn't really seem to keep people around. I personally get the same sense of 'completion' from LFR as I do from Normal/Heroic.

I did a little bit of raiding with a guild in MoP and a little with LFR, and unless I looked at my armory page, I couldn't tell you which I killed in LFR and which I killed in a "regular" raid. To me, they are the same. In WotLK, I would go through that annoyance of finding a guild of people I could get along with, go to their raids with their rules, and wait week after week to progress with them through people leaving and drama and whatnot, so eventually I would kill Malygos or Yogg+0.

I don't know that I would catagorize myself as a casual player, but I'm definitely not a mythic raider or even WANT to be one. My options in my mind are:

-Go through the headache of finding a guild, getting a raid spot, progressing, wiping, spending gold on pots/flasks/food, waiting around for people who don't show up that night, finding pugs.
-Just queue up LFR and kill blackhand in like 20 minutes. The gear isn't the same and the rewards aren't the same, but I can also just wait a little while until I'm level 110 or something solo-farm the gear and mount like I do with ICC and Al'Akir every week.

This is all just me and my anecdotal evidence obviously, but it doesn't seem that far off when you make the game "completable" (albeit in a super easy way) when someone is done, they unsubscribe. When you have to invest time in a guild and get to know them, play with them and share loot with them, it takes a lot longer to beat a raid than a 40 minute queue and facerolling the bosses. Even if you don't get to that point in the game where you are in a guild and raid-ready, it's still a far off goal and something left to do in the game, it's a carrot on the end of a longer stick.

When you see stuff like the majority of players don't get past level 10, is it really surprising that the majority of players may level up, queue for LFR, complete it and then unsub? I also tend to go with MMO-Champ being the opposite of reality, they usually have it completely backwards.

 

[JORMBO]

I did LFR a lot with multiple characters in MOP for gear and transmog each week.

They took away the gear (for the most part) and transmog, plus made it too easy. I ran LFR in WOD on one character just to finish the legendary line. I would usually finish it on Monday since I hated it and put it off each week.

I think LFR itself is great. They just chose to mess it up this expansion.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

I did LFR a lot with multiple characters in MOP for gear and transmog each week.

They took away the gear (for the most part) and transmog, plus made it too easy. I ran LFR in WOD on one character just to finish the legendary line. I would usually finish it on Monday since I hated it and put it off each week.

I think LFR itself is great. They just chose to mess it up this expansion.

That's another thing though that lends credibility to the idea. They clipped LFR.

People who did Normal/Heroic did it to get trinkets and set bonuses, and got burnt out of the same raid 3 times a week.

Likewise it shows they want people to still have something to work for. When you have a slightly weaker piece of the same gear you can get from the real raids for transmog, why bother?

 

[BriareosGAF]

As someone who has been playing since friends and family alpha, my pattern is to play content through all the way at a rate commensurate with my ability to commit time (full-time job, 2 kids, interests outside wow, etc.). This means that I level to <new cap> on each xpac, then start LFR, complete LFR item upgrade rotation to usually around 85% on one char before drop rates/dupe items/etc. get annoying, then quit. Usually I'm done in about three-four months of casual play depending on rep grind to "100% content" for collectibles etc.

This go-round I used my free boost to get my old vanilla 60 warrior up to 90, levelled them, then enjoyed the sweet, sweet queue times of a prot warrior and rapidly got him up to my main (shadow priest). Then I re-specced shadow priest to holy on secondary and started learning to heal again and was able to very quickly "finish" all the LFR content with ilvl 660+ etc. This has made it probably the longest I've stayed playing since WotLK, all the way to the end of April.

Without LFR I imagine I would probably "finish" in a month or so since the rep grind would be so mind numbing. So for me LFR extends my active play time significantly. On the other hand, I never bother unsubbing since I have the employee discount (I work for ATVI though, not Blizz, don't speak for my employer, etc etc.).

 

[LAUGHTREY]

As someone who has been playing since friends and family alpha, my pattern is to play content through all the way at a rate commensurate with my ability to commit time (full-time job, 2 kids, interests outside wow, etc.). This means that I level to <new cap> on each xpac, then start LFR, complete LFR item upgrade rotation to usually around 85% on one char before drop rates/dupe items/etc. get annoying, then quit. Usually I'm done in about three-four months of casual play depending on rep grind to "100% content" for collectibles etc.

This go-round I used my free boost to get my old vanilla 60 warrior up to 90, levelled them, then enjoyed the sweet, sweet queue times of a prot warrior and rapidly got him up to my main (shadow priest). Then I re-specced shadow priest to holy on secondary and started learning to heal again and was able to very quickly "finish" all the LFR content with ilvl 660+ etc. This has made it probably the longest I've stayed playing since WotLK, all the way to the end of April.

Without LFR I imagine I would probably "finish" in a month or so since the rep grind would be so mind numbing. So for me LFR extends my active play time significantly. On the other hand, I never bother unsubbing since I have the employee discount (I work for ATVI though, not Blizz, don't speak for my employer, etc etc.).

Well what did you do before LFR though? It's only been around since 4.3.

 

[ZenaxPure]

I think the initial reaction that LFR keeps people around makes sense at first, but if you really think about it and what LFR does for the vast majority of players, I don't know that it does.

Problem is I don't think it's that simple. If taking time to complete stuff is the baramoter for people quitting, then we shouldn't have lost 1.5 mil or whatever subs before LFR came out. Start of Cata was very time consuming to get anything done given the general difficulty and such, yet, subs still dropped.

Also the other thing you aren't taking into account is that the introduction of LFR was also the death of 5 mans as being a viable endgame opportunity for gearing up. Dragon Soul VP rewards weren't as attractive as the past and then in MoP they completely stopped making new 5 mans AND essentially removed VP as a way to buy gear. Yes I realize there was VP gear in 5.0 but it was gated behind all those reps and not really something you could just go after by doing some 5 mans, JP was basically pointless. If anything I'd say the state of 5 mans since the introduction of LFR is a bigger contender for causing people to quit than LFR itself.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Problem is I don't think it's that simple. If taking time to complete stuff is the baramoter for people quitting, then we shouldn't have lost 1.5 mil or whatever subs before LFR came out. Start of Cata was very time consuming to get anything done given the general difficulty and such, yet, subs still dropped.

Also the other thing you aren't taking into account is that the introduction of LFR was also the death of 5 mans as being a viable endgame opportunity for gearing up. Dragon Soul VP rewards weren't as attractive as the past and then in MoP they completely stopped making new 5 mans AND essentially removed VP as a way to buy gear. Yes I realize there was VP gear in 5.0 but it was gated behind all those reps and not really something you could just go after by doing some 5 mans, JP was basically pointless. If anything I'd say the state of 5 mans since the introduction of LFR is a bigger contender for causing people to quit than LFR itself.

It can be both.

The feedback in WoD in general seem to be: Nothing to do except raid.

So if you just do the raids in a day or two, why would you keep coming back? Why progress your character if you can "complete" everything in a week?

 

[ZenaxPure]

It can be both.

The feedback in WoD in general seem to be: Nothing to do except raid.

So if you just do the raids in a day or two, why would you keep coming back? Why progress your character if you can "complete" everything in a week?

Well I mean, you can't complete it in a week anyway. The final wing of BRF LFR didn't open for what... 2 months or something crazy? Maybe you're just using a week as an exaggeration but they gate that stuff so hardcore anyway. If you wanted to complete the game and then quit in Warlords you had to play for at least like 4 and halfish months. That certainly didn't happen based on those Q1 numbers.

 

[Anoregon]

It can be both.

The feedback in WoD in general seem to be: Nothing to do except raid.

So if you just do the raids in a day or two, why would you keep coming back? Why progress your character if you can "complete" everything in a week?

Well I think it's more accurate to say there is nothing worthwhile to do except raid. Blizzard took some chances/went in new directions with non-raid endgame in WoD and it largely just didn't work out.

Even 6.2 is adding mythic 5mans and some other stuff like tanaan, but reports from PTR are still pretty much that it's all kind of just mediocre stopgaps, design and reward wise, compared to raiding.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Well I mean, you can't complete it in a week anyway. The final wing of BRF LFR didn't open for what... 2 months or something crazy? Maybe you're just using a week as an exaggeration but they gate that stuff so hardcore anyway. If you wanted to complete the game and then quit in Warlords you had to play for at least like 4 and halfish months. That certainly didn't happen based on those Q1 numbers.

Well then you're in the territory of the equally ridiculous BRF releasing 3 months after Highmaul did, and assuming these LFR only players even bothered to wait around for it.

In either case though, BRF LFR was fully out by the end of quarter 1. I don't know if they count subs still active but cancelled.

 

[Calcium]

I recently resubbed to try out the new token system. It's pretty damn cool that I'll be able to play the game for free since my garrison can easily make 20K+ a month. I'm not a raider so I struggle to maintain interest in the game, but for the first time in a while I don't feel burnt out after a couple weeks.

I've always played Horde and I've been trying to get established on another server playing Alliance. I don't know what it is but my Alliance followers fail missions so frequently that it is almost funny. Gotta say though, the Alliance garrison is much nicer looking than the Horde version.

 

[Oracle Dragon]

Well I think it's more accurate to say there is nothing worthwhile to do except raid. Blizzard took some chances/went in new directions with non-raid endgame in WoD and it largely just didn't work out.

Even 6.2 is adding mythic 5mans and some other stuff like tanaan, but reports from PTR are still pretty much that it's all kind of just mediocre stopgaps, design and reward wise, compared to raiding.

Well I'm hoping they do a better job with the mythic 5 mans, and timewalking dungeons look really good to me (why they are locked behind special events I'll never know). The problem is that heroics are harder than LFR, yet reward inferior gear. Mythic heroics should offer gear at least on par with LFR, it needs to be a viable end game. LFR is just too easy, there are no mechanics at all except on the last boss. And it shows as everyone facerolls through 9/10 BFR LFR, and then it is usually multiple wipes on Blackhand.

There were so many people I played with who, once they got their gear to queue for LFR, never bothered with heroics again. Why struggle through heroic Shadowmoon for 630's when you can just sleep through LFR HM at get 640's?

 

[BriareosGAF]

Well what did you do before LFR though? It's only been around since 4.3.

Essentially post-vanilla, pre-LFR I'd just burn through the non-raid content and stop playing after a few months. Let's see...

Classic: ran 5-mans with a close knit group of friends from the alpha/beta guild I was in; pre-nerf Scarlet/Scholo/DM/BRD/etc., occasionally helped out on MC/Onyxia but first child was born so never raided much
BC: PUG 5-mans occasionally, group of friends were all busy having kids so quit early
WotLK: PUG 5-mans and raids occasionally, lots of Argent Tournament, rep grind
Cataclysm: least favorite expansion, minimal amount of PUG 5-mans, quit very early
Pandara spent an enormous amount of time doing LFR for Thunder King, Isle of Thunder, rep grind, but still stopped playing in April, logged back in pre-Draenor and tried to do some of the Timeless Isle before it dropped, but I missed Siege of Ogrimmar entirely
Draenor: per above have done all the levelling, LFR, etc, and am now done for a bit

 

[ZenaxPure]

Well then you're in the territory of the equally ridiculous BRF releasing 3 months after Highmaul did, and assuming these LFR only players even bothered to wait around for it.

In either case though, BRF LFR was fully out by the end of quarter 1. I don't know if they count subs still active but cancelled.

Sure, I don't disagree. My point was really just that it's an unknown factor if LFR had any sort of huge impact on subs simply because they started dropping way before LFR was a thing that existed. Personally I still think the general increase in difficulty of dungeons and raids from wrath to cata is the biggest culprit. That very thing is the reason stuff like LFR and flex even exist in the first place.

Which is also kind of a response to the above post talking about mythic dungeons. What and who are these things for exactly? If they are actually challenging when they come out they are immediately a failure in terms of making people interested in 5 mans again. I don't really get what blizzard is going for with this feature yet.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Sure, I don't disagree. My point was really just that it's an unknown factor if LFR had any sort of huge impact on subs simply because they started dropping way before LFR was a thing that existed. Personally I still think the general increase in difficulty of dungeons and raids from wrath to cata is the biggest culprit. That very thing is the reason stuff like LFR and flex even exist in the first place.

Dungeons weren't harder in Cata, people just went from fully geared ICC to ->blues in Cataclysm and they hard to start on the treadmill again after getting fat on gear. It wasn't really like that in BC->WotLK since you started in Normal dungeons in Wrath. If things being hard kept people from playing the game, BC would've been where the subs started dropping.

In either case, their argument for LFR was that more people experiencing the raids meant they could do more raids, I'm not really seeing it. Highmaul was an OK introductory raid and BRF is pretty solid, but if HFC is the last raid of the expac, and we have another year long wait...

LFR was a mistake, and it's a shame they can't put that toothpaste back in the tube with that one. Even if people aren't just one-and-doneing LFR and then unsubbing, they aren't playing together anymore. Why go through the effort of a guild when you just have 24 other disposable players.

It's not really any good, WoW is becoming more a single-player game every expansion.

 

[RoninChaos]

May 13th for the Mystic Runesaber. In-game shop, of course.



And reaching level 20 in Heroes of the Storm will get you the Graves pet in World of Warcraft.



Some other cross-game promotions...

Reaching level 100 in WoW gets you the Dire Wolf mount in HotS.



Reaching level 12 in HotS gets you a card back for Hearthstone.



Winning 100 Hearthstone games gets you a Hearthstone Card mount in HotS.

Any other cross game stuff like this?