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[ToyMachine228]

I'm buying the WoW battlechest today and was thinking of making a draenai paladin or warrior. Which class would be better for the race?

If you want to be a healer, play the Paladin. Draenei have the racial Heal over Time that gives a Paladin's healing spells a tiny bit more depth. If you want to do damage or tank, then roll a Warrior. They can do both and a Warrior with the HoT racial gives you a bit more survivability.

 

[yacobod]

Got my warrior alt up to 50. Was considering stopping the leveling since AR/prep was actually a pretty decent spec but apparently Blizz devs don't want rogues to have a good PVP spec so they're nerfing hemo.

so you drop your rogue after they finally got buffed and are actually strong in arena lol :lol

 

[yacobod]

I'm buying the WoW battlechest today and was thinking of making a draenai paladin or warrior. Which class would be better for the race?

if you want to heal paladin is probably the worst healing class

at least with priests, shaman, or druids you are open to doing other things, if you dont want to heal

priests can go shadow
shaman can go elemental or enhancement
druids can go OOMkin or feral

paladins suck unless they are holy, and paladins are pretty weak in arena now besides in 5 mans

if you want to heal

i would say roll a priest or druid, you will be better off w/one of those classes imo, more versatile, better in arena, and by far funner to play

if you are set on either paladin or warrior, do yourself a favor and roll a warrior, so you dont end up being a RETard, i'm pretty sure any RETard would trade his crappy ret pally for a warrior of equal gear w/out thinking twice, rets want to be warriors so bad

but if you want to be a warrior on alliance side id roll a gnome, their racials are too OP not to take imo

 

[Onemic]

So what good does a paladin serve then?

 

[John_B]

I know they say rogues should have the highest raid dps, but today on Teron hunters were doing 1600+ stable dps, which 500 of those dps were from their pets.

I was doing 1500 dps stable. I don't have any t6 bonuses yet, but still, I have more than fine gear (1862ap, 231hit, 30.17crit, 18 expertise, blade of infamy, dst and tt) and my group setup was good (fury warrior, enhancement shaman, bm hunter).

Is hunter dps just superior when they can focus 100% on dps, have equal group and their pets don't die?

 

[border]

I know they say rogues should have the highest raid dps

It's my observation that almost every pure DPS class thinks that they are "supposed" to have the highest DPS. A mage says they are supposed to out DPS everyone and whine that warlocks are surpassing them.....a rogue says they are supposed to have the highest DPS and whine that hunters/fury warriors surpass them....and on and on and on and on.

Has Blizzard actually commented on which class (if any) is supposed to have the highest DPS?

 

[ToyMachine228]

So what good does a paladin serve then?

Don't take his comments the wrong way, Paladins a very versatile class. They can tank, heal, or go Ret (dps) but Ret is heavily gear reliant and harder to keep up with other dps classes. You can go Protection and tank, but Warrios and Feral Druids both tank better. Paladins aren't bad 5-man tanks however, they're very capable. And they are also good healers. Healing is a Paladin's strongest aspect. You're a plate wearing healer that can avoid death pretty easily. For Arena, Paladins may not be the best healer, but in general Paladins are a very versatile class especially when played well.

 

[border]

and 2/2 weapon mastery is almost a must now, would u rather be disarmed for 5 seconds, or 10 seconds?

I probably get disarmed about once a week in this game......don't see it as a major problem. Rogues almost never riposte, and warriors don't wanna switch stances for a disarm. Maybe it's different in high-end arenas though *shrug*

 

[Hero]

so you drop your rogue after they finally got buffed and are actually strong in arena lol :lol

Can you read? I said I was going to ditch leveling my warrior alt because rogues got a decent buff with 2.3's hemo changes and dirty deeds but they're nerfing it in the next update to make it pointless once again.

Reading comprehension crits yacobod for 19405.

 

[yacobod]

Can you read? I said I was going to ditch leveling my warrior alt because rogues got a decent buff with 2.3's hemo changes and dirty deeds but they're nerfing it in the next update to make it pointless once again.

Reading comprehension crits yacobod for 19405.

LOL

u sir are the whiniest player in this thread, for that i salute you

complaining about rogue nerfs that havent even happened yet, rogues were buffed 2-3 weeks ago and are very strong right now, why dont you enjoy it instead of raging emo

 

[yacobod]

I probably get disarmed about once a week in this game......don't see it as a major problem. Rogues almost never riposte, and warriors don't wanna switch stances for a disarm. Maybe it's different in high-end arenas though *shrug*

you must not step into arenas very often, i think i'm disarmed in every game with a rogue or warrior now, most rogues have and are using riptose again

go play for a week, and get back to me

 

[fallout]

It's my observation that almost every pure DPS class thinks that they are "supposed" to have the highest DPS. A mage says they are supposed to out DPS everyone and whine that warlocks are surpassing them.....a rogue says they are supposed to have the highest DPS and whine that hunters/fury warriors surpass them....and on and on and on and on.

Has Blizzard actually commented on which class (if any) is supposed to have the highest DPS?

I seem to remember making this same observation once and getting called out on it. My memory is very muddy right now, but I think someone did show me something saying that rogues were supposed to have the highest DPS. But that might have just been for melee ... I'm really not too sure.

Aren't I helpful?

 

[John_B]

Has Blizzard actually commented on which class (if any) is supposed to have the highest DPS?

Yes, rogues should be kings of single-target dps. The funny thing is that they even said dagger rogues should be the highest of any rogue spec, yet sword beats the crap out of daggers.

 

[border]

That's my point though -- "Blizzard said" is like a game of telephone. Everybody knows what they said, but it doesn't seem like there's any actual quotes reliably attributed to them from interviews or blue posts.

 

[yacobod]

Yes, rogues should be kings of single-target dps. The funny thing is that they even said dagger rogues should be the highest of any rogue spec, yet sword beats the crap out of daggers.

honestly who cares?

dmg meters are for personal epeen only, all that matters is that you kill the boss, and collect your purpz

 

[Hero]

LOL

u sir are the whiniest player in this thread, for that i salute you

complaining about rogue nerfs that havent even happened yet, rogues were buffed 2-3 weeks ago and are very strong right now, why dont you enjoy it instead of raging emo

And you're the most arrogant, thick-headed and single-minded player in this thread. God forbid people have opinions that don't match your own. Every time someone has a disagreement with you all you do is retort to horrible spelling and grammar, telling them to "l2play" basically or "QQ more nub". You're seriously worse than 90% of the WoW forum population.

If warriors were getting MS or deathwish nerfed on the PTR you'd probably be bitching up a storm. All I said was that I was pissed that Blizzard gave rogues a buff and then decides its too powerful less than two weeks after it makes it to Live.

That's my point though -- "Blizzard said" is like a game of telephone. Everybody knows what they said, but it doesn't seem like there's any actual quotes reliably attributed to them from interviews or blue posts.

Pre-TBC the highest raid dps I think was achieved through a fury warrior who was maximally geared out through AQ40 and Naxx I believe. However the itemization requirements to do this are so high that it would be extremely stupid to give all of that gear to a single person. But as common for most guilds rogues were the highest single target dps class in the game hands down.

However it seems that all that has changed since TBC, with Arena gear filling in itemization gaps as well as giving epics to players over the longhaul. It's not uncommon to see warlocks, hunters, and shadow priests very high up on the damage meters as well.

 

[SyNapSe]

It's my observation that almost every pure DPS class thinks that they are "supposed" to have the highest DPS. A mage says they are supposed to out DPS everyone and whine that warlocks are surpassing them.....a rogue says they are supposed to have the highest DPS and whine that hunters/fury warriors surpass them....and on and on and on and on.

Has Blizzard actually commented on which class (if any) is supposed to have the highest DPS?

I think the rogue argument generally comes down to the fact that they don't really bring anything else to the raid outside of DPS. Most of the other pure DPS classes bring quite a bit of utility/buffs/debuffs outside of DPS anymore.

 

[Jables]

if you want to heal paladin is probably the worst healing class

I'm not all too familiar with healing classes but I've always been under the impression that Paladins are currently the best nuke healing class in the game with their excessive mana pool. We have several Holy Paladins in my guild and they're all able to pump out a greater heals over a longer period of time without running low on mana.

I agree with the points you make about Paladins in relation to their limited in class functionality in comparison to other classes like Druids, and Shammy. Ret Pally's aren't really up to par with the DPS of some of the other classes yet, and leveling quickly is all about being able to do DPS. However, to say Paladins are probably the worst healing class because they don't have comparable DPS to other classes seem a bit misleading.

Also, I've seen my fair share of Tankadins in level 70 instances. When played right, they can be even better that a Warrior/Druid tank.

 

[Eric WK]

I'm not all too familiar with healing classes but I've always been under the impression that Paladins are currently the best nuke healing class in the game with their excessive mana pool. We have several Holy Paladins in my guild and they're all able to pump out a greater heals over a longer period of time without running low on mana.

I agree with the points you make about Paladins in relation to their limited in class functionality in comparison to other classes like Druids, and Shammy. Ret Pally's aren't really up to par with the DPS of some of the other classes yet, and leveling quickly is all about being able to do DPS. However, to say Paladins are probably the worst healing class because they don't have comparable DPS to other classes seem a bit misleading.

Also, I've seen my fair share of Tankadins in level 70 instances. When played right, they can be even better that a Warrior/Druid tank.

Yeah. Holy Paladins are the best single target PvE healers in the game.

 

[firex]

paladins can tank fine, though not as easy as a warrior/druid. just because it's not as easy doesn't mean they're worse... it's just that druid/warrior tanking is very straightforward. pally tanking, especially at higher levels, is far more about getting the mobs to hit you first so you can block, and then you'll start generating aggro. though it's not hard to have a lot of threat when you pull once you're 50+ and have the captain america spell. I just got frustrated playing mine because pugging instances meant having to tell the rogue "hey, don't stunlock this mob, I need the blocks." and I still feel like avenger's shield has a ridiculously long cooldown. If I were going to level up a tank again I'd just level a warrior since they can tank fine in dps specs, so I could still solo grind stuff if I needed/wanted. but instead I'll get my tank fix playing a death knight in WotLK.

they still have some weaknesses, but 2.3 overall buffed prot almost as much as it buffed ret, and that lesser degree of buffing still makes prot a lot more viable for a pally at 70 than ret is. so it's not just holy or bust with the class.

 

[Hero]

For PVE priests are probably the worst healing class in the game, followed by shamans. Paladins and druids are absolute must haves.

 

[Borys]

New "What's your game?" WoW ad:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/world-of-warcraft/van-damme-does-wow-331378.php?autoplay=true

MUST SEE.

 

[Jables]

For PVE priests are probably the worst healing class in the game, followed by shamans. Paladins and druids are absolute must haves.

I think that's very much a matter of what you consider "Best and Worst".

Paladins have the best Healing Nukes, far greater than a priest, shammy or druid.

Priest's are also another nuke healing class with a few HoTs that come in very helpful and some group heals (if I remember correctly).

Druid healers are all about HoTs, which come in REALLY helpful in fights that incorporate Silences on caster in your group and really help Nuke Healers like Pallies and Priests do their job efficiently as possible.

Shammy's are also really great with their super efficient chain heals, and I feel are very undervalued for this trait.

I've from the mouths of several healers (pallies, priests and druids) that if they could change classes, they would go Shammy for the healing efficiency.

So arguments can be made for many of the different classes. If I had a choice I'd go with a Shammy. Not only for the efficient heals, but also for the flexibility of changing over to a viable Melee or Caster DPS class. Though if you're looking for big shiny numbers from your heals, right now Pallies are the way to go.

Also keep in mind they're already talking about redesigning some of the Priest talents to make them the dominate healing class for the next xpac...whenever that is.

 

[DarkAngelYuna]

For PVE priests are probably the worst healing class in the game, followed by shamans. Paladins and druids are absolute must haves.

Couldn't be anymore wrong.

 

[speedpop]

New "What's your game?" WoW ad:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/world-of-warcraft/van-damme-does-wow-331378.php?autoplay=true

MUST SEE.

:lol That was awesome. Was wondering why there was a Van Damme thread in Gaming. I knew Blizzard were going to try and do every class. If they get Chuck Norris to do a Warrior, I think most people will flip with joy.

edit: Damn just checked the commercial part in their site, seems like they're planning on only doing five.

For PVE priests are probably the worst healing class in the game, followed by shamans. Paladins and druids are absolute must haves.

Never stopped myself or my guild from my Shaman being main healer in many instances and raids.

 

[Onemic]

Exactly what realm is the GAF alliance guild at?

 

[Eric WK]

Exactly what realm is the GAF alliance guild at?

Everyone on GAF is spread out. :/

 

[Hero]

Yeah, the shaman is a good choice because if you get bored of one thing you can go to another spec.

I'm not saying shamans and priests aren't effective, but when you compare what they bring to the table it's not as great as what you get out of druids (innervate, battle rez) or paladins (extra blessings, auras).

Edit:

Sorry, forgot to mention Bloodlust and Mana Tide. Those are awesome.

Shamans are excellent raid healers but druids are better for healing the main tank.

But yeah, there's absolutely no reason to bring a holy priest to a raid. Some of the top guilds don't even bring holy priests to their raids and if they do, it's only one. Nihilum and Death and Taxes don't, last I heard.

 

[Ashodin]

I'm not all too familiar with healing classes but I've always been under the impression that Paladins are currently the best nuke healing class in the game with their excessive mana pool. We have several Holy Paladins in my guild and they're all able to pump out a greater heals over a longer period of time without running low on mana.

I agree with the points you make about Paladins in relation to their limited in class functionality in comparison to other classes like Druids, and Shammy. Ret Pally's aren't really up to par with the DPS of some of the other classes yet, and leveling quickly is all about being able to do DPS. However, to say Paladins are probably the worst healing class because they don't have comparable DPS to other classes seem a bit misleading.

Also, I've seen my fair share of Tankadins in level 70 instances. When played right, they can be even better that a Warrior/Druid tank.

Uh. I play a Ret Paladin and I am consistently above several people on our DPS meters (in fact, coming almost at #1 sometimes, like Void Reaver and such) - it's true Ret is quite gear dependent, we need a lot of AP and crit before we start showing the numbers, but the truth is that we can consistently keep up our DPS as long as we have WF totem and some way of keeping up our mana reserves. With the new changes in 2.3.2 our judgements will start giving us back mana, so we'll last even longer.

That is to say, if you want to keep up your DPS near the top of the groups - if you don't have WF totem and you're not Blood Elf, say Hello to the 5-8 range of DPS.

 

[Eric P]

Exactly what realm is the GAF alliance guild at?

if you want a noob friendly guild, i have one on lothar. pm for details to avoid clogging up the thread.

 

[speedpop]

Yeah a sad thing for Holy Priests. I think Priests themselves suffer from being the hybrid healer and don't have distinctive abilities compared to the other 3 classes that can heal. In a sense Blizzard have narrowed the class into a corner and they essentially have both HoTs and cast heals.. but not as powerful as a Druid HoTs (even Healing Touch can be the most powerful heal in the game) or as stable and mana-conserving as a Paladin's heals.

Power Word: Fortitude and Fear Ward are really the only ones I can think of that will stand out in terms of buffs/abilities for the Priest class. Prayer of Mending tries to emulate something akin to Chain Heal but I've never known one to really rely upon it.

 

[Spruchy]

Ok contact me in game and I'll see what I can do.

Whats your in game name?

 

[Ramirez]

I really really really hate BW Hunters, christ.

 

[Hero]

Yeah a sad thing for Holy Priests. I think Priests themselves suffer from being the hybrid healer and don't have distinctive abilities compared to the other 3 classes that can heal. In a sense Blizzard have narrowed the class into a corner and they essentially have both HoTs and cast heals.. but not as powerful as a Druid HoTs (even Healing Touch can be the most powerful heal in the game) or as stable and mana-conserving as a Paladin's heals.

Power Word: Fortitude and Fear Ward are really the only ones I can think of that will stand out in terms of buffs/abilities for the Priest class. Prayer of Mending tries to emulate something akin to Chain Heal but I've never known one to really rely upon it.

Yeah, the worst thing is you don't need to be specced Holy to give your raid PW:F and FW. Shadow priests do pretty sick damage if there's a warlock around, not to mention offering utility and acting as a mana battery as well.

I take back my comments about resto shamans. In raids they rock. In 5 man heroics and PVP I'd take other classes though.

 

[speedpop]

Yeah Resto Shaman have limited scopes to how they operate in certain situations. Whilst I wouldn't agree with you that we're completely useless in PVP, having no real crowd control or anti-CC really hurts for the class as a whole (especially with Earth Shield being dispelled). But it's always viable and smart to take at least one of them with you to a raid. There have been too many times where I've left a raid chat on suspense for them to know when my ankh is on cooldown or not :lol

 

[Scrow]

I really really really hate BW Hunters, christ.

up there with rogues and warriors for my most hated class.

 

[firex]

I'm just going resto with my shaman when he's 70 because my duo partner is a warrior, and this way at 70 we'll have tank and healer already for instances. better than trusting random people for pugs in heroics. I'll change my spec if we decide to find some other people and do an arena team or something, though.

 

[Azwethinkweiz]

I really really really hate BW Hunters, christ.

Are you a caster? I would think you'd hate MM Hunters more due to silencing shot and scattershot keeping you unable to cast until you're dead.

Whats your in game name?

Bourne

 

[fallout]

I take back my comments about resto shamans. In raids they rock. In 5 man heroics and PVP I'd take other classes though.

Yeah, chain heal is by far the best group-heal spell in the game. Unfortunately, the shaman mana pool is the smallest of any caster and back when I was playing, mp5 gear was so hard to find that I spent most of my time wearing cloth in a raid (note: I did not steal items from priests/druids ... I only took it if it was going to be sharded). This is what ultimately kills them in a 5-man, because the HW is rather mana inefficient and slow, even with talents. You have to learn how to maximize your efficiency and you can be effective. It's just more difficult without a DoT and another "oh shit" button.

Oh, but PvP is nice. Chain heal is actually useful and rank 1 earthshock and purge can be very effective.

 

[crustikid]

Found this thread a couple days ago...I wouldn't say pallys aren't all that bad. they're great for pvp, but check this thread out: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=3168521831&sid=1&pageNo=1

 

[Flambe]

Yeah Resto Shaman have limited scopes to how they operate in certain situations. Whilst I wouldn't agree with you that we're completely useless in PVP, having no real crowd control or anti-CC really hurts for the class as a whole (especially with Earth Shield being dispelled).

Go down like a wet paper bag after ES is dispelled (instantly), so other than popping heroism for the other people we don't get to contribute a whole lot in arenas =\ Battlegrounds are a bit better with Chain Heal hehe.


As for PvE, I've only done a few heroics, but in stuff like Mana ****s first boss I can't do shit. So much aoe damage with people being spread out = useless chain heal. Normal fight/bosses I do quite well in though.

 

[fallout]

Oh, and I forgot to mention Mana Tide, which is the quite possibly the most undervalued PvP item in the game. I know people will say that smart players will tab over it to it, but it works so fast that even if it's only up for half the time, that's still a huge mana boost in a tight situation.

 

[firex]

I found even as a holy pally it was tough to heal a lot of stuff in heroics, because you pretty much can only focus on the tank until you have a bunch of healing epics. but by then heroics are useless for you unless you just want badges to build up an alternate set. A lot of stuff in WoW, especially raids/heroics, seems designed largely around having one class/spec to counter the fight.

like the time I had good success in heroic MT with my pally, we had ranged dps for the first boss, along with an enhance shaman and a tank with an insane shadow resist set.

and I read that whole freaking priest thread and all I can say is the guy has good opinions, but man is it long-winded and full of the insane number-crunching that blizzard fans always do to the point that it sucks the fun out of everything. I agree with him saying holy pallies are the antithesis of fun, though. they are just boring to play altogether because healing is all about 2 spells and refreshing buffs, and it feels very controlled and pointless because nobody should die unless the dps/cc fucks up and lets stuff get out of hand. and when you aren't healing a group you're going to get bored if you solo grind anything, though maybe that's better in 2.3 (probably not).

I still feel like the paladin is a lame class overall, but it's just that they do nothing cool, unless you like seeing big numbers pop up infrequently. they aren't a crap class, but they kind of remind me of Medic in TF2. except in TF2 when you run around healing someone you can still have fun dodging attackers coming after you.

that's why if I was going to play a healer I would pick priest/shaman (easiest to synthesize gear so you can heal and solo dps, even if talents don't stack/aren't readily available for both) first, then druid (for all the swiss army knife utility) and last, paladin. I had more fun, pug stupidities aside, playing my paladin as prot. but it was tough to get past the WoW userbase stigma against prot paladins, and on the server where my pally is, my other friends played a super-geared feral druid, a super-geared enhance shaman, and a rogue. so the real best role for me was boring healbot.

tl;dr version: If you could set autofollow distance to ~35 yards behind a target, macro your buff refreshes and the pathing let you genuinely follow someone through an instance, you could bot a pally just by following the tank and putting a bobbing bird on your holy light/flash of light hotkey.

 

[ToyMachine228]

I found even as a holy pally it was tough to heal a lot of stuff in heroics, because you pretty much can only focus on the tank until you have a bunch of healing epics. but by then heroics are useless for you unless you just want badges to build up an alternate set. A lot of stuff in WoW, especially raids/heroics, seems designed largely around having one class/spec to counter the fight.

Solo healing Heroics as a Paladin is definitely a challenge, but definitely doable. Use Holy Shock to your advantage for an instant heal, and use Divine Favor to your advantage when you stop healing the tank to heal the rest of the party. Draenei Paladins have a slight advantage because they have Gift of the Naaru which gives the Paladin a HoT. I also always wanted that trinket that procs and puts a HoT on your target. I believe it drops in Hyjal. That would be my ultimate PvE healer.

 

[Ramirez]

Are you a caster? I would think you'd hate MM Hunters more due to silencing shot and scattershot keeping you unable to cast until you're dead.

I'm a shitty geared 67 warrior at the moment, if the hunter can kite there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop them.

 

[firex]

yeah, I completed pretty much every heroic I healed as a holy pally. I'm just saying there were a few fights that were pretty tough due to no HoT or other good mobile stuff that could still keep people healed.

 

[TheDrizzlerJ11]

Oh, and I forgot to mention Mana Tide, which is the quite possibly the most undervalued PvP item in the game. I know people will say that smart players will tab over it to it, but it works so fast that even if it's only up for half the time, that's still a huge mana boost in a tight situation.

Used to play back in the day, most underrated pvp item for hunters was rapid fire.

Rapid -> Scatter -> Aimed.

although now they've nubbed down kiting quite a bit i hear. still was also sick to get an aimed in before your trap was up.

 

[firex]

so I did uldaman a couple days ago, and it's pretty awesome now. the 2.3 nerf to instances so they no longer have a gigantic level gap makes Uldaman in particular a lot better, since none of the bosses go beyond level 40 now. so it's a very nice change of pace from the typical SM cathedral/RFD runs.

 

[speedpop]

Uldaman was one of my favourite instances back in the day. An awesome instance to run through.

 

[Alex]

Shamans, the worst PvE healer? Are you serious? They're the BEST PvE healer at the moment. Guilds going into BT shit themselves trying to spam recruit Resto Shamans.

Paladins fell out of vogue back in S1/early raiding. And in no possible way is Priest bad in raiding, that's like the tune of the a PMC wearing chowderhead back in a failing SSC guild. Are you posting this nonsense from a time pocket 10 months ago?

Arena is really depressing me as far as the welfare of the game goes. They've absolutely ruined the class balance in this game for arena. I have a Gladiator freaking rated team and it still bugs me. Having to turn down friends and guild mates, because of their class.

Look at the tournament coverage on MMOChampion for Dreamhack and CGS, it's just the same shit WALLPAPERED. I hope the venue isn't so forced on PvPers in WotLK, but that's a pretty empty hope.

Maybe I'm just tired of arena, too. We're back up to 1900 so far, and it's just the same shit. Same strategy, same classes, same everything every time. There is no skill whatsoever in it anymore. 2v2/3v3 is some of the worst balanced gameplay I've ever seen, 5v5 is just cookie cutter variants based off of the FOTM.

If Blizzard would figure out what exactly theyre trying to balance the game for, or do the smart thing with a tournament level game and separate the PvE and PvP systems, it'd work out =/