Do it, Kintaro! Also read this post and its comments to get you even more in the mood:
Mages, we love you!
Mages, we love you!
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World of Warcraft
- Thread starter Cerebral Palsy
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I read lots of pages of what draft (?) linked for wowace and I tried several configurations and had just too much trouble with all of them. I thought Draft's Unit Frames looked about perfect for a raid healer, and despite the fact I quit my Pally and am trying to raise mage now I figured if it could do that it would be able to do everything of course.
There were definately bonuses AGUF had a neat sheeper mod, and I think I like FUBAR better than titanpanel. That said, FUBAR takes a lot more of your time as you have to find the addons to do simple things that titan has built in.. i.e. clock, mp/hp regen well basically FUBAR has nothing until you get an addon plugin to do it.
I liked Bartender3, it was both complex with options and simple to use and I was quickly able to re-arrange all my bottombars. I then went and found aperture and viewported the black part of the screen. I had some quirky problems with action bars though, and I tried both pitbull and AGUF and couldn't get either setup in a fashion I liked. I'm sure if I had spent quite a few more hours I could have got something I liked but I decided to just back out and try Saitoh's way. I'll see how that works for me
I guess in the end the most important part to me is just breaking the bottom down and getting rid of wasted space. i.e hiding the bar that has 1,2,3,4,5,6 on it as I know those and all my keybinds withouting seeing them. Most everything that isn't keybinded as a person who uses keybind for 85%+ of my interactions I don't need to click quickly i.e. Evocation, create water/food, buff, etc. I was able to do this, the second part I'd like is improved unit-frames especially raiding wise where the default just takes up way too much space and doesn't give enough info.
There were definately bonuses AGUF had a neat sheeper mod, and I think I like FUBAR better than titanpanel. That said, FUBAR takes a lot more of your time as you have to find the addons to do simple things that titan has built in.. i.e. clock, mp/hp regen well basically FUBAR has nothing until you get an addon plugin to do it.
I liked Bartender3, it was both complex with options and simple to use and I was quickly able to re-arrange all my bottombars. I then went and found aperture and viewported the black part of the screen. I had some quirky problems with action bars though, and I tried both pitbull and AGUF and couldn't get either setup in a fashion I liked. I'm sure if I had spent quite a few more hours I could have got something I liked but I decided to just back out and try Saitoh's way. I'll see how that works for me
I guess in the end the most important part to me is just breaking the bottom down and getting rid of wasted space. i.e hiding the bar that has 1,2,3,4,5,6 on it as I know those and all my keybinds withouting seeing them. Most everything that isn't keybinded as a person who uses keybind for 85%+ of my interactions I don't need to click quickly i.e. Evocation, create water/food, buff, etc. I was able to do this, the second part I'd like is improved unit-frames especially raiding wise where the default just takes up way too much space and doesn't give enough info.
keeblerdrow
Member
This may be a stretch, but I need to find a new home for my character...
Does anyone know of any servers (PvE or RP) that have a relatively active Horde side late at night? I play from 1am to 5am Eastern zone very consistently. I have a warlock on Feathermoon and the place is just dead to the world at that time of night. I was hoping maybe someone on here knew of a US or an Oceanic server I could transfer him to. I'm interested in BC instances and eventually raiding at that time of night and I'm willing to pay off the $25 to get him to a server where this can happen.
Does anyone know of any servers (PvE or RP) that have a relatively active Horde side late at night? I play from 1am to 5am Eastern zone very consistently. I have a warlock on Feathermoon and the place is just dead to the world at that time of night. I was hoping maybe someone on here knew of a US or an Oceanic server I could transfer him to. I'm interested in BC instances and eventually raiding at that time of night and I'm willing to pay off the $25 to get him to a server where this can happen.
worldofraids.com has a post up that makes it sound like maybe someday (probably the week after warhammer comes out) ret pallies will get their due. and prot pallies maybe?
I know if ret became the new flavor of the month spec, I'd go for it, because right now I'm not a big fan of prot tanking. It's too much of a hassle to explain to everyone how a pally tank needs people beating on them to generate any threat, and doesn't really have any sunder-like skill to stack up threat. The closest thing is judgment of righteousness/seal of vengeance, but the second is noobs only and the first isn't going to really jump up a lot in threat due to blizzard being ****ing dumb.
I know if ret became the new flavor of the month spec, I'd go for it, because right now I'm not a big fan of prot tanking. It's too much of a hassle to explain to everyone how a pally tank needs people beating on them to generate any threat, and doesn't really have any sunder-like skill to stack up threat. The closest thing is judgment of righteousness/seal of vengeance, but the second is noobs only and the first isn't going to really jump up a lot in threat due to blizzard being ****ing dumb.
Shammies are supposed to be getting a good look-over too, according to some blue text on the EU forums...
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=299010689&pageNo=2&sid=1#22
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=299010689&pageNo=2&sid=1#22
cubicle47b
Member
I don't know, people say shamans suck but they're great healers (chain heal and earth shield are hax) with 2 viable DPS trees. I'm sure they could use tweaks but overall they don't seem to be that bad off.
Paladins really only have one weak tree (Ret). Holy is still overpowered. And Protection is actually a really great tree, it's just weakly itemized and has downright brutal gear requirements. Having to hit 102.4% mitigation while stacking stamina in ilvl 115 blues is what keeps most paladins from main tanking an intro raid instance like Karazhan and they'll lag behind warriors in health by quite a ways for a long time. The potential at high gear levels is absurd, though, because of the way the hit table works and the number of charges holy shield has (as compared to shield block).
edit:
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#character-sheet.xml?r=Kael'thas&n=Esmi
I finally replaced my blue chest from Shadow Labyrinth last night. Upgrades from here on out will be either really minor or extremely rare. My tier 5 head, legs, and hands (that or Gladiator gloves), Mag's ring, the healing mace from Vashj, the neck from Kael'Thas, the belt from Solarian (or the mail trash drop). That's about it until Hyjal and BT which will be a while. It's satisfying and kind of sad at the same time.
Paladins really only have one weak tree (Ret). Holy is still overpowered. And Protection is actually a really great tree, it's just weakly itemized and has downright brutal gear requirements. Having to hit 102.4% mitigation while stacking stamina in ilvl 115 blues is what keeps most paladins from main tanking an intro raid instance like Karazhan and they'll lag behind warriors in health by quite a ways for a long time. The potential at high gear levels is absurd, though, because of the way the hit table works and the number of charges holy shield has (as compared to shield block).
edit:
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#character-sheet.xml?r=Kael'thas&n=Esmi
I finally replaced my blue chest from Shadow Labyrinth last night. Upgrades from here on out will be either really minor or extremely rare. My tier 5 head, legs, and hands (that or Gladiator gloves), Mag's ring, the healing mace from Vashj, the neck from Kael'Thas, the belt from Solarian (or the mail trash drop). That's about it until Hyjal and BT which will be a while. It's satisfying and kind of sad at the same time.
cubicle47b
Member
They have ankhs. 
Yeah, I suppose enhance and elemental shamans could use some form of aggro reduction as could arms/fury warriors (besides a soul stone, which we've done many times before).
Yeah, I suppose enhance and elemental shamans could use some form of aggro reduction as could arms/fury warriors (besides a soul stone, which we've done many times before).
Shamans biggest problems lie in PVP, anything other than resto and they are a sitting duck...you might get a roffle elemental mastery CL every once in a while, but on the whole, you're gonna get charged by a warrior and drop about 2 seconds later. Enhancement is even worse for PVP...
I know from playing my Shaman and getting destroyed, and from playing my warrior and wiping out every Shaman in her path :lol
I guess if you got all end game gear, it might fair better, but none of the other classes I've played needed that much of a boost to be viable in PVP.
I know from playing my Shaman and getting destroyed, and from playing my warrior and wiping out every Shaman in her path :lol
I guess if you got all end game gear, it might fair better, but none of the other classes I've played needed that much of a boost to be viable in PVP.
MrToughPants
Brian Burke punched my mom
firex said:
Me and my bro are making a Warrior/Paladin combo for arena.
Also, theorycraft all you want about prot pallies, but the insane gear requirements to match up to your average warrior, and the piss poor itemization (not to mention the near-total lack of prot pally drops in raids from what I have seen) means it's not going to be a viable spec until they either adjust all the gear or adjust the skills. I don't think it would be too big of a stretch to make all the shield skills affected by block/armor in addition to (or instead of) spell damage to help get away from the itemization problems, not to mention there are a huge amount of mana issues with everything not named holy shield. The class needs a shitload of work, because quite frankly 98% of pallies shouldn't be holy. Say what you will about how with the right gear a prot pally can actually tank stuff, but 1) that gear is nearly all warrior drops, which naturally would benefit a warrior even more, and 2) nobody wants a prot/ret pally for raids. If druids/shamans/priests/warriors can get away with more than one spec for raids, so should paladins.
I don't personally care about pvp in this game, because it's more or less a tacked-on mode for alternate gear now (not to say I wouldn't take gladiator's epics for some slots over other gear though) but the pve purpose of a pally is to do one thing: heal. It's shit design when that's the only accepted raid role for pallies, and nearly all of the pally drops from raids support it and nothing else.
I don't personally care about pvp in this game, because it's more or less a tacked-on mode for alternate gear now (not to say I wouldn't take gladiator's epics for some slots over other gear though) but the pve purpose of a pally is to do one thing: heal. It's shit design when that's the only accepted raid role for pallies, and nearly all of the pally drops from raids support it and nothing else.
Blizzard's reasoning is that Warriors will always be the main tank for an optimal raid configuration because hybrid-class tanks such as Paladins and Druids should never be on par with any 'pure' class.
But that's complete bullshit because:
1. Warriors are hybrids, too. Arms spec'd: they can DPS very well. Fury spec'd: they can rape faces in the Arena. And as a Protection Warrior, they can tank any 25-man encounter in the game.
2. Holy Paladins (also hybrids) totally put a smack down on every other healing spec'd, or 'pure healing class' in the game (in PVE and especially PVP). Illumination nerf be damned.
Clearly their own game design invalidates their little hybrid/pure balancing philosophy.
It's obvious the designers have a huge hard-on for the Warrior class. And through itemization, they would rather see that other Plate-wearing class topping the healing charts instead of Tanking or even DPS'ing on par with a Warrior.
But that's complete bullshit because:
1. Warriors are hybrids, too. Arms spec'd: they can DPS very well. Fury spec'd: they can rape faces in the Arena. And as a Protection Warrior, they can tank any 25-man encounter in the game.
2. Holy Paladins (also hybrids) totally put a smack down on every other healing spec'd, or 'pure healing class' in the game (in PVE and especially PVP). Illumination nerf be damned.
Clearly their own game design invalidates their little hybrid/pure balancing philosophy.
It's obvious the designers have a huge hard-on for the Warrior class. And through itemization, they would rather see that other Plate-wearing class topping the healing charts instead of Tanking or even DPS'ing on par with a Warrior.
cubicle47b
Member
Pure healing class made me laugh.
I agree that protection paladin itemization needs to be better and there needs to be more of it. The tree really is in good shape, though (abilities could use a mana reduction after the spiritual attunement nerf, though). There are two big hurdles for paladin tanking. One is getting uncrushable with a decent amount of health without getting geared up in Karazhan. The other is dealing with the retards that play WoW.
Once you get ilvl115+ epic items the health difference between warrior and paladin tanks is much less significant and we just don't take crushing blows unless we don't refresh holy shield fast enough. Getting there is the problem. I should put together a complete tanking set, it's expensive to respec and to socket/enchant multiple gearsets, though.
well, you got the DPS/pvp specs backwards, but yeah, blizzard loves warriors. if there's any favored class by blizzard (especially when it comes to raids) it's the warrior.
I think this is just part of the problem of hiring people with some sort of bitter anti-EQ agenda. all the FOH guys who apparently do the class balancing and raid design just want their favorite class (warrior, since that's what all of them played in EQ) to be the most important. What will inevitably happen is blizzard will cave in to common sense and make paladins/shamans way better (along with everyone else) like the week before warhammer online launches. At least until they let Kalgan back in the room, where he'll start rebalancing everything around how it can make warriors better.
I mean, Blizzard's lead class balancing guy is Kalgan, and he was pretty famous for bitching and whining nonstop until SOE either nerfed some class he hated or buffed warriors in EQ. I realize they wanted to steal away a lot of EQ's userbase instead of losing out to EQ2, but I think WoW would have just as many (if not more) subscribers if they just stuck with what they wanted to do pre-bringing in all the FOH retards.
We'd probably be looking at a vastly different endgame, where the focus is a lot more on pvp, too. I mean that's a bit of a stretch maybe, since the WoW beta started out with pve servers and didn't even begin to introduce pvp rules until maybe 1/3 of the way through, but I don't think the game would've focused so much on rep grinds, 40 man raids, and so on like it did pre-expansion (and now it just has faster rep grinds and smaller raids). They'd probably still have a few raids, but it'd be like 10 and 20 man content, and classes would be a lot better balanced. Now I guess I'm theorycrafting, but that's just based upon Blizzard's previous games and their typically competitive multiplayer focus.
I now think warriors are honestly a terribly designed class. Spec them arms or fury, and get them some good weapons (same as any other melee, but someone will bring this up), and they're overpowered dps compared to most other classes of the same level/gear (especially when you consider they get plate and the most/second most HP). Spec them prot and they're gimps who can tank instances, but do nothing else. It's a lot like my pally, where you can only grind with holy if you have like 600+ spell damage gear (and believe it or not, that's way harder to get than typical melee gear) or 11+ points into ret and a 2hander (only exception being seal of blood, but that comes at level 64 and it's horde only). I'd really, seriously rather have mediocre talents, but great basic abilities for all roles at this point for both of those classes. Either that or they should do what some people suggested months ago in that stratics irc chat and allow us to have 2 specs and be able to swap them. That would even be great for classes whose 2 roles differ so much (like priests and warriors) so they could have one spec for solo/grinding and one for grouping, or just use whichever's appropriate for their group.
I think this is just part of the problem of hiring people with some sort of bitter anti-EQ agenda. all the FOH guys who apparently do the class balancing and raid design just want their favorite class (warrior, since that's what all of them played in EQ) to be the most important. What will inevitably happen is blizzard will cave in to common sense and make paladins/shamans way better (along with everyone else) like the week before warhammer online launches. At least until they let Kalgan back in the room, where he'll start rebalancing everything around how it can make warriors better.
I mean, Blizzard's lead class balancing guy is Kalgan, and he was pretty famous for bitching and whining nonstop until SOE either nerfed some class he hated or buffed warriors in EQ. I realize they wanted to steal away a lot of EQ's userbase instead of losing out to EQ2, but I think WoW would have just as many (if not more) subscribers if they just stuck with what they wanted to do pre-bringing in all the FOH retards.
We'd probably be looking at a vastly different endgame, where the focus is a lot more on pvp, too. I mean that's a bit of a stretch maybe, since the WoW beta started out with pve servers and didn't even begin to introduce pvp rules until maybe 1/3 of the way through, but I don't think the game would've focused so much on rep grinds, 40 man raids, and so on like it did pre-expansion (and now it just has faster rep grinds and smaller raids). They'd probably still have a few raids, but it'd be like 10 and 20 man content, and classes would be a lot better balanced. Now I guess I'm theorycrafting, but that's just based upon Blizzard's previous games and their typically competitive multiplayer focus.
I now think warriors are honestly a terribly designed class. Spec them arms or fury, and get them some good weapons (same as any other melee, but someone will bring this up), and they're overpowered dps compared to most other classes of the same level/gear (especially when you consider they get plate and the most/second most HP). Spec them prot and they're gimps who can tank instances, but do nothing else. It's a lot like my pally, where you can only grind with holy if you have like 600+ spell damage gear (and believe it or not, that's way harder to get than typical melee gear) or 11+ points into ret and a 2hander (only exception being seal of blood, but that comes at level 64 and it's horde only). I'd really, seriously rather have mediocre talents, but great basic abilities for all roles at this point for both of those classes. Either that or they should do what some people suggested months ago in that stratics irc chat and allow us to have 2 specs and be able to swap them. That would even be great for classes whose 2 roles differ so much (like priests and warriors) so they could have one spec for solo/grinding and one for grouping, or just use whichever's appropriate for their group.
firex said:
I hold the torch for Ret Pallies, mang - I'm doing decent DPS with the current gear I have (AND MIND YOU, MOST OF THEM ARE EPICS... DOUBLE YOU TEE EFF blizz.. I have to get epics to even try to dps? Glad you're looking over ret...)- and I'm holding out for that big change to happen to the weakest tree. Most everyone seems to agree to make Paladins DPS more and raid viable more is up their support values while giving them a slight boost in DPS.
We need to give more buffs and things that raiders will enjoy us doing when we melee (whether it be having judgement of wisdom return mana to the party when we attack (instead of ourselves) or something of that nature) akin to how Shadow Priests have come into their own with the amazing mana regen they bring to the table.
I agree that it should be like enhance shamans or shadow priests, where they give buffs that proc from dpsing.
as far as helping the dps itself goes, IMO either bring back holy strike from original beta (although make it instant with a longer cooldown than crusader strike) or change judgment so it's a melee strike + holy damage (and then add new ranks that would do more extra holy damage) in addition to causing the judgment debuffs. I have no idea what they could add that wouldn't feel like unleashed rage all over again for a melee buff, unless they wanted to make it so vengeance procced mana/rage/energy regen or something. Sanctity aura obviously should be a group +damage aura. And it's a given that there should be some kind of threat reduction (and it's a no-brainer it should be put in with 2h weapon spec) too. I kind of agree with the suggestions on the actual wow forums that they should swap precision back into the ret tree. I know on my pally I don't need melee hit much at all to tank anything, because threat is generated far more by blocking.
And I'm kind of having the opinion that they should replace holy shock with either something way more useful as a healing talent (same with divine illumination) or a way better offensive skill. Or just lower the cooldown on holy shock so it can be used about as often as shaman shocks/mind blast/fireblast. But really, it's just holy shock and divine illumination that stink out of the holy tree... and for prot the only really retarded things are 1) that for a class that's supposed to be a capable tank, they only get 1 genuine tanking ability without speccing 30+ into prot and 2) the horrible itemization that's only rectified by epic tank sets (and a few rare crafted items), where a prot pally is useless and won't get those items. Ret speaks for itself how bad it is. It kinda accomplishes the solo grinding role since it's at least more reliable than reckoning, but I hardly notice a difference grinding on my 0/43/18 spec than I ever did when I was crusader strike spec. And it's not like it brings a single damn thing to groups except a horrible aggro magnet.
as far as helping the dps itself goes, IMO either bring back holy strike from original beta (although make it instant with a longer cooldown than crusader strike) or change judgment so it's a melee strike + holy damage (and then add new ranks that would do more extra holy damage) in addition to causing the judgment debuffs. I have no idea what they could add that wouldn't feel like unleashed rage all over again for a melee buff, unless they wanted to make it so vengeance procced mana/rage/energy regen or something. Sanctity aura obviously should be a group +damage aura. And it's a given that there should be some kind of threat reduction (and it's a no-brainer it should be put in with 2h weapon spec) too. I kind of agree with the suggestions on the actual wow forums that they should swap precision back into the ret tree. I know on my pally I don't need melee hit much at all to tank anything, because threat is generated far more by blocking.
And I'm kind of having the opinion that they should replace holy shock with either something way more useful as a healing talent (same with divine illumination) or a way better offensive skill. Or just lower the cooldown on holy shock so it can be used about as often as shaman shocks/mind blast/fireblast. But really, it's just holy shock and divine illumination that stink out of the holy tree... and for prot the only really retarded things are 1) that for a class that's supposed to be a capable tank, they only get 1 genuine tanking ability without speccing 30+ into prot and 2) the horrible itemization that's only rectified by epic tank sets (and a few rare crafted items), where a prot pally is useless and won't get those items. Ret speaks for itself how bad it is. It kinda accomplishes the solo grinding role since it's at least more reliable than reckoning, but I hardly notice a difference grinding on my 0/43/18 spec than I ever did when I was crusader strike spec. And it's not like it brings a single damn thing to groups except a horrible aggro magnet.
cubicle47b
Member
Divine Illumination is a great talent and shouldn't be changed. It allows for disaster recovery without completely blowing your mana pool which is pretty damn important as a healer that would have to regen outside the 5 second rule for around 20 seconds to cast a max rank holy light. Holy Shock does suck and could be changed to something more useful but there needs to be some kind of damage talent in the holy tree for those paladins not smart enough to have a farming alt.
Itemization isn't fixed by epic tanking sets, the item budget just allows you to hit the mitigation numbers you need without gimping your stamina a lot more easily. It's not exactly easy but 11.5K health unbuffed while being uncrushable is possible pre-Karazhan. You just have to really work for it. If I was going to ask for changes to the protection tree I'd ask for holy shield to last 12 seconds (while the cooldown remains at 10 seconds) so we always have it up. And for a few tools that warriors have that we can't touch. They have demoralizing shout, thunderclap (important mitigation tools), commanding shout, last stand, shield wall, berserker rage for fear breaks, disarm and shield bash. A couple of the more important ones would be nice. Redoubt as a passive 5% increase to block would probably be a good change too.
Itemization isn't fixed by epic tanking sets, the item budget just allows you to hit the mitigation numbers you need without gimping your stamina a lot more easily. It's not exactly easy but 11.5K health unbuffed while being uncrushable is possible pre-Karazhan. You just have to really work for it. If I was going to ask for changes to the protection tree I'd ask for holy shield to last 12 seconds (while the cooldown remains at 10 seconds) so we always have it up. And for a few tools that warriors have that we can't touch. They have demoralizing shout, thunderclap (important mitigation tools), commanding shout, last stand, shield wall, berserker rage for fear breaks, disarm and shield bash. A couple of the more important ones would be nice. Redoubt as a passive 5% increase to block would probably be a good change too.
MrPing1000
Member
Erm I quit a few months ago but Firex you are talking some bollocks about warriors. Paladins have it tough but its no rose garden in warrior land either. Arms spec is pvp you do fine super. If u want to do anything else oh spec prot or we don't need you. Part of why I quit was having to be protection to be useful. Patch 2.0 totally ruined a warriors ability to tank without protection and as such Fury and Arms instantly became useless once karazhan was underway. The gear thing you mentioned I found odd as well. Warriors scale hugely with gear yes, but as in pre expansion WoW they only started to climb the dps charts once guilds were finishing off AQ40.
Knew it was a bad idea to come to here hehe.
Knew it was a bad idea to come to here hehe.
MrPing1000 said:
The problem is now warriors don't need 39 other members to help them get an elite 2H weapon to smash face in BG's or arenas. All you need is blacksmithing/weaponsmithing or participate in arena for a few weeks and boom, disgusting epic 2H.
I'm sorry, but warriors are pretty much the god class of WoW right now. Please buff everyone else or nerf arms warriors.
MrPing1000
Member
Hero said:
I wasn't really talking about Arms warriors. I was always a fury warrior until the expansion made me protection.
That's kind of the point, isn't it? Let PVP'ers get what they want by PVPing, rather than wasting an inordinate amount of time in PVE content. Everybody gets epics the way they want to.Hero said:
Outside of arena PVP, I fail to see how this is the case. It's very difficult to get in a decent PVE guild even if you are Prot, because there are so many warriors and so few raid slots for them. If you are Fury....lolz, good luck.
MrPing1000 said:
i tanked 8-10 heroic slave pens runs for my primal nethers without going prot or having a decent tank set, basically i tanked in my pvp gear, so i don't really agree with your assesment on warriors
and warriors with windfury were able to top dps charts way before aq40 prexpac, that goes for arms or fury warriors, all you needed was a good epic weapon, i routinely was in the top 3 dps in MC and BWL
If you bothered to read what I said, arms/fury with a good weapon = practically overpowered dps when you factor in all the hp/armor that warriors get even in dps gear, while prot = awesome tanking that can only tank, and there's not much in the way of middle ground. I never said warriors have it good for talents or getting any kind of groups (except maybe raids) as anything but prot spec, just that Kalgan is a retard whose only thought is "how can I make warriors the best class today?" instead of balancing every class.MrPing1000 said:
border said:
Yes, I'm glad that they are beginning to seperate PVE content and PVP content with different gear. However, the problem now is that the classes that scaled best with gear (i.e. the warrior) are getting their rewards very easily.
I was talking mainly about PVP in my earlier post. Warriors are easily the most overpowered class in PVP, either 1v1, BG, or arena. As far as PVE wise, there's hardly any warriors left that are willing to spec PVE so I suppose my server is different than your's.
1v1? Huh? They have their counter-classes, and are ridiculously susceptible to CC. Unless you are a class that relies on Fear, it's not that bad. Even a Fear-dependent warlock can chain seduce if they know what they're doing (most of them just panic and throw up DOTs, ruining that strategy).Hero said:
Unless they have someone healing them, it's not that hard to focus fire and annihilate a warrior pretty quick. And if someone is healing them, well then that's what you get for letting someone with massive damage output get healed all the time. As someone noted many pages ago, in arenas it's better to CC a healer and focus fire on the warrior.....because other than the PVP trinket and their Intercept, there isn't shit they can do.
In BG's it's pretty much the same -- as a warrior I was target #1, and was pretty much stunlock-raped all the time. That lame pally 5-sec stun was long enough for 2-3 people to wipe most of your HP....and if you came out of it there was probably a rogue putting you into a stunlock anyway.
I can't imagine dying in 5 seconds of stun at level 70 with blues. I just can't. There's too much stuff out there that will give you 8-9k hp most likely. Even my meager 7k-ish HP in my heal gear on my pally doesn't die from a stunlock.
It's so radically different in pvp at 60 and at 70 now. Although maybe it gets back to the quick killing with epics. I really wouldn't know since my only epics are the sha'tar rep epics and the badge of justice libram.
It's so radically different in pvp at 60 and at 70 now. Although maybe it gets back to the quick killing with epics. I really wouldn't know since my only epics are the sha'tar rep epics and the badge of justice libram.
Well it kind of depends on how many people are hammering you during that 5 second stun, doesn't it? 2-3 classes with high burst DPS can wear you down pretty fast. I'm not saying that 1v1 pally/warrior goes to the pally, just that in BG/arena-type PVP warriors aren't gods that can overcome the odds. Maybe you make it out of the stun yes, but by that point you'd be lucky to survive long enough to kill 1 attacker. My main point was that there's always some CC that comes after the stunlock, so even if you blow your trinket on it you'll wind up Death Coil'ed or Feared or Kidney Shot'ed.
Without a healer, warriors are boned with focused fire and basic CC. All that armor is pretty-well useless against casters. Problem is that most groups simply allow the warrior to be healed until all the CC cooldowns are blown, then he runs amok with the clothies.
2-3 classes with high burst DPS can wear you down pretty fast. I'm not saying that 1v1 pally/warrior goes to the pally, just that in BG/arena-type PVP warriors aren't gods that can overcome the odds. Maybe you make it out of the stun yes, but by that point you'd be lucky to survive long enough to kill 1 attacker. My main point was that there's always some CC that comes after the stunlock, so even if you blow your trinket on it you'll wind up Death Coil'ed or Feared or Kidney Shot'ed.Without a healer, warriors are boned with focused fire and basic CC. All that armor is pretty-well useless against casters. Problem is that most groups simply allow the warrior to be healed until all the CC cooldowns are blown, then he runs amok with the clothies.
heh, anyone's boned with focus fire and CC though. unless they use an aoe fear. the most I can do (the few times I really have pvped on my pally) is stun someone for a few seconds, which if it seems like it sucks to get hit by it, it's on such a long cooldown for pvp that it's just not that great. Although I guess if I had a bunch of epics and crusader strike I'd be sorta like an arms warrior, just with single target stun/disorient instead of aoe fear (and the cooldowns are honestly close enough for how often they get used in pvp). I'm used to the focus fire in pvp though, from all the stuff I did (pre-expansion) on my lock.
Now, pvping as a prot pally... well, I don't bother. I tried an AV and it's probably just as bad as a prot warrior. I assume I'd be a good flag carrier in WSG though.
Now, pvping as a prot pally... well, I don't bother. I tried an AV and it's probably just as bad as a prot warrior. I assume I'd be a good flag carrier in WSG though.
For what it's worth, I think Divine Illumination (and the Holy tree in general) is fantastic. Blizzard was actually very smart in nerfing Illumination, in that it changes Divine Illumination from being a over-powered luxury (spells at half price plus 200% mana returns with crits), to something with a more restrained, reasonable purpose.firex said:
I also like the fundamental idea behind Holy Shock (instant harm/help), though the specifics of it (cooldown, cost, etc.) could, perhaps, use a bit more tweaking.
Also, Firex, do you have any current evidence supporting the accusations you've directed at Kalgan? WoW's class climate is not EQ's, and I see no reason to believe that he continues, to this day, to attack the issue of balance from the perspective of an EQ player.
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Demon+Soul&n=Ramos
Got some epics... Looking to top off my chestplate with the new Arena gear one!
Got some epics... Looking to top off my chestplate with the new Arena gear one!
Man, I've got like 10,800 HP, and a Warlock basically 2 shot me the other night in an arena. His first Shadowbolt crit me for like 4500, then my WW activated BL, he was BOP'd and he instant SB'd me for 5400, then burned me for 1900, this literally happened in 5 seconds probably, it was so outrageous. So um, I don't buy this warriors are way OP, especially in 1v1, sheesh.
Like I already said, it's not the 5 seconds that's the problem so much as it is getting hammered with every other CC during it. A moderately sized group can wipe HP out ridiculously quick, and if you're not dead you're slowed, trapped, stunned, etc.Hero said:
The real point was not whether or not you can die in 5 seconds, I dunno why everyone latched on to that example so hard. The point was just that warriors are just incredibly CC-sensitive.....keep a distance, don't let the heals go off, GG.
It's the only thing that really makes sense considering Kalgan literally designs every single thing around "how will this make warriors better," even when it comes to other classes. Especially when it comes to raids. You don't think a bunch of ubernerds who are still bitter about SOE's terrible job with EQ (especially a guy who literally spent almost all of his waking time whining nonstop for SOE to buff his class/nerf others) wouldn't try to stick it to SOE a little with their class design? That was like the entire hardcore community selling point early on, with all three of Tigole, Furor and Kalgan talking about how much the warrior/paladin were better than they are in EQ. Kalgan has also said numerous times that he plays a warrior and no other classes.Adagio said:
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