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World of Warcraft |OT7| Feel the hatred of 10,000 Murlocs

Tenebrous

Member
I think they're all intended as story devices aren't they? So you get 1 per zone which could explain the 4 at 100. No idea what the 105 one is.

I guess.

It'd be nice if the gains were somewhat higher, but I don't really think spamming the dungeon finder is healthy for the leveling experience, particularly on relevant content. The leveling track is super short on Legion. Is it really that painful to not have every dungeon available right away? I would guess there is a desire to have a bigger pool for normal mode dungeons at level cap.

Why? With scaling, it's not really an issue. Also perhaps it wouldn't be so annoying if the dungeons were a bit more scattered. 100/100, 102, 103, 105, 107, 109, 110/110/110 is more interesting than 100x4, 105, 110x5(+2).

I also want better PvP leveling for my PvP focused toons.
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Why? With scaling, it's not really an issue. Also perhaps it wouldn't be so annoying if the dungeons were a bit more scattered. 100/100, 102, 103, 105, 107, 109, 110/110/110 is more interesting than 100x4, 105, 110x5(+2).
There is no system for dungeons to scale with player level. One of the benefits to pooling a number of these dungeons together is that it prevents a more linear structure where players move from one dungeon to the next, or feel compelled to run a certain dungeon just because they hit a specific level threshold where that's the most efficient XP earner. Heavily incremented level restrictions on dungeons also have a negative impact on players grouping with their friends and promotes a more solo-oriented playstyle because even a small gap in levels can slow progression.
 

Peachpies

Member
There is no system for dungeons to scale with player level. One of the benefits to pooling a number of these dungeons together is that it prevents a more linear structure where players move from one dungeon to the next, or feel compelled to run a certain dungeon just because they hit a specific level threshold where that's the most efficient XP earner. Heavily incremented level restrictions on dungeons also have a negative impact on players grouping with their friends and promotes a more solo-oriented playstyle because even a small gap in levels can slow progression.
Normal dungeons have the same type of level scaling and world mobs do
 
Legion will have 3 raid tiers. That's it.

5 mans will be in each patch. 7.1 will have a new 5 man along with a raid.

Mists of Pandaria is potentially being added to timewalking in Legion.

Timewalker raids are not coming, but are being discussed internally.

The final boss will "100% not be an Orc".

Blizzard says to counter content droughts, is to make sure patches are well paced apart - they're looking to replicate Mists of Pandaria's patch pacing. They also want to release content closer to the end of the expansion.

They will be doing an item squish in patch 8.0.

They're sticking with forcing you to respec in towns only - but they're not removing the inscription item.

Blizzard feels that the secondary stat stacking isn't an issue worth bothering with. Blame the ring for making it so crazy in WoD.
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Normal dungeons have the same type of level scaling and world mobs do
Oh, neat. Then I guess I don't really see the problem. Should there really be more than five dungeons on the leveling path for Legion? There's a greater emphasis placed on having these dungeons be repeatable content at cap, so why wear players out on them?
 

Tenebrous

Member
3 tiers is cool.

MoP timewalking is great.

Oh, neat. Then I guess I don't really see the problem. Should there really be more than five dungeons on the leveling path for Legion? There's a greater emphasis placed on having these dungeons be repeatable content at cap, so why wear players out on them?

Not sure how people doing a wider variety of dungeons while leveling would burn them out any more than doing them over and over at cap. Hell, if you've just 4 dungeons for 100-104 and 5 from there on out, you're more likely to see dungeon farmers get burned out on those handful that are available.
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Not sure how people doing a wider variety of dungeons while leveling would burn them out any more than doing them over and over at cap. Hell, if you've just 4 dungeons for 100-104 and 5 from there on out, you're more likely to see dungeon farmers get burned out on those handful that are available.
Because the intent is to gate or deter players from just doing dungeons non-stop to level through the expansion. People shouldn't be dungeon farming to level up.
 
fuck me medan was made canon i'm done

"the Legion is tethered to something bigger and darker than the Old Gods."

what

what was the point of chronicles if you're going to write out the void lords power already for an even bigger baddy
 

Tenebrous

Member
Because the intent is to gate or deter players from just doing dungeons non-stop to level through the expansion. People shouldn't be dungeon farming to level up.

But if that's what they want to do... In an ideal world, PvP, pet battles, professions, and dungeons are all viable leveling tools IMO.
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
But if that's what they want to do... In an ideal world, PvP, pet battles, professions, and dungeons are all viable leveling tools IMO.
I guess I just don't believe bouncing between dungeons should be a viable way to level, and people being able to do that negatively impacts the game by removing them from the world and dissuading them from professions and world quests. People shouldn't be locking themselves into one system that's far removed from everything else as a leveling method. It's part of what makes the leveling system for old world content so repetitive and linear.

If you want to do dungeons there are still some there when you're leveling up, and once you hit cap there are long progression paths available that should hopefully get players to engage with them regularly. When dungeons are competitive with questing for EXP, dungeons shove out other progression paths because of how the dungeon finder can instantly warp players into action. This was and still is a crippling problem for pre-WoD content.
 

Zelias

Banned
I guess I shouldn't be surprised about Me'dan still being canon. Even with all the strides they're making in Legion, modern Blizzard are still not good storytellers.

3 tiers and more 5-mans is good, but I'm taking Blizzard's patch plans with a lot of salt. They haven't really earned that trust lately.
 

Tenebrous

Member
I guess I just don't believe bouncing between dungeons should be a viable way to level, and people being able to do that negatively impacts the game by removing them from the world and dissuading them from professions and world quests. People shouldn't be locking themselves into one system that's far removed from everything else as a leveling method. It's part of what makes the leveling system for old world content so repetitive and linear.

If you want to do dungeons there are still some there when you're leveling up, and once you hit cap there are long progression paths available that should hopefully get players to engage with them regularly. When dungeons are competitive with questing for EXP, dungeons shove out other progression paths because of how the dungeon finder can instantly warp players into action. This was and still is a crippling problem for pre-WoD content.

I don't disagree entirely, I just think there's a happy middle ground between Detention Block and <1 bar of XP for a completed dungeon.
 

Lanrutcon

Member
You can't even mog artifact off hands.

Blizzard, you want me to get excited about artifacts when they fuck certain specs over? Go fix your shit.
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
I don't disagree entirely, I just think there's a happy middle ground between Detention Block and <1 bar of XP for a completed dungeon.
Yeah, I'm with you in a number of ways probably. If the option is offered and players want to explore a dungeon it shouldn't feel like a waste of time. What are the right number of dungeons to introduce along the leveling path? How can discovering these dungeons and having players pushed towards them be melded with questing out in the world? Even if questing is the intended focus of leveling the dungeons should bleed into that experience occasionally and seem like they're worth running.

This is maybe part of why a limited number of available dungeons being available to those leveling makes sense to me. Players should feel like they've familiarized themselves with the story or area around these dungeons before going in, ideally, but with how the group finder works while leveling you can just find yourself dumped into these completely foreign locations with no real context. The larger that pool of available dungeons is the further removed players can be from them.
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Stat squish next expansion

Kind of funny to hear the weird small group that thought this was going to be the last expansion. For some reason.
 

Robin64

Member
"Patch 7.1 will go on the PTR very quickly around the time that Legion is shipping. It will be released pretty quickly after Legion comes out, containing a mega dungeon."

A what now.
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
"Patch 7.1 will go on the PTR very quickly around the time that Legion is shipping. It will be released pretty quickly after Legion comes out, containing a mega dungeon."

A what now.

My dream idea that I've wanted in WoW forever;

A dungeon that's instanced but is massive containing various rares like Timeless Isle but a dungeon, with more mechanics and instanced as well as with less overall people. Something similar to Blackburrow, Mistmoore, or similar Everquest dungeons




That's not what it is. I'm just saying, that's what I want.
 

Lanrutcon

Member
"Patch 7.1 will go on the PTR very quickly around the time that Legion is shipping. It will be released pretty quickly after Legion comes out, containing a mega dungeon."

A what now.

Filled with Dr. Wily's creations and a number of fiendish jumping puzzles.
 
...dungeons shove out other progression paths because of how the dungeon finder can instantly warp players into action. This was and still is a crippling problem for pre-WoD content.

It's a decade old theme park MMO and the pre-WoD content has not been maintained. If want people to play and re-play PVE, there has to be reasons to go back through it above and beyond experience for leveling. People who want to PVE for Loremaster or RP are doing that already. But even if you relatively enjoy PVE, leveling through the same zones gets old pretty quickly. Plus the old world is a mess lore-wise.

If they're making generic assets for the newer expansions, like all of the updated orc, human, draenei and ogre architecture, or even things like trees and various kinds of vegetation from WoD, those things should be back populated into the 1-60 zones. If the art assets in each zone are referenced, and they should be, a few junior world artists could be tasked with back populating newer assets into older content. Make the old world look new again, make it something people genuinely want to explore.

If they want people to play through the 1-60 zones to completion, they need to start providing reasons for doing so. Like updated transmog rewards, titles for completing certain arcs across x zones. If you complete Eversong Woods and The Ghostlands, you get the Champion or Defender of Silvermoon title. If you complete Westfall and The Deadmines you get a Defias Brotherhood transmog. If you complete Durotan and The Northern Barrens you get some Burning Blade themed weapon transmog. If you complete Stone Talon Mountains as a Horde you get a legit tabbard for Kromgar's Warband. If you play through the western and eastern Plaguelands you some Argent Dawn themed title. Whatever, just think of the arc for the zone and come up with some related transmog or title.

The Dungeon Finder and people using dungeons to level isn't the problem, the un-maintained, stale content is.
 

Kuntz

Member
Professions
There are profession quest lines for every profession in the game, starting at level 100 and going through 110.
There is more content in Legion for professions than there has been in a long time.
It isn't time-gated content like we had in Warlords.
The hope for Warlords was to allow more people to keep up with their professions, as you wouldn't have to work on professions all of the time. It turns out there are people that want to do professions all of the time and those people didn't have stuff to do or stuff to sell, because everyone was able to do it.
In Legion, professions are geared more towards the players that really love getting invested in professions.

That's all I need.
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
The Dungeon Finder and people using dungeons to level isn't the problem, the un-maintained, stale content is.
The dungeons are older and often an even bigger mess than the leveling content though. They are struggling to even find ways to keep casters relevant in low level group content. You go into these low level dungeons and it's rare for it to seem like there are even mechanics. You get stuck in this very repetitive combat loop that you apply to almost every pull. You pop out of the dungeon momentarily, or sometimes not at all, and find yourself thrust right back into repeating that same loop.

Art assets aren't holding people back from leveling through older zones by questing. Travel time between objectives is high for little to no return when weighed against being transported to a dungeon with new quests laid right in front of the player. World of Warcraft's leveling is fundamentally broken from a numbers perspective, which is why we see them finally going in to try and tweak that stuff. They're still far off from setting things on the right course though.
 
R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
Nothing from the Wishpond beta key giveaway yet, though the rules mentioned it could take up to a week for the keys to be sent out.
 

strafer

member
Legion will have 3 raid tiers. That's it.

5 mans will be in each patch. 7.1 will have a new 5 man along with a raid.

Mists of Pandaria is potentially being added to timewalking in Legion.

Timewalker raids are not coming, but are being discussed internally.

The final boss will "100% not be an Orc".

Blizzard says to counter content droughts, is to make sure patches are well paced apart - they're looking to replicate Mists of Pandaria's patch pacing. They also want to release content closer to the end of the expansion.

They will be doing an item squish in patch 8.0.

They're sticking with forcing you to respec in towns only - but they're not removing the inscription item.

Blizzard feels that the secondary stat stacking isn't an issue worth bothering with. Blame the ring for making it so crazy in WoD.

Nice
 

ampere

Member
Stat squish next expansion

Kind of funny to hear the weird small group that thought this was going to be the last expansion. For some reason.

I'm on #teamnosquish now because they're effectively meaningless. All it does is mess with your head for a bit as you adjust to the new numbers

"Patch 7.1 will go on the PTR very quickly around the time that Legion is shipping. It will be released pretty quickly after Legion comes out, containing a mega dungeon."

A what now.

Maybe a 13 or so boss dungeon like Blackrock Depths
 
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