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World of Warcraft
- Thread starter Cerebral Palsy
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all I can say about paladins is you'd better enjoy healing or tanking because that's all they're accepted for at 70. mostly healing, too, with everyone being all about arena.Kintaro said:
Personally I don't think I will ever play my pally again... it was a fun grind until 40+ and then it was essentially something where I could alt-tab and watch youtube or check GAF while killing mobs for quests.
firex said:
Agreed. I currently have a 70 Paladin armed to the teeth in Arena gear. Only play a Pally if you want to heal. Paladin is not a very dynamic class, but it owns at what it does best (healing efficiency, never-ending mana pool, invulnerability).
If I were you, I would go Priest or Warlock. Those classes provide quite a few more options than Hunter or Pally.
Crystalkoen
Member
Kintaro said:
A rundown of the classes you asked about:
Priest: As Holy/Disc, expect to be playing Whack-a-Mole in groups/raids with your heals, unless your guild/raiding group is strict on healing assignments. As Holy or Discipline in PvP, you're terribly difficult to kill, but not a damage threat to anyone. From the Shadow side, you're a great utility DPS class. Any raid benefits from you being there, whether from Misery increasing spell damage by 5% on the target, or from you giving mana back to a healer/caster DPS group. Any 5-man, on the other hand, you may as well just be another DPS, lacking any real Crowd Control that doesn't also remove you from the fight. Useful for a group with a Paladin tank and Shaman healer.
Paladin: You're either a Healer, or a Tank for any raiding/group purposes. Sure, Ret can push out some great damage, and certainly has PvP uses, but you're strictly tied to your mana, and when IT runs out (which it does quickly), you're only slightly more valuable than the Holy Priest for damage output... although a grouped Shaman with Windfury Totem down really bumps up your damage output. As a tank, you can tank just about any fight in the game, provided your gear can support it (some fights, like Archimonde, are best served with a Warrior just because of 100% reliable fear breaks not involving shaman or priests). As a healer, your heals are crazy efficient and fast, and it's not hard for a single paladin to keep a tank up in 10-man raids all by themselves. Having to keep a group up, though, is the Achilles' Heel of the class, since you're forever limited to a single target every 1.5-2 seconds.
Hunter: I'm no expert on this class, despite having one at level 62. From what I've experienced, shot rotations in groups/raids are the hardest part of the class, although I could be wrong. On the PvP side, you can Turn Red and have crazy survivability/kiting ability for the 15 seconds Beastial Wrath and Beast Within are working. Otherwise, you're just another ranged DPS with limited CC abilities on either the PvE, or the PvP side of the spectrum.
Warlock: Warlocks are one of those classes that truly have a line of skill: If you're bad, you're terribly bad (like getting out-DPS'd by the tank in your group). If you're good, you're incredibly good (Like soloing 2-3 semi-skilled opponents in PvP, or keeping 6 mobs in combat at all times and never being in danger of death or becoming overwhelmed). If you're mediocre, you'll easily get by, managing to be formidible in many situations, but never standing out. Incredible utility in this class, both in PvE AND PvP. Like all DPS, you have a rotation of abilities you use, and maintaining that rotation as tightly as possible is where the challenge of the class lies in groups/raiding. In PvP, proper use of your pet abilities (never set your pet to auto-anything in PvP, thus resulting in a large amount of micromanagement) is a huge factor in your skill, and ability to win.
Crystalkoen said:
Dude warlocks are the I Win class. They are too good that it's almost boring to play as. I don't think they have as much micromanagement as you let on. Maybe a weaker spec may have more? In PVP it's all about SL/SL, and as far as I know, that doesn't require much skill.
BloodElfHunter said:
Have you been to tier 5/6 encounters? Or did some arena in a high bracket? I myself am not hardcore enough to have, but I have many friends who have and have watched said encounters. This is no easy feat by any stretch of the imagination. Now farming honor in AV; not so much
. That's the only point I was trying to make. I see your point, but I think the the game is just easy for the trip to 70 and a minority of 70 content.Proc said:Have you been to tier 5/6 encounters? Or did some arena in a high bracket? I myself am not hardcore enough to have, but I have many friends who have and have watched said encounters. This is no easy feat by any stretch of the imagination. Now farming honor in AV; not so much
tier 5 encounters aren't like they were back in February. Much easier now.
But the T6 raids are classic hard.
If I'm going to break down every class I'll take it from the pve side, and judge them in 3 categories: solo, 5 man, and raids.
Shaman: lots of versatility in this class, and after 2.3 they can solo with enhance and actually use some shocks now. Which means it's no longer auto-attack + stormstrike when it's off cooldown. Their class defining system, though (totems) is useless while soloing unless you aggro a large group, or if you're soloing an elite. At 70, if you are elemental/resto spec and geared out, you can also kick ass while soloing quite easily, though elemental can be tough unless you invest in the eye of the storm talent, which is seriously more of a pvp talent. Grouping, each spec can get by easily. This is where you use totems, and enhance also buffs the group by meleeing. Elemental doesn't bring any specific buffs from dpsing, which sucks, but it does provide pretty consistent caster dps. Resto is a great healer that requires a lot of mana per 5 seconds gear to sustain its mp, although 2.3.2 makes a huge stride for this with the new water shield. In raids, all 3 specs are also equally appreciated (or should be, anyway) though I would say that resto has the edge in a 10 man raid since other dps/caster classes have more utility.
Solo: B+
5 man: B
Raid: B+
Paladin: by far the best, and biggest range, of buffs in the game, so they can benefit any group pretty easily. Solo is annoying unless you spec ret/prot and twink out with some great gear. For 5 mans, you are pretty indispensable because of your buffs, and you can heal/tank pretty effectively based upon your spec. Raiding is maybe the weakest link for paladins as a healer, because they only have direct heals, although they also have super strong and efficient heals, so they're an excellent tank healer. They're also an excellent tank, especially on fights where you need someone to hold multiple mobs.
Solo: D
5 man: A+
Raid: A-
Druid: solo is easy with this class if you are feral or balance. Balance is an underlooked spec, even by blizzard themselves (seriously, you have to poach from warlock/mage cloth, tailoring, or get a set from badges/raids to get caster gear for the most part) but it also excels at soloing. It can be tedious compared to feral, since you essentially moonfire, root, and starfire/wrath your enemies to death, but arcane/nature immune are the least encountered mobs in the game (rock elementals are immune to nature and that's about all I can think of) and when you do run into something that's nature immune, you can always switch to arcane. Feral solo is awesome, but don't expect it to be just like a warrior/rogue. you do good dps, but in my experience a lot of it is more sustained and with less big crits. In 5 mans, a druid is surprisingly awesome. They can tank easily with feral spec and bear gear, dps, and heal. Balance is one of the more hated specs for 5 manning, yet ironically it's a very good heal spec due to the regen talent, int->damage/healing talent, and being able to go 5/5 imp. MotW and 3/3 intensity out of resto and stack even more regen, plus still having innervate. Raiding makes each spec viable, just like with shamans, though I would argue that balance probably gets the shaft in 10 man raids compared to 25 mans. Balance/feral specs' auras really make them beneficial in raids since you can configure groups to make them even stronger.
Solo: A+ (grinding can be slow sometimes, but they are gods of solo on par with hunter/warlock)
5 man: B
Raid: A- (tanking is their one weakness in raids since there aren't a lot of good feral tank drops from raids, but this is where you put them in a dps group with rogues and an enhance shaman to provide damage support)
Priest: Shadow is the most preferred solo spec because it's easy to get, but people have discovered some decent holy/disc leveling builds as well. The benefit of those builds is there is no holy resist, and obviously they won't be cut off from healing spells, so they can pop into instances while grinding and heal away. That build probably requires a bit of twinkage, though, and I'd still say it needs 5 points into spirit tap. Anyway, solo is something they get better and better at as they go along. Healing is where they're the strangest - they have, by far, the best selection of healing spells since they have a heal for every situation, but they're jack of all trades, master of none. Most people don't even want holy/disc priests on raids anymore compared to shadow, but if a guild needs healers they won't turn down a healing priest... truthfully, I think blizzard made shadow have so much group utility because they wanted all the priests who spent ages before TBC doing nothing but healing to have the option to do something else, since healing is by far the least fun job I have done in WoW. Anyway, their two specs are great for raiding. Either they have versatile heals, or they have versatile dps that keeps a group's mana up, which makes them great for a healer group especially. I think this class's dps potential with shadow really comes into play in raiding.
Solo: C+ (definitely not their strong suit, though from 40+ on they are very, very good soloers with shadow talents)
5 man: B+
Raid: B-
Warrior: these guys kick ass if you spec them for dps, which you should do until 70 (and even after then, but what I mean is if you really want to be a prot tank, don't bother until 70). Solo, they can chew up mobs one after the other, and just get better as they get higher level and get better gear. They do require pretty hefty gear maintenance/upgrading to stay sharp, but that's why you run instances. 5 mans, they tank and that's it. A warrior dpsing in a 5 man is very, very rare - at least in the sense of just being there for dps. A dps warrior tanking a 5 man is very, very common - all they need is a good set of tank gear and they can handle any 5 man you throw at them for the most part. Definitely the most equipped tank in terms of abilities. The bulk of their skills honestly are related to tanking, but they pick up kickass dps skills along either the arms or fury tree. Raiding is where a warrior can get the option to dps/offtank, sometimes doing pure dps (though probably less with the 25 man raids in TBC). In this case, they have blood frenzy to buff everyone else's physical damage, which gives them some nice utility to go along with their awesome dps.
Solo: A- (only falls behind the druid, warlock and hunter IMO, but prot spec would be the same as a pally or worse)
5 man: B+ (only knocked down from an A because there's very little opportunity for a warrior to go pure dps in a 5 man)
Raid: A- (either a tank for nearly any situation, or a dpser who indirectly buffs your raid's dps)
Rogue: it's going to be straight-up dps with this class no matter what. Solo, they're pretty good killers who get better as they get better gear, just like a warrior. Stealth lets them skip a lot of content, which is nice. Pickpocketing can earn little bits of extra cash or potions. Poisons are pretty nice now that they don't have charges, although having to level up the poison skill like a profession is annoying. In 5 mans, they bring sap for some CC, stuns, and their poisons may get a bit more work. Raids are more of the same, though at least pre-TBC most raid mobs were immune to stuns/sap. They provide some reliable low-threat dps. My one big gripe with the class is the energy cost of their skills - with how many strides blizzard has made to make mana regen better for casters, and the low rage cost for similar dps output to rogue skills, it feels like the energy cost for a lot of their attacks is too high. White damage makes up most of their dps anyway, but I still think blizzard could do something to balance rogue skill costs, or energy regen or something.
Solo: B
5 man: B+
Raid: B-
Mage: I like their dps, but I find the class pretty boring to play, personally. They stand there and nuke... that's about it. Low health makes them annoying to solo with until you're a higher level, since they drop pretty fast. Mana regen can be annoying, you never have to pay for food/water and you can conjure your own mana potions (basically) on their own timer, so at least downtime costs nothing and you can sometimes end it quickly. They have an easy to use CC spell with polymorph, which handles the majority of instance/grinding mobs, but is more useful while soloing as something to pull a pair of mobs with than something to use mid-combat since it will only buy you time for mana regen or an easy escape. In 5 mans/raids you have someone else to take the hits for you, so your nuking can really take off, but again you usually have to drink at the end of a fight. Plus you're expected to give everyone food/water, which can be annoying (especially when a hunter harasses you for a stack of food for their pet). Teleports cut down your travel time, and you can sell the shattrath portal to lowbies in Org/UC for the horde, or Candyland for the alliance. A decent soloer because of raw dps, but truly shines in groups where they only have to watch their aggro and their sheep.
Solo: B-
5 man: A (I would take a mage on just about any 5 man in the game, even if it doesn't have anything they can sheep)
Raids: A- (mana regen can be a problem for them, but they still provide some powerful dps and satisfying big numbers on spell crits)
Hunter: probably the most mind-numbing class I have soloed with, yet amazingly fun in groups, and equally awesome at both. They start out weak until level 10, then they get their pet and don't look back. The only drawback is giving up a bag space for a quiver/ammo bag. Great utility in groups in the form of a pet offtank on weaker mobs, freeze trap to CC anything and excellent sustainable high dps and easy threat management. I don't know what hunters really bring to raids in TBC, but pre-TBC it was essentially good dps, tranq shot, and little/no threat.
Solo: A+
5 man: A-
Raids: C+ (their big weakness, probably)
Warlock: everybody hates warlocks unless they play one, saying they are easy mode, etc. but they have some challenge to them. They are awesome soloers and have a lot of group utility, but they take time to really get strong. TBC put them on another level, which is fine because it essentially made them feel much more complete than they did pre-TBC (where they were fun, but still felt like half-assed mages with pets and a taxi service for fucktards). Unlike hunters, they are awesome in raids. Unlike mages, they get tons more HP and good ways to replenish it, and never have to worry about their mana. What used to feel like a shitty cross between a hunter and a mage is now a pretty awesome class that meets them in the middle and then smashes their heads together like Moe in the Three Stooges.
Solo: A+
5 man: A
Raids: A
I should close this by again stating that I'm only ranking them on pve. I have like no experience with arena in WoW, and honestly don't even have that much TBC raid experience, but I know they didn't change up that much of the classes (aside from priests, shamans and druids anyway) for the raid game. pvp is a totally different animal, even if it works under like 95% of the same rules as pve does, so I'll leave that to someone else to decide.
Shaman: lots of versatility in this class, and after 2.3 they can solo with enhance and actually use some shocks now. Which means it's no longer auto-attack + stormstrike when it's off cooldown. Their class defining system, though (totems) is useless while soloing unless you aggro a large group, or if you're soloing an elite. At 70, if you are elemental/resto spec and geared out, you can also kick ass while soloing quite easily, though elemental can be tough unless you invest in the eye of the storm talent, which is seriously more of a pvp talent. Grouping, each spec can get by easily. This is where you use totems, and enhance also buffs the group by meleeing. Elemental doesn't bring any specific buffs from dpsing, which sucks, but it does provide pretty consistent caster dps. Resto is a great healer that requires a lot of mana per 5 seconds gear to sustain its mp, although 2.3.2 makes a huge stride for this with the new water shield. In raids, all 3 specs are also equally appreciated (or should be, anyway) though I would say that resto has the edge in a 10 man raid since other dps/caster classes have more utility.
Solo: B+
5 man: B
Raid: B+
Paladin: by far the best, and biggest range, of buffs in the game, so they can benefit any group pretty easily. Solo is annoying unless you spec ret/prot and twink out with some great gear. For 5 mans, you are pretty indispensable because of your buffs, and you can heal/tank pretty effectively based upon your spec. Raiding is maybe the weakest link for paladins as a healer, because they only have direct heals, although they also have super strong and efficient heals, so they're an excellent tank healer. They're also an excellent tank, especially on fights where you need someone to hold multiple mobs.
Solo: D
5 man: A+
Raid: A-
Druid: solo is easy with this class if you are feral or balance. Balance is an underlooked spec, even by blizzard themselves (seriously, you have to poach from warlock/mage cloth, tailoring, or get a set from badges/raids to get caster gear for the most part) but it also excels at soloing. It can be tedious compared to feral, since you essentially moonfire, root, and starfire/wrath your enemies to death, but arcane/nature immune are the least encountered mobs in the game (rock elementals are immune to nature and that's about all I can think of) and when you do run into something that's nature immune, you can always switch to arcane. Feral solo is awesome, but don't expect it to be just like a warrior/rogue. you do good dps, but in my experience a lot of it is more sustained and with less big crits. In 5 mans, a druid is surprisingly awesome. They can tank easily with feral spec and bear gear, dps, and heal. Balance is one of the more hated specs for 5 manning, yet ironically it's a very good heal spec due to the regen talent, int->damage/healing talent, and being able to go 5/5 imp. MotW and 3/3 intensity out of resto and stack even more regen, plus still having innervate. Raiding makes each spec viable, just like with shamans, though I would argue that balance probably gets the shaft in 10 man raids compared to 25 mans. Balance/feral specs' auras really make them beneficial in raids since you can configure groups to make them even stronger.
Solo: A+ (grinding can be slow sometimes, but they are gods of solo on par with hunter/warlock)
5 man: B
Raid: A- (tanking is their one weakness in raids since there aren't a lot of good feral tank drops from raids, but this is where you put them in a dps group with rogues and an enhance shaman to provide damage support)
Priest: Shadow is the most preferred solo spec because it's easy to get, but people have discovered some decent holy/disc leveling builds as well. The benefit of those builds is there is no holy resist, and obviously they won't be cut off from healing spells, so they can pop into instances while grinding and heal away. That build probably requires a bit of twinkage, though, and I'd still say it needs 5 points into spirit tap. Anyway, solo is something they get better and better at as they go along. Healing is where they're the strangest - they have, by far, the best selection of healing spells since they have a heal for every situation, but they're jack of all trades, master of none. Most people don't even want holy/disc priests on raids anymore compared to shadow, but if a guild needs healers they won't turn down a healing priest... truthfully, I think blizzard made shadow have so much group utility because they wanted all the priests who spent ages before TBC doing nothing but healing to have the option to do something else, since healing is by far the least fun job I have done in WoW. Anyway, their two specs are great for raiding. Either they have versatile heals, or they have versatile dps that keeps a group's mana up, which makes them great for a healer group especially. I think this class's dps potential with shadow really comes into play in raiding.
Solo: C+ (definitely not their strong suit, though from 40+ on they are very, very good soloers with shadow talents)
5 man: B+
Raid: B-
Warrior: these guys kick ass if you spec them for dps, which you should do until 70 (and even after then, but what I mean is if you really want to be a prot tank, don't bother until 70). Solo, they can chew up mobs one after the other, and just get better as they get higher level and get better gear. They do require pretty hefty gear maintenance/upgrading to stay sharp, but that's why you run instances. 5 mans, they tank and that's it. A warrior dpsing in a 5 man is very, very rare - at least in the sense of just being there for dps. A dps warrior tanking a 5 man is very, very common - all they need is a good set of tank gear and they can handle any 5 man you throw at them for the most part. Definitely the most equipped tank in terms of abilities. The bulk of their skills honestly are related to tanking, but they pick up kickass dps skills along either the arms or fury tree. Raiding is where a warrior can get the option to dps/offtank, sometimes doing pure dps (though probably less with the 25 man raids in TBC). In this case, they have blood frenzy to buff everyone else's physical damage, which gives them some nice utility to go along with their awesome dps.
Solo: A- (only falls behind the druid, warlock and hunter IMO, but prot spec would be the same as a pally or worse)
5 man: B+ (only knocked down from an A because there's very little opportunity for a warrior to go pure dps in a 5 man)
Raid: A- (either a tank for nearly any situation, or a dpser who indirectly buffs your raid's dps)
Rogue: it's going to be straight-up dps with this class no matter what. Solo, they're pretty good killers who get better as they get better gear, just like a warrior. Stealth lets them skip a lot of content, which is nice. Pickpocketing can earn little bits of extra cash or potions. Poisons are pretty nice now that they don't have charges, although having to level up the poison skill like a profession is annoying. In 5 mans, they bring sap for some CC, stuns, and their poisons may get a bit more work. Raids are more of the same, though at least pre-TBC most raid mobs were immune to stuns/sap. They provide some reliable low-threat dps. My one big gripe with the class is the energy cost of their skills - with how many strides blizzard has made to make mana regen better for casters, and the low rage cost for similar dps output to rogue skills, it feels like the energy cost for a lot of their attacks is too high. White damage makes up most of their dps anyway, but I still think blizzard could do something to balance rogue skill costs, or energy regen or something.
Solo: B
5 man: B+
Raid: B-
Mage: I like their dps, but I find the class pretty boring to play, personally. They stand there and nuke... that's about it. Low health makes them annoying to solo with until you're a higher level, since they drop pretty fast. Mana regen can be annoying, you never have to pay for food/water and you can conjure your own mana potions (basically) on their own timer, so at least downtime costs nothing and you can sometimes end it quickly. They have an easy to use CC spell with polymorph, which handles the majority of instance/grinding mobs, but is more useful while soloing as something to pull a pair of mobs with than something to use mid-combat since it will only buy you time for mana regen or an easy escape. In 5 mans/raids you have someone else to take the hits for you, so your nuking can really take off, but again you usually have to drink at the end of a fight. Plus you're expected to give everyone food/water, which can be annoying (especially when a hunter harasses you for a stack of food for their pet). Teleports cut down your travel time, and you can sell the shattrath portal to lowbies in Org/UC for the horde, or Candyland for the alliance. A decent soloer because of raw dps, but truly shines in groups where they only have to watch their aggro and their sheep.
Solo: B-
5 man: A (I would take a mage on just about any 5 man in the game, even if it doesn't have anything they can sheep)
Raids: A- (mana regen can be a problem for them, but they still provide some powerful dps and satisfying big numbers on spell crits)
Hunter: probably the most mind-numbing class I have soloed with, yet amazingly fun in groups, and equally awesome at both. They start out weak until level 10, then they get their pet and don't look back. The only drawback is giving up a bag space for a quiver/ammo bag. Great utility in groups in the form of a pet offtank on weaker mobs, freeze trap to CC anything and excellent sustainable high dps and easy threat management. I don't know what hunters really bring to raids in TBC, but pre-TBC it was essentially good dps, tranq shot, and little/no threat.
Solo: A+
5 man: A-
Raids: C+ (their big weakness, probably)
Warlock: everybody hates warlocks unless they play one, saying they are easy mode, etc. but they have some challenge to them. They are awesome soloers and have a lot of group utility, but they take time to really get strong. TBC put them on another level, which is fine because it essentially made them feel much more complete than they did pre-TBC (where they were fun, but still felt like half-assed mages with pets and a taxi service for fucktards). Unlike hunters, they are awesome in raids. Unlike mages, they get tons more HP and good ways to replenish it, and never have to worry about their mana. What used to feel like a shitty cross between a hunter and a mage is now a pretty awesome class that meets them in the middle and then smashes their heads together like Moe in the Three Stooges.
Solo: A+
5 man: A
Raids: A
I should close this by again stating that I'm only ranking them on pve. I have like no experience with arena in WoW, and honestly don't even have that much TBC raid experience, but I know they didn't change up that much of the classes (aside from priests, shamans and druids anyway) for the raid game. pvp is a totally different animal, even if it works under like 95% of the same rules as pve does, so I'll leave that to someone else to decide.
Alex
Member
I disagree with a few points on Fire's summary. I find Warriors that aren't decked to be really lousy solo. +10% damage taken, poor mitigation, no escapes.
Also, Shadow Priests are one of the best leveling/solo specs in the game.
Lastly Hunters are fucking psychotic on raids, a good BM Hunter that isn't popping macros and knows what they're doing is essentially a ranged Rogue with solid utility. The week I quit raiding, we had a recruit in Karazhan gear + Vashj's bow who had been in a pretty all-star guild pre-BC put out over 1450 sustained DPS on Fathomlord.
You could argue that you don't need them, but you could argue that for several others as well. The fact that it's deathly hard to find a Hunter that can do their job well and isn't a macro popping moron is a big minus on the class though.
Also, Shadow Priests are one of the best leveling/solo specs in the game.
Lastly Hunters are fucking psychotic on raids, a good BM Hunter that isn't popping macros and knows what they're doing is essentially a ranged Rogue with solid utility. The week I quit raiding, we had a recruit in Karazhan gear + Vashj's bow who had been in a pretty all-star guild pre-BC put out over 1450 sustained DPS on Fathomlord.
You could argue that you don't need them, but you could argue that for several others as well. The fact that it's deathly hard to find a Hunter that can do their job well and isn't a macro popping moron is a big minus on the class though.
well, that was the thing with my warrior summary. I gave them a good solo mark assuming you have good gear for them and spec arms/fury, otherwise they stink as bad as paladins.
I have like no TBC raiding experience outside of 10 man stuff though, so I don't really know what's the new hotness on 25 mans aside from the big stuff, like the community loving shadow priests over holy priests and hybrids actually being viable as more than a heal spec now. I just know I basically never saw hunters on the 10 man stuff I went on, but they were still awesome dps (way better than pre-TBC, I'd say) and at least add a little more utility/buffs from their pets now. my own hunter has never gotten to do any raiding, and probably never will, but I don't mind. maybe I should have just given N/A grades for some of these since I don't have enough stuff to go on...
on the shadow priest thing though, I gave them a lower solo rating because of how weak they are before 30. after 30 they get awesome, at least in my experience, and especially at 40+. I just hate, hate, hate leveling up 1-30 as a priest... maybe my least favorite class to play at that level range.
I have like no TBC raiding experience outside of 10 man stuff though, so I don't really know what's the new hotness on 25 mans aside from the big stuff, like the community loving shadow priests over holy priests and hybrids actually being viable as more than a heal spec now. I just know I basically never saw hunters on the 10 man stuff I went on, but they were still awesome dps (way better than pre-TBC, I'd say) and at least add a little more utility/buffs from their pets now. my own hunter has never gotten to do any raiding, and probably never will, but I don't mind. maybe I should have just given N/A grades for some of these since I don't have enough stuff to go on...
on the shadow priest thing though, I gave them a lower solo rating because of how weak they are before 30. after 30 they get awesome, at least in my experience, and especially at 40+. I just hate, hate, hate leveling up 1-30 as a priest... maybe my least favorite class to play at that level range.
I don't agree with the Warrior's A- for solo'ing. You don't really have any "Oh fuck" buttons for when you pull too many mobs (Intimidating Shout only tends to pull more mobs) outside of the ones that are on a 30 minute cooldown. Escaping a situation gone bad can be fairly difficult. You have no way to kite while dealing damage, and no way to heal yourself. Solo'ing Elites even below your level can be tough unless you are very well geared.
For general quests where it's just 1v1 with the mobs I guess it's okay -- but still kind of slow-going (lots of eating and bandaging). But compare it to the uber-classes that can grind all day with very little downtime, and extensive kiting/escaping capabilities. I don't think it should just be a couple notches below warlocks.
Good rundown on warlocks, though I don't think I could give them an A for 5-mans, just because I don't feel like they have truly reliable CC (maybe I just never found the right Seduction macro).
For general quests where it's just 1v1 with the mobs I guess it's okay -- but still kind of slow-going (lots of eating and bandaging). But compare it to the uber-classes that can grind all day with very little downtime, and extensive kiting/escaping capabilities. I don't think it should just be a couple notches below warlocks.
Good rundown on warlocks, though I don't think I could give them an A for 5-mans, just because I don't feel like they have truly reliable CC (maybe I just never found the right Seduction macro).
I've really never had a problem handling 2-3 mobs back to back as a warrior. focus all you want on what they don't have, but what they do have is awesome dps that can take out virtually anything they have to kill for quests, without messing with stuff like stealth, and their naturally high HP.
With a Warrior it feels like all I have to do to get rolling is get a crit, and then solo grinding is just a big long procession of mob corpses.
With a Warrior it feels like all I have to do to get rolling is get a crit, and then solo grinding is just a big long procession of mob corpses.
You are right about druid soloing, especially in Outlands. The greens in outlands really buff feral and having flight form at 68 let me solo some SMV group quests. Fly over mobs, stealth around to your main objective, fly out.
Also, my shaman is the fasting leveling character I have had. Enhancement levels so fast and easy.
And the Warlock soloing goes for any spec besides Desto. I leveled Desto, because I'm insane and it was much harder than my Druid, Hunter or Shaman. Then I made a horde afflic lock and it was easy mode. Desto causes so much threat without the survivability skills of the other specs that your pet only gives you about 2-3 seconds of protection before the mob comes.
Also, my shaman is the fasting leveling character I have had. Enhancement levels so fast and easy.
And the Warlock soloing goes for any spec besides Desto. I leveled Desto, because I'm insane and it was much harder than my Druid, Hunter or Shaman. Then I made a horde afflic lock and it was easy mode. Desto causes so much threat without the survivability skills of the other specs that your pet only gives you about 2-3 seconds of protection before the mob comes.
yeah, I never soloed ever as destro except for a brief bit during TBC beta. but I'm mostly going with accepted solo builds for each class, and the lock one is just absurd. my shaman's also leveled up really fast (in fact, that's why I haven't played him in awhile; I was like 8 levels ahead of my friend when he was gone for a week) but that's post-2.3. I would say before 2.0 when they got dual wield, and 2.3 when they got a ton of enhance buffs, they were one of the weaker soloing classes. Better than a paladin by a huge margin since they can at least do some dps, but worse than the other dps classes.
what's funny is I've never really leveled a druid past 20, but I have a friend who's played druid like mad before and after TBC and it was just crazy seeing all the awesome stuff he could do as feral, and all the reps he would grind up super fast when he had nothing else to do. meanwhile, if they had gear available, I would totally level up a balance druid just to show people how awesome they are. given how few balance druids are out there, blizzard will probably never nerf the spec... which is funny, because it really is insanely strong with the right gear. that's the problem for it, though.
what's funny is I've never really leveled a druid past 20, but I have a friend who's played druid like mad before and after TBC and it was just crazy seeing all the awesome stuff he could do as feral, and all the reps he would grind up super fast when he had nothing else to do. meanwhile, if they had gear available, I would totally level up a balance druid just to show people how awesome they are. given how few balance druids are out there, blizzard will probably never nerf the spec... which is funny, because it really is insanely strong with the right gear. that's the problem for it, though.
Crystalkoen
Member
Of note about warriors in raiding:
Properly geared (ie. sporting the best DPS gear in a slot, regardless of being leather/mail/plate), they will almost always top the damage meters for any given fight, so long as they have windfury (which really makes or breaks a warrior) and are DW Fury specced, and your tank(s) don't suck, so the DPS warrior doesn't have a low threat cap. This remains true from Karazhan all the way to Illidan. Arms isn't a DPS spec, it's a PvP/Support spec (as was mentioned earlier about Blood Frenzy, as well as Imp Thunderclap), so will have a hard time topping meters.
On rogue energy costs/regen:
I've been playing a rogue since open beta, done 70 levels and every fight in the game other than Sapphiron/Kel'Thuzad, and I can safely say that we would be disgustingly overpowered if we had some way of getting back more energy at a faster rate (even Combat Potency makes a huge difference), or cutting our energy costs at all (aside from openers, like the one talent in Subtelty that cuts Garrote/Cheap Shot to 40 energy). Imagine, if you will, a rogue having a talent similar to a druid's that reduced their backstab energy cost by, say, 10. Said rogue could Ambush and immediately Backstab after the GC without missing a beat, or needing an energy tick. If we're talking non-arenas, that rogue could pop a Thistle Tea and Backstab again on the next energy tick. In T5-T6/S2-S3 gear with an appropriate mainhand, only a Bear Form Druid or Warrior could hope to survive the fight past that, most anyone else will have just taken 7-8k damage, creating a VERY favorable situation for the rogue. And that's just the PvP side. PvE, it's already not hard to get top X (where X is number of rogues and DPS warriors in your raid) on damage meters with just a shaman for WF/SoE. Throw in a Feral Druid, and it gets even better. Now, cut our energy costs to go along with Combat Potency's restorative effect, and it'd just be utterly stupid how much damage we put out in raid encounters. Couple that with our ability to just shed threat from any value to 0 in the touch of a button, and I'd say we're fine where we are for now, at least from a PvE standpoint (not to say that I'm not jealous of what some other classes get to bring to the table).
As for Holy Priests, they're really effective at raid healing in the 25-man instances, and getting the +25% armor to proc on the tank when healing him makes keeping said tank alive much easier.
Properly geared (ie. sporting the best DPS gear in a slot, regardless of being leather/mail/plate), they will almost always top the damage meters for any given fight, so long as they have windfury (which really makes or breaks a warrior) and are DW Fury specced, and your tank(s) don't suck, so the DPS warrior doesn't have a low threat cap. This remains true from Karazhan all the way to Illidan. Arms isn't a DPS spec, it's a PvP/Support spec (as was mentioned earlier about Blood Frenzy, as well as Imp Thunderclap), so will have a hard time topping meters.
On rogue energy costs/regen:
I've been playing a rogue since open beta, done 70 levels and every fight in the game other than Sapphiron/Kel'Thuzad, and I can safely say that we would be disgustingly overpowered if we had some way of getting back more energy at a faster rate (even Combat Potency makes a huge difference), or cutting our energy costs at all (aside from openers, like the one talent in Subtelty that cuts Garrote/Cheap Shot to 40 energy). Imagine, if you will, a rogue having a talent similar to a druid's that reduced their backstab energy cost by, say, 10. Said rogue could Ambush and immediately Backstab after the GC without missing a beat, or needing an energy tick. If we're talking non-arenas, that rogue could pop a Thistle Tea and Backstab again on the next energy tick. In T5-T6/S2-S3 gear with an appropriate mainhand, only a Bear Form Druid or Warrior could hope to survive the fight past that, most anyone else will have just taken 7-8k damage, creating a VERY favorable situation for the rogue. And that's just the PvP side. PvE, it's already not hard to get top X (where X is number of rogues and DPS warriors in your raid) on damage meters with just a shaman for WF/SoE. Throw in a Feral Druid, and it gets even better. Now, cut our energy costs to go along with Combat Potency's restorative effect, and it'd just be utterly stupid how much damage we put out in raid encounters. Couple that with our ability to just shed threat from any value to 0 in the touch of a button, and I'd say we're fine where we are for now, at least from a PvE standpoint (not to say that I'm not jealous of what some other classes get to bring to the table).
No, it's similar to the Fighters/Warriors from other MMORPGs. Capable of damage output. most effective at surviving incoming damage, and keeping the enemy's eyes solely on them.
As for Holy Priests, they're really effective at raid healing in the 25-man instances, and getting the +25% armor to proc on the tank when healing him makes keeping said tank alive much easier.
Huh - my lvl 63 Warrior is 2h Arms, and I'm finding leveling up pretty slow. I guess I should respec to Fury.
I just got a ton of healing items for my enhancement shaman - a PUG Kara run netted me 3 healing purples and enough badges for a nether for the engineering healing goggles. I can easily heal normal dungeon runs, although I'd probably have to respec to resto if I wanted to grind heroics. Although my guildies love my improved windfury/SoE totems.
I just got a ton of healing items for my enhancement shaman - a PUG Kara run netted me 3 healing purples and enough badges for a nether for the engineering healing goggles. I can easily heal normal dungeon runs, although I'd probably have to respec to resto if I wanted to grind heroics. Although my guildies love my improved windfury/SoE totems.
Liferebooted
Banned
Woot, 2.3.2 downloaded and installed!
SuperAndroid17
Member
Rise and shine! fire mages!
Aw, hell... now I have to rethink my current mage spec. I was 40 Fire/21 Frost for ever just for ice block. Icy Veins is a pretty neat talent though, with troll berserking and some spell haste items I could be casting pretty quickly. The early arcane talents just don't excite me, and I've lived without Dragon's Breath until now, so I won't really miss it.
I might spec back into Permafrost just for kiting laughs again.
I might spec back into Permafrost just for kiting laughs again.
Alex
Member
Fire, I still never see any Hunters on raids either, coz they're almost all nimrods. I'm not taking a potshot at the people who play that class, that's just how it is when you're dealing with a populace like that.
If you can get a couple of amazing Hunters in your guild though it really adds a lot, but having to wade through the people with rotation macros and trying to laze it up on Marksman specs is difficult.
Playing pretty much in tandem with a few months with a really quality Hunter friend taught me a lot about the class. When we made our big Kael'thas push months ago we wound up kicking all three of our original Hunters off the roster just because they refused to match the effort of the two DPS nerd Hunters we recruited from good guilds.
It's not even about being harsh, it's just that nearly every Hunter we've had apply between the two serious raid guilds I've been in has been a total dummy or amazingly lazy.
But that's the norm for not just Hunters, I guess, but for most of the average raid guilds where half the people try and half the people don't even bring proper consumables or research their class in the least. At least in my experience. It's always made raiding a bit depressing, especially in the new shit where everyone counts.
I don't raid at all anymore, I cleared just about everything in the old world, and I killed Kael, so I felt that I've done enough and the time consumption is just too much in one block for me when it takes me two hours in a week to do my arena progress. It always surprised me that a lot of people were willing to put in 4-5 hours a night 4-5 times a week to raid though, and not willing to put in one total hour of reading class FAQs and research to ensure that they do a good job.
If you can get a couple of amazing Hunters in your guild though it really adds a lot, but having to wade through the people with rotation macros and trying to laze it up on Marksman specs is difficult.
Playing pretty much in tandem with a few months with a really quality Hunter friend taught me a lot about the class. When we made our big Kael'thas push months ago we wound up kicking all three of our original Hunters off the roster just because they refused to match the effort of the two DPS nerd Hunters we recruited from good guilds.
It's not even about being harsh, it's just that nearly every Hunter we've had apply between the two serious raid guilds I've been in has been a total dummy or amazingly lazy.
But that's the norm for not just Hunters, I guess, but for most of the average raid guilds where half the people try and half the people don't even bring proper consumables or research their class in the least. At least in my experience. It's always made raiding a bit depressing, especially in the new shit where everyone counts.
I don't raid at all anymore, I cleared just about everything in the old world, and I killed Kael, so I felt that I've done enough and the time consumption is just too much in one block for me when it takes me two hours in a week to do my arena progress. It always surprised me that a lot of people were willing to put in 4-5 hours a night 4-5 times a week to raid though, and not willing to put in one total hour of reading class FAQs and research to ensure that they do a good job.
The hunter stigma will always exist for a reason.
And today I officially kiss my rogue's PVP career goodbye. Going back to full combat for PVE purposes. I just hit 70 the other day on my warrior. Luckily I had my friends kill the Headless Horseman for me back in October so the moment I dinged I had the helm, the ring, my S1 gloves, and the 20 resilience trinket from an AV weekend.
Blacksmithing is so retardedly expensive to level. I need like 900 thorium bars. Ugh.
And today I officially kiss my rogue's PVP career goodbye. Going back to full combat for PVE purposes. I just hit 70 the other day on my warrior. Luckily I had my friends kill the Headless Horseman for me back in October so the moment I dinged I had the helm, the ring, my S1 gloves, and the 20 resilience trinket from an AV weekend.
Blacksmithing is so retardedly expensive to level. I need like 900 thorium bars. Ugh.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Icy said:
"BUH BUH BUH, NIHILIUM SEZ KAEL IZ EZ MOAD NOW" :lol
blood elf is the worst warlock race by far. Maybe they don't look as ugly as orcs/undead, but orcs/undead blow them out of the water otherwise.
as far as hunter complaints, lots of people say they don't manage their dps properly, can't trap for anything, can't manage their pet properly, etc. at higher levels you will run into hunters who can do a passable job with dps and at least know how to trap one mob, but don't have the whole shot rotation down so their dps is mediocre. I've definitely seen enough to know the difference between a below-average hunter, average hunter, good hunter and great hunter. It's mostly evident in instances.
as far as hunter complaints, lots of people say they don't manage their dps properly, can't trap for anything, can't manage their pet properly, etc. at higher levels you will run into hunters who can do a passable job with dps and at least know how to trap one mob, but don't have the whole shot rotation down so their dps is mediocre. I've definitely seen enough to know the difference between a below-average hunter, average hunter, good hunter and great hunter. It's mostly evident in instances.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Screw the haters, i love to play my hunter, i tried pretty much all classes to a certain degree but hunter is more my kind of gameplay.
patch note
awesome awesome, just a few days ago i was thinking how freaking slow pet leveling was, they're almost always a level under you till you're @ 98% in XP filled.
As for blood elves vs undead for warlock, i guess its because Will of the forsaken & cannibalize being so pvp centric, while mana tap @ high levels is basically pointless. But maybe there's something else.
Plus, undead just look a whole lot cooler than blood elves imo, especially warlocks. Bones showing, their crunched back, glowing eyes and freaking long nails in warlock tier 5 armor is just too cool.
So Darsh, you've decided if you come back to wow yet? Think Jae & Mika will join too?
patch note
awesome awesome, just a few days ago i was thinking how freaking slow pet leveling was, they're almost always a level under you till you're @ 98% in XP filled.
As for blood elves vs undead for warlock, i guess its because Will of the forsaken & cannibalize being so pvp centric, while mana tap @ high levels is basically pointless. But maybe there's something else.
Plus, undead just look a whole lot cooler than blood elves imo, especially warlocks. Bones showing, their crunched back, glowing eyes and freaking long nails in warlock tier 5 armor is just too cool.
So Darsh, you've decided if you come back to wow yet? Think Jae & Mika will join too?
Buggy Loop said:
Jae has expressed interest, but only on a PvE server and ally. No clue on Mika.
I'm definitely thinking about it, but I KNOW if I go back, I'll neglect all of the games backlog I have and am trying to go through. =P So, I'd have to be careful.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
PVE and ally? She's such a carebear
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