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Just so I'm clear here....any DoT get 100% bonus, even if it would have a cast time otherwise (eg Imp Corruption)?

I'm not looking to do much PVP, but in case of ganking what classes should a warlock run from? Which ones do I have a heavy advantage against even if my mana/HP is partially depleted? World PVP against a warlock seems like it'd be kind of risky, since they can Fear opponents into mobs...somebody tried to duel me in open world and I got him killed that way.

 

[cubicle47b]

Yeah, any DoT.

If you get ganked by melee before you get death coil (level 42) without the succubus out to seduce you're probably screwed. Warlocks generally win fights by controlling it. Once melee starts hitting you it's hard to get control back without a couple key tools. Unless you're alliance that's probably the only thing I'd worry about too much.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

I've been playing my friends warlock in bgs and I just respecced him to 7 affliction 44 destruction. It's fucking hilarious how powerful the build is. CoE - Immolate - Searing 2-3 times - Conflag - Shadowburn = rapetime.

The reason I respecced was to just get huge ass soul fires, but the build is amazingly strong even without that.

 

[Teknopathetic]

The warlock I'm working on right now (level 25 at the moment), is probably going to be 20/0/31, for Nightfall and Conflagrate, and yeah the damage that build will do is pretty sick.

 

[Fragamemnon]

So our guild killed Fankriss for the first time today and decided to take a stab at Princess Huhuron. All I can say is....HOLY FUCKING NATURE RESIST. That bitch is just nasty <30%.

We're gonna stock up on NR gear this week and drop her next week though. I mean shit, we took her to 21% today with no NR gear at all.

The pre-30% enrage is just a phase where you have to A) keep everyone up and B) ensure that there are enough healers with mana to be able to blitz through the last 30%. If only she was as easy to take down as Vael was (and the two fights are very similar if you compare the entire Vael fight with post-enrage huhu).

 

[Boomer]

0/30/21 = best raiding spec for warlocks.

 

[firex]

yeah, master demonologist is like the best build I can see for pve, and it's not far away from a good pvp build (soul link+ whatever else).

personally I still like SM/ruin though, loads of damage and great overall for dpsing whether that's pvp or pve. But I'm a weird tri-spec, so I'm never high on the damage meters but I've got most of the utility... still, I think I might respec now that I've got +425 damage. some playstyles just "click" with a person and SM/ruin did that for me way back before the "talent review" (aka remove master conjurer and add master demonologist, and make siphon life/conflag usable spells instead of complete jokes, but don't actually rework the million other shitty talents in the trees). another decent build is SM/demonic sacrifice, but if you're used to shadowbolting stuff, it's different. it's more of an alliance lock build too I think, since it relies on dots.

 

[Boomer]

All our warlocks are MD/Ruin. A few days ago we did Geddon->Rag and 4 of the top 5 on the dmg meters were warlocks :lol Granted, our rogues suck.

 

[firex]

SM alone can do a ton of DPS without aggro (vs. MD that is), but it's so far down in the tree that there's no way I'd get it over MD if all I wanted to do was pve (unless I already had 8/8 nemesis raiment).

also, I really recommend NOT going conflag/nightfall. yes, it's what drakedog used in all of his (months old) pvp videos, but without vulnerability bonuses from cos/coe, the burst is decreased. not that I wouldn't go conflag, I just wouldn't go conflag and then get nightfall. I'd say get conflag and go demon, or go 41 destruction and then get imp. corruption and demonic embrace.

actually, wait, since I'm guessing Tre's warlock is horde... go conflag and then go demon, affliction itself is rather weak in BGs due to pallys and cleanse (though it's awesome for destroying mages, rogues, shamans and hunters). drain tanking is a good pvp strategy vs rogues because you'll autoface them, so they can only backstab you after a gouge. affliction is really a good grinding spec (whether you get dark pact or not, and it's not really needed, but I'm just going by a solid spec where you won't respec like 3x on your way to level 40 like that crazy ass post Hero linked) and a good alliance pvp spec since the only dispellers are warlocks with a felhunter and priests. The only bad thing about conflag is if you want to raid, you're pretty much useless for a lot of MC and BWL (most bosses in there are fire resistant or immune, though it doesn't really stop you from spamming shadowbolt).

one other thing I like about SM/ruin for pvp AND pve is you get both reach talents, so all your spells gain 2-5 yds range. but it's definitely going to get you aggro if you've got the time to go all out in a raid fight, or get a lot of shadowbolt crits.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"also, I really recommend NOT going conflag/nightfall. yes, it's what drakedog used in all of his (months old) pvp videos, but without vulnerability bonuses from cos/coe, the burst is decreased. not that I wouldn't go conflag, I just wouldn't go conflag and then get nightfall. I'd say get conflag and go demon, or go 41 destruction and then get imp. corruption and demonic embrace."

I hadn't seen Drakedog's videos at the time. I have now and apparently he's not nightfall/conflag but 5/7/39, which I'm guessing is somewhat close to what you've recommended. Honestly, Outside of DE, nothing up the Demonology tree interests me, but the talents at the base of Affliction up to Nightfall does (much more so).



"actually, wait, since I'm guessing Tre's warlock is horde... go conflag and then go demon, affliction itself is rather weak in BGs due to pallys and cleanse (though it's awesome for destroying mages, rogues, shamans and hunters)."

Yeah, I'm horde and I'm going for conflag for a similar reason, although, I've PvP'd with MrAngryFace and watch his (pure afflict) 'lock destroy alliance .

"drain tanking is a good pvp strategy vs rogues because you'll autoface them, so they can only backstab you after a gouge. affliction is really a good grinding spec (whether you get dark pact or not, and it's not really needed, but I'm just going by a solid spec where you won't respec like 3x on your way to level 40 like that crazy ass post Hero linked) and a good alliance pvp spec since the only dispellers are warlocks with a felhunter and priests."

I was originally moving up the afflict tree first for grinding, but got really bored as it seemed like it was just a really slow grind even if there's little down time. When I respec'd up the dest tree things moved a little faster and I dare say I'm enjoying playing it a lot more even if I do get hit with down time here and there.

"The only bad thing about conflag is if you want to raid, you're pretty much useless for a lot of MC and BWL (most bosses in there are fire resistant or immune, though it doesn't really stop you from spamming shadowbolt)."

Zero interest in raiding.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Destruction is just fine for pve. In MC builds dont matter, in BWL the fights are based more on execution not hardline dps (and caster dps varies insanely from fight to fight), and in AQ you need the hardcore burnination destro provides. Granted, you can probably never just spam searing pain as a shadowbolt, but hey.

I think I'm gonna respec to 21demo/30 destro for huge ass soul fires. There's just something enjoyable about firing off that ball of death. Sucks that the build has little to no defense though.

 

[Hero]

Oh yeah, so far I'm pretty pleased with how my warlock is going. If you play it right, there's basically no downtime for mana/life regaining....aside from a bandage or potion here and there. All the drinking was what turned me off casters (I played an Alliance Druid to 40 as my first character). I did Herbalism/Alchemy, and a lot of the potion buffs/heals seem to help. With the Demon Skin buff and Defense potions, you can take some pretty hard hits.

I'm having trouble getting 1 level per hour, as the guide on the class forums says you should. I'm not sure if it's the places I'm going or the strategy I'm using. The WoW forums people claim you should be taking on 2 fully dotted mobs at a time, but that always seems to turn into a mess for me. Any suggestions as to where I should go as 18-25 Lock? I found some good spots full of casters in the early teens, but lately it's just been a bunch of werewolves near SFK -- maybe that's what is slowing me down.

Noob caster question : How does the +Damage stat work? I got lucky and found a bunch of +Shadow stuff on the AH, but it seems my Shadowbolts do about the same damage either way. For dots does it add damage the full damage per tick (like, +4 every time for a +4 chestpiece), or does it just increase the total damage of the dot? For dots that scale up over time (Curse of Agony), does it add damage consistently on every tick or does the extra damage only come at the end? Does the damage stack on Shadow wands, or should I just use whatever wand has the highest DPS?

The guide is good, however I think this guy overestimated on his calculation times for those levels. No matter how well I was grinded I never got one level an hour, usually had to tack on a few minutes here. I think he might of just done a straight calculation from xp/hour and didn't factor in traveling distance, bandaging, etc. Don't go by time. The best thing is to enjoy yourself.

 

[firex]

yeah, the thing is, when alliance gets more pvp experience/in general playing experience, which I guess happens way more at the 60 bracket, here's basically what happens with affliction if there's a pally around (basically ANY time you're facing a small/moderate group in a BG outside of maybe WSG): corruption, cleansed, immolate, cleansed, etc. so all you can do is coa and nuke.

and I wasn't trying to say fire is bad, cause I personally recommend it for pvp, just that for pure pve, going a conflag spec is basically good for AQ and maybe ZG, but the burst is great in pvp. I'd imagine it'll be good in Naxxramas too, but who knows, Blizzard could make that whole instance full of fire resistant mobs for no damn reason. I do personally prefer affliction for grinding, but I can see how it would get boring to most people. For me, the complete and total lack of downtime meant that I could rapidly clear out a camp of mobs, complete a quest and rush off to the next area, so I leveled up pretty fast (spent like 2-3 weeks of hardcore playing, then took a week off at like level 57 or so and got to 60 in another week). I don't think I could have done that with a destruction build, mostly because of the downtime. but the irony of it is, for the most part your voidwalker can actually be a good tank past level 35ish if you go destro, despite it being a high aggro build. Just let him taunt something 3+ times and unload and it'll be dead before he can reach you... also, if you can clear an area decently and get good at pulling, you can solo practically every world elite quest in the game, whether it's with the vw tanking (early level stuff like pyrewood village) or fear kiting (high level stuff like those giants in azshara/feralas).

 

[MrAngryFace]

I dont know what alliance youve been playing, but on our server the reason Alliance wins 60 is because they outnumber horde in AV at all hours of the day, and they are equipped better since they raid WAY more often.

Ive yet to see a paladin do more than cleanse himself in PVP. The opportunity is there, but its never used except on themselves. I do nothing but WSG so at least on MY server I can say its not the case. Paladins are generally dumb animals that require more than one person to kill.

 

[firex]

that's nice, but wait until you play against a competent alliance group. like I said, when they know how to play (hell, when they have decursive installed, which isn't even really knowing how to play) then get ready to have every dot except for coa cleansed.

 

[speedpop]

Yeah we had one brilliant match in WSG where a female dwarf paladin would shield herself whenever she saw us running up to her. The best part about this? Two times that she did it when I was there, she had the flag.. what happens when a paladin shields itself whilst holding a flag? It drops of course.

So of course what you do is grab the flag then beat the living shit out of the silly paladin for being so incompetent, not once.. but fucking twice.

 

[Teknopathetic]

:lol I've seen that once. I've also seen people try to mount.

 

[border]

So can someone suggest a decent talent progression for Warlocks going from ~20 to 60, that doesn't require me to respec over and over again?

Ive yet to see a paladin do more than cleanse himself in PVP.

No kidding. I guess as a warrior I don't notice dots being wiped but it seems pretty rare that a paladin will do anything but blow all his mana on self-heals, bubbles, and friggin' Hammer of Justice. I rarely see them heal others, much less have the presence of mind to check other party members' debuffs and cleanse dots on teammates. The class seems to attract a lot of self-focused individuals. I imagine it's a different story facing against a guild group, but I wouldn't expect PUG paladins to show any sort of discipline.

 

[Tamanon]

FYI, in 1.11 Innervate is going to be a core Druid ability, the talent is going to be replaced with something else.

Odd, but Feral druids look at least a little more possible endgame.

 

[Screaming_Gremlin]

As Tamanon said.

When patch 1.11 releases, Innervate will become a base ability for all Druids, trainable at level 40. Once the patch is live, any Druid who formerly had the Innervate talent will instead have the "Swiftmend" talent, which has been added to the Druid Restoration tree, replacing Innervate as the 31 point talent. This new ability will consume a Rejuvenation or Regrowth effect to produce an instant heal.

Sounds like swiftmeld might be a healing version of conflagerate.

 

[firex]

So can someone suggest a decent talent progression for Warlocks going from ~20 to 60, that doesn't require me to respec over and over again?

first of all, what have you started with? Affliction really is the fastest/lowest downtime build, so if you've gone pure affliction, I'd guess your talents look something like this:
5/5 imp. corruption
2/2 imp. lifetap
3/5 imp. drain life
1/5 fel concentration OR
1/1 amplify curse

If that's the case, max fel concentration, then get nightfall and grim reach, then amplify curse (if you don't have it), then get siphon life at 30.
Then go over to destruction and get improved shadowbolt 5/5, bane 5/5 (do not get aftermath, it's on par with improved firestone/spellstone for worst warlock talent), shadowburn, 5/5 devastation, 2/2 destructive reach, then either 2/2 intensity or 1/2 improved firebolt (if you're using your imp) and 1 point in something else (2/2 imp. firebolt is worthless, because the global cooldown is still 1.5 seconds so it makes no difference whatsoever on the imp's casting speed), then get ruin. At this point you're level 51 and can go back to affliction for shadow mastery if you prefer.

you could also just go straight affliction to shadow mastery, but I think taking a detour at least up to bane and shadowburn wouldn't hurt. shadowburn isn't a great spell, but you can throw it in to either knock a mob down to fleeing, or kill it before it runs too far.

one note: it's technically a "waste" to keep improved lifetap if you get dark pact, but arguably it's a bigger waste to get dark pact when it's less talent points for imp. lifetap. I personally haven't done this build exactly, I went straight dark pact and then the rest into destruction. But back then siphon life was useless (1.5 sec cast time) so the only way for me to reduce downtime was drain tank and dark pact. I'd imagine drain tank + siphon life is more than enough, especially if you get enough shadow power to make it a significant drain effect coupled with drain life. And nightfall doesn't proc as much as it used to, but it's a minor difference really - you're still going to proc it all the time if you pull with coa (until you get cos), corruption and then drain tank. That's part of why you can skip bane, but you can also get it if you're opening with a shadowbolt.

mathematically speaking, I believe bane is like a constant 17% dps increase with shadowbolt, which is more than MD succubus or SM (shadow mastery, not scarlet monastery!) so that's a big reason to take it. Well, that and it makes soul fire actually useful, and makes immolate a kinda, sorta quick-cast nuke if you really want to blow your mana up.

 

[ToyMachine228]

So any other reccomendations for a crit tracking program similiar to Critline? I can't seem to get it to work.

 

[Ferrio]

Killed Nefarion after the 3rd week of tries today, after the second attempt. Once we got past phase 1 without people dying it was cake.

Snagged me some boots of the shadow flame. http://www.thottbot.com/?i=51944

 

[MrAngryFace]

Ive been PVPing for quite a while and have yet to face a 'good' alliance group where the paladin is content to relegating his entire set of actions to clensing the group of dots. Besides, I drop dots on EVERYONE, id like to see him blow his mana clensing dots on 9 people then being unable to bubble himself like a fuck.

Just cause the option is there doesnt mean it will be used. We can sit here and TALK theory til the cows come home, but ive never seen it happen and ive seen A LOT of pvp on Gilneas.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Ive been PVPing for quite a while and have yet to face a 'good' alliance group where the paladin is content to relegating his entire set of actions to clensing the group of dots. Besides, I drop dots on EVERYONE, id like to see him blow his mana clensing dots on 9 people then being unable to bubble himself like a fuck.

You're lucky then. I know about ten or fifteen paladins I run with that would cleanse each dot literally as it lands, and be at 85% or so mana when you're done (or more, once more AQ40 librams drop). Decursive mod makes the whole task stupidly easy for the dispeller.

Edit for bitching:

Speaking as a Priest who spends a huge amount of time raiding or farming gold/mats to support my raiding, the druid change to innervate are 110% bullshit. The whole raiding paradigm is that any class that can heal or dispel will heal or dispel, given an encounter that is still a reasonable challenge.

Paladins know this all to well and that's why endgame paladins have gear with insane +heal on it so they can be raid spot healers that never run out of mana. The only time I see Paladins even hit a mob on fights that are still a challenge for the raid is to throw of Judgement of Wisdom or Light. Else it's all heal and cleanse, all the time. And they spec for it too, and accept that not going heavy in retribution or protection is a choice they make in order for the raid to be as successful as possible. Once everything is on farm status they can go to whatever spec they want, and they know it.

Priests are in a similar boat, only that a priest that rolled the class and signed up for a raid guild after getting to 60 should pretty much know you're going to be healing and not much else. You spec holy and discipline for extra healing power and endurance, but you usually avoid the damage talents in those trees because hell, you're raiding new content for the guild, so you need all the burst healing and endurance you can get. You don't put any points in Shadow since you pretty much need 31 there to be effective endgame and it really gimps your burst healing and endurance in fights, and you'd never be able to go into Shadowform outside of Molten Bore anyway in a raid environment. Your brand-spanking-new 31 holy talent sucks completely, and higher-end disclipline talents are wasted for raider priests.

I don't know much about the role of a shaman in a raid, but I hear it's pretty much totems and lesser healing wave spam. Sounds like a Paladin, only without the cleanse spam.

Druids have the best talent available to a raid guild doing new content-innervate. Everyone knows in WoW that when all other tactics fail, if you can outheal the encounter you can make up for unrefined tactics, lackluster execution, or inadequate gearing (this is why healers get blamed for wipes). This is less of the case in the latter parts of AQ40 (everything after huhu) but is certainly the case through most of MC and BWL. Druids were EXPECTED to spec for that talent because of its potency and what it brings to a raid. However, unlike the other healing classes, they bitched to all hell and some of them refused to spec for their role like the other healing classes in the raid. Instead they were speccing completely useless-in-raid shit like chicken form (shut up and heal, healer) and full feral (um, we'll let the tanks in might/wrath handle this one. Shut up and heal, healer).

Yeah, fuck that. As a result, they started getting guild kicked after enough 1-5% wipes where an innervate or two might have made the difference, or a fight where half the raid wiped (causing downtime and big repair bills) and refusing to spec it after being asked by the guild and raid leaders to do so. They cried and cried and cried, and Blizzard caved.

Yeah, fuck that. You want the shiny ilvl 75+ epics, you spec for no-to-little PvP or soloing viability and you like it like the rest of the healing classes. Pisses me off to no end that a talent so powerful as innervate-seriously, the shining example of what a 31 pt. talent SHOULD be-is getting whored out to worthless-to-raids ferals and chickens like that, to players that have zero dedication to seeing a raid suceed but want to raid and get easy epics.

So yeah, Druid changes = BS. It's a total cave in and if they wanted to solve the problem for good they would have left innervate alone and told the feral druids and chickens to shut the hell up, never going to happen.

Again, this is all based on content that the guild HAS NOT mastered. Once it's on farm, we'll let you tank it in bear form ffs if that's what you want.

 

[MrAngryFace]

I wouldnt call it lucky when I dont see it on my server, period. Its a goddamned fact. I know you raid types may see paladins use their special skills in other situations, but in PVP its a little bit different on Gilneas.

 

[Fragamemnon]

I wouldnt call it lucky when I dont see it on my server, period. Its a goddamned fact. I know you raid types may see paladins use their special skills in other situations, but in PVP its a little bit different on Gilneas.

Nah, PvP is the same everywhere-lots of retarded retnoob paladins.

Hell, they don't even have to be noobs. One of the worst Paladins I know has a Hand of Ragnaros.

 

[MrAngryFace]

I only have problems with shadowpriests. Rogues sometimes, mostly if I dont have a deathcoil ready or its teknopathic.

Paladins I just fear before they get to that 'bubblezone' where they're most likely to bring it up. Curse of tongues also works if they're already being ganged up on and getting interrupted. the 60% additional cast time does the trick.

 

[Fragamemnon]

I only have problems with shadowpriests. Rogues sometimes, mostly if I dont have a deathcoil ready or its teknopathic.

Paladins I just fear before they get to that 'bubblezone' where they're most likely to bring it up. Curse of tongues also works if they're already being ganged up on and getting interrupted. the 60% additional cast time does the trick.

Warlock is a hard as hell fight for a Paladin, that's for sure. From what I've been told it's pretty much in the warlock's hands-as the Paladin, you just mitigate as much damage as you can and try to whittle them down to a point where you can bring on the paladin burst (stun, judgement of command, holy shock), which is really hard to do since a good warlock controls almost every second of a fight.

 

[Mazre]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=863036&p=1&tmp=1#post863036

Druids are getting innervate as a core ability next patch. Being replaced with swift mending which, looks like a healing version of immolate + conflag. At the least maybe some of the feral gear in AQ40 will finally be put to good use.

Next patch is shaping up with a LOT of interesting changes and features.

 

[Fragamemnon]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=863036&p=1&tmp=1#post863036

Druids are getting innervate as a core ability next patch. Being replaced with swift mending which, looks like a healing version of immolate + conflag. At the least maybe some of the feral gear in AQ40 will finally be put to good use.

Next patch is shaping up with a LOT of interesting changes and features.

Druids already had an instant heal they could spec for, new one isn't needed.
Druids could already get innervate, change wasn't needed.

I know that the druids I grouped with always bid up the AQ40 feral stuff a bit-there was never a ton of them in the raid but it was always healthy competition.

Right now I'm interested to hear what a class that actually kinda sucks at the moment (Mage) gets. The whole druid whining for innervate thing makes me ill, capitulation at its finest and a big FU to the other healing classes.

 

[Teknopathetic]

RogueWhine: I really just wish they'd make it so that resisted rank 1 AoEs won't pull me out of stealth. :/

Also, as someone who PvPs with MAF a lot, I can't help but to agree with his assessment of Pallies on our server. I with just crippling poison on a dagger will slow a group of 4 flag chasers down to a crawl and the paladin will just cleanse himself, forget about his teammates, run ahead, only to get slaughtered by the awaiting interference squad. By time his team mates catch up, they too have run into the interference and our flag carrier's in our Flag room. I've never seen a paladin cleanse his team mate of crippling poison :/.

 

[Tamanon]

So any other reccomendations for a crit tracking program similiar to Critline? I can't seem to get it to work.

I tried it too, but you have to Enable Out of Date Addons to get it to work. Now it works just fine for me.

 

[Fragamemnon]

RogueWhine: I really just wish they'd make it so that resisted rank 1 AoEs won't pull me out of stealth. :/

Holy Nova FTW.

Also, as someone who PvPs with MAF a lot, I can't help but to agree with his assessment of Pallies on our server. I with just crippling poison on a dagger will slow a group of 4 flag chasers down to a crawl and the paladin will just cleanse himself, forget about his teammates, run ahead, only to get slaughtered by the awaiting interference squad. By time his team mates catch up, they too have run into the interference and our flag carrier's in our Flag room. I've never seen a paladin cleanse his team mate of crippling poison :/.

My god, do you play on a server with no addons allowed? I tell people leveling up Paladins to get decursive even if they don't group, you can then put cleanse in some out of the way bar, bind a key to decursive, and hitting it will always cure stuff fast. That way when they do group/raid it will be second nature to see the little icon pop up and spam the cleanse button like a good pally!

 

[Tamanon]

Holy Nova FTW.



My god, do you play on a server with no addons allowed? I tell people leveling up Paladins to get decursive even if they don't group, you can then put cleanse in some out of the way bar, bind a key to decursive, and hitting it will always cure stuff fast. That way when they do group/raid it will be second nature to see the little icon pop up and spam the cleanse button like a good pally!

Excuse me sir, but pallies are a DPS class! No need for Decursive.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Excuse me sir, but pallies are a DPS class! No need for Decursive.

I'm really hoping that they can DPS fulltime in Naxx, at least on the trash and easier bosses. My fiance doesn't dig the CTRA spreadsheet raid healer interface as much as I do and would prefer to beat on things more often if she could get away with it.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Doesn't MAF play pre-60 bgs? That exempts him from the raid players who would be most used to spamming decursive and using teamwork.

 

[pxleyes]

1.10.2 is out.

 

[fallout]

RogueWhine: I really just wish they'd make it so that resisted rank 1 AoEs won't pull me out of stealth. :/

Hey, you think I enjoy standing at a flag casting rank 1 magma totem over and over again for like 30 fucking minutes in AB?

Spoiler

Actually, I was just recently informed that I can't be sapped while in ghost wolf form, so now I really have nothing to do in AB.

 

[Screaming_Gremlin]

I see where MAF is coming from. In pre-60 battlegrounds I imagine most paladins in there have yet to accept that they are cleansebots and still pretend they are dps.

Anyway, I tend not to use dots that often in battlegrounds, and just stick with curse of shadows/elements/tongues. If we are running an assist train on someone they are going to die before the dots do any damage. And I prefer not to put dots on other targets as it can interfer with crowd control.

 

[Hero]

I hate druids, almost as much as I hate hunters. Every single piece of leather that drops almost always one druid in the group will go "Oh, that's an upgrade for my tanking gear." "Dude lemme roll on that for my dps set." "Yay more healing gear." I had a huge fight with one of my guildies because we ran DM west and that +15 agility, +7 defense necklace dropped and he rolled need on it when the whole party had passed on it since we didn't have ML up because it was a guild run. When I said "WTF why did you do that." he goes "This is crap for rogues, I didn't know you were serious when you said you needed." His logic was that + defense doesn't do anything for a rogue, but the retard didn't know that +7 defense is like half a point extra parry (I'm combat swords).

But yeah, I don't understand why Blizzard is letting druids get innervate as a core ability now. I thought the whole point of the druid class was that they could be dps, tank, or healer depending on what spec they got, a sort of jack of all trades class. Why is it that feral druids can do almost as much dps as rogues and still get to have healing abilities that contribute to raids? Let's give all rogues preparation since that would eliminate most of the problems with the class since we're cooldown dependent and replace it with some new healing ability so we can be wanted in endgame raids. Come on Blizz!

 

[Ferrio]

Seriously that necklace wasn't a rogue item man. The druid was in the right there.

And druids can't do as much damage as rogues, or even close to.

 

[MrAngryFace]

I HAVE to play pre-60 battlegrounds until I get my PVP gear cause I WILL NEVER RUN A RAID, EVER. And I cant compete in all greens no matter what my skill when I have to face post 60 alliance who glow like the freaking sun.

So I will continue to play 50-59 tier bgs until Alliance gets good or I get all my PVP gear. Whichever comes first.

 

[cubicle47b]

I'm happy for druids. We had two druids reroll on another server last month because resto is absolutely worthless for anything besides raiding and after a couple months they couldn't stand their characters anymore. Our raid leader leveled a hunter alt to 60 just so she'd have something to grind and PVP with. That's sad.

Hopefully shamans will get mana tide as a core ability in the next patch as well as getting totems completely overhauled.

 

[Fragamemnon]

I'm happy for druids. We had two druids reroll on another server last month because resto is absolutely worthless for anything besides raiding and after a couple months they couldn't stand their characters anymore. Our raid leader leveled a hunter alt to 60 just so she'd have something to grind and PVP with. That's sad.

So? Every priest I know either has to fork out 100g to grind farm or has a farm alt (I have the latter). My point is this-almost EVERY class has an optimal raid spec, and very often that raid spec has a tradeoff for other activities a player would like to engage in. The other classes still have to deal with it, druids get a free ride. It's bullshit.

- Restoration shamen don't have much fun.
- Holy/Disc healbot priests are only fun if you're like me and a complete masochist, used to and comfortable in the role.
- Most of the Holy tree for Paladins does nothing outside of groups and raids. Hell, the entire CLASS is weak outside of groups or raids.
- Thankfully tanks don't have to go all protection nowadays since 31/5/15 is so good. I'm sure they'd rather be 31/20/0 or 20/31/0 though for the UBER DAMAGE.

And those are just some examples. See my point?

And again, you don't have to spec innervate if you're doing stuff on farm status. If you're burning out that bad you should say something to the guild leader and get some special exemption because controlling burnout is more important than anything else when running a guild that's raiding. I wouldn't fault a druid who has been raiding for months take a few weeks and play in chicken form for a while, but when new recruits start parroting things like "innervate is a crutch" and "priests need to learn to manage mana" when you're attempting to outheal a tough new encounter (see my post above), I think a guild warning and subsequent kick is perfectly fair given the ways that other classes gimp themselves for the sake of raiding.

Innervate was a perfect 31 point talent at the end of a very good tree that a lot people didn't like to spec in since it was group and raid oriented, OH NOES NO FUNS. It was fine, it didn't need to be changed, and I know that every class that has to gimp themselves to raid with optimal performance deserves some kind of explanation why Druids get this kind of benefit and they don't.

 

[Hero]

Seriously that necklace wasn't a rogue item man. The druid was in the right there.

And druids can't do as much damage as rogues, or even close to.

Maybe not when the rogue is equipped with Thunderfury, but not all of us have that luxury.

 

[cubicle47b]

My point is this-almost EVERY class has an optimal raid spec, and very often that raid spec has a tradeoff for other activities a player would like to engage in. The other classes still have to deal with it, druids get a free ride. It's bullshit.

I don't think anyone's optimal raid spec should make them hate their class and feel worthless outside of parties / raids. If it's that bad for priests and paladins I feel sorry for you and hope Blizzard can find a way to do something about it.

With the way things are going with druids getting innervate and mages getting evocation as core abilities I have high hopes for mana tide. Even if it means more elemental shamans trying to steal my loot.


The warrior example is exactly what I want. Both our MT's are spec'd 31/5/15, tank extremely well in PVE and kick some serious ass in PVP (one has an untamed blade, the other a drake talon cleaver). They are happy with their characters as everyone should be.

 

[fallout]

Maybe not when the rogue is equipped with Thunderfury, but not all of us have that luxury.

Well, hey, I'm a Shaman and I can out-dps a poorly geared rogue (actually, well-geared Shamans can do insane dps ... but it's not worth it because of the aggro). Heh, unless you're going to match gear, there's no point in complaining.

Also, we're lucky in our PvP guild to have one of the best resto specced druid's I've ever seen (actually, we have a couple, but one's an alt). I've been outnumbered with him a great deal of times and he's so timely with his heals that we can 2v5 sometimes, depending on class matchups. Best thing about it, he loves doing it. Actually, I've PvP'd as a resto specced shaman and it's a shitload of fun. It's so much more involved than PvE healing, because you have to deal with being an immediate target if you're fighting a smart group. Very challenging.

 

[MrAngryFace]

Why havent rankings updated arghghgh Im stuck at work cant check in game.

 

[Hero]

Well, hey, I'm a Shaman and I can out-dps a poorly geared rogue (actually, well-geared Shamans can do insane dps ... but it's not worth it because of the aggro). Heh, unless you're going to match gear, there's no point in complaining.

Also, we're lucky in our PvP guild to have one of the best resto specced druid's I've ever seen (actually, we have a couple, but one's an alt). I've been outnumbered with him a great deal of times and he's so timely with his heals that we can 2v5 sometimes, depending on class matchups. Best thing about it, he loves doing it. Actually, I've PvP'd as a resto specced shaman and it's a shitload of fun. It's so much more involved than PvE healing, because you have to deal with being an immediate target if you're fighting a smart group. Very challenging.

I'm not in a guild that can do MC/BWL/etc since my server is a shitty PVP one so I think I'm very well geared for a rogue of that level. I'm not saying I have to worry about druids ranking higher than me for DPS, however I am saying that considering non-MC druids can do comparable DPS to a rogue and have much more survivability it's beyond my thought on how Blizzard can give druids another buff while rogues continue to be left behind.

I also like how shamans are getting their reviews before rogues. This is simply from a perspective of fighting shamans in BGs and world pvp, but it seems every Shaman I fight just drops down an earthbind totem and the fireball one and runs away from me in a circle while casting frost shock. And if I actually do get them down to low health instant cast heal for the lose. I mean I was critted by a frost shock for 2193 the other day. What's up with that?