I don't play warlock so I will take your word for it. I have made plenty of changes on my paladin when before the revamp I never needed to make any.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
I don't play warlock so I will take your word for it. I have made plenty of changes on my paladin when before the revamp I never needed to make any.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
You said you are talking from the perspective of CM's. Maybe you make changes there, but you really don't when it comes to raiding.
What do you play? Ret, Prot, Holy.
You'll never use Pursuit of Justice as Holy/Ret. T1: Speed of Light for Holy, Long Arm of the Law for Ret everytime. T2: Fist of Justice. T3: Ret will never use Eternal Flame (100%, no clue why it is even a talent; has anyone picked this ever?) so you are using Selfless Healer or Sacred Shield (SS is much easier/better to use and can help the dead spots in your rotation as well as providing on demand healing), Holy will always use Eternal Flame. T4: Unbreakable Spirit is really the best choice here, I suppose you can make an argument for Clemency. T5: Ret DP, Holy Sanctified Wrath. T6: Execution Sentence. T7: Final Verdict/Beacon of Faith
Again, illusion.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
The problem vis a vis classes not feeling like an RPG anymore is that while there were problems pre-wotlk/cata where some classes were just so entirely useless except for one spec, some classes also weren't totally shitty and were a ton of fun to play, their solution was to water down everything that was fun and unique, while trying to pull up the other specs at the same time so they got even as fast as possible.
Warlock is a lot more than just Shadowbolt a billion times for insane DPS like it was in BC, but now we're just shadowpriests=afflic frostmage=destro and gobbledegook=demo.
The cool thing about afflic over spriest is that we had two separate channel spells and soul swap. Guess what they removed in WoD?
Warlock is a lot more than just Shadowbolt a billion times for insane DPS like it was in BC, but now we're just shadowpriests=afflic frostmage=destro and gobbledegook=demo.
The cool thing about afflic over spriest is that we had two separate channel spells and soul swap. Guess what they removed in WoD?
During MOP I did golds on one of my paladins as prot then golds on my other paladin as ret. This time around I am doing golds on both as prot. Unfortunately some in my group are in full on no lifer everyday mythic progress mode so we can't do CMs very often.
I am using Seraphim and Sacred Shield for CMs but while superior I don't really like the play style that much. Eternal Flame and Holy Shield are still viable and much more friendly to beginners, I wouldn't consider them wrong choices as for some players who struggle to keep up the absorb and the different rotation they would be superior. When I just want to tank some 5 mans for a satchel or whatever while watching some Netflix I use EF and HS instead. I think they are great examples of the strength of the new trees.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Meh, it is useless; waste of a GCD imo. It is kinda of funny that the class that got a massive overhaul in MoP is in need of another.
Demo: Ruined as of the last patch (even they admit that it isn't favorable to play and will be getting an overhaul)
Affliction: In shambles now that snapshotting is gone, utterly boring to play. Has massive issues concerning target swaps. Soul Swap shouldn't cost a shard to utilize should just have a CD on it. Who is going to use 1 shard to remove dots from a target and move them over? Much less two shards to SB:SS. Never thought I would say it but I would much rather go back to the shadowbolt filler than a channeled spell.
Destruction: I don't know I really don't have too much of a problem with Destro. Still think we should have fel flame back that way I can at least do something while moving.
You said it yourself, there is a superior choice. Which means there really isn't a choice at all, unless you consider decreasing your effectiveness a choice. Players went to EJ and the like before to figure out the best 'choice' and then spec'd into it; the same exact thing is happening now. Illusion of choice. Why don't Holy Paladin's pick Selfless Healer or Sacred Shield over Eternal Flame? Because EF is far and away the best talent. Decreasing your effectiveness to somehow show that you made a choice is rather odd. Likewise, Ret will never ever use EF.
Sax Russel
Banned
There's an obvious choice for people doing Mythic and CM golds who have the skill to get the most out of their class but most players aren't at that level. For everyone else playing a spec that is easier to play in their Normal/Heroic raids which are very forgiving difficulty levels in guilds where typically only a couple of DPSers are performing anywhere near where they should be may be better than making a dogs dinner of Seraphim and SS. I think it's a very good design, you disagree and that's okay.
There was a glyph that gave increased Inquisition uptime at the cost of DPS before they removed that spell. I think these options that make classes easier to play at a cost of effectiveness are great and Blizzard should do more of them.
Some say they didn't like this but to me it gave me more a meaning to play a certain role in WoW.
Now you click and you get talents here i had to invest in my tree i wanted and spend wisely what to choose most of the time and at the end game i went for what did the most damage.
Now you click and you get talents here i had to invest in my tree i wanted and spend wisely what to choose most of the time and at the end game i went for what did the most damage.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
I'd be curious to try one and get my memory jogged about how awful some of the game mechanics were back in the day lol
Don't forget about putting Spell Hit on your Tanks so their Taunts have less chance to miss!
Or leveling up a Weapon Skill because you won a shiny new weapon, but have no points in the skill.
*gets shiny new Gun from Raid Boss*
"Dammit, I gotta get an Ammo Pouch and Bullets now..."
*Buys ammo pouch/bullets*
"...And my Gun Skill is too low now. Better get to shooting up stuff!"
*pew pew* MISS
*pew pew* MISS
Your Gun Skill has increased to 1
*pew pew* MISS
Your Gun Skill has increased to 2
"Better put on my INT gear so this goes a little faster..."
And so on...
4 prot warriors all with the Gahz'ranka (Zul'Gurub) spell hit trinket on 4 horsemen!
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
Having to spend 30 minutes before raids every day farming soul shards.
My rogue is 400/900 runes.
I have only killed the bosses needed for the quest items in Highmaul once. I have killed Blackhand LFR twice and no other bosses. I wonder how long it will take to get caught up without actually doing the raids. The shipyard seems to be pumping out tons of runes.
Pally buffs only being castable single target, and lasting 5 minutes. You would buff the entire raid, and as you were about to finish the first buffs were wearing off. All you did was buff people over and over most of the raid.
I have only killed the bosses needed for the quest items in Highmaul once. I have killed Blackhand LFR twice and no other bosses. I wonder how long it will take to get caught up without actually doing the raids. The shipyard seems to be pumping out tons of runes.
Pally buffs only being castable single target, and lasting 5 minutes. You would buff the entire raid, and as you were about to finish the first buffs were wearing off. All you did was buff people over and over most of the raid.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Gorefiend?
Making the shipyard required for PvE progression is the worst part of this patch. : /
I think there was at least some more choice in the old ones, like if you were primarily into PvP you could spec into some more defensive passives or other means of more survivability (like speccing down the resto tree if you were a PvP enh/ele shaman). And you could sometimes have those gimmicky hybrid builds like reckadins.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
But those hybrid builds were also never intended, and would be fixed at the cost of the pure spec.
And I most definitely still have pvp vs pve talents. Soul Leech is poop in PvP compared to dark regeneration, I would never use leech in pvp.
It's the new Temple of Kotmogu and Mines!
At least those were over quickly.
I meant moreso the choice of extra survival vs a few extra percents in crit or whatever which generally boils down to PvP vs PvE. You don't really have any kind of equivalent choice like that with the new talents. Each tier is a clearly defined damage/survival/cc role with 3 options. You can't really pick something else in place of those 3 survival options you're given.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
While perhaps shoehorned in, they weren't that bad. From my experience. But I know other people did have a difficult time.
Some say they didn't like this but to me it gave me more a meaning to play a certain role in WoW.
Now you click and you get talents here i had to invest in my tree i wanted and spend wisely what to choose most of the time and at the end game i went for what did the most damage.
The problem with this is that the choices had to be completely optimized in order to actually be good at your class. Even with the paired down talents, some specs are completely unviable.
Take Survival Hunters for instance. They're practically worthless in 6.2 because reasons. Even if they had the old talent system, it still wouldn't make up for all the problems their spec has due to excessive nerfing.
yeah this is a mess
???
In a raiding situation you would always take the extra damage. There was no choice at all, if you didn't max damage you did it wrong. extra survival vs. a few percents in crit isn't a choice that existed with old talent trees.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
He meant you would take the damage for pve, and the defensives for pvp.
but i think if you ever got past 1500 you just went full in on the damage anyway, going defensive in pvp is usually just losing slower.
Well that still doesn't make much sense because talents for pvp vs pve are still different even in the new system.
0 chance the old system had more customization. I change talents tons of times a week now, not ALL of them all the time, but a lot of them a lot more. I changed my talents under the old system as infrequently as possible and you were generally just dumb if you picked anything besides the cookie cutter.
Some say they didn't like this but to me it gave me more a meaning to play a certain role in WoW.
Now you click and you get talents here i had to invest in my tree i wanted and spend wisely what to choose most of the time and at the end game i went for what did the most damage.
That system had all of a handful of actually useful specs.There was like 1 tanking spec for warriors, after all the mandatory stuff had been picked up we had all of 3 points to play with and those had to go into a semi-mandatory talent. DPS specs were just as bad too.
With the current system you can make an argument for each talent choice, in the old one there was only 1 good talent set per spec. Anything else had you doing little to no damage, taking too much damage or not being able to heal enough to keep up with the damage.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Zakuun holy shit that fight. I can't even imagine on Mythic.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
It is the same now.
People keep saying stuff like this and it just isn't true. There is no reason that you would take EF as a ret paladin over the other two selections. Same is true for anything other than Archimonde's Darkness, it only gets worse if you pick X talent you have to take Y. Go ahead take GoSac and Demonic Servitude. Go ahead Destro lock, make an argument for Mannoroth's Fury.
The new system is better sure, but only because the old system was so horribly crappy for customization. I shouldn't be looking at talents and thinking nope, no reason I would ever pick that up. IF you pick GoSac+Demonic Servitude it should buff your damage a bit more than a normal Sac.
Let's look at the old 2.4 talent trees for shaman:
http://calculators.iradei.eu/talents/shaman.htm
In just the first couple of rows for the enhancement trees I think there are some tangible choices. You had instant ghost wolf, reducing the grounding totem cooldown, as well as increasing lightning shield damage in the second tier. None of these were really deemed useful in PvE at the time so raiders would skip them, but I used them all the time in PvP. Same thing with Anticipation and Toughness further down.
My memory is a bit fuzzy at this point, but I think it was also common for PvP elementals to forfeit the final Totem of Wrath talent to be able to spec down the resto tree into Ancestral Swiftness instead.
http://calculators.iradei.eu/talents/shaman.htm
In just the first couple of rows for the enhancement trees I think there are some tangible choices. You had instant ghost wolf, reducing the grounding totem cooldown, as well as increasing lightning shield damage in the second tier. None of these were really deemed useful in PvE at the time so raiders would skip them, but I used them all the time in PvP. Same thing with Anticipation and Toughness further down.
My memory is a bit fuzzy at this point, but I think it was also common for PvP elementals to forfeit the final Totem of Wrath talent to be able to spec down the resto tree into Ancestral Swiftness instead.
Not EVERY talent tier is an even choice, or even a compellign one, but most of them are. To be completely frank, if you can't find uses for your other talents you're probably not that great at your class or don't understand what the talents are doing for you in the first place. Yes, that probably sounds a bit insulting, but it's true. The old system was literally "You do more damage" as a talent choice, that is so very rarely the case now. AT WORST the current system is 'you do more damage in situation A B or C' and A is much more common than B or C, but B and C still have a place.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Figuring out Defile vs. Necrotic Plague in HFC is so annoying. Changes the rotation somewhat significantly too.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
YOLOd and bought more Medallions of the Legion. Probably a bad decision, but I have my Empowered Augment Rune now.
hellmonkey
Member
Is that reusable or consumable? I would think its reusable for the stupid cost.
Also, wooot. Got Rags mount about 30 minutes ago and bought the 150k apexis mount. Doing LK and Yog saran now.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
The Empowered Augment Rune which is Vol'jin's Headhunters (or Alliance equivalent rep) exalted is an infinite use augment rune with a 1 minute CD (so it's up for every pull).
TBH I don't know why I bought the Medallions - was only ~7 days out on rep otherwise, but whatever. I have enough gold to make poor decisions like that every now and then. Will have Order of the Awakened exalted tomorrow, just a sliver of rep away from that, but I wasn't gonna drop another ~10k just to have it today.
Grats on the firehawk, it's one of my favorites.
hellmonkey
Member
Im sitting on 400k, but I don't want to spend it. Im waiting for the corrupted griffin to hit 150k or less, as well as a few other TCG mounts.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
WELP:
ALL THE LUCK
ALL THE LUCK
Last weekend was a trip down memory lane because I've stopped playing during TBC although a lot of these old dungeons have been changed / shortened?. I don't have to much time to spare and majority of my playtime will be during the weekend so I made the choice to power through and get to the end game in a nice pace.
My initial plan was to enjoy all the dungeons and quests / zones but like some of you already explained to me, the game isn't what it used to be and its all face-roll now. And holy shit it is, people rush through and just steam train everything like elite's are critters and bosses are your everyday enemies.
I made the decision to give my self a good start (friends still play and they are 100), bought the game for 7,5 and spend 20 on a token and got all the looms and holy shit.. i went from 1 to 60 in a weekend?! I still have to buy WoD at some point when I get there.
That old talent tree gives me good memories, that was so cool as you could do whatever the f you want. Of course for serious raiding there were some set choices but still it was fun.
Made a Tauren druid, I like how they revamped the character models and druids are still good fun
Also I'm guessing i'll upgrade my looms to 100 as the token made me about 47k which should be enough to upgrade fully. Whats the best route of upgrading weapons at 100? Because I'll knowing my self I want to get back into raiding asap.
After all this time it still feels great but that kick from having to be careful and not pull to much is a big miss tho.
Guessing this will change at 100 when the harder dungeons come in. Community wise it feels good, made a few fellows during the powering through.
I'f anyone would like to hit me up and do some dungeons this evening my Battle.net TAG is Semper88. Dungeons etc are all cross realm now right?
Sorry for the wall..
My initial plan was to enjoy all the dungeons and quests / zones but like some of you already explained to me, the game isn't what it used to be and its all face-roll now. And holy shit it is, people rush through and just steam train everything like elite's are critters and bosses are your everyday enemies.
I made the decision to give my self a good start (friends still play and they are 100), bought the game for 7,5 and spend 20 on a token and got all the looms and holy shit.. i went from 1 to 60 in a weekend?! I still have to buy WoD at some point when I get there.
That old talent tree gives me good memories, that was so cool as you could do whatever the f you want. Of course for serious raiding there were some set choices but still it was fun.
Made a Tauren druid, I like how they revamped the character models and druids are still good fun
Also I'm guessing i'll upgrade my looms to 100 as the token made me about 47k which should be enough to upgrade fully. Whats the best route of upgrading weapons at 100? Because I'll knowing my self I want to get back into raiding asap.
After all this time it still feels great but that kick from having to be careful and not pull to much is a big miss tho.
Guessing this will change at 100 when the harder dungeons come in. Community wise it feels good, made a few fellows during the powering through.
I'f anyone would like to hit me up and do some dungeons this evening my Battle.net TAG is Semper88. Dungeons etc are all cross realm now right?
Sorry for the wall..
You've made at least two post saying it was bad. Now, all of a sudden, it's not bad? lol does not compute.
jaundicejuice
Member
Did they change something about Dark Moon Faire's Test Your Strength quest? I only started doing the Faire last month since I learned that's where you get some Heirlooms from. Last month I could only earn Grisly Trophies in dungeons but even then it wasn't consistent and I got nothing while questing in PVE. Today, however, that's how I earned all of my grisly trophies and I was over-leveled for the area I was playing through to boot. I made an Alliance toon to go through the Ashenvale-Stone Talon Mountains-South Barrens quest chains to see what it's like for the other side (so far it's just as awesome).
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Still in shock that I got both Firelands mounts in one day.
The pureblood firehawk looks so much better than the purple corrupted one from the meta.
Almost forgot I also got one of the new Tanaan rare mounts as well earlier in the day, though those aren't all that rare.
Almost forgot I also got one of the new Tanaan rare mounts as well earlier in the day, though those aren't all that rare.