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[GDJustin]

Boomkins are major major DPS these days. I'd take a good Boomkin into a 10man before almost any other DPS class/spec.

 

[border]

I play a warlock and we are currently doing naxx, like most people. I often times find myself out DPSed by rogues mages and hunters by quite a large margin. I'm nearly hit capped and speced affliction and am pulling 1.6-1.8k DPS. I just feel i should be up there with the "pure DPS."

Just find a build to do Shadowbolt spam with. They've already said that they think Affliction spell rotation is too complicated, and they're looking for ways to simplify it. I suspect it will be something like having Haunt refresh the duration of all UA/Corruption/Curses, so you can just spam Haunt and Shadowbolt.

 

[Hero]

So you're judgment of certain class-spec combos being "fail" is based on how you saw someone play it and not on the spec itself?

While there are always exceptions to the rule for the most part it's pretty true. There's a reason for the huntard stigma. It's okay though, I understand that all the hybrids are enjoying the fact that they can actually put up dps now.

In his defense, anyone who knows how to play them game would know your shortsighted view was unworthy of argument.

Then why bother responding at all?

Hey, atleast I know how to play. Your comments on classes just proved how much you don't know.

I've been in end game guilds, I know how the classes and specs work in optimal 25 man raid positions. But for 5 man heroics hybrids are for the most part mediocre.

You are insane, last night I ran heroic UP with a elemental shammy, balance druid, shadow priest, me (pally tank) and a holy priest and we owned the hell out of the place. The balance druid was actually doing the highest dps, 1700ish I believe while the ele shammy and spriest were in the 1500-1600 range. No wipes, easy run. My guild heroic runs that I do usually have that elemental shammy and shadow priest with me.

I will gladly take any dps that just knows how to play the game to heroics with me, I don't care about what dps spec you're rolling with. I just try to get different classes so that rolls are contended most of the time.

Hey, that's great and all. I'm not saying that good players with those specs can't make it work. But when trying to PUG for 5 man heroics the average elemental shaman, shadow priest or balance druid's dps are going to be average.

I love Balance Druids in my groups as long as they are good...I don't understand why people hate them. They do tons of damage with my groupings.

Generally a Balance Druid has to be good at watching his threat because he can easily generate a lot of it and overtake the tank. In raid situations with buffs they do fantastic dps and offer a great aura.

I understand it is just your opinion, but I find most of those class/specs useful in 5 mans. Most of those classes/specs bring good dps (both single target and aoe) with the added bonus of utility.
None of those specs are shitty anymore as well. The players behind them might be shitty, but all those specs are pretty good right now. Calling them shitty because you'd prefer to see them healing/tanking as those roles aren't filled right now goes a bit overboard imho, that is if that is the reason why you're calling them shitty.

Granted Retribution Paladins are pretty good with AOE, especially in undead instances, but the others are okay.



As for hybrid vs pures, right now Blizzard has gone absolutely overboard with giving dps to other classes. Actually, going by most data collected, Hunters are blowing everyone away so far in WotLK.

 

[Angry Grimace]

While there are always exceptions to the rule for the most part it's pretty true. There's a reason for the huntard stigma. It's okay though, I understand that all the hybrids are enjoying the fact that they can actually put up dps now.

Generally a Balance Druid has to be good at watching his threat because he can easily generate a lot of it and overtake the tank. In raid situations with buffs they do fantastic dps and offer a great aura.

Vigiliance removes that problem, plus, I almost never have an issue with threat, at least in 5-mans.

Huntards are huntards becuase most of time they can't seem to manage a pet and themselves at the same time.

 

[Sullen]

Hey, that's great and all. I'm not saying that good players with those specs can't make it work. But when trying to PUG for 5 man heroics the average elemental shaman, shadow priest or balance druid's dps are going to be average.

I get what you are saying here, and generally agree (I play a hybrid spec on one of my chars btw) but I think this can be said of just about any PUG player, regardless of class/spec. I mean, realistically most random WoW players are going to be pretty bad or average, which is why I don't group outside of guild or friends generally.

Also, in my experience, the good hybrid spec players tend to be *really* good because they had to be in order to be competitive to traditional classes and builds in the past. Now with the dps boosts to the hybrids, those 'good' players really shot beyond a lot of the traditional players.

 

[Scrow]

As for hybrid vs pures, right now Blizzard has gone absolutely overboard with giving dps to other classes. Actually, going by most data collected, Hunters are blowing everyone away so far in WotLK.

hunters are a "pure dps" class like mages and rogues.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

I just feel like I'm putting in more work and getting out less that other classes damage wise.

Yes and no. While true, it takes no effort at all to steady shot your way to 3k dps, that just means it takes even more effort to distinguish yourself further with gear/buff/timer/ability usage.

I hated AotV while leveling, but it makes for ridiculously fun bossfights now.

 

[Hero]

Vigiliance removes that problem, plus, I almost never have an issue with threat, at least in 5-mans.

Huntards are huntards becuase most of time they can't seem to manage a pet and themselves at the same time.

Druid, Paladins and Death Knight tanks do not have Vigilance. And again, if you're a good player, I don't doubt that you can hold your aggo well. I don't have faith in the majority of fury warriors that I see in the LFG channel.

I get what you are saying here, and generally agree (I play a hybrid spec on one of my chars btw) but I think this can be said of just about any PUG player, regardless of class/spec. I mean, realistically most random WoW players are going to be pretty bad or average, which is why I don't group outside of guild or friends generally.

Also, in my experience, the good hybrid spec players tend to be *really* good because they had to be in order to be competitive to traditional classes and builds in the past. Now with the dps boosts to the hybrids, those 'good' players really shot beyond a lot of the traditional players.

Yeah, skilled players even in lesser classes/gear/spec will always outshine mediocre/bad players. And hybrids who are good at their class that will taunt to offtank an extra mob or heal the MT or battle rez are clutch and that's awesome. I'm just saying those players are few and far between.

hunters are a "pure dps" class like mages and rogues.

No way, really? Hunters are pure dps?

Here's the data for the top 15 WWS reports for Patchwerk right now with class/spec numbers averaged:

BM Hunters: 5112.90 (31)
Mages: 4742.57 (30) Every mage was Frostfire spec
MM Hunters: 4704.38 (8)
Warlocks: 4454.06 (36)
Fury Warriors: 4441.50 (14)
Enh Shaman: 4431.00 (17)
Feral Druids: 4351.50 (4)
MS Warriors: 4252 (4)
Moonkin: 4244.60 (10)
Mut Rogues: 4225.77 (13)
Surv. Hunters: 4128 (1)
HAT Rogues: 4103 (1)
S. Priests: 4058.29 (21)
Combat Rogues: 3994.87 (23)
Ret. Paladin: 3915 (14)
Death Knights: 3770.93 (14) I am fairly sure a large amount of these death knight were not DPS specced.
Ele Shaman: 3322.85 (13)

400 dps over the next highest class (who is also a pure dps) is still a lot of damage. Mages, warlocks and rogues need to be brought up to par. Poor Elemental Shamans though.

 

[Ripclawe]

Mages: 4742.57 (30) Every mage was Frostfire spec

I have a couple of blues gear from quests and some greens and went deep fire Frostfire. The crits and bursts are amazing.

 

[Wes]

Did Naxx for the first time ever tonight (10 Man). Cleared the Spider wing but we lacked dps and only just killed Patchwerk on our third try.

Was very fun though. I'm one of the minority that is glad Naxx is at the level it is because I get to experience the content I missed years ago.

 

[speedpop]

Poor Elemental Shamans though.

Not using Lava Burst as it is intended? Realistically they should be going through a cycle of: Lightning Bolt, Flame Shock, Lightning Bolt, Lava Burst, Wind Shock, Lightning Bolt. Repeat as desired or mix it up. The Lava Burst crit itself should be nearing 8-10K when buffed to the hilt, and the Wind Shock is there to constantly dump your aggro.

I think Elemental Shaman are just pressing the LB button over and over like the old times.

 

[Nitsuj23]

Your argument skills are top notch. You really showed me.
/QUOTE]
It's not worth it to try to change your opinion. Players like you are impossible to convince. Go ahead and take your Warlock, Mages, Rogues, and Hunters only. As an elemental shaman I consistently keep up with equally geared "pure" DPS classes, except with AoE.

 

[Cipherr]

So to make sure I'm on the right page here, your argument is that you rolled a character around patch 2.4 fresh and hit level cap, but along the way, Blizzard made massive class changes allowing any class to DPS, and you feel like you're getting the shaft because you'd rather have 1 character able to do it all?

I'm not trying to put anyone down. I just don't understand some of the arguments.

Your argument of rerolling is just flat out moronic considering its not the levels that the treadmill. Its the content that STARTS at the level cap thats the hurdle. Its grining 12+ factions in Vanilla, then BC and then Wrath to exalted, its THAT kind of stuff that pains rerolling a different class, and no matter how the facking hell you try to spin it, being a hybrid and being a mere 50g (a couple of daily quests) away from fulfilling a completely new role in a raid will ALWAYS trump REROLLING FROM LEVEL 1 AND BUILDING A TOTALLY DIFFERENT CHARACTER. So stop trying to act like rerolling is nothing and equal to just visiting a trainer. Its stupid and noone buys it. Its far from trivial.

The game is busted when hybrids in their DPS spec do more damage than pure damage classes, which is what is happening right now with certain classes. Theres nothing wrong with speccing to fit a different role, but hybrid damage is a bit too high atm.

I play a Hunter, and have yet to see anything moving at 80 that can come anywhere near us except competent and equally geared mages. (I.E. Guildies, or Mages from other tops guilds horde side on my server). From what Ive seen Rogues need some help badly, but other than that none of the Hybrids are coming anywhere close. The mere gap turns into an absolute grand canyon when raid buffs enter the mix.


As for the DPS Warriors/Shaman/Pallies and Heroics, I don't have a problem with them doing DPS. Who the hell cares. Sure most of them seem pretty bad, but then again, most of the pure dps classes are bad players on average to. So theres no reason to discriminate against them. Yeah its frustrating to be PUG'ing a heroic and in need of a tank or healer but all of the classes LFG are specced for DPS. But Im sure theres groups out there looking for a healer and are equally pissed off to see nothing but DPS LFG, so whatever. Seems like you all are arguing about nothing.

And yeah Naxx 10 and 25 are meant to be easy. I thought we all realized this, it isn't supposed to be as challenging as it was at 60. I dont see how it being dumbed down a bit is sad. It was expected.


Edit: A quick comment about all the outcry from most pure dps about the hybrids newfound "dps". Im wondering how much of it is genuine. How much of the crying is because the Hybrids are TRULY tweaked to high in their dps specs, and how much of it is mediocre dps players now being surpassed on the beloved recount charts by the Hybrids who were ALWAYS exceptional/better players, but are just NOW starting to see the effects of it. Its like blizzard said, the gap in damage dealt should be close enough so that the better player comes out on top.

Since everyone considers themselves the better player, (most of the time) the crying should be interesting.

 

[border]

At the end of the day, I'm glad my enjoyment of this game is not affected by finding out that some other class does more DPS than I do.

 

[Hero]

At the end of the day, I'm glad my enjoyment of this game is not affected by finding out that some other class does more DPS than I do.

Who said their enjoyment of the game is effected by it? It's just boggling on why bother rolling a pure dps class if you can roll a hybrid and have more options for spec/gear/buffs and have similar/equal/greater dps?

 

[zam]

Cleared 10-man Naxx tonight. We managed to one-shot Horsemen, Sapphiron and Kel'Thuzad with only two healers (holy priest and resto druid). It was hardest on Four Horsemen since the holy priest was healing both the rivendare tank and the thane group at the same time, thanks to circle of healing and some elaborate positioning, and burning down the first two bosses almost right as the debuffs reached 5 stacks.

Most annoying though was that the only tier 7 tokens that dropped were the Warrior, Hunter, Shaman ones, all except the head token from Kel'Tuzad, which thankfully was a Rogue, Druid, Mage, Death Knight one (I play rogue), didn't get it but was at least happy to see something for me finally drop.

Also the loot in the Wintergrasp raid needs to be fixed. Feels like a complete waste when only loot for one or two classes drop, and none of those classes are in the raid. Wasn't so bad when the reset was on 3-days, but now it's a complete waste of a 7-day reset when tier 7 loot drops and no-one can use it, needs to be switched to tokens asap.

 

[BigJonsson]

hmm

Keeep getting disconnected from my server when the progress bar is loading

wtf


edit - ok my other characters work but not my main, huh

finally worked after like 20 tries

 

[zam]

hmm

Keeep getting disconnected from my server when the progress bar is loading

wtf


edit - ok my other characters work but not my main, huh

My brother was having the exact same problem earlier. He could log into his druid or mage but not his priest main.

 

[Weenerz]

Its one of your mods. It conflicts with Dalaran. Disable them one by one to figure out which is doing it. Blizzard made a post about it on their tech support forums.

 

[Azwethinkweiz]

It's quest helper, you can't load into the game with it if you're in Dalaran.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Who said their enjoyment of the game is effected by it? It's just boggling on why bother rolling a pure dps class if you can roll a hybrid and have more options for spec/gear/buffs and have similar/equal/greater dps?

Why did you use the correct him with the wrong spelling and then bold it as though to emphasize it?

 

[Alex]

Who said their enjoyment of the game is effected by it? It's just boggling on why bother rolling a pure dps class if you can roll a hybrid and have more options for spec/gear/buffs and have similar/equal/greater dps?

Because you... like the class? I leveled up my Paladin first since I primarily heal, but as soon as I get a foothold into where I want to be, I'm going right back and plugging away at my Mage.

I fail to see why it's such a big deal, and I'm willing to bet half of the whiners going off on why it's such a travesty have four or five fuckin' alts.

If this is the "casual" view of things, I think it's time for me to hang up the game again. I honestly have no desire to tank on my DK.

Yeah DK tanking is such a bitch, I mean, it's so wildly hard to grasp the concept of DPSing in Frost Presence instead of DPSing in Blood Presence.

 

[Eric WK]

Why did you use the correct him with the wrong spelling and then bold it as though to emphasize it?

Because Hero is stupid.

 

[border]

Who said their enjoyment of the game is effected by it? It's just boggling on why bother rolling a pure dps class if you can roll a hybrid and have more options for spec/gear/buffs and have similar/equal/greater dps?

af⋅fect
/v. əˈfɛkt; n. ˈæfɛkt/ [v. uh-fekt; n. af-ekt]
–verb (used with object)
1. to act on; produce an effect or change in: Cold weather affected the crops.

I'll admit that there's an imbalance when "pure DPS" can be matched by "hybrid DPS", but I just don't really care. If hybrids can fill DPS raid slots then it's better for everyone. If a mage drops out and a boomkin wants to take his spot, then we can get everything started faster. I can understand that the pure DPS classes don't want more competition for slots in raids and heroics, but they'll have to take a hit for the team. Healers and tanks have similarly seen competition for slots increase, but have weathered the storm pretty well.

 

[DarkJC]

but have weathered the storm pretty well.

I think it's hitting DPS classes the most because there were already a lot of choices for DPS. They were a dime a dozen before, and now there's even more competition. Healers and tanks have always been in shorter supply, and while competition has gone up for them too, it's still like it was before. DPS is even more dime a dozen now, and while there are slightly more healers and tanks out there to fill the gaps, they can still grab a group fairly easily.

It's the ability of a hybrid to be able to DPS with the best but switch to being a healer/tank at will if needed that is the root of the issue, I think.

 

[Hero]

Why did you use the correct him with the wrong spelling and then bold it as though to emphasize it?

Because I always confuse affect vs effect and owned myself.

Because you... like the class? I leveled up my Paladin first since I primarily heal, but as soon as I get a foothold into where I want to be, I'm going right back and plugging away at my Mage.

The point is that there is no reason to bring any other class if one class completely dominates the other nine classes in the game in terms of dealing damage? Is game imbalancing that foreign of a concept for you?

Yeah DK tanking is such a bitch, I mean, it's so wildly hard to grasp the concept of DPSing in Frost Presence instead of DPSing in Blood Presence.

Death Knight tanking is a bitch. It is harder to reach the defense cap for Death Knights versus any other tanking class. They do not have shields to block incoming damage like Warriors or Paladins and they do not have the mitigation of extremely high armor early on or huge amounts of stamina like a Druid does. They have some fantastic avoidance from Dodge and Parry but other than that they have to rely on powerful cooldowns like Icebound Fortitude, Bone Shield and Unbreakable Armor. But once those are up all it takes is unlucky RNG and a DK tank will go from 100% hp to 30% in a matter of two or three hits. The developers have already stated it's probably a bit too bursty and are looking for mitigation.

af⋅fect
/v. əˈfɛkt; n. ˈæfɛkt/ [v. uh-fekt; n. af-ekt]
–verb (used with object)
1. to act on; produce an effect or change in: Cold weather affected the crops.

I'll admit that there's an imbalance when "pure DPS" can be matched by "hybrid DPS", but I just don't really care. If hybrids can fill DPS raid slots then it's better for everyone. If a mage drops out and a boomkin wants to take his spot, then we can get everything started faster. I can understand that the pure DPS classes don't want more competition for slots in raids and heroics, but they'll have to take a hit for the team. Healers and tanks have similarly seen competition for slots increase, but have weathered the storm pretty well.

Here's the thing, I think a lot of people have taken my own stance out of context. My personal preference is that certain specs are not great for heroic 5 mans for the most part. However in 10/25 man raids with buffs, anything goes. There's nothing wrong with that. Better players should always do better than poor players regardless of class. If an elemental shaman can beat a hunter or rogue then props to that player. But given similar gear and player ability if one class is clearly outdoing other classes by a large margin that's bad.

Hybrids have the benefit of being able to respec to a completely different role. With the upcoming dual spec system where players will be able to switch specs mid-raid for free without having to port back and can just slap on a new set of gear, what's the point of taking a pure dps?

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Here's the thing, I think a lot of people have taken my own stance out of context. My personal preference is that certain specs are not great for heroic 5 mans for the most part. However in 10/25 man raids with buffs, anything goes. There's nothing wrong with that. Better players should always do better than poor players regardless of class. If an elemental shaman can beat a hunter or rogue then props to that player. But given similar gear and player ability if one class is clearly outdoing other classes by a large margin that's bad.

Hybrids have the benefit of being able to respec to a completely different role. With the upcoming dual spec system where players will be able to switch specs mid-raid for free without having to port back and can just slap on a new set of gear, what's the point of taking a pure dps?

I think you're going on a lot of assumptions here. Just because the pure classes couldn't go to a tank and a healer whenever they wanted to doesn't mean there isnt a reason to play them. Different specs in Mage classes are good for everything, but as a Druid you only get one caster spec. I also think that its going to be a very long time before anyone has enough gear for both specs to seriously justify changing between the two mid-raid. My Prot Warrior has only the basic DPS gear, and I'm sure people aren't going to easily change their stances on who gets what loot. I know I'm still going to stick to needing on whatever spec I came in the instance with.


I dunno what else to say, It's Blizzard. There's a lot of money riding on keeping all those millions of people happy, I'm sure they're working on it.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Meh. I like healing DKs, but then again, I only run with the 2 in guild who are at Def cap, so yah. It requires (GASP) thinking and (GASP) a tank who isnt self-proctologizing. Not to mention, the last time they dumbed down a fine-working basic mechanic we got shitted-up pet AI and auto-shot clipping removal, so I'm wary.

 

[Kintaro]

Yeah DK tanking is such a bitch, I mean, it's so wildly hard to grasp the concept of DPSing in Frost Presence instead of DPSing in Blood Presence.

Way to ignore everything else I said, plus the inherent problems of DK tanking.

 

[Macattk15]

Notice I said 5-man heroic dungeons, not 10/25 man raids. I am aware of the DPS that warriors are capable of. The problem is that a good majority of fury warriors are complete idiots who don't let the tank get a good hold on aggro before they start unloading on a mob. The difference between a Rogue and a Fury Warrior is that if the Rogue pulls aggro he has multiple ways of dealing with it (Vanish to reset aggro, Evasion, Stun, Dismantle, etc) while all a Fury Warrior is going to do is eat a few more hits and die.



Your argument skills are top notch. You really showed me.



And go get your account hacked again.

I generally go all out in Heroics on trash and bosses a like. Don't really pull hate even though I'm doing about 2.5k DPS constant .... along with Whirlwinding packs of mobs when I can.

This is all with a Prot Warrior tanking mind you with Vigilance on me. That means 20% less threat on me in total. With Pally tanks I don't even look at the Omen Threat Meter because it's generally not an issue.

When I do pull hate ... on trash mobs, they hit me for 2-3k ... and are generally dead in a few more hits by the time I pull hate and since our Priest healer is friggen awesome, there is no worry.

I am sure there are TONS of terrible fury warriors ... but there are also TONS of terrible players at every single other class. Some PUG Warlocks I have grouped with for Heroics have done 900 DPS ... wtf? I did that at 60.

 

[Macattk15]

Then I trust them to fix it

I don't see how people view Warriors has a Hybrid. Hybird generally means you can do a balance of 2 or more things.

There is a LARGE difference in seeing a Arms Warrior or Fury Warrior try to tank as compared to one that is spec'ed Prot. When dual specs come out, I'd consider Warrior a hybrid. I see Arms / Fury being "pure dps" specs of a class that could be a hybrid.

Until then, a Fury or Arms warrior would STRUGGLE with threat and holding groups ... as well as mitigating damage ... thus being a very poor tank.

 

[the_gr8mitypoo]

Some PUG Warlocks I have grouped with for Heroics have done 900 DPS ... wtf? I did that at 60.

Warlocks suck now. Trust me I know I play one. Now I never do that poorly on the damage meters but if that dude is speced affliction in a heroic i can see how he would pull very little especially if you are puling 2.5k DPS... None of his DoTs will even get there full ticks.
He probably sucks too.

 

[Macattk15]

Warlocks suck now. Trust me I know I play one. Now I never do that poorly on the damage meters but if that dude is speced affliction in a heroic i can see how he would pull very little especially if you are puling 2.5k DPS... None of his DoTs will even get there full ticks.
He probably sucks too.

Yeah he was affliction ... I was doing about 2400 DPS sustained or so (granted some of it was AE'ing) and the Enhance shammy was doing about 1600 .... but the other lock was doing like 1300 ..

The lock we kicked as stated above was doing 900 and being outdps'ed by the tank at 1050 or something.

Embarassing some people are. He then proceeded to argue as to why he was so awesome and how he was in the 7th top guild on the server (though I am in one of the top 3) that I had NEVER heard of before.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

I did a roic AN a while back, the lock didn't pull 700 dps. It's now become a running joke of for what buffs it takes to put my pet's autoattack above that.

Anyways, just for kicks and boredom: A compiled list of all the items I've lost rolls on in WotLK. Do note that this includes every item I've rolled against someone for.

Damaged Necklace x3
Tornado Cuffs
Heroes Hand Token
Interwoven Scale Bracers x2
Leggings of the Stone Halls
Sovereign's Belt
King Dred's Helm x3 (OH MY GOD)
Necromatic Wrist
Mobius Band x3 (adfhfdaghfdggggggggggg,,,
Valorous Hands
Valorous Pants
Deadly Hands
Deadly Chest
SO MANY GODDAMN FROZEN ORBS

I'm not QQing or anything, it's just at this point its become a running joke. Right now I'm using a grand total of 4 pieces of gear that aren't badge or rep or crafted.

 

[SuperAndroid17]

anyone have the cookie cutter DK tanking spec? Im honestly looking to switch around from blood. Just bored of dps'n all the time , is it about the same tanking heroics with DK's?

 

[Macattk15]

I did a roic AN a while back, the lock didn't pull 700 dps. It's now become a running joke of for what buffs it takes to put my pet's autoattack above that.

Anyways, just for kicks and boredom: A compiled list of all the items I've lost rolls on in WotLK. Do note that this includes every item I've rolled against someone for.

Damaged Necklace x3
Tornado Cuffs
Heroes Hand Token
Interwoven Scale Bracers x2
Leggings of the Stone Halls
Sovereign's Belt
King Dred's Helm x3 (OH MY GOD)
Necromatic Wrist
Mobius Band x3 (adfhfdaghfdggggggggggg,,,
Valorous Hands
Valorous Pants
Deadly Hands
Deadly Chest
SO MANY GODDAMN FROZEN ORBS

I'm not QQing or anything, it's just at this point its become a running joke. Right now I'm using a grand total of 4 pieces of gear that aren't badge or rep or crafted.

I completely know how you feel. I also have HORRENDOUS luck. I NEVER win rolls and I often get the upgrades last even though I'm one of the highest if not he highest DPS in raids.

Makes me so very sad ... but in some ways it also makes me happy knowing how much better I am at my class than others are with theirs.

 

[Weenerz]

Love my loot luck. I have a almost full lvl80 epic dps set, as well as an almost full epic tanking set. Only thing I really want from heroics is the trinket from Heroic Pinnacle. Damn ret paladin took it from me before.

 

[Richiban]

I don't mind that my rogue is being out DPS'd, but it gets on my nerves when a tank 5 levels above me starts giving me shit about my DPS when when I don't beat them when the damage meter pops up. It happened last night in Violet Hold. I was running with a level 80 Prot Warrior, Level 80 Unholy Death Knight, and a Level 80 Boomkin. The healer and I were both Level 75. After the first boss, someone pulled up the DPS meter and I was 4th on the list. I never put much stock in the meters, only because I play the game to have fun and enjoy myself, but seriously, that pissed me off.

I know rogues, it seems, are a bit of a joke class, but I've always loved playing my rogue. I know my role in groups and raids, and I've got a pretty decent level of CC. What annoyed me right off the bat was in my first experience in the new instances, no CC existed. A prot warrior or pally would run right in and pull whole groups of mobs, no marks or anything like that. It makes me kind of sad that a brand new instance can be ran in an hour or less.

I'm sort of discouraged, but it's not enough to make me quit the game, though I may start playing my prot pally a little more, but I don't know if the aggravation is worth learning to tank with the cocks on my server.

 

[Hero]

I think you're going on a lot of assumptions here. Just because the pure classes couldn't go to a tank and a healer whenever they wanted to doesn't mean there isnt a reason to play them.

So if your class has three specs and all of them are designed to deal damage what's the point of playing it if a class that has two or three different roles can spec their damage and beat you? There is none.

Different specs in Mage classes are good for everything, but as a Druid you only get one caster spec. I also think that its going to be a very long time before anyone has enough gear for both specs to seriously justify changing between the two mid-raid. My Prot Warrior has only the basic DPS gear, and I'm sure people aren't going to easily change their stances on who gets what loot. I know I'm still going to stick to needing on whatever spec I came in the instance with.

Any smart hybrid would be getting an offspec set for shits and giggles right now. It's not going to take a while to get dual spec gear.

I dunno what else to say, It's Blizzard. There's a lot of money riding on keeping all those millions of people happy, I'm sure they're working on it.

I'm sure they are. But when people who have been in beta (like me) said for month that these were problems and it goes live and now the general population of WoW is saying the same thing, it's very facepalm worthy.

 

[Macattk15]

I don't mind that my rogue is being out DPS'd, but it gets on my nerves when a tank 5 levels above me starts giving me shit about my DPS when when I don't beat them when the damage meter pops up. It happened last night in Violet Hold. I was running with a level 80 Prot Warrior, Level 80 Unholy Death Knight, and a Level 80 Boomkin. The healer and I were both Level 75. After the first boss, someone pulled up the DPS meter and I was 4th on the list. I never put much stock in the meters, only because I play the game to have fun and enjoy myself, but seriously, that pissed me off.

I know rogues, it seems, are a bit of a joke class, but I've always loved playing my rogue. I know my role in groups and raids, and I've got a pretty decent level of CC. What annoyed me right off the bat was in my first experience in the new instances, no CC existed. A prot warrior or pally would run right in and pull whole groups of mobs, no marks or anything like that. It makes me kind of sad that a brand new instance can be ran in an hour or less.

I'm sort of discouraged, but it's not enough to make me quit the game, though I may start playing my prot pally a little more, but I don't know if the aggravation is worth learning to tank with the cocks on my server.

You horde? Come xfer to my server, the guild i'm in has ZERO rogues! Rogue loot dropped like crazy in Naxx last night and we just offspec'ed or DE'ed it!

 

[No Means Nomad]

I really dislike this thread.

This if the first time in like, two or three years I'm making my cloak visible.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Any smart hybrid would be getting an offspec set for shits and giggles right now. It's not going to take a while to get dual spec gear.

Yea, not really sure where that's coming from. Everyone knows people gear their offspecs to hell and back. Fuck, some of those items I've lost were to people just screwing around in offspecs.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

My prot warrior will be dinging 72 today when I turn in my next quest--after that, I think I'm going to grab my priest out of the mothballs and instance level her out of her rest state--she's at 66 now, so I should be able to almost squeak into northrend.

Still can't decide what to do with my 70 druid. I haven't logged in with him since before WotLK launched, but I like being a tree oh-so-much...I just don't like the thought of tediously leveling him to 80 too. Although he'll probably level a lot easier than my priest. God damn these decisions!

Anyway, anyone else play on Darkspear as horde? I'd totally do some instancing with some gaffers.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Utgarde Keep is so easy. My gear isn't even good
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ravenholdt&n=Goinio

It must have been an absolute bore for you people with heroic/rep gear lol

 

[Epix]

I really dislike this thread.

This if the first time in like, two or three years I'm making my cloak visible.

How do you make equipment invisible?

 

[Infinitemadness]

I really dislike this thread.

This if the first time in like, two or three years I'm making my cloak visible.

Is that Ice Striker's Cloak? Just had that made myself...I think I'll turn my cloak off tho

 

[GDJustin]

Yeah he was affliction ... I was doing about 2400 DPS sustained or so (granted some of it was AE'ing) and the Enhance shammy was doing about 1600 .... but the other lock was doing like 1300 ..

The lock we kicked as stated above was doing 900 and being outdps'ed by the tank at 1050 or something.

Embarassing some people are. He then proceeded to argue as to why he was so awesome and how he was in the 7th top guild on the server (though I am in one of the top 3) that I had NEVER heard of before.

I'm a semi-casual affliction warlock. I don't raid, I don't have amazing gear (1534 spell dmg), and I'm doing about ~1300 DPS in heroics these days.

Edit: I guess even KNOWING my dps, and having an addon to track it makes me pretty hardcore. I guess I mostly mean I'm casual because I'm just not that great :lol :lol I enjoy WoW but I'm far from pro.

 

[Farnack]

Here's the thing, I think a lot of people have taken my own stance out of context. My personal preference is that certain specs are not great for heroic 5 mans for the most part. However in 10/25 man raids with buffs, anything goes. There's nothing wrong with that. Better players should always do better than poor players regardless of class. If an elemental shaman can beat a hunter or rogue then props to that player. But given similar gear and player ability if one class is clearly outdoing other classes by a large margin that's bad.

Hybrids have the benefit of being able to respec to a completely different role. With the upcoming dual spec system where players will be able to switch specs mid-raid for free without having to port back and can just slap on a new set of gear, what's the point of taking a pure dps?

People were bitching in beta about damage being normalized across all classes, now it's the other way around. XD

I think those elemental shamans weren't doing well. I've been in heroics where ele shamans were outdpsing bm huntards. I think there's a lot more to consider than just look at the class type and average dps.

 

[Cipherr]

Need more hardcore Scribes on my server. Having some trouble getting the last couple of cards for my Nobles Deck. Best in slot trinket by a landslide for hunters. I just really wish they would get our panther trinket back in under Jewelcrafting. Nothing against the Mirror trinket, but I don't like it much. Its internal cooldown is just to high. I would much prefer an on use high AP bonus with 2 sockets and some passive on equip AP.

 

[etiolate]

Not using Lava Burst as it is intended? Realistically they should be going through a cycle of: Lightning Bolt, Flame Shock, Lightning Bolt, Lava Burst, Wind Shock, Lightning Bolt. Repeat as desired or mix it up. The Lava Burst crit itself should be nearing 8-10K when buffed to the hilt, and the Wind Shock is there to constantly dump your aggro.

I think Elemental Shaman are just pressing the LB button over and over like the old times.

No, actually they are all using LvB and its not all that hot. Infact, the wonky hybrid spell damage build just spamming LB is a result of Lava Burst not being up to par. LvB only hits for 2k more than a LB crit, and doesn't trigger Lightning Overload or the commonly used haste totem. Nor does it work well with haste at all.

Deep eles cast the flameshock, lvb, lblblb, lvb and repeat pattern pretty often. It gets off though from various haste buffs and other things, so its hard to keep completely tight.

For an example, I had to sacrifice flameshock on Kel Thuzad fight in Naxx to keep my shock interrupts always up. Without the free crit to LvB, I still was doing fine dps but not tops. It's only 20-30% of dps on a regular fight and to be truly worth all the effort put into it, it needs to be critting for 2x what LB does and it is nowhere there.

It's so fucked up for Eles right now that Enhance is hitting bigger with Lightning Bolt than they are.

Hero is still an idiot though. Reminds me of when we did ZA bear runs with a smite priest, boomkin and my Ele. People responded "well I guess the rogue did well enough to bail the rest of you out." The truth was Ele/Boomkin was nasty dps synergy in BC that the old fuds never learned about.