Support NeoGAF

[Alex]

Man, what the hell is up with this, my video card shows not one little drop of performance difference between 16x AF and 16XQ AA in WoW. I can certainly notice the gigantic jagged edges and horrendous textures without AF, so I know it aint goin to waste.

The onllyyy thing that alters my FPS is when I turn transparency supersampling on, which just cut my 100 FPS at the portion of terokar im looking at down to 30.

 

[Oni Link 666]

I checked around with a few guilds today to see if I can join and help out with raids and runs, but the most common response was in regards to my gear and spec.

I love being a sub rogue for the survivalbility with 10 points in combat to up my DPS a little bit. Whenever I'm grouped, I'm usually on of the top2 in DPS output. I haven't seriously considered raiding until now, which explains why most of my gear is S1 and PVP stuff.

Can one of you WoW pros check out my armory page and let me know if I've got something stupid going on?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Khaz+Modan&n=Boomuppercut

I have to add here that you got the freaking druid PVP bracers and boots! The Rogues stuff is the Vindicator's leather. You don't need Intellect and agility is much better for you than strength. Especially since you're a subtlety rogue with sinister calling. That 15% increase on your agility aint no joke.

I don't know if you're wearing that riding crop around all the time but, if you are, go to Honor Hold and do that daily to get the 3 towers until you get 30 marks. Then get the trinket in Zangarmarsh with them. It's called Mark of Conquest.

If you're serious about PVP, you need to get rid of that crossbow and get a thrown weapon. You can probably get a decent one in Halaa or the Nesingwary quests in Nagrand if you haven't done them. Deadly throw is nice for PVE too. Bows are just ass for rogues most of the time. They better have some damn good stats if you're using them over thrown weapons.

You're gem work is pretty bad. You need to get rid of the defense gem. Also, you should probably stop trying to stack critical rating too. Hit rating and agility are much better.

If you're going subtlety with hemorrhage, you want to get a weapon with high weapon damage like a sword, mace, or fist weapon. If you really like daggers, you should probably just do assassination.

Your spec is pretty crappy for both PVE and PVP. If you're going to do subtlety, take those points out of combat and put them into assassination talents like Malice and Lethality.

Take a look at my rogues. I don't wear a mounting crop all the time if you see it on me btw. :lol
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Trollbane&n=Kunoichi

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Trollbane&n=Kunoichilink

I don't meant to sound too mean here. Just trying to help out a fellow rogue.

 

[Alex]

You don't need Intellect

You can't hit anything if you're an idiot. I had someone tell me this once, a Warrior in a bunch of "Of the Gorilla" gear, was a long time ago though.

 

[DarkAngelYuna]

Woo, season 4 announced for June 24th.

 

[Alex]

Woo, season 4 announced for June 24th.

Sayonara, fancy title!

 

[JoeMartin]

You can't hit anything if you're an idiot. I had someone tell me this once, a Warrior in a bunch of "Of the Gorilla" gear, was a long time ago though.

Hey man, intellect helps level your weapon skills faster.

 

[DarkAngelYuna]

Hey man, intellect helps level your weapon skills faster.

Now only if that wasn't removed almost a year+ ago ;(

 

[border]

Someone in my guild wants me to respec swords, but i have the emerald ripper and the night blade

I said that when I find some swords, I'll use them

I dunno how rich your guild is, but if they want you to respec to swords, see if they will provide the mats or the gold for you to level up Blacksmithing. You can get 2 Tier-5 quality swords just from crafting as a Master Swordsmith.

 

[BigJonsson]

I dunno how rich your guild is, but if they want you to respec to swords, see if they will provide the mats or the gold for you to level up Blacksmithing. You can get 2 Tier-5 quality swords just from crafting as a Master Swordsmith.

Well I am a maxed out miner and my engineering is shit

And its just one guy who told me i should do it, he is known as like the master WoW player in the guild

The GM put in the motd that no one is supposed to tell someone how to play their character and hasn't said anything negative about me in raids

Since the above post says S4 is starting this month, I could just start BG-ing again and wait for S2 swords

 

[Hero]

I have to add here that you got the freaking druid PVP bracers and boots! The Rogues stuff is the Vindicator's leather. You don't need Intellect and agility is much better for you than strength. Especially since you're a subtlety rogue with sinister calling. That 15% increase on your agility aint no joke.

I don't know if you're wearing that riding crop around all the time but, if you are, go to Honor Hold and do that daily to get the 3 towers until you get 30 marks. Then get the trinket in Zangarmarsh with them. It's called Mark of Conquest.

If you're serious about PVP, you need to get rid of that crossbow and get a thrown weapon. You can probably get a decent one in Halaa or the Nesingwary quests in Nagrand if you haven't done them. Deadly throw is nice for PVE too. Bows are just ass for rogues most of the time. They better have some damn good stats if you're using them over thrown weapons.

You're gem work is pretty bad. You need to get rid of the defense gem. Also, you should probably stop trying to stack critical rating too. Hit rating and agility are much better.

If you're going subtlety with hemorrhage, you want to get a weapon with high weapon damage like a sword, mace, or fist weapon. If you really like daggers, you should probably just do assassination.

Your spec is pretty crappy for both PVE and PVP. If you're going to do subtlety, take those points out of combat and put them into assassination talents like Malice and Lethality.

Take a look at my rogues. I don't wear a mounting crop all the time if you see it on me btw. :lol
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Trollbane&n=Kunoichi

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Trollbane&n=Kunoichilink

I don't meant to sound too mean here. Just trying to help out a fellow rogue.

Actually, stat point allocation wise, Vindicator's Dragonhide Bracers are superior to Vindicator's Leather Bracer.s

But to the original poster, if you want to do PVE, you go Combat Swords. If you want to PVE, go Shadowstep Hemo.

Starting out raiding, here's a pretty good guide of what gear you can get easily (quest, BOE drops, 5 man dungeons)

http://shadowpanther.net/starter-pve.htm

Afterwards you can go to the regular PVE table.

In general though the biggest boost to a rogue's DPS will be hit rating until you hit the cap. Hit Rating > Agility > AP/Crit Rating >>>>> anything else.

 

[Oni Link 666]

Actually, stat point allocation wise, Vindicator's Dragonhide Bracers are superior to Vindicator's Leather Bracer.s

How so? Do you get 2 extra AP over 2 armor and .00001 dodge or something?

 

[Hero]

How so? Do you get 2 extra AP over 2 armor and .00001 dodge or something?

More armor, crit, and resilience. I mean it's only a few points higher, but still higher regardless.

 

[Richiban]

Thanks for all the help guys.

I respecced combat swords and regemmed a bunch of my gear.

Should I just keep the dagger until I get a decent main hand, or should I just buy a high level green and hope I can get one on an instance run.

I'm kind of looking at Latro's Dancing Sword from reg MrT to tide me over till I can get a better one.

 

[Hero]

Thanks for all the help guys.

I respecced combat swords and regemmed a bunch of my gear.

Should I just keep the dagger until I get a decent main hand, or should I just buy a high level green and hope I can get one on an instance run.

I'm kind of looking at Latro's Dancing Sword from reg MrT to tide me over till I can get a better one.

Grind out some honor for the S1 sword. It's not that much.

 

[Alex]

I hate Rogue raiding in TBC. Real Rogues were combat daggers, and could top DPS even on C'thun's spastic, eyeball ass.

Swords were for knuckleheads who couldn't stick and move, like me! Which is why I don't like Rogue! But I had good Rogue friends, and man, combat daggers could do amazing shit with the proper skill. Im planning to be pissed off if Blizz doesn't ressurect daggers in LK.

 

[firex]

I quit the rogue alt I was making when I heard mutilate sucks for dps compared to combat swords.

... plus I don't really like the combo points system. I mean it's a cool system but since I'm all anal over it I try to get as many CPs on a mob as possible and then use a finisher even when it's overkill.

 

[Hero]

Yeah, Pre-TBC Combat Daggers was the spec for dps, nothing else even came close.

It's so sad that it's the worst spec for DPS now. Actually, daggers for the most part suck ass. Change class icon to Swords and Maces, Blizz.

Also, combo points need to retain themselves on the rogue in WotLK. Changing targets sucks ass.

 

[Manick Joe]

Here here, a universal combo system would be serene.

I succumbed to the "darkside" of combat swords too about a month or two ago. Incredibly boring just spamming Sinister Strike and Slice & Dice, but now I do 900+dps topping damage meters instead of 650-700 when I was Shadowstep and being in the top 4. I just respec back and forth every week now (only takes a day of dailys to cover that cost plus consumables) so I can have fun questing and pvp'ing.

 

[Kletian]

I wouldnt count out Combat Daggers though

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Gilneas&n=Navarius

My irl friend's Rogue and guildmate. He can pull out between 700-900 DPS and constantly tops the charts.

 

[Alex]

Combat daggers is a waste compared to swords, it's pointless now whereas it was entirely balanced pre-BC for skill VS effort. I'm sure you can make it work, but it's like Marksmanship for Hunter, there's just no real benefit and you're cutting your own DPS.

Also, 700-900 DPS sounds pretty low for someone in all epics with weapons like that. I think you misunderstood him or he's crunching numbers pretty oddly.

 

[Hero]

Backstab is horrible.

As Combat Daggers you'll only have 100 energy. Backstab is 60 energy. That means you only get to Backstab every six seconds as opposed to every four seconds (not taking into account Combat Potency).

Also, white damage, which is 60% of a rogue's damage, is lower as daggers than swords, and dagger specialization < sword specialization.

 

[Cipherr]

Happens all the time though. Daggers used to be the #1 dps spec for rogues and now its combat swords, Marksmen used to be what I used to top the dps charts in old school MC raid on my hunters, now its the BM hunters pumping out major DPS. Had you told me back then that it would flip like that, theres no WAY I would have guessed it. I gritted my teeth hardcore when I had to spec BM/MM from MM/Surv man. The loss of those 6 yards in range literally made me furious. It took me forever to get used to not being able to attack from 41 yards. It still gets me to this day.

 

[Alex]

The problem is daggers almost universally suck now, Marksman still has it's spot in PvP and other events and you're still a Ranger class using ranged weapons. To have a Rogue class with such shitty options to use daggers is fucking stupid.

It's even more annoying if you raided pre-BC and had a taste of just how balanced the Swords VS Daggers matchups were in rewarding skill and providing options. Way to break what was perfect.

 

[Hero]

Happens all the time though. Daggers used to be the #1 dps spec for rogues and now its combat swords, Marksmen used to be what I used to top the dps charts in old school MC raid on my hunters, now its the BM hunters pumping out major DPS. Had you told me back then that it would flip like that, theres no WAY I would have guessed it. I gritted my teeth hardcore when I had to spec BM/MM from MM/Surv man. The loss of those 6 yards in range literally made me furious. It took me forever to get used to not being able to attack from 41 yards. It still gets me to this day.

Yeah, because being one of the top DPS classes standing at only 35 yards is so vastly different. I'd like to see you play a melee.

 

[Alex]

BC Hunter was about a metric ton more difficult to play than BC Rogue when I left, so I wouldn't go there, being a melee isn't some wild handicap, I've always disagreed with that (sans the cleave shit in early BC, oh and when we secretly swapped off our Enhancement Shammy's Salv on trash prior to their threat buff, man those were the days)

But I heard they patched in so the dumbshit macro no longer clips your shots, and manual shot weaving isn't needed anymore for top end DPS. If that's true then holy fuck, they just ruined all the good they did for upper end Hunters in the expansion.

Manual shot weaving and BM's pet management totally redefined Hunter in BC, high effort with high reward instead of the broken, useless model they had in vanilla WoW.

They've been softening up the latter, but if they destroyed shot weaving then fuck Blizzard, seriously. That's just a fucking I WIN button now for PvE.

If it's true, that is. That'd be as fucking detrimental as the swords for Rogue bullshit. In terms of mechanics, at least it'd dodge aesthetics.

 

[Hero]

BC Hunter was about a metric ton more difficult to play than BC Rogue when I left, so I wouldn't go there, being a melee isn't some wild handicap, I've always disagreed with that (sans the cleave shit in early BC, oh and when we secretly swapped off our Enhancement Shammy's Salv on trash prior to their threat buff, man those were the days)

But I heard they patched in so the dumbshit macro no longer clips your shots, and manual shot weaving isn't needed anymore for top end DPS. If that's true then holy fuck, they just ruined all the good they did for upper end Hunters in the expansion.

Manual shot weaving and BM's pet management totally redefined Hunter in BC, high effort with high reward instead of the broken, useless model they had in vanilla WoW.

They've been softening up the latter, but if they destroyed shot weaving then fuck Blizzard, seriously. That's just a fucking I WIN button now for PvE.

If it's true, that is. That'd be as fucking detrimental as the swords for Rogue bullshit. In terms of mechanics, at least it'd dodge aesthetics.

Yeah, you're right. Instead of spamming two buttons to DPS and moving in and out of AOE or phases, spamming one macro button that does all your DPS for you at max ranged is sooo much harder.

 

[Alex]

Did you read a single thing that was in my post?! Not a single decent Hunter, who put out anywhere near their maximum capable damage, used a macro prior to the patch that removed shot clipping.

Despite my abhorrence for Rangers, I actually respected Hunters in PvE until the macro douchebags got their way, now the class can be towed away for all I care. Playing a proper, manual shot weaving BM Hunter was probably the most difficult DPS class to play in raiding. Now it's the fucking easiest.

They're really dumbing the fuck out of the raid elements. A solid totem twisting (unless that got removed too) Enhance. Shaman and Shadow Priest are probably the most intensive raid DPS classes now.

Although I'll still be happy with LK S. Priest if it gets most of that downpour of very deserved, very smart buffs that it has at the moment. Not sure how I feel about lessening the support role and raising the damage role, though.

 

[shoplifter]

OK - its not in the OP and I didn't see anything on the last couple pages. Is there still a GAF guild(s)? If so, what server and faction? A couple of friends and I are planning on coming back to the game.

 

[Cipherr]

^^^

Your damn right about the shot weaving. I only about 6 months ago picked up my hunter and leveled him from 60 to 70 and started playing again. And yes, the oldschool "10 sec shot rotation" that we used to have to manually weave and use for PvE dps is dead and gone. Its all been relegated to a single macro now that avoids shot clipping (I almost lost my lunch when I found that out). Now you literally have a single button. But whats worse? Most hunters don't even do that. I can understand the disconnect between a hardcore gamer and a casual. But they LITERALLY dumbed down hunter dps into a single button, and its STILL hard as hell to find a hunter who knows about it/uses it. Ive run alot of heroics with some random second hunter whos dps is garbage because he doesn't manually weave his shots nor use a macro.

The players of the hunter class are pretty much dead in the water. If you cant handle a single button doing everything for you, then god help you.

On the other hand I play a 70 rogue as well, and I wont act like maintaining a 2s5r rotation for PvE dps is all that difficult either. But at least its more than one button. And it definitely seems a larger portion of the people playing rogues are min/maxers and know about their classes mechanics than the hunters do.

 

[JoeMartin]

Screenshots of Ferelas because it's a gorgeous zone and one of my personal favorites (quality poo'd down a bit so it doesn't take a year to load).

EDIT: Added one more I'm done I swear.

 

[firex]

I wish all the pretty zones in pre-TBC WoW didn't have some of the least fun quests ever (winterspring, feralas come to mind right away for me). It's like Furor was still in the EQ "gotta punish people for playing our game" mindset and made sure they put the worst quests in the prettiest zones, and the better quests in the uglier zones.

Oh well, I guess there's always Un'Goro.

 

[BigJonsson]

Picked up some epic gloves (Not the T4 token ones) and an epic mace in Kara tonight

Would it be worthwhile to re-spec maces for pve, or is that only a pvp build? (keep in mind I am daggers right now)

And I now have 35 badges, should I save them or use them on one of the things available now?

 

[speedpop]

Winterspring was always one of my favourites. I still distinctly remember the first time I water-walked with my Shaman across Azshara, so awesome.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Sup thread.

Anyone know a program to repeat button presses when triggered? I'm currently using a macro to have my pet waltz around and eat windfury/poison cleansing and hitting it all the time gets obnoxious.

Oh and Feralas is actually awesome, hordeside at least.

And there probably won't be any more badge rewards before WOTLK, so go crazy. Course 35 won't get jack really, but hey.

I kinda gave up raiding. BT and Hyjal ad infitum is sooooooooo boring. Guild got it up their asses to down Archi before progressing heavily in BT and that just axed interest for me. Just now working on ROS when that should have been downed months ago is frustrating.

Arenas are goddamn fun at least. 2v2 is just really great. I'm actually extremely respectful of how balanced teams near 2k. Everything's all about execution, with a heap of RNG. I don't know, I find that the comp-counter comp bullshit just kind of fades away. Course, I'm playing as a SV hunter/priest and I don't exactly know what the counter to that would be. I haven't felt cheated by a match due to comps in ages.

 

[Chris R]

I just used 35 badges tonight to buy the caster offhand, will go nicely with the caster weapon from pvp I'll get on the 24th. Ran H UB tonight with a decent warrior, great resto druid, shitty rogue and ret pally. Rogue did just like 35k more than the tank. Claimed it was because he was in his full PvP gear and mace specced... whatever. Pally was almost able to keep up with me, we not really :lol

 

[Kletian]

Picked up some epic gloves (Not the T4 token ones) and an epic mace in Kara tonight

Would it be worthwhile to re-spec maces for pve, or is that only a pvp build? (keep in mind I am daggers right now)

And I now have 35 badges, should I save them or use them on one of the things available now?

Depending on how well you guys do in Kara every week, Save them. If your guild can clear the place every week and walk out with 22 badges, save them and get the Pants from SSO or the Chest for 100 Badges, best pieces of gear for those slots in the game pre Sunwell Plateau.

If you guys are struggling, start getting a few of the smaller things to help your group Progress. Master Assassins Wristwraps (35?), the Cloak, Nin'Ja's Tabi Boots (65) in Shattrah or the Belt from SSO (75)

 

[timmy]

Happens all the time though. Daggers used to be the #1 dps spec for rogues and now its combat swords, Marksmen used to be what I used to top the dps charts in old school MC raid on my hunters, now its the BM hunters pumping out major DPS. Had you told me back then that it would flip like that, theres no WAY I would have guessed it. I gritted my teeth hardcore when I had to spec BM/MM from MM/Surv man. The loss of those 6 yards in range literally made me furious. It took me forever to get used to not being able to attack from 41 yards. It still gets me to this day.

In old WoW, Lolsmite was the top DPS spec for priests, and now it's shadow. This isn't of any real relevance to the conversation. I just like mentioning smite specs.

 

[Kletian]

Hey maybe in this Xpac they'll bring Hemo Fists up to be the end all be all of Rogue DPS.

I've been a Fist Rogue since ZG and would love the attention

 

[Fulleffect]

Anyone know a program to repeat button presses when triggered? I'm currently using a macro to have my pet waltz around and eat windfury/poison cleansing and hitting it all the time gets obnoxious.

just be glad i guess that you only have to push 1 button to negate a classes only unique ability

 

[Richiban]

I really really miss hemo and shadowstep, but I have to admit that since respeccing, I've been a dps factory. I still don't know if I'm up to par, but I have noticed a marketed difference in my damage output.

I'm still using a dagger for the grind of the the PVP blade though =(

 

[BigJonsson]

I really want to use the Mace i picked up from Illhoof but I don't know, maces seem pvp only

It just seemed strange when I equipped it and my crit rating went from 26% to 10% but my damage went from 358 to 527ish lol


But with any luck I'll be able to pick up the Spiteblade from Netherspite and pick up an S2 sword on the 24th

 

[Son of Godzilla]

just be glad i guess that you only have to push 1 button to negate a classes only unique ability

Hey now, spamming a mouse button is considerably more work than running around a pillar.

We've actually had a shaman just flat out leave the arena like 5 seconds after engaging, pet killed his totems and three shields got dispelled. I'd have sympathy but Windfury is really fuggin lame.

 

[Tamanon]

So, anybody play a Boomkin?

My druid is almost 61 and Feral, and I'm thinking of switching. Would I be able to heal leveling instances if need be as a balance/resto, maybe a 34/27 or so?

 

[border]

Thinking of starting a Draenai character on a friend's server, because the tard refuses to play anything besides humans. WTF lol?

Anyhow, I am thinking about a Shaman or a Hunter because they both get fast-travel early-on and I really can't stomach the 1-40 walkfest. I doubt I will be using the character for any endgame content, but just want to have a fun leveling experience and maybe do some battlegrounds. I also dislike downtime. It seems like hunter might be the best choice, but I'm really not sure about how Shaman plays at all. Suggestions?

 

[firex]

hunter is what I'd suggest since you just want something that is fast and you might do BGs and that's about it. not only are they easy to gear up from BGs, you actually get good shit getting your welfare epics.

although it's the same for elemental/enhance shamans. their gladiator sets are actually pretty well itemized for them.

 

[Alex]

I'm kind of struggling between if I wanna peck away at my Alliance Shaman/Mage which I decided on to keep or make a Hunter alt on Cairne for my Blood Elf Priest. I always feel guilty just considering rolling a Hunter though, when you hit up WCRealms and they've got like a 27% populace :lol.

 

[Alex]

Oh, this:

Current Alpha Revision

Build
8471
June 12, 2008

Maybe another slew of F&F Alpha changes soon.

 

[firex]

I'm hoping for more DK info and some shaman/paladin info.

 

[Hero]

51755 Camouflage You Camouflage, causing you to blend in with your surroundings. Instantly removes all physical and spell debuffs, and you fade into an improved invisibility state. Camouflage will break after the you deal damage. Lasts $d.

51712 Slaughter from the Shadows Rank 5 Reduces the energy cost of your Backstab and Ambush abilities by $s1.
51713 Shadow Dance Instantly enter stealth and begin the Shadow Dance. For $d you will reenter stealth every $t2 secs.
51724 Sap Rank 4 Incapacitates the target for up to $d. Must be stealthed. Only works on Humanoids, Beasts, Demons and Dragonkin that are not in combat. Any damage caused will revive the target. Only 1 target may be sapped at a time.
51701 Honor Among Thieves Rank 3 When anyone in your group critically hits with a damage or healing spell or ability you have a $h% chance to gain a combo point on your current target.
51696 Waylay Rank 2 Your Ambush critical hits have a $h% chance to reduce the target's melee and ranged attack speed by $51693s1%, movement speed by $51693s2% and prevent item use for $51693d.
51690 Murder Spree Step through the shadows from enemy to enemy within 10 yards, attacking an enemy every .5 secs with both weapons until 5 assaults are made. Can hit the same target multiple times.
51679 Throwing Specialization Rank 2 Increases the range of Throw and Deadly Throw by $s1 yards and gives your Deadly Throw a $h% chance to interrupt the target for $51680d.
51631 Devious Poisons Rank 2 Increases the damage caused by your Instant Poison and Deadly Poison by $s2%. In addition, when a target you've poisoned is healed or cured, there is a $h% chance the poison afflicts the healer.
51625 Deadly Brew Rank 1 "When you apply Instant, Wounding or Mind-Numbing poison to a target, you have a $h% chance to apply a second poison:
Instant -> Deadly
Wounding -> Crippling
Mind-Numbing -> Crippling"
51669 Cut to the Chase Rank 5 Your Eviscerate and Envenom critical strikes have a $h% chance to refresh your Slice and Dice duration to its 5 combo point maximum.
51634 Focused Attacks Rank 1 Your melee critical strikes have a $h% chance to give you $s1 energy.
51633 Blood Spatter Rank 2 Increases the damage caused by your Garrote and Rupture abilities by $s1%.

Lots of info via deathknight.info

 

[border]

Just what rogues need -- ANOTHER Cloak of Shadows =\