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World of Warcraft |OT9| People still play this? Isn't it from 2004

Mupod

Member
Yeah, I get that, and I get not wanting to grind, absolutely. But it just seems like there's options for pushing up another keystone that would be better than just not running it at all, which is the impression I get from some posts here. Though I'm sure slogging through a crappy +15 and just getting it done is still less time consuming than grinding up a lower keystone and hoping for a different dungeon.

Unrelated edit: NA token prices seem to be stabilizing in the 80-85k range.

well in the last couple weeks my group has done a +15 Teeming Arcway and Necrotic Black Rook Hold. Can't get much worse than that...maybe Tyrannical +15 Eye of Azshara or Halls of Valor would give us pause.

Since the time limit doesn't matter and only the clear does, at worst it'll take a bit over an hour for a real shitfest of a dungeon. That's still less time than building up a second key, and no risk/stress caused by time limits.

Fortified in particular really sucks to play through, but when you're just trying to get the clear it's fine. You can fail forward. In Tyrannical the dungeon itself is much easier and faster but you can get fucked over by boss abilities that Blizzard spent no time testing. Oh boy 6 million damage dark slashes
 

v1perz53

Member
As someone who doesn't run high end mythics, I'm confused. All you guys say "your group's +15 for the week." But doesn't each member of the group have a keystone? Can't you just run up another stone to +15? Or is that not worth the time? Or is there something I completely don't know about keystones at that level?

If you do a 15, the next week your group all starts with 11 keystones. Because 10 and up has 3 affixes, even a really strong group that does +15 won't necessarily breeze through their runs, and even if they did you would need to 2 chest the 11 then 2 chest the 13 to get another +15 stone. Because you get the +15 reward in your order hall chest even if you fail the timer, it is generally not worth doing 2 full extra runs even if your +15 stone is shitty, since you can just go slow and suicide your way through it. Pretty much the only time you wanna get a new stone up is if you end up with a +13 or 14 that is really bad with the current affixes, but once you get the first +15 stone you generally just get it done without concern for the timer.

You really need to install pawn and set up the stat weights in it, and change them around if/when you reach breakpoints.

There isn't a simple answer to this question.

Sim your character. It's a pretty easy process.

It isn't really as simple as simming your character for tanks though, since it depends what you are going for. Haste might be blood's best stat for a patchwerk style single boss, but is it the best stat for AoE tanking trash? If you are doing primarily M+, then trash is much more important than bosses most of the time. Or maybe you are looking to increase your DPS most. And then there are concerns such as ilvl giving more stamina to let you reach a more stable health point for mechanics, or armor being tied to higher ilvl. So for tanks, a singular pawn sim won't help as much as it will for a DPS, and sims aren't the best at deciding stat weights for AoE tanking. But yea, for tanking, you optimally wanna sim stat weights for survivability vs 1 target, multiple targets, and stat weights for DPS ST and AoE, and go with the weights that are most important to you or a mix of the above.

But either way, I do agree that there's no set rule and you just have to sim things and see what is best for your character in its current state. The fact does remain, though, that survivability sims are much less useful than DPS sims. If your optimal "least total damage taken" had you hitting 10% HP every 30 seconds or so, I'm not sure that is a build tanks would choose even if it was the "mathematical best" so tanking weights are a bit less scientific.
 

Lomax

Member
If you do a 15, the next week your group all starts with 11 keystones. Because 10 and up has 3 affixes, even a really strong group that does +15 won't necessarily breeze through their runs, and even if they did you would need to 2 chest the 11 then 2 chest the 13 to get another +15 stone. Because you get the +15 reward in your order hall chest even if you fail the timer, it is generally not worth doing 2 full extra runs even if your +15 stone is shitty, since you can just go slow and suicide your way through it. Pretty much the only time you wanna get a new stone up is if you end up with a +13 or 14 that is really bad with the current affixes, but once you get the first +15 stone you generally just get it done without concern for the timer.

well in the last couple weeks my group has done a +15 Teeming Arcway and Necrotic Black Rook Hold. Can't get much worse than that...maybe Tyrannical +15 Eye of Azshara or Halls of Valor would give us pause.

Since the time limit doesn't matter and only the clear does, at worst it'll take a bit over an hour for a real shitfest of a dungeon. That's still less time than building up a second key, and no risk/stress caused by time limits.

Fortified in particular really sucks to play through, but when you're just trying to get the clear it's fine. You can fail forward. In Tyrannical the dungeon itself is much easier and faster but you can get fucked over by boss abilities that Blizzard spent no time testing. Oh boy 6 million damage dark slashes

That makes sense, thanks. I had gotten the impression people just weren't doing the +15, and that's clearly not the case.
 

v1perz53

Member
well in the last couple weeks my group has done a +15 Teeming Arcway and Necrotic Black Rook Hold. Can't get much worse than that...maybe Tyrannical +15 Eye of Azshara or Halls of Valor would give us pause.

Since the time limit doesn't matter and only the clear does, at worst it'll take a bit over an hour for a real shitfest of a dungeon. That's still less time than building up a second key, and no risk/stress caused by time limits.

Fortified in particular really sucks to play through, but when you're just trying to get the clear it's fine. You can fail forward. In Tyrannical the dungeon itself is much easier and faster but you can get fucked over by boss abilities that Blizzard spent no time testing. Oh boy 6 million damage dark slashes

I find fortified has a bigger effect on clear times overall, but because it is averaged over the trash pulls it seems less frustrating to me than Tyrannical. Tyrannical boss fights are so long that if you do end up wiping for some reason at the end of a boss fight it basically kills your whole run. It also seems Fortified outright breaks less things than Tyrannical does, though improved gear has helped a lot. Honestly, I kind of hate both of the 3rd affixes. I see why they exist, but in some ways I wish we could go back to the days of doing mostly 2 affix runs with the final 1 run being a 3 affix, instead of having to chain 3-4 triple affix dungeons in a row.
 

biaxident

Member
Are your tanks dying, or feeling demoralised because they feel the system doesn't give them much personal reward?

Tanking gear's a rather hard thing to judge; there's a metric that is 'enough', and there's not a *huge* amount to gain through gearing beyond that (although, to be fair, Tank DPS isn't quite as insignificant as it used to be, and that could potentially be a clincher when you're brushing the enrage timer); plus tank deaths aren't *necessarily* the fault of tank gear, it could be healers not having enough throughput or even DPS taking unnecessary damage and in turn distracting healers.

Certainly, at the bleeding edge gearing DPS always comes first, because there's no point where the usefulness of gear to a DPSer stops at 'enough'. However, to get psychological for a moment, at the Normal level of progression, I'd be tempted to argue that that philosophy wouldn't work - when you're pushing server firsts, people have an extra layer of motivation that would make them more receptive to personal sacrifice in the short term for guild victory in the long term. At a slower progression rate, I think you run the risk of the players who don't get rewarded feeling undervalued.

FWIW, there's two other points I ought to make from a personal perspective:

In the *very* specific example of protection paladins, the two-set is great, but the four-set isn't much good unless you have the legendary helm; I don't know if similar situations exist for other tanks.

And in my role as both MT and RL, I'm generally comfortable with passing on gear anyway if there's a net benefit to others in the raid; it sets an example, but it's a decision I'm making in my own right; I frequently say "I'm needing, but I'll pass in favour of anyone else", independent of our underlying loot distribution system. That might ultimately be key, here: Ask your tanks how they feel, whether they feel like they have 'enough', whether they feel squishy (and you might want to co-ordinate that discussion with the healers), and whether they're comfortable with what they're getting.

If *nothing* else, one thing I would suggest in such a discussion is to establish if there are any specific slots they feel are badly lagging behind; while I feel like I have 'enough' in general, I do have a few 865s knocking around that would make a big difference if I could replace them, and they'd be comparatively cheap to replace (because I'd get a noticeable improvement from just a basic Heroic - or even in some cases Normal - upgrade for them, whereas other people who'd be competing with me for that slot might only really see a small improvement in the event that a War- or Titan-forged item drops.

Our warrior tank was having issues with heroic Krosus' Slam. If he didn't have a major CD available he basically died from it. That's part of the reason why he requested some loot changes, but he also said he was 0/6 on bonus rolls returning any loot so that added to it. I think we came to an understanding, that the tanks will let me know when a piece of loot is a crazy good upgrade for them, so it'll go to them over a dps with just a marginal 2% upgrade. Appreciate the reply!
 

Strimei

Member
I hit the achievement for it earlier in the week, but it only just now dawned on me that I have 250 mounts (well, 251). Like, holy shit, how did I get all these? I don't even remember most at this point.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Our warrior tank was having issues with heroic Krosus' Slam. If he didn't have a major CD available he basically died from it. That's part of the reason why he requested some loot changes, but he also said he was 0/6 on bonus rolls returning any loot so that added to it. I think we came to an understanding, that the tanks will let me know when a piece of loot is a crazy good upgrade for them, so it'll go to them over a dps with just a marginal 2% upgrade. Appreciate the reply!

That makes it sound like they're pretty far behind. It's probably a good idea that you're making that change then. I will say those set bonuses look pretty sweet for prot warriors, especially that 2-piece (20% extra crit block chance is nothing to laugh at).
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Man, been running so many CoS for a chance at a Signet of Melandrus. I really hate that place now.
 
Man, been running so many CoS to a chance at a Signet of Melandrus. I really hate that place now.

Ewww. Will need to do that on my warrior eventually if I want to take it more seriously.

In other news, hit 54 in Havoc today. Guess it's time to level Vengeance past 35, cause vendoring the AP isn't worth.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Fucking Fragnance starts playing his Fury Warrior and instantly gets the BiS helmet and a 900 ring with a socket. Dude can't even use two legendaries.

My RNG is shit.
Tvlp6Kz.png
 

v1perz53

Member
I think in general I reasonably like the new (since MoP) talent system, as well as the use of the idea with Honor talents, but there's one aspect of the system that always bothers me, and honor talents have made this way worse. The way these talents work with keybinds is just so awkward and clunky for me. There are some talents and honor talents that, when you take, you really want to have on a prominent bind. Things like Cyclone for druids, or Leg Sweep for monks. But when you don't have this ability talented, you are wasting a good prominent bind. You could hot swap your binds based on talents, but I personally find that messes with my muscle memory too much to be worth it. This gets a bit worse for classes with at least one actively used talent per row that is at least occasionally specced into, where you could have a need for as many as 7 binds if you take the active options, or 7 less binds if you take passives.

And PvP talents are definitely annoying to me, since if you aren't PvPing you can't even use things like your Medallion or some PvP abilities, but they are absolutely crucial to have well bound in PvP. And like I said before, having separate sets of binds for PvP and PvE don't work for me, since it messes with muscle memory and doesn't work for world PvP.

Not a huge issue, but something that has always been a bit annoying about the current talent system. Back when it was first introduced, I had always wanted talent rows to be either all actively used abilities or all passives that modify current abilities, to help with binds, but it seems in Legion they've gone even farther away from this giving almost every row at least one passive for "easier" playstyles, and most rows an active for "min max" playstyles.

Just a minor rant after spending over an hour trying to set up my Druid's 4 spec's binds for PvE and PvP.
 

Lomax

Member
I think in general I reasonably like the new (since MoP) talent system, as well as the use of the idea with Honor talents, but there's one aspect of the system that always bothers me, and honor talents have made this way worse. The way these talents work with keybinds is just so awkward and clunky for me. There are some talents and honor talents that, when you take, you really want to have on a prominent bind. Things like Cyclone for druids, or Leg Sweep for monks. But when you don't have this ability talented, you are wasting a good prominent bind. You could hot swap your binds based on talents, but I personally find that messes with my muscle memory too much to be worth it. This gets a bit worse for classes with at least one actively used talent per row that is at least occasionally specced into, where you could have a need for as many as 7 binds if you take the active options, or 7 less binds if you take passives.

And PvP talents are definitely annoying to me, since if you aren't PvPing you can't even use things like your Medallion or some PvP abilities, but they are absolutely crucial to have well bound in PvP. And like I said before, having separate sets of binds for PvP and PvE don't work for me, since it messes with muscle memory and doesn't work for world PvP.

Not a huge issue, but something that has always been a bit annoying about the current talent system. Back when it was first introduced, I had always wanted talent rows to be either all actively used abilities or all passives that modify current abilities, to help with binds, but it seems in Legion they've gone even farther away from this giving almost every row at least one passive for "easier" playstyles, and most rows an active for "min max" playstyles.

Just a minor rant after spending over an hour trying to set up my Druid's 4 spec's binds for PvE and PvP.

Yeah, I totally agree, and I don't understand why we don't get an entirely separate set of bars to use during PVP, just like different stances and different specs have a new set of bars. It's also stupid that every time I go in and out of the world pvp zones I get notifications about the abilities I gained and lost.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Finished me transmog

Finally finished mine.

dtuOYeH.png


T3Pnj2O.png


The accompanying mount is Headless Horseman's Mount (duh!)
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
-There was a structure/citadel where the Tomb of Sargeras was long before any of the mortal races were there. Old God related, something about a fight between Y'Shaarj and N'Zoth, and N'Zoth actually lost that battle.
-The Knaifu/Xal'atath considers Elune to be an enemy (and upstart)
-There still is a gaping wound for Azeroth below the Tomb (I believe).
-"Soon all will be drenched in its (Azeroth's) lifeblood."
-"Arthas may have sought revenge on the citadel, but I have... other plans." (Bolvar saying this)
-Greymane is pissed Anduin came to the front lines
-Anduin wants to lead from the front lines
-Xal'atath mentions that the circle will be complete soon, echoing both Il'gynoth and the Echo of Medivh

Not a voice line, but the boss description for Kil'jaeden mentions how the fight will alter Azeroth's destiny forever, so...I get the feeling we may see something happen that we don't expect.
I'm guessing they're going to figure out how to actually kill Demons using the Pillars of Creation - as it stands you can't actually kill them.

Chronicle makes it pretty clear that Y'Shaarj was more powerful than all of the other Old Gods of Azeroth too. He's dead because Aman'thul personally killed him and threw his body into space (lol); he didn't kill the other ones because doing that caused a "wound" on the surface that ended up being filled by the original Well of Eternity. The weird part about Chronicle is it makes the Titans seem like bumbling idiots a lot of the time, and really not all that powerful.
 

Strimei

Member
I'm guessing they're going to figure out how to actually kill Demons using the Pillars of Creation - as it stands you can't actually kill them.

Chronicle makes it pretty clear that Y'Shaarj was more powerful than all of the other Old Gods of Azeroth too. He's dead because Aman'thul personally killed him and threw his body into space (lol); he didn't kill the other ones because doing that caused a "wound" on the surface that ended up being filled by the original Well of Eternity. The weird part about Chronicle is it makes the Titans seem like bumbling idiots a lot of the time, and really not all that powerful.

We actually do know how to kill them right now.

Either kill them in the Twisting Nether where they can't reform (since they reform there in the first place) or have a Demon Hunter consume their soul, preventing them from reforming.

As it happens, we fight Kil'jaeden in the Twisting Nether and we have Demon Hunters with us now, so we're pretty set.

There's a Titan facility beneath the Tomb (you see parts of it when fighting the Avatar, he's hooked up into part of it). As Il'gynoth and Xal'atath both talk about opening the way and keys and whatnot, I get the feeling that the facility beneath the Tomb is actually a "lock" on the prisons, and in closing the rift (or trying) that's letting the Legion through, we're going to unlock N'Zoth instead.
 
pmaknO1.jpg


Meh.

With Weight of the Earth though, feels pretty meme if I was gonna continue playing arms.

But the distance to 3rd legendary now hoping to get helm, cloak, or ring, oof.
 

Moff

Member
I just got Kil Jaedens Burning wish, obviously a fantastic trinket but if I replace it with my leg robes I loose so much crit
why the hell are there no other robes around with crit on them
 

mclem

Member
well in the last couple weeks my group has done a +15 Teeming Arcway and Necrotic Black Rook Hold. Can't get much worse than that...maybe Tyrannical +15 Eye of Azshara or Halls of Valor would give us pause.

It's not a +15 (and we're not a +15 Mythic group anyway, not yet, I'm happy to get something in the double figures), but last night did a +10 teeming necrotic tyrannical HOV.

Ouch. Hymdall in particular was hellish.
 

Nokterian

Member
So i did not touch my Demon Hunter after launch and now with 7.1.5 i started playing again, i am level 107 now, it is more fun now since they buffed a lot that was really needed.
 

Tarazet

Member
well in the last couple weeks my group has done a +15 Teeming Arcway and Necrotic Black Rook Hold. Can't get much worse than that...maybe Tyrannical +15 Eye of Azshara or Halls of Valor would give us pause.

Since the time limit doesn't matter and only the clear does, at worst it'll take a bit over an hour for a real shitfest of a dungeon. That's still less time than building up a second key, and no risk/stress caused by time limits.

Fortified in particular really sucks to play through, but when you're just trying to get the clear it's fine. You can fail forward. In Tyrannical the dungeon itself is much easier and faster but you can get fucked over by boss abilities that Blizzard spent no time testing. Oh boy 6 million damage dark slashes

I am staring down a +15 Eye of Azshara with Bolstering/Overflowing/Tyrannical. What would be the main issues with that key?
 

v1perz53

Member
It's not a +15 (and we're not a +15 Mythic group anyway, not yet, I'm happy to get something in the double figures), but last night did a +10 teeming necrotic tyrannical HOV.

Ouch. Hymdall in particular was hellish.

I feel your pain. The first +10 my group ever did back when our gear was lower was that exact combo. Fun times trying to figure out how the hell exactly to reset Necrotic stacks on Tyrannical Hymdall, and it was pre-nerf Hyrja and Skovald, so both Arcing bolts or whatever on Hyrja and the Fel Rush on Skovald were hitting for 90-95% of our HP.

God I hate HoV...

I am staring down a +15 Eye of Azshara with Bolstering/Overflowing/Tyrannical. What would be the main issues with that key?

Yea nothing too bad about that, just make sure to skip any packs that have a bunch of little adds + a big add for bolstering (like the packs with a big giant plus some murlocs) and be very careful not to pull seagulls mid trash pulls, a seagull with 10 stacks of bolstering is fun stuff. Last boss used to be a nightmare on Tyrannical but I think it was toned down a bit?
 

lazygecko

Member
Gonna farm Throne of Thunder LFR for some transmogs I want. I know you can still spend tokens for bonus rolls, but when I went to the horde shrine NPC for that he only offers Warforged Seals. Aren't those only for Siege of Orgrimmar? Where can I get the earlier ones?
 
Gonna farm Throne of Thunder LFR for some transmogs I want. I know you can still spend tokens for bonus rolls, but when I went to the horde shrine NPC for that he only offers Warforged Seals. Aren't those only for Siege of Orgrimmar? Where can I get the earlier ones?

There should be another vendor nearby that offers the other seals

If not try timeless isle they might sell them there?
 
Is it really that bad that people queue as tank or healer and are actually dps for the Valentines Day dungeon? People seem to get upset but I could solo these four guys while asleep at 110
 
Is it really that bad that people queue as tank or healer and are actually dps for the Valentines Day dungeon? People seem to get upset but I could solo these four guys while asleep at 110

No, there's nothing going on there that really requires a role. I don't think I've seen anybody die, and nobody has gotten mad about it in the groups I've been in, but that sounds exactly like something trivial that people would get mad about.

I could switch to Resto and drink. Or not switch and everything is done quicker.
 

Lomax

Member
Is it really that bad that people queue as tank or healer and are actually dps for the Valentines Day dungeon? People seem to get upset but I could solo these four guys while asleep at 110

With proper usage of the neutralizers there's little reason to be prot to tank it, and most of the bitching about "bad tanking" I've seen stems from the fact that people don't know that the third guy just runs around randomly and doesn't really get tanked at all.
 

Lain

Member
Is it really that bad that people queue as tank or healer and are actually dps for the Valentines Day dungeon? People seem to get upset but I could solo these four guys while asleep at 110

I have no issue with that. The only time I've been upset was when I queue'd as tank on an alt and a dps in there was a tank too, so I wasn't able to do my punching-bag job.
 
By the way, if anyone is currently looking for a mythic raiding guild and can fulfill some of the slots my guild has open, we're recruiting.

Short details follow, PM me if interested:

[US] [Horde] [Mal'Ganis]

Progression: 3/10 M Nighthold (Krosus pulls start tomorrow!), 2/3 M ToV, 7/7 M, EN

Schedule: Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, 11:00pm-1:30am CST (server time), and completely optional Sunday funday alt runs at the same time.

Needs:

HIGH: Restoration Shaman

MEDIUM: Non-druid Tank (pref Brewmaster), Mage, DPS Warrior, Boomkin

LOW: Havoc Demon Hunter (need somebody to show me up of course!), Resto Druid

Potentially open to other specs as well, DPS-wise we would probably be more interested in range. Full on Rogues for sure though.

Again, PM if you want further information/details. Totally willing to take alts as well if you can remain committed to them/the raid times.
 
Guildmate made a DH, he dinged 110 Sat and we ran him through normal and heroic EN...he got two legendaries over the course of both runs; not sure if their DH BiS. One is the eye beams and the other are the shoulders I think

wtf

No seriously

wtf

I'll upload screenshots when I get home
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Guildie had a 17 CoS, we did it and the ring dropped for him.

QhyUzBT.png


I can finally stop spamming CoS all day.
 
So do people still drop real money on digital items in this game? I have been sitting on some rare mounts and posted a few times in the B/S/T thread but not much interest at all.

I don't want/need the swift spectral tiger but I destroyed so much of my life farming up for it in game it seems like such a waste to learn it just to shutter my account again. Then again, many argue the whole darn game is a waste ... but seriously I farmed for months with that damn thing on my mind. I feel like a washed up NFL player trying to sell a super bowl ring.
 

vocab

Member
So do people still drop real money on digital items in this game? I have been sitting on some rare mounts and posted a few times in the B/S/T thread but not much interest at all.

I don't want/need the swift spectral tiger but I destroyed so much of my life farming up for it in game it seems like such a waste to learn it just to shutter my account again. Then again, many argue the whole darn game is a waste ... but seriously I farmed for months with that damn thing on my mind. I feel like a washed up NFL player trying to sell a super bowl ring.

Ill take it.
 

LAUGHTREY

Modesty becomes a woman
So do people still drop real money on digital items in this game? I have been sitting on some rare mounts and posted a few times in the B/S/T thread but not much interest at all.

I don't want/need the swift spectral tiger but I destroyed so much of my life farming up for it in game it seems like such a waste to learn it just to shutter my account again. Then again, many argue the whole darn game is a waste ... but seriously I farmed for months with that damn thing on my mind. I feel like a washed up NFL player trying to sell a super bowl ring.

I sold 2m gold for 400 dollars a few months back.

Some people sorta scoff and say i couldve gotten more, but I have a new 1070 and they have a lot of fake video game money so...whatever.
 

Rambaldi

Member
My super casual guild I run downed Nighthold for the first time tonight (on our third week!)

I know this probably isn't impressive to anyone else but I'm a very proud guild dad.
 
Got an 880 warforged pair of legs off normal Gul'Dan tonight, completing my 4pc. Though to take it was about a 7-8% stat downgrade. 4-piece bonus should more than make up for it though I think.
 

mclem

Member
My super casual guild I run downed Nighthold for the first time tonight (on our third week!)

I know this probably isn't impressive to anyone else but I'm a very proud guild dad.

Nah, whatever level you're at, an achievement is an achievement.

We're having our first day of Normal Gul'dan today.
 

Moff

Member
^
Talking about drops like that

I got Arans Relaxed Ruby today, that's like BiS for mages right?
It was up until the latest patch, I had an ilvl 880 ruby for some time. The damage the proc does is insane. But by now I have the legendary and the guldan trinket which were the 2 best on a list I saw a few weeks ago.
 
Gotcha.

Guess Ill save it for M+

And how are frost mages higher than the other specs for single target damage. I simply dont get that @_@

I'm not exactly sure why, but I'm fishing for a Frost legendary right now. Norgannon's is a nice QoL utility, but it's not a straight DPS increase in any way.

But man, balancing the gear for Frost is a bitch. Need to be at 33% shatter cap, as well as have as much haste then vers as possible. Reworking my gear though, especially since I got two piece gloves and chest, I'm only at like 20% crit now, when before I was at like 36% :(

Playstyle is alright. Generally I think Fire might be the most entertaining though. Haven't played Arcane this expansion however, but I don't have any relics for that weapon.
 
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