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[BigJonsson]

What do you guys think of the Nesingwary 4000 on a Rogue?

The stats are pretty nice and it has a yellow socket

 

[Alex]

We're talking normal instances here, an under leveled Hunter pet could tank normal mode LK dungeons.

As far as heroics go, I'm going to take the same stance as I did during BC: I'll take whatever as long as it's a good player and a nice person. I'm not as much as an efficiency freak, and I like seeing people do well on the offspecs, even if the lack of cc made it harder.

I've got a bit to go before I start running heroics and raids again though, old abandoned character, fresh 80. I'm going to go for 1400 spell power before I start healing some of the easier ones. My regen stats are already pretty fine.

 

[Eteric Rice]

So, since when could Warriors dual weild two-handed weapons?

I mean, isn't that kind of OP? Especially in PVP?

 

[Eric WK]

So, since when could Warriors dual weild two-handed weapons?

I mean, isn't that kind of OP? Especially in PVP?

No, not really. It means they're not Arms.

 

[Lord Phol]

Edit:

However I will reiterate my own opinion that the following classes with these specs are failure for 5 man heroics.

Shaman-Elemental
Shaman-Enhancement
Paladin-Retribution
Druid-Balance
Priest-Shadow
Warrior-Arms
Warrior-Fury

Nobody wants you guys in 5 mans. If you want badges and gear then do us all a favor and respec to a spec that works well until you get your shit. I don't see how it could be worse than being stuck in LFG channel all day because nobody wants your shitty spec.

My my, good thing you aren't deving the game then, or we would all be playing "Generic superhero" carbon copy xxx.
Who likes diversity anyways?

 

[Son of Godzilla]

15500/21000 Sons.

The Mammoth is calling me....

 

[Kintaro]

I get an extremely hearty chuckle at DK's I see sitting in LFG for long streches of time with the comment "DPS only". Of course since my pal is a competent DK, we never need an outside tank but it's migraine inducing even moreso than Warrior considering how tanking is done on DK.

Fucking morons.

If this is the "casual" view of things, I think it's time for me to hang up the game again. I honestly have no desire to tank on my DK.

1) There's finally a class that's basically two hander only (love them) with neato magic type attacks and it's pretty clear that some people would like to enjoy DPSing with it instead of tanking.

2) I'm still a newbie when it comes to this stuff. As a tank, I'm being asked to lead. Shit that goes wrong is on my head. WTF am I going to lead in dungeons I've never been in and no prior experience? If something happens, it's all on my head and I'm called a "fucking moron" either way. That's not really all that fun.

3) Perhaps tanking is just plain not fun in this game? DPS trees have so many more fun things to play with it seems.

 

[TomServo]

Wait, what, 60 Dust and 20 Cosmic Essences from 20 greens? Holy shit, I'd say you got lucky. Some of my greens amount to 2 or 3 dust, tops.

I DE'd about 12 greens last night after running Zul'Drak from 78 to 79 and got about 2.5 stacks of dust and a some essences. Dust was coming in 4 or 5 per green.

I know a lot of enchanters are complaining about the shards-as-currency thing, but I like enchanting much better in WotLK than BC. Seemed like only the most basic enchants were sold outright in BC, everything else required rep grinds or drops. There's also a lot more stuff useful to casters at the lower levels (375-410) - maybe that's due to these being the first enchants created after stats were consolidated.

However I will reiterate my own opinion that the following classes with these specs are failure for 5 man heroics.

Shaman-Elemental
Shaman-Enhancement
Paladin-Retribution
Druid-Balance
Priest-Shadow
Warrior-Arms
Warrior-Fury

Nobody wants you guys in 5 mans. If you want badges and gear then do us all a favor and respec to a spec that works well until you get your shit. I don't see how it could be worse than being stuck in LFG channel all day because nobody wants your shitty spec.

I've been away for a long time, so I'm not sure what's changed but as a former healer (resto shaman) I'd agree with most of that list. Mostly because the players of those specs tend to have zero idea how to manage threat. I had a good number of DPS-spec guildies threaten to /gquit because I refused to heal them when they went balls-out on DPS and repeatedly pulled aggro. They usually got laughed at by everyone else in Vent and stopped pulling aggro or kept doing it and died a lot.

If this is the "casual" view of things, I think it's time for me to hang up the game again. I honestly have no desire to tank on my DK.

Personally, it's just a bit irritating that there are four classes that can heal and four classes that can tank, yet they're going after the dps slots when there are four classes that can do nothing but dps.

If they're normalizing class dps with the appropriate spec, I want a spec for each of the "pure" dps classes that allows them to tank or heal.

 

[Macattk15]

For normal level 80 instances most DKs should be able to tank as long as they're Frost or Unholy.

But for level 80 heroics it's a whole different story. It is extremely difficult to hit the 540 defense cap for a Death Knight since there are no two-handed weapons with tank stats on them, they cannot equip shields, no gun/bow/crossbow/thrown and there are like three or four sigils in the game and none of them have tanking stats or abilities onto them.

Even with the defense cap Death Knight tanking is very bursty and most healers cannot accurately gauge when to use big heals or cooldowns to keep them up. When a Death Knight uses abilities like Icebound Fortitutde or Lichborne or Bone Shield it'll be nice and smooth for 10-20 seconds and all of a sudden they take three hits for 75% of their health bar. Expect this to change however since Ghostcrawler has stated they're looking into tweaking Death Knight tanking.

Edit:

However I will reiterate my own opinion that the following classes with these specs are failure for 5 man heroics.

Shaman-Elemental
Shaman-Enhancement
Paladin-Retribution
Druid-Balance
Priest-Shadow
Warrior-Arms
Warrior-Fury

Nobody wants you guys in 5 mans. If you want badges and gear then do us all a favor and respec to a spec that works well until you get your shit. I don't see how it could be worse than being stuck in LFG channel all day because nobody wants your shitty spec.

Lol .... I'm a fury warrior and I've already gotten my T7 chest & gloves via badges, neck piece and Mirror of Truth trinket ... that is 205 badges and I still have 26 more. Sure I have gotten some of the badges from Heroics and Naxx .... but come on.

Maybe all the fury warriors in your groups just blow? Maybe your server should learn to stop sucking? Prot tanks give me Vigilance, I do more DPS than anyone in the group by a damn good margin ... don't really know why groups wouldn't want a high DPS class. What the hell do rogues offer over Fury? Oh boy ... a shitty sap in these ridiculously easy heroics .... and stuns.

Hell ... half the groups I run in with guildies is .... prot war, unholy dps dk, fury war, holy priest and a marks hunter. We don't CC a damn thing and we have never ran into a problem in any heroics.

Maybe I don't want you in my group either.

 

[Kintaro]

Personally, it's just a bit irritating that there are four classes that can heal and four classes that can tank, yet they're going after the dps slots when there are four classes that can do nothing but dps.

If they're normalizing class dps with the appropriate spec, I want a spec for each of the "pure" dps classes that allows them to tank or heal.

Perhaps that's because 90% of the game is leveling up/PVP now? What's the easiest way to level up? DPS. What's a major pain in the ass? Respeccing for one certain thing, then respeccing back to go do the other 90% of the game. Dual-speccing would help with this, but blizz is dragging ass.

That's why "hybrids" are never really "hybrids". So, why bother with them at all?

 

[Angry Grimace]

If this is the "casual" view of things, I think it's time for me to hang up the game again. I honestly have no desire to tank on my DK.

1) There's finally a class that's basically two hander only (love them) with neato magic type attacks and it's pretty clear that some people would like to enjoy DPSing with it instead of tanking.

2) I'm still a newbie when it comes to this stuff. As a tank, I'm being asked to lead. Shit that goes wrong is on my head. WTF am I going to lead in dungeons I've never been in and no prior experience? If something happens, it's all on my head and I'm called a "fucking moron" either way. That's not really all that fun.

3) Perhaps tanking is just plain not fun in this game? DPS trees have so many more fun things to play with it seems.

I would happily invite anyone that did their job in any spec to a Heroic. The type of person that refuses is the type of person I wouldn't want to group with anyways. But then again, I've been running a lot less PUGs.

 

[Farnack]

Perhaps that's because 90% of the game is leveling up/PVP now? What's the easiest way to level up? DPS. What's a major pain in the ass? Respeccing for one certain thing, then respeccing back to go do the other 90% of the game. Dual-speccing would help with this, but blizz is dragging ass.

That's why "hybrids" are never really "hybrids". So, why bother with them at all?

I leveled as holy. 8D

I killed things just a tad slower than ret pallies but always had infinite mana. 8D

 

[Angry Grimace]

If this is the "casual" view of things, I think it's time for me to hang up the game again. I honestly have no desire to tank on my DK.

1) There's finally a class that's basically two hander only (love them) with neato magic type attacks and it's pretty clear that some people would like to enjoy DPSing with it instead of tanking.

2) I'm still a newbie when it comes to this stuff. As a tank, I'm being asked to lead. Shit that goes wrong is on my head. WTF am I going to lead in dungeons I've never been in and no prior experience? If something happens, it's all on my head and I'm called a "fucking moron" either way. That's not really all that fun.

3) Perhaps tanking is just plain not fun in this game? DPS trees have so many more fun things to play with it seems.

The best advice is to get a good guild that's not filled with assholes. I take lead (prot warrior) on instances I haven't done (almost always that same 5 people) and nobody ever gives me shit if we wipe. We just try again and I fix whatever I did wrong/use the net to figure out if i'm missing something critical.

However, you should at least have a grasp on basic DK tanking, because I DO expect DK's to try and attempt off-tanking after I'm taking a dirt nap.

 

[Angry Grimace]

If they're normalizing class dps with the appropriate spec, I want a spec for each of the "pure" dps classes that allows them to tank or heal.

Why?

Nobody will take any of those classes anywhere in a PUG group anyways.

 

[Flesh Into Gear]

if someone pays my 15$ for me they can make me spec whatever I want. Until then I'm going to dps on my pally and do it better than 90% of the other people out there, regardless if they're a pure dps class or not.

You have no obligation to tank or heal just because your class can. I've spent some time as holy and a lot on protection, back when prot pallys were scoffed at. I have much more fun as ret and I've spent a lot of time with the class back when it was garbage so I've grown pretty fond of it.

If you're good dps you shouldn't have a hard time finding a group anyway. After a week of doing heroics my friends list is full of tanks and healers and we run stuff all the time because they know I get shit done.

However, you should at least have a grasp on basic DK tanking, because I DO expect DK's to try and attempt off-tanking after I'm taking a dirt nap.

I certainly agree with this. Exploring your other specs even if you dont plan to stick with it will make you a better player overall. I can't count the amount of groups I've saved spot off tanking adds that jumped on the healer or busting out my trusty healing mace when the main heals goes down or needs backing up.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

if someone pays my 15$ for me they can make me spec whatever I want. Until then I'm going to dps on my pally and do it better than 90% of the other people out there, regardless if they're a pure dps class or not.

I'm so used to referrer to money in WoW as gold that this made me double read the sentence. :lol I was thinking "you don't have to pay to respec(as you do in realm transfers and name changes)".

 

[Macattk15]

So my guild did 10 man naxx last night for the first time ... most of the people in the guild had no experience in there besides me and my g/f who had it cleared to Sapphiron pre-TBC.

what a fucking joke that place is now as a 10 man. went to anub'rehkan with pulling only 1 trash mob .... wiped once because the tank didn't know how to properly kite the locust swarm ... despite me explaining it very well. One shot both Faerlina and Maex.

Was still fun though, didn't start raiding till 10pm ... wiped out Sartharion and Archavon in a total of an hour and then cleared the Spider Wing in another hour. Tonight I think we go back for the construct wing.

Just makes me sad that they turned the sunwell of vanilla wow into less than Karazan.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I don't know much about priests but this is my girlfriend who does quite well and is honestly one of the best priests that I have ever run with (not just because she is my g/f).

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Trollbane&n=Trinn

The spec seems to work well for her .. of course she is not in greens ... but I dunno, maybe the spec will work for you as well?

I have a few priests healing naxx in my guild with that spec and they seem to be doing well. I believe I'll be using it in the near future.

Yeah, love it as well. The other disc spells might be lacking, but this definitely makes up for it. Most mana efficient healing spell as a priest, first tick is instant and then 2 more over 2 seconds, builds up to max in only one cast and more chances to crit means more procs. For some reason I skipped rapture in my spec (didn't know how good it was) but supposedly if even one of the 3 ticks crits, you actually get mana back instead of using it if you've specced fully into that.

Oh, and it's a nice damage spell for when soloing as well

And if anyone is wondering. I went for a disc/penance spec. I think it's better for my quest greens cause I need mana efficiency.

 

[Flesh Into Gear]

So my guild did 10 man naxx last night for the first time ... most of the people in the guild had no experience in there besides me and my g/f who had it cleared to Sapphiron pre-TBC.

what a fucking joke that place is now as a 10 man. went to anub'rehkan with pulling only 1 trash mob .... wiped once because the tank didn't know how to properly kite the locust swarm ... despite me explaining it very well. One shot both Faerlina and Maex.

Was still fun though, didn't start raiding till 10pm ... wiped out Sartharion and Archavon in a total of an hour and then cleared the Spider Wing in another hour. Tonight I think we go back for the construct wing.

Just makes me sad that they turned the sunwell of vanilla wow into less than Karazan.

I ran it for the first time last night to. Caused a wipe on that widow boss because my vent wasnt working and I didn't know the fight so I destroyed one of those duders when she wasn't enraged :lol

overall it was pretty easy though, i just wish my guild wasnt so damn casual. we cleared that and they're not going to work on another wing for a few days.

 

[TomServo]

Perhaps that's because 90% of the game is leveling up/PVP now? What's the easiest way to level up? DPS. What's a major pain in the ass? Respeccing for one certain thing, then respeccing back to go do the other 90% of the game. Dual-speccing would help with this, but blizz is dragging ass?

In heroics (the point of the post that started this round of discussion)?

Dual-speccing isn't going to fix anything for hybrids at this stage because everyone is focused on gearing up their main spec. If anything it's going to cause more problems by giving dps specs more reason to roll need on off/alt-spec gear.

That's why "hybrids" are never really "hybrids". So, why bother with them at all?

I played one, and at max level I never had a problem with the jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none status they had at the time. It was nice to have my role change from encounter to encounter while my warlock friend did nothing but spam shadowbolt.

I really wouldn't have a problem with dps normalization if they'd give legit main tanking and/or main healing specs to hunters, warlock, rogues, and mages. At this point, if hybrids, tanks, and healers are going to do the same dps, why bother with a pure dps class at all?

Why?

Nobody will take any of those classes anywhere in a PUG group anyways.

Why? Because in the near future if I'm trying to pug a heroic or run one with other guild second stringers while on the waitlist for raids I'd love to take over healing duties for the typical group of two pallys and two shaman that for some reason "need healz".

It's not about QQ or e-peen. It's simply about having a larger pool of classes to fill all the roles needed in a heroic.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Lol .... I'm a fury warrior and I've already gotten my T7 chest & gloves via badges, neck piece and Mirror of Truth trinket ... that is 205 badges and I still have 26 more. Sure I have gotten some of the badges from Heroics and Naxx .... but come on.

Maybe all the fury warriors in your groups just blow? Maybe your server should learn to stop sucking? Prot tanks give me Vigilance, I do more DPS than anyone in the group by a damn good margin ... don't really know why groups wouldn't want a high DPS class. What the hell do rogues offer over Fury? Oh boy ... a shitty sap in these ridiculously easy heroics .... and stuns.

Hell ... half the groups I run in with guildies is .... prot war, unholy dps dk, fury war, holy priest and a marks hunter. We don't CC a damn thing and we have never ran into a problem in any heroics.

Maybe I don't want you in my group either.

I think he means poorly geared people with those specs that don't have talented/well geared guildies to run with.

My guild master is a ret paladin and they are clearing naxx.

I personally feel any class/spec is useful with the right gear and support.

 

[winnarps]

I'm in a guild that's got Naxx25/etc. on farm (if that's even worth saying), and I can definitely say DPS-spec "healing" classes are amazing in Heroics.

Boomkin + Elemental Shaman + Frostfire Mage = godly. The crit synergies are insane.

This DPS elitism is a stupid thing to argue about. I don't understand why people are so resistant to the change that any spec is viable now (for DPS). You just need people who know how to play.

And this is coming from a Mage. I have no problems with Druids, Paladins, or Shamans DPSing. I've embraced it wholeheartedly.

 

[Macattk15]

I'm in a guild that's got Naxx25/etc. on farm (if that's even worth saying), and I can definitely say DPS-spec "healing" classes are amazing in Heroics.

Boomkin + Elemental Shaman + Frostfire Mage = godly. The crit synergies are insane.

This DPS elitism is a stupid thing to argue about. I don't understand why people are so resistant to the change that any spec is viable now (for DPS). You just need people who know how to play.

And this is coming from a Mage. I have no problems with Druids, Paladins, or Shamans DPSing. I've embraced it wholeheartedly.

It's the same with Melee spec Hybrids too now ...

Fury Warrior + Enhancement Shaman + Ret Paladin (to an extent) = awesome.

Fury brings Leader of the Pack now basically ... Enhancement buffs the HELL out of melee ... Rets bring Imp Kings and prolly other things that I don't notice Though I guess Enhancement always did buff the hell out of melee, but it seems so even more now ... with Strength of Earth and Grace of Air totems being smashed together.

My Naxx raid last night ... I had over 6k AP buffed. Was pulling 3.5k DPS for the length of time I was going all out ... had to cool it down when I was getting up there in threat.

 

[TomServo]

This DPS elitism is a stupid thing to argue about. I don't understand why people are so resistant to the change that any spec is viable now (for DPS). You just need people who know how to play.

It's not elitism. It's watching a role be adopted by every class in the game while the other two roles remain some sort of sacred thing that can only belong to their traditional practitioners.

When you boil it down, we're still looking at three roles. Tank, healer, dps. You've got two classes that can do it all (paladin and druid), two classes that can heal and dps (priest and shaman), and two classes that can tank and dps (warrior and death knight). If you're looking at things from a pure utility standpoint, why play the other classes?

I like opening up the roles to more classes - hell, I've have more luck with paladins as tanks and healers than with prot warriors and holy priests - so why stop with the dps role and not open up the other two?

 

[dave is ok]

And this is coming from a Mage. I have no problems with Druids, Paladins, or Shamans DPSing. I've embraced it wholeheartedly.

Cloth user has no problem with leather, plate or mail users DPSing. Breaking News!

Better pray for good rolls on spell damage trinkets

 

[winnarps]

Considering the amount of loot one can get from running all 10-mans and 25-mans every week, loot should be a non-issue really.

And there is so much variety among the fights in raids these days that every class has a chance to excel. The blues have already said that they've made DPS competitive between classes, but that the main DPS classes will still top meters if it's just single target, straight DPS, given all equal gear. And then it's just that, damage meters. The boss still dies, the content is still easy (my main problem with WotLK), people still get loot.

And I rolled a mage because I primarily wanted to do damage. Yeah, sure, Mr. Druid can respec and do each role just fine (DPS, heal, tank), but do I want to be nagged by my raid leader to respec for a raid night? No. Do I want to be turned down from a heroic pug because I'm not a spec they want? No. People know up front that I DPS, and that's it. I also don't need to carry a shit ton of other gear around. My role is simple.

People complain that pure DPSers can't hold multiple roles now, but they also have the option of rerolling, which is a ridiculously easy thing to do now, too.

 

[TomServo]

People complain that pure DPSers can't hold multiple roles now, but they also have the option of rerolling, which is a ridiculously easy thing to do now, too.

From someone who just started fresh a couple of months ago, rerolling isn't as trivial as you want to make it seem.

 

[winnarps]

From someone who just started fresh a couple of months ago, rerolling isn't as trivial as you want to make it seem.

So to make sure I'm on the right page here, your argument is that you rolled a character around patch 2.4 fresh and hit level cap, but along the way, Blizzard made massive class changes allowing any class to DPS, and you feel like you're getting the shaft because you'd rather have 1 character able to do it all?

I'm not trying to put anyone down. I just don't understand some of the arguments.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

With one spec each, I see no issue between the classes. Healers logically need to be able to do damage to level. So, they obviously have to be somewhat efficient. And if a shadow priest for example has fun dpsing as that as opposed to any of the other class, he should be able to do it well enough to be wanted. You have to focus on one spec to progress and people let you have gear for a respec if no one in the party currently needs it.

Dual specing will obviously cause issues.

In pugs, I think the best thing to do is say something along the lines of "Rule: You can only need roll on items for the spec you're currently using in this instance. However, if no one else needs an item for your second spec, you can have it."

In a progressing guild with people that are your friends... you're probably clearing things nicely and probably are focusing more on one spec. In this scenario, I don't think anyone would want to "steal" an item from a pure dps, tank, or healing class since they are your support/people you raid with/need it more. This is the only way to instance without getting pissed off by the way, as we all know.

There will always be people that are greedy and try to be sly, so you have to raid with people you know /like or control the pug well and fairly(maybe even master loot). For example, I ran a pug last night and a guy was trying to DE the blue boss drops no one needed and keep them for his enchanting. Sorry buddy, we all need gold. Oh, and more amusing... I was leveling a new toon during TBC and ran Stratholmem for kicks. This guy/girl was acting cutesy and flirty and would say things like "Im going to need roll on these gloves(downgrade) since mine are currently red." and "I'm going to need roll on Baron's mount cause I don't have one yet!! " He/she admitted when they group was first getting started that he needed to farm gold for his/her mount.

 

[Nitsuj23]

For normal level 80 instances most DKs should be able to tank as long as they're Frost or Unholy.

But for level 80 heroics it's a whole different story. It is extremely difficult to hit the 540 defense cap for a Death Knight since there are no two-handed weapons with tank stats on them, they cannot equip shields, no gun/bow/crossbow/thrown and there are like three or four sigils in the game and none of them have tanking stats or abilities onto them.

Even with the defense cap Death Knight tanking is very bursty and most healers cannot accurately gauge when to use big heals or cooldowns to keep them up. When a Death Knight uses abilities like Icebound Fortitutde or Lichborne or Bone Shield it'll be nice and smooth for 10-20 seconds and all of a sudden they take three hits for 75% of their health bar. Expect this to change however since Ghostcrawler has stated they're looking into tweaking Death Knight tanking.

Edit:

However I will reiterate my own opinion that the following classes with these specs are failure for 5 man heroics.

Shaman-Elemental
Shaman-Enhancement
Paladin-Retribution
Druid-Balance
Priest-Shadow
Warrior-Arms
Warrior-Fury

Nobody wants you guys in 5 mans. If you want badges and gear then do us all a favor and respec to a spec that works well until you get your shit. I don't see how it could be worse than being stuck in LFG channel all day because nobody wants your shitty spec.

You're an idiot. All of those specs do very well when played right. Let me reiterate, you're an idiot.

 

[TomServo]

So to make sure I'm on the right page here, your argument is that you rolled a character around patch 2.4 fresh and hit level cap, but along the way, Blizzard made massive class changes allowing any class to DPS, and you feel like you're getting the shaft because you'd rather have 1 character able to do it all?

Blue coming out and saying that DPS normalization among the classes is something they intend to accomplish is in fact something new since 2.4

 

[DarkAngelYuna]

For normal level 80 instances most DKs should be able to tank as long as they're Frost or Unholy.

But for level 80 heroics it's a whole different story. It is extremely difficult to hit the 540 defense cap for a Death Knight since there are no two-handed weapons with tank stats on them, they cannot equip shields, no gun/bow/crossbow/thrown and there are like three or four sigils in the game and none of them have tanking stats or abilities onto them.

Even with the defense cap Death Knight tanking is very bursty and most healers cannot accurately gauge when to use big heals or cooldowns to keep them up. When a Death Knight uses abilities like Icebound Fortitutde or Lichborne or Bone Shield it'll be nice and smooth for 10-20 seconds and all of a sudden they take three hits for 75% of their health bar. Expect this to change however since Ghostcrawler has stated they're looking into tweaking Death Knight tanking.

Edit:

However I will reiterate my own opinion that the following classes with these specs are failure for 5 man heroics.

Shaman-Elemental
Shaman-Enhancement
Paladin-Retribution
Druid-Balance
Priest-Shadow
Warrior-Arms
Warrior-Fury

Nobody wants you guys in 5 mans. If you want badges and gear then do us all a favor and respec to a spec that works well until you get your shit. I don't see how it could be worse than being stuck in LFG channel all day because nobody wants your shitty spec.

For the love of all thats holy please go back to the wow.com forums.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Given that in 90% of 5-man groups 3 out of 5 of the group are DPS, I don't see what the problem is in allowing all classes to effectively DPS. Especially given that many players find out that they simply aren't cut out to tank and heal stuff past the mid-levels.

I almost wish it happened to more players. As a tank (and GF as healer), I'm not sure what's more annoying than complaining about either from a warlock who's only responsibilities are a) targeting the fucking skull, and b) rolling thier face on the keyboard.

That said, I think every spec should be capable of adequately doing their job. Now I'm not saying I want Fury Warriors out DPSing Mages, but it shouldn't be such that Fury Warriors are actually incapable of grouping.

 

[Hero]

Lol .... I'm a fury warrior and I've already gotten my T7 chest & gloves via badges, neck piece and Mirror of Truth trinket ... that is 205 badges and I still have 26 more. Sure I have gotten some of the badges from Heroics and Naxx .... but come on.

Maybe all the fury warriors in your groups just blow? Maybe your server should learn to stop sucking? Prot tanks give me Vigilance, I do more DPS than anyone in the group by a damn good margin ... don't really know why groups wouldn't want a high DPS class. What the hell do rogues offer over Fury? Oh boy ... a shitty sap in these ridiculously easy heroics .... and stuns.

Hell ... half the groups I run in with guildies is .... prot war, unholy dps dk, fury war, holy priest and a marks hunter. We don't CC a damn thing and we have never ran into a problem in any heroics.

Maybe I don't want you in my group either.

Notice I said 5-man heroic dungeons, not 10/25 man raids. I am aware of the DPS that warriors are capable of. The problem is that a good majority of fury warriors are complete idiots who don't let the tank get a good hold on aggro before they start unloading on a mob. The difference between a Rogue and a Fury Warrior is that if the Rogue pulls aggro he has multiple ways of dealing with it (Vanish to reset aggro, Evasion, Stun, Dismantle, etc) while all a Fury Warrior is going to do is eat a few more hits and die.

You're an idiot. All of those specs do very well when played right. Let me reiterate, you're an idiot.

Your argument skills are top notch. You really showed me.

For the love of all thats holy please go back to the wow.com forums.

And go get your account hacked again.

 

[Epix]

Notice I said 5-man heroic dungeons, not 10/25 man raids. I am aware of the DPS that warriors are capable of. The problem is that a good majority of fury warriors are complete idiots who don't let the tank get a good hold on aggro before they start unloading on a mob. The difference between a Rogue and a Fury Warrior is that if the Rogue pulls aggro he has multiple ways of dealing with it (Vanish to reset aggro, Evasion, Stun, Dismantle, etc) while all a Fury Warrior is going to do is eat a few more hits and die.

So you're judgment of certain class-spec combos being "fail" is based on how you saw someone play it and not on the spec itself?

Your argument skills are top notch. You really showed me.

In his defense, anyone who knows how to play them game would know your shortsighted view was unworthy of argument.

 

[TomServo]

I almost wish it happened to more players. As a tank (and GF as healer), I'm not sure what's more annoying than complaining about either from a warlock who's only responsibilities are a) targeting the fucking skull, and b) rolling thier face on the keyboard.

Try facerolling a warlock after 3.0. Affliction is our best DPS spec, but only if you can manage six DOTs with different cast times, different refresh times, some that are front-loaded, some that are back-loaded, etc. Oh yeah, better get a shadow bolt in when you have the chance not only for raw damage but also to keep 2x shadow embrace up.

Facerolling? Try healing. Did that for two years, WoW whack-a-mole is the very definition of facerolling.

 

[Kintaro]

And I rolled a mage because I primarily wanted to do damage. Yeah, sure, Mr. Druid can respec and do each role just fine (DPS, heal, tank), but do I want to be nagged by my raid leader to respec for a raid night? No. Do I want to be turned down from a heroic pug because I'm not a spec they want? No. People know up front that I DPS, and that's it. I also don't need to carry a shit ton of other gear around. My role is simple.

Looking back, I wish I would have done this. I should have rolled a Rogue or something (since I like melee). No chance of doing that now though.

 

[DarkAngelYuna]

Notice I said 5-man heroic dungeons, not 10/25 man raids. I am aware of the DPS that warriors are capable of. The problem is that a good majority of fury warriors are complete idiots who don't let the tank get a good hold on aggro before they start unloading on a mob. The difference between a Rogue and a Fury Warrior is that if the Rogue pulls aggro he has multiple ways of dealing with it (Vanish to reset aggro, Evasion, Stun, Dismantle, etc) while all a Fury Warrior is going to do is eat a few more hits and die.



Your argument skills are top notch. You really showed me.



And go get your account hacked again.

Hey, atleast I know how to play. Your comments on classes just proved how much you don't know.

 

[witness]

Edit:

However I will reiterate my own opinion that the following classes with these specs are failure for 5 man heroics.

Shaman-Elemental
Shaman-Enhancement
Paladin-Retribution
Druid-Balance
Priest-Shadow
Warrior-Arms
Warrior-Fury

Nobody wants you guys in 5 mans. If you want badges and gear then do us all a favor and respec to a spec that works well until you get your shit. I don't see how it could be worse than being stuck in LFG channel all day because nobody wants your shitty spec.

You are insane, last night I ran heroic UP with a elemental shammy, balance druid, shadow priest, me (pally tank) and a holy priest and we owned the hell out of the place. The balance druid was actually doing the highest dps, 1700ish I believe while the ele shammy and spriest were in the 1500-1600 range. No wipes, easy run. My guild heroic runs that I do usually have that elemental shammy and shadow priest with me.

I will gladly take any dps that just knows how to play the game to heroics with me, I don't care about what dps spec you're rolling with. I just try to get different classes so that rolls are contended most of the time.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I love Balance Druids in my groups as long as they are good...I don't understand why people hate them. They do tons of damage with my groupings.

 

[dave is ok]

The game is busted when hybrids in their DPS spec do more damage than pure damage classes, which is what is happening right now with certain classes. Theres nothing wrong with speccing to fit a different role, but hybrid damage is a bit too high atm.

 

[Epix]

The game is busted when hybrids in their DPS spec do more damage than pure damage classes, which is what is happening right now with certain classes. Theres nothing wrong with speccing to fit a different role, but hybrid damage is a bit too high atm.

I think it's been said before by Blizzard that with all things being equal (gear, player skill, ect) pure dps classes will out dps hybrids by a small margin.

 

[dave is ok]

I think it's been said before by Blizzard that with all things being equal (gear, player skill, ect) pure dps classes will out dps hybrids by a small margin.

Then I trust them to fix it

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Then I trust them to fix it

The only hybrid that is even remotely close to pure dps classes is shadow priest, and possibly enh shammies.

 

[Epix]

Then I trust them to fix it

Fix what?

Any pure dps class that can't out dps a hybrid of similar gear doesn't have a good attack rotation and isn't paying enough attention to what's going on.

 

[dave is ok]

The only hybrid that is even remotely close to pure dps classes is shadow priest, and possibly enh shammies.

Feral druids can be in the top 5 easily, even while tanking. Ret pallies still do absurd amounts of damage, and Moonkins are probably a bit too high.

Hunters and Rogues still do absurd damage, but mages and locks are usually below a couple hybrids.

 

[dave is ok]

Any pure dps class that can't out dps a hybrid of similar gear doesn't have a good attack rotation and isn't paying enough attention to what's going on.

This isn't the case right now.

Let me guess, you're one of those ret pallies who were claiming they were "fine" after 3.0?

 

[the_gr8mitypoo]

Feral druids can be in the top 5 easily, even while tanking. Ret pallies still do absurd amounts of damage, and Moonkins are probably a bit too high.

Hunters and Rogues still do absurd damage, but mages and locks are usually below a couple hybrids.

I play a warlock and we are currently doing naxx, like most people. I often times find myself out DPSed by rogues mages and hunters by quite a large margin. I'm nearly hit capped and speced affliction and am pulling 1.6-1.8k DPS. I just feel i should be up there with the "pure DPS."

I just feels that I'm doing more work keeping up all my DoTs than a Hunter is doing. I have a 70 hunter and know that I do more work on my warlock but I can't say the same for the other classes because I've never really played any others.

I just feel like I'm putting in more work and getting out less that other classes damage wise.

 

[Lain]

Edit:

However I will reiterate my own opinion that the following classes with these specs are failure for 5 man heroics.

Shaman-Elemental
Shaman-Enhancement
Paladin-Retribution
Druid-Balance
Priest-Shadow
Warrior-Arms
Warrior-Fury

Nobody wants you guys in 5 mans. If you want badges and gear then do us all a favor and respec to a spec that works well until you get your shit. I don't see how it could be worse than being stuck in LFG channel all day because nobody wants your shitty spec.

I understand it is just your opinion, but I find most of those class/specs useful in 5 mans. Most of those classes/specs bring good dps (both single target and aoe) with the added bonus of utility.
None of those specs are shitty anymore as well. The players behind them might be shitty, but all those specs are pretty good right now. Calling them shitty because you'd prefer to see them healing/tanking as those roles aren't filled right now goes a bit overboard imho, that is if that is the reason why you're calling them shitty.

 

[dave is ok]

I just feel like I'm putting in more work and getting out less that other classes damage wise.

It's because you are. I'm in the same boat as you