krypt0nian
Banned
Ferrio said:
Thanks. Sounds mostly good but nothing to really up their higher level group viability IMO. Perhaps its still being worked on. =|
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World of Warcraft
- Thread starter Cerebral Palsy
- Start date
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Thanks. Sounds mostly good but nothing to really up their higher level group viability IMO. Perhaps its still being worked on. =|
If your rogues, mages and hunters are beeing out dpsed by arms/fury warriors, they need to learn to play.
The class with the best itemization in the game, that is the most cherished by blizz and has the widest possible array of playing is the paladin, closely followed by hunters. But what's the point of saying that uh? Believe what you want.
How many Ashkandies, Dark Edge of Insanity or Kalimdor's revenge do you have on your server? A handfull. Now tell me, how many mages have TOEP and COTFL? Oh yeah.. pretty much all of them.
Thank you for coming.
The class with the best itemization in the game, that is the most cherished by blizz and has the widest possible array of playing is the paladin, closely followed by hunters. But what's the point of saying that uh? Believe what you want.
How many Ashkandies, Dark Edge of Insanity or Kalimdor's revenge do you have on your server? A handfull. Now tell me, how many mages have TOEP and COTFL? Oh yeah.. pretty much all of them.
Thank you for coming.
Azwethinkweiz
Member
I bet there's more Ashkandis/Rag Hammers/Dark Edge of Insanities on any given server than there are Ash xbows. Yeah, I'm using 3 different weapons for warriors compared to 1 weapon for hunters, but that's how it works when you have multiple end game weapons to choose from and we only have one end game bow to choose from. But we have better itemization, right? Right.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Then stop waiting in queues.Joe said:
ah yes, the "learn to play" argument. when you can't use statistics because it would show the ridiculously unbalanced dps itemization in favor of warriors (1 weapon > full set of caster armor for dps, when you already have the highest HP and the most armor), just say "learn to play." it gets more points with all the retarded kids playing this game off mommy and daddy's credit card.Fularu said:
how does a TOEP, which is a cooldown trinket, compare to the always on, much more sustainable dps granted by even the weaker weapons you chose to ignore in my post, like OEB/zin'rohk, UTB, or bonereaver's? I guess being able to sometimes do comparable dps for 15 seconds every couple minutes, while wearing much worse armor that will get you one or two shotted if you pull aggro, is better than the far more sustainable and superior raw dps of warriors/rogues/hunters. It's just a fact, you do any instance beyond BWL and dps breaks down between warriors/hunters/rogues depending upon who's got the best gear. That doesn't address the critical flaw of warriors, which is why they're blizzard's golden child, though - potential for the best armor and the best damage. show me another class that can easily top dps and then when you get to the boss, itemrack and go crit immune and tank the boss no problem. so yes, warriors need a dps nerf, and I hope the rage generation fix does it.
*snarky comment here to make me as cool as the oh-so-witty raidtard whiniors*
ZombieSupaStar
Member
Im taking a break from this game....
The initial journey of playing it 2 years ago when every new zone was fresh, and most of the game seemed unknown, was awesome. However when I got to 60 I did not feel like sitting in raids twice a week, for 5 hours each time. And the only other option is playing BGs which take even more grinding if you ever want to hit 14.
I think ill play the xp when it comes and get to 70 and then the same complaints will resurface.
I mean really I'm
-Casual
-Dislikes Raiding
-Doesnt want to play more than 3 hours at a time
WoW really doesnt have a spot for you endgame if this is your playstyle (even though they do during 1-59).
World of Raidcraft 1
Zombie 0
The initial journey of playing it 2 years ago when every new zone was fresh, and most of the game seemed unknown, was awesome. However when I got to 60 I did not feel like sitting in raids twice a week, for 5 hours each time. And the only other option is playing BGs which take even more grinding if you ever want to hit 14.
I think ill play the xp when it comes and get to 70 and then the same complaints will resurface.
I mean really I'm
-Casual
-Dislikes Raiding
-Doesnt want to play more than 3 hours at a time
WoW really doesnt have a spot for you endgame if this is your playstyle (even though they do during 1-59).
World of Raidcraft 1
Zombie 0
Never will an Arms warrior (the kind that uses the weapons you are listing) should EVER be able to touch rogues/hunters/mages in a raid.
Even moreso an arms warrior with OEB, BRE, ZDW or even UTB. I stand by my statement, your DPS classes should learn to not : Idle, auto-atack, auto-shot.
In our raids (and yes, we are BWL geared) rogues, mages and hunters always come on top. Not because our warriors aren't working at making DPS, but simply because of the nature of the fights, those people can pour out much much much more of it.
Yes in PVP warriors will do insane amount of damage with the proper weapon set, but again, the people with a BRE (it used to suck so bad that blizz had to upgrade it), an Ahscandy or hell, the current best 2h axe in the game, a Dark Edge of Insanity are very few and far between, while, as I said, trinket mages in PVP are the norm. Also no other class but casters has SO MANY ARMOR with +spell damage, +crit and +hit. And you're talking about itemization?
And lastly, once you start AQ (if you haven't) and naxx, you'll see that you need tanks, not DPS warriors (or very very few of them).
And lastly, we're so much Blizz's Golden child that we had to CRASH a server in order for our class to even be remotely playable.
Even moreso an arms warrior with OEB, BRE, ZDW or even UTB. I stand by my statement, your DPS classes should learn to not : Idle, auto-atack, auto-shot.
In our raids (and yes, we are BWL geared) rogues, mages and hunters always come on top. Not because our warriors aren't working at making DPS, but simply because of the nature of the fights, those people can pour out much much much more of it.
Yes in PVP warriors will do insane amount of damage with the proper weapon set, but again, the people with a BRE (it used to suck so bad that blizz had to upgrade it), an Ahscandy or hell, the current best 2h axe in the game, a Dark Edge of Insanity are very few and far between, while, as I said, trinket mages in PVP are the norm. Also no other class but casters has SO MANY ARMOR with +spell damage, +crit and +hit. And you're talking about itemization?
And lastly, once you start AQ (if you haven't) and naxx, you'll see that you need tanks, not DPS warriors (or very very few of them).
And lastly, we're so much Blizz's Golden child that we had to CRASH a server in order for our class to even be remotely playable.
Are you alliance or horde, fularu? On the horde side warriors get a *lot* more DPS if they've got a shaman following them around for windfury. In my raid we've got 2 warriors with high warlord weapons doing the most damage. One is arms, one is fury. The fury one dies all the time though because he can't control his aggro, haw haw.
yes, first of all I'm a horde raider, so warriors getting high on the dps meters is probably a result of WF totem. It's ridiculous the gaps they have between everyone else, and we basically have 1 UTB, a few zin'rohks, an edge of chaos, and a bonereaver's for the dps warriors (though we also have one crazy ass fury warrior who has the mace from ossirian and the unyielding strength axe, and his dps is pretty sick). And my guild's on AQ, though only up to princess huhuran. I know that the further you get into AQ, the more useful prot warriors are. That doesn't change the fact that even the supposed pvp/solo MS spec can blow away caster dps and keep up with rogue/hunter dps. Blizzard has a hardon for melee gear, while they've ****ed up caster gear from the very beginning by making int/spirit worthless for all serious purposes for a mage/warlock, and putting a million stupid qualifiers into damage gear for casters. qualifiers like "yes, you'll get the actual damage amount listed... if you cast a 3.5 second spell, or it will be divided by the number of ticks in your DOT." Once I get my enchants done, I'll have +510 shadow damage on my warlock. But even with all that damage, rogues/hunters/warriors will do WAY more dps unless it's twin emps or ragnaros.
All I'm saying is, horde-side (at least until the expansion), warriors do so much more dps that it puts them on par with pure dps classes. It's fine in pvp, but in pve it's ridiculous that the tank class does so much more dps than mages/locks when that's all we bring to a raid. That's why I'm hoping the new rage generation formula keeps warriors from having that incredibly high sustainable dps.
All I'm saying is, horde-side (at least until the expansion), warriors do so much more dps that it puts them on par with pure dps classes. It's fine in pvp, but in pve it's ridiculous that the tank class does so much more dps than mages/locks when that's all we bring to a raid. That's why I'm hoping the new rage generation formula keeps warriors from having that incredibly high sustainable dps.
teacupcopter
Banned
How do Hunters have great itemization? Forgetting PvP for now, you're basically aiming for one thing- the awesome bow at the end of the game, and more agility and crit chances.
Warriors can go tanking or DPS, and do them quite effectively.
The main thing is that every other class has competition at end game. Hunters, Rogues, mages, warlocks... DPS
Paladins, Priests, Druids, to a lesser extent shamans... healing
Buffs and that jazz... you've got your pallys and shamans, plus the other people dropping stuff down (locks with stam buff off of imp, etc)
But who competes with a warrior? The warrior owns the tanking field. There is only one class to do this in end game instances and end game raids. Unless a bear druid (maybe pally or shaman specced + geared properly?) is overgeared for the instance comes along, warriors are the only options. In the end game instances this means you take some DPS, a healer and a warrior, when in actual fact they should tweak either druids or pallys or shamans to be able to tank effectively at end game, not as good as warriors (just like no-one can really outheal a priest, although druids can give a run for their money but whatever)... but still.
Warriors can go tanking or DPS, and do them quite effectively.
The main thing is that every other class has competition at end game. Hunters, Rogues, mages, warlocks... DPS
Paladins, Priests, Druids, to a lesser extent shamans... healing
Buffs and that jazz... you've got your pallys and shamans, plus the other people dropping stuff down (locks with stam buff off of imp, etc)
But who competes with a warrior? The warrior owns the tanking field. There is only one class to do this in end game instances and end game raids. Unless a bear druid (maybe pally or shaman specced + geared properly?) is overgeared for the instance comes along, warriors are the only options. In the end game instances this means you take some DPS, a healer and a warrior, when in actual fact they should tweak either druids or pallys or shamans to be able to tank effectively at end game, not as good as warriors (just like no-one can really outheal a priest, although druids can give a run for their money but whatever)... but still.
Fragamemnon
Member
Not really. The biggest thing that protection brings to the table when it's spec'd more than just five or ten points is hate generation and some very slight mitigation. The last three fights in AQ need two good tanks for the emps (but protection isn't really needed, as the extra proximity aggro works to their favor), a few people with just shields for Ouro (where if you do it right, protection is actually a *detriment*), and C'thun, who has no real threat at all that's worth mentioning outside of the phase 2 tentacles.
Naxx is where you start needing more than two decently geared tanks, and where the bonus threat generation in protection starts to matter more. Noth, for example, aggro wipes constantly and you need at least four good tanks for the encounter. The extra amror talent is really handy for Patchwerk offtanks, as well.
The only other thing your tanks need at that point is decent FR to tank Vael and "stay in" on Firemaw if they are eating the buffets, assuming you're still doing BWL (and most guilds, even the uber Naxx ones, still are because it's fast & easy at that point).
Son of Godzilla
Banned
firex said:
No. Why would anyone even bring DPS warriors then? For most things you can get by using bears when more than two-three warriors are needed.
And hunters are a ****ing waste of a raid slot without pally mana regen. You would think that Blizzard would of removed the hunter affirmative action program after they allegedly "fixed" the class way back when, but frenzy is still showing up in every dungeon. Horde raids need three tranqbots that are smart enough not to kill themselves and nothing else.
Azwethinkweiz
Member
I wonder if some of you people just read the blizzard forums and then repost that shit here verbatim.
Son of Godzilla said:
Your 'want' to be a dps warrior may not coincide with Blizzard's intent for the class in raids. As such, you may find your new gear and encounters dont play to your style. Suffice to say, it isn't really up to you to decide if you are viable for dps in raids.
Son of Godzilla
Banned
.................. Buh? Until Blizz makes every encounter need 5 warriors tanking, warriors will either DPS or be wasting a slot. Warriors flat out *ARE* a DPS class. I have no idea what you are trying to say, but it sounds really really assinine.
Son of Godzilla
Banned
I don't even play a warrior. Stop assuming so ****ing much, especially when all I'm saying is what actually happens, not some hypothetical bullshit.
Tritroid said:
Good luck on later attempts. We're hoping to try Patchwerk later this week, will keep ya posted. Got the 1H from Raz in Deathknight on Tuesday. Guild leader's got a new off-hand. Beautiful, it is.
Side note: I made a little listing of some of the stuff I want. What you guys think? Am I loot-whorish enough?
http://n.1asphost.com/Jaybo/torberloots.htm
krypt0nian
Banned
Good god, I've been out since like January and now I literally cannot play. I need to relearn my controls. :lol
Feels good to be a Rogue again, though. Nothing better to me than that sound that a Cheap Shot makes.
Feels good to be a Rogue again, though. Nothing better to me than that sound that a Cheap Shot makes.
http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/news-273-1-more-informations-about-the-expansion.html
Sounds good if it's real.
Sounds good if it's real.
Azwethinkweiz
Member
I'm starting to wonder if the expansion will make a Christmas release. It just doesn't seem ready enough to show up on shelves before spring of 07. But then again, I didn't think WoW was ready for release and they rushed that shit out the door, so who knows.
Guild halls could actually be really good for WoW, but it'd be an even bigger server drain... basically, have an instanced "home" with a passworded guild bank that's literally a treasure chest, and allow guildies who know the pass to access it to take out items, with it logging who took what.
firex said:
That would be amazing. It's so hard to keep up a guild bank, because if the leader [or whoever owns the bank character(s)] isn't online, someone else would need to have their logon information, which is not allowed by blizzard rules. It could, and has, lead to account banning. No need to get your guild bank banned because someone couldn't log on one night to get something, or crafting something, or some lame-ass reason like that.
But then again, honestly, who doesn't share info?
I have the info of two warriors, a rogue, a warlock, and a shaman. That's just the ones from the opposite faction. I have about 20+ accounts at my disposal. Take that, Blizzard.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
Joe said:
something other than world of raidcraft endgame.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
firex said:
I do know that one portal between Trade and Old Town in SW was to be one at one time; dunno if Org had one back in early beta when it was a cluster****, but theres no sign of one there now.
SatelliteOfLove said:
I don't know if it would be in Org for horde. I mean, take into consideration. Each faction has three types of cities. The main city, the lesser city, and the city out in bum-**** nowhere. Ironforge is to Orgrimmar, Stormwind is more to Undercity, and bum-**** nowhere is Darnassus and Thunder Bluff. I'm alliance, so I'm not really sure on the Undercity and Thunder Bluff classifications, but I know that Darnassus is in the middle of ****ing nowhere. Stormwind would be perfect for a Guild House. Not as much lag as Ironforge [yet] so it would be ideal. I'd say the Undercity is more of the Stormwind equivalent, so be looking around there for a nice blank spot for a portal to open. Maybe it would be like in Ironforge, where there's tons of little rooms that have no purpose whatsoever except to confuse new players.
Come on Blizzard. You can du eet.
teacupcopter
Banned
tehjaybo said:
On another note, Blizzard have to fix the city imbalance.
Alliance- Darnassus is a wasteland. No-one there except low level NE's dropping off quests, seriously, the place leads to nothing.
Ironforge- EVERYONE there. If you need to get to MC? one FP away. BWL, LBRS, UBRS? same FP
Naxx, Strat, Scholo? One or two FPs up. Need to get to Kalimdor? Like two seconds away from menethil and then to AQ or whatever. About the only place that Stormwind is closer to is ZG.Stormwind- Nothing is there really but it remains populated for some reason, vaguely.
EDIT: Pressed post too quickly.
Horde- Thunder Bluff is probably the least populated, low level Taurens, like Darnassus. But it's just a quick flight from Orgimmar so it's not too out of the way, and it's a closer city for some zones around.
Orgrimmar- the real reason this is packed out is the zeppelin to Undercity. I have no idea why Undercity isn't more packed out, because...
Undercity- Is like Ironforge in location, just a few flights away from everything you need as a 60.
The real reason why nobody goes to TB is it stops having quests after you complete uldaman and get those golden disc things from the treasure chest at the end. Well, I guess there is the morrowgrain quest, but still... the higher level you get, the less there is to do in TB. I like it for the most part though. Since it's nearly always empty but isn't a pain in the ass to get to like Darnassus, and they linked the AH, it's a great place to park an AH alt/mule. And really, I think the reason hardly anyone goes to the undercity is grom'gol or booty bay are even more useful spots to set your hearthstone at level 60. Then you're right next to the zeppelins, right at the flight path for blackrock mountain, and it isn't crowded or laggy at all. Still, I've been thinking of changing my hearthstone back to UC on my warlock.
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