Azwethinkweiz
Member
My guild downed Anub'Rekhan for the first time this afternoon. Man I love the fights in Naxx. On to the instructor next week!
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World of Warcraft
- Thread starter Cerebral Palsy
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to sum up all the talk from the last few games.. Shammies are great 1v1 just like druids.. hard to kill if the player is good because the class is so versatile
I have 48 Human Rogue (first char), then 60 Dwarf Priest
60 Orc Hunter, and 52 Tauren druid
Both Paladins and Warlocks are absurd for the time being. I guess maybe it's only partially fair as they both went through tough stretches. At least PvP wise.. Paladin's are walking gods in team games. If they have a nice weapon like Ass-Kandy they are unkillable for the most part. I know a lot of people thing it's a joke for them to have, but it does make them unkillable for the most part if your guild is both PvE/PvP
I have 48 Human Rogue (first char), then 60 Dwarf Priest
60 Orc Hunter, and 52 Tauren druid
Both Paladins and Warlocks are absurd for the time being. I guess maybe it's only partially fair as they both went through tough stretches. At least PvP wise.. Paladin's are walking gods in team games. If they have a nice weapon like Ass-Kandy they are unkillable for the most part. I know a lot of people thing it's a joke for them to have, but it does make them unkillable for the most part if your guild is both PvE/PvP
cubicle47b
Member
You're more of an idiot than anything else.
And because I like Hero so much...
QQ some more
Mage = advantage in PVE
Warlock = advantage in PVP
I doubt you'd be able to find more than 2-3 GAFers on a single server. Everyone is split up, and even if they were together there isn't much point in joining a server with a friend that's more than 10-20 levels above you....there's nothing you can really do together, except beg your superior friend for help with quests (which gets kind of annoying if you're the one at a higher level).Nutter said:
For better or for worse, the game makes it pretty difficult to effectively play with people that you knew before you started WoW. You pretty much have to make your own set of new buddies once you join in.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
MrCheez said:
He has to do something during his lengthening BG queue times.
cubicle47b said:
The shaman response is becoming beyond laughable. WF was overpowered to begin with and needed to be dealt with. Horde are going way over board on this and it's getting out of hand. The nerf isn't something that is going to be chagned, so it has to be dealt with. I know shamans never get nerfs, but this is what it feels like. You get used to it and before you know it, it is back to normal playing like nothing changed. The only ones who should complain are the other horde classes, but when yo uhad such an overpowered ability slapped on you in raids like, it does need to be brought back for faction balance as well as just damage balance.
cubicle47b
Member
I'm a horde warlock (on a PVE server)...
Oh, faction and damage balance? Alliance rogues on Patchwerk sustaining slightly over 700 DPS compared to equally geared horde rogues with windfury topping out around 600 DPS. Is this balance?
Windfury burst damage may be overpowered in PVP (this wasn't a nerf to shaman windfury use BTW, as all of their attacks including stormstrike are white damage) but they nerfed it and outright said they weren't going to make up for it which is a straight up PVE nerf. The imbalance you see above only gets worse.
Do you still not get it?
Dude, when you say stuff like this, it just weakens your position.pxleyes said:
The last shaman review nerfed Windfury Weapon. Before 1.11, Windfury Weapon Rank 4 read like this: "Each hit has a 20% chance of granting you 2 extra attacks with 665 extra melee attack power." Now with 1.11, it reads like this. "Each hit has a 20% chance of granting you 2 extra attacks with 333 extra melee attack power." They cut the attack power bonus IN HALF.
I remember when the Warrior Enrage bonus was cut from 40% to 25%. Man, that got ugly.
And now that 1.12 is bringing yet another nerf to a shaman ability, I'm hoping you can understand why they're feeling just a tad upset.
EDIT: My guess is, Blizzard is at war with "burst damage" - they nerfed the ZHC from +280 to +200, they reduced Arcane Power to 30% from 35% and made sure it didn't stack with Power Infusion. The next thing to "fix" was anything that granted extra attacks - Sword Spec, Windfury, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if every Hand of Justice suddenly disappeared one day.
ToyMachine228
Member
tehjaybo said:
Jayceon, 60 Rogue in Order of Blinding Light.
And I'm still stuck on Maladath...Do I want it? I don't know. Most of your damage comes from your main-hand, and Brutality Blade's stats are better for that philosophy, yet Maladath is faster, and would proc sword spec more, but I still don't know. It's a tough decision.
cubicle47b said:
You haven't stated WHY alliance would get a damage increase like that. If you are talking about BoK, that would only account for 60 dps of that increase. Your math is off with alliance specific buffs.
And explodet, I do NOT understand why they are that upset (shamans I mean). I can see why their buddies are upset, but shamans have gotten so little in the way of nerfs that they dont even know how it feels. They are so spoiled by Blizzard since day 1, and they expect so much.
The funniest thing to me, at least, is that the outcry will get them no where. Classes bitch every time their class gets a nerf, and Blizzard usually just laughs in their face. Basically, if Shamans understand that, then they are jsut bitching for bitching's sake without any resolution they are happy with.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
welp, so far my guild has downed anub and instructor.
attempted patchwork once then was like, eh **** that, gonna come back to him later.
noth is up next.
trash mobs in abomination wing are ****in RETARDED
attempted patchwork once then was like, eh **** that, gonna come back to him later.
noth is up next.
trash mobs in abomination wing are ****in RETARDED
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
Mute said:
oh, had to reply to this.
this is a completely backwards statement.
shamans rule in wsg while paladins rule in ab.
shamans run wsg cause of purge instant shocks and slowing totems.
they give horde a second way of getting rid of faps, they kill fast (which is really important in wsg) and multiple ways of snaring an opponent (very important in wsg), and they also make decent flag runners.
Paladins make good supporters and flag runners in wsg, but at the end of the day Shaman > paladins in wsg. Ive played level 60 end game geared wsg on both sides of the fence. I know.
Paladins rule AB because, as someone else already stated, they can hold a node by themselves for a long period of thier time (if they are decent), and even longer if they are really good, which gives other teammates time to get to them and help defend the node.
Ab is about Outlasting your opponent, which Paladins are kings at.
cubicle47b
Member
This nerf doesn't affect shamans themselves, it affects horde warriors and rogues. It's not a class nerf, it's a faction nerf. And again, it's fine if they nerf burst damage but they're not compensating for this loss of PVE damage in any way and Eyonix has stated they have no plans to.
I didn't do the math, I was using damage meters from pretty much optimally geared players on both sides to see the horde/alliance difference. Not the best idea since player skill and latency make a big difference so here's an alliance rogue (who averaged 669 DPS on Patchwerk) comparing horde/alliance buffs.
Under his model BoK+BoM only wins by 19 DPS but it still wins and you don't see BoK+BoM getting nerfed.
His damage meter -
I didn't do the math, I was using damage meters from pretty much optimally geared players on both sides to see the horde/alliance difference. Not the best idea since player skill and latency make a big difference so here's an alliance rogue (who averaged 669 DPS on Patchwerk) comparing horde/alliance buffs.
Under his model BoK+BoM only wins by 19 DPS but it still wins and you don't see BoK+BoM getting nerfed.
His damage meter -
seriously i dont know how much you guys have participated in high lvl group pvp
but paladin's are the best pvp healers in the game, bar none
in wsg they are OP
blessing of freedom, bubbles, lay on hands, try killing a flag carrier with 2 paladins heal botting him
in AB they are prolly the best class at defending nodes, so w/e
but paladin's are the best pvp healers in the game, bar none
in wsg they are OP
blessing of freedom, bubbles, lay on hands, try killing a flag carrier with 2 paladins heal botting him
in AB they are prolly the best class at defending nodes, so w/e
If you're not going to give me examples of why you think shaman are coddled by Blizzard, then there's not going to be much of an argument. It's just contradiction. You'll have to do better than that to convince me.pxleyes said:
Lately shaman are the ones that feel like little attention is being paid to them. The shaman review did very little to modify raid viability (5 paladins can buff 40 players while 5 shaman can still only buff 25; Blessing of Kings got moved from a 31 point talent to a 11 point talent, while Mana Tide is still a 31 point talent), the windfury weapon nerf, and they had to share it with mages, while paladins got their own review.
And back at the start of 1.10 totems were being affected by AOE attacks when they shouldn't have. Ragnaros' AOE was removing totems when it shouldn't have. (how would the alliance feel if Ragnaros started mass purging blessings off every player like Garr does?) Shamans everywhere thought to themselves: "Did anyone at Blizzard even BOTHER to run a Horde raid and test this?" Also, AQ boss fights were heavily skewed towards alliance because of the mobility of the players and the stationary nature of totems. That's kinda where it started, and it snowballed from there.
I didn't want to bring up the whole shamans vs. paladins debate, but let's face it. When we talk about the end game, the primary differences of raids between the two factions are the buff systems of the shaman and paladin. Take a 40-man raid with only 7 classes (no shaman or paladins) and you're not going to get much of a difference in experience - except for Fear Ward, and any warrior worth his or her salt should know how to stance dance just in case there are no dwarf priests in the raid. So when you talk about the differences between Alliance and Horde, you HAVE to talk about Shamans vs. Paladins.
There's also the population imbalance issue, but I think we covered that earlier.
Sooooo.... yeah. I probably typed way too much on that, but it's Sunday, it's hot out, and I had to do something before Blackwing Lair tonight.
****ing Nefarian class call...
Maybe Windfury will now only trigger off Nef's regular attacks too
Our guild made it's first real effort on Rags today, got him down to ONE PERCENT before the second submerge. And we would've had him too but one warlock went down and they were on Curse of Elements duty....and none of the others picked up the slack. Then while reforming we had an accidental wipe due to a rogue getting to close. Got him down to 1% again, which was a shocker because he killed both the MT and OT within about 30 seconds of emerging again. One final attempt we just didn't have the supplies to last through, but I know we'll get him next week. I was just glad we finally one shotted Domo's crew, hehe.
Our guild made it's first real effort on Rags today, got him down to ONE PERCENT before the second submerge. And we would've had him too but one warlock went down and they were on Curse of Elements duty....and none of the others picked up the slack. Then while reforming we had an accidental wipe due to a rogue getting to close. Got him down to 1% again, which was a shocker because he killed both the MT and OT within about 30 seconds of emerging again. One final attempt we just didn't have the supplies to last through, but I know we'll get him next week. I was just glad we finally one shotted Domo's crew, hehe.
explodet said:
This is one thing that Horde just dont understand. Paladins and Shamans are NOT designed, or itended, to be anywhere near alike. They are both support classes, yes, but one if offensive while one is defensive. The paladin being offensive (plate is example of that), and shamans are defensive (the ability to offer group buffs while being out of the range of the buff such as FR). The idea that paladins and shamans should be able to do each thing equally is just absurd. It has never been intended that way. If you cant accept that, then you shouldn't have picked that side to begin with. That is to say, if you dont like the playstyle in raids of shamans (and you raid) then you shouldn't have made the decision to roll that class to begin with. I will also still hold that the ability of WF totem was overpowered and needed a nerf, especially for group pvp.The excuse that it may bring your dps back down in raids is not reason enough to justify its overpowered-ness in pvp.
You cant have it both ways, and something has to give. If you dont like it, then fine, but offer something up beyond saying that it is uncalled for when it is easily justified.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I always saw it the other way around with Windfury and Frost Shock making Shaman offensive monsters while Paladins don't have a ranged attack or consistent DPS at all, but they do have bubbles. Perfect for defense.pxleyes said:
Teknopathetic
Member
"I always saw it the other way around with Windfury and Frost Shock making Shaman offensive monsters while Paladins don't have a ranged attack or consistent DPS at all, but they do have bubbles. Perfect for defense."
Yeah, saying the opposite (Paladins are offensive) is a very odd viewpoint.
Yeah, saying the opposite (Paladins are offensive) is a very odd viewpoint.
Alright, I started 2 characters.
-Human / Paladin
-Night Elf / Druid?
Now a question; is there any extra charges for having a second character?(same server)
So far enjoying both, just roaming around at the starting places for each and still getting into the game.
And i think my bro will just take over the one i decide not to continue.
-Human / Paladin
-Night Elf / Druid?
Now a question; is there any extra charges for having a second character?(same server)
So far enjoying both, just roaming around at the starting places for each and still getting into the game.
And i think my bro will just take over the one i decide not to continue.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
yacobod said:
Plate Trains, as I call them. 1 Warrior in bigtime tanking gear with flag, 1-2 warrior on piercing howl duty, 2-3 pallies on heal duty. Druids fast? Druids can die, too.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
I know, I hope he just got the words "offense" and "defensive" mixed up while typing there...
Sirpopopop
Member
The Horde faction nerf finally broke me.
I play the game to raid and the class I chose was a shaman. Honestly, I already feel pretty gimp in raids as is so why bother continuing... the faction nerf (windfury totem) was simply killer.
I play the game to raid and the class I chose was a shaman. Honestly, I already feel pretty gimp in raids as is so why bother continuing... the faction nerf (windfury totem) was simply killer.
Teknopathetic
Member
To be honest, even though this nerf has nothing to do with me, I'm also going to quit shortly. I've seen all the game has to offer that I want to see.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I think just about everyone feels this way. Everyone's just waiting for the expansion hoping for a real end-game.Teknopathetic said:
To be honest, even though this nerf has nothing to do with me, I'm also going to quit shortly. I've seen all the game has to offer that I want to see.
Teknopathetic
Member
"I think just about everyone feels this way. Everyone's just waiting for the expansion hoping for a real end-game."
Well, it's not just new content, I think I've just ran out of gas with the entire game (as a whole, like down to the very mechanics).
Well, it's not just new content, I think I've just ran out of gas with the entire game (as a whole, like down to the very mechanics).
Nah...you're just being a dick about the entire situation...people have said numerous times that this nerf is yet another inch in the growing gap Blizzard is placing between the raid viability of the factions, and someone (I believe it was you) said to buck up or stop playing...now when they say they will they're emo?
oh, and shammies are offensive and pallies are defensive...you got those swapped earlier
oh, and shammies are offensive and pallies are defensive...you got those swapped earlier
Gattsu25 said:
I am not being a dick. You guys are being completely unreasonable and you aren't seeing why it was nerfed. You dont acknowledge that it was over-powered, and when it does get nerfed, you offer up no other solution than "we are useless, I am quitting."
Shaman raid viability is the only thing that has really changed. I talked to a few people I know in high end-game horde guilds, and they bring only a couple of shamans now as is. They seem to think they are more of a burden than an asset. So I really dont think this patch will do much in the way of hurting the horde as a whole, but maybe the ability for a shaman to claim why he should be allowed in a raid.
Teknopathetic
Member
Pxleyes, for the first time in this thread, describe how shamans are overpowered, specifically. More specifically, in end-game raid usefulness, since that's what this nerf affects, I guess.
You haven't said how Shamans are overpowered yet and, quite frankly, you just look like a tool at the moment.
You haven't said how Shamans are overpowered yet and, quite frankly, you just look like a tool at the moment.
Wow. How many times must this be explained. This is not a shaman nerf. Maybe you just don't understand the class, but we have our own windfury weapon buff. And believe it or not, but we don't have things like mortal strike and sinister strike, so this isn't a shaman nerf. It does not directly affect us or the Alliance at all. It affects Horde raiding guilds. That's it. Again, this is not a shaman nerf.pxleyes said:
I think your problem is that you see windfury and you think: NERF! You're probably not aware of this, but mathematically (before the patch), rockbiter was almost as good or better, depending on the weapon you used, than windfury. Strangely enough, I've never seen anyone complain about rockbiter. Why? Because burst damage scares the shit out of people, makes them give up, then run crying to the class forums.
I find this interesting, as I rarely lose to rogues, even ones that outgear me. Normally I just quickswap into a 1h/shield and keep earthbind and poison cleansing down, then flameshock them for the DoT. Granted, I know there are a lot of pretty bad rogues out there (on both sides, ugh).Ferrio said:
Every class takes nerfs and keeps going. Maybe some of the shamans on this board really do just need to buck up and take it with a grain of salt.
EDIT: I know, I know. Faction nerf not shaman nerf. But close to same difference. It's a shaman nerf that affects others more than themselves.
EDIT: I know, I know. Faction nerf not shaman nerf. But close to same difference. It's a shaman nerf that affects others more than themselves.
Teknopathetic
Member
"I'd so trade BoK or BoM for WIndfury."
Not anymore you wouldn't.
Not anymore you wouldn't.
Teknopathetic said:
Blizzard said it right to you guys in regards to this specific nerf:
" The change to the Windfury Totem for patch 1.12 was implemented because we felt the burst damage of all melee characters under its effect was too high. Even once the change is live, the Windfury Totem will still have great potential in providing substantial improvement to the overall dps of a group."
While you wont like my answer, it was EXTREMELY over-powered in PVP for that very reason he said. The change (at least half of it) is spread across every class on both factions by changing the way extra attacks are calculated (so you dont get proc on proc on proc).
But you can see why the hordies are complaining, can't you? Overall alliance raid DPS is already higher than horde raid DPS, and now it's going to be even lower. Ideally they should be equal, so that progression among the two factions is equal.
You may think it's not much of a nerf, but it's a large psychological one. Call them emo if you want. Mocking the other side won't convince them of your point of view.
I guess this isn't going to be resolved - I'm talking about PvE progression while you keep bringing back the PvP aspect.
EDIT: I think we should be asking - what moronic warriors Hamstring-spams during PvP?
You may think it's not much of a nerf, but it's a large psychological one. Call them emo if you want. Mocking the other side won't convince them of your point of view.
I guess this isn't going to be resolved - I'm talking about PvE progression while you keep bringing back the PvP aspect.
So does your guild have it, yes or no?pxleyes said:
Eh, to be fair, I played totem bitch to a bunch of warriors in PvP - I'd drop windfury for them while they took out everyone in their path, and healed through the magic damage. Then the alliance started targeting me first and I dropped like a rock.fallout said:
EDIT: I think we should be asking - what moronic warriors Hamstring-spams during PvP?
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