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Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Having only played for a couple months, I just don't get those guys in trade chat channels that stand around in Dalaran for hours insulting each other over thier most recent DPS, which is always higher than any normal persons, and then a million other guys come on to criticise it saying "I do 5K sustained." WTF is that all about?
 

LiveWire

Member
Thinking of starting a Dark Knight on my main's PVP server. Question. Do Dark Knights ally with the race's faction or are they hated (i.e. targetable) by both Horde and Alliance?
 

Epix

Member
DKs are OP.

Too bad you can't turn off tabard visibility. Sucks when you have several tier pieces that should look cohesive except for this bright purple towel draped across your chest.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
LiveWire said:
Thinking of starting a Dark Knight on my main's PVP server. Question. Do Dark Knights ally with the race's faction or are they hated (i.e. targetable) by both Horde and Alliance?
After a 2-3 hour quest line you will be allied with whatever faction your race is in and targetable by the opposing faction. The fact you cannot leave Acherus until a quest giver commands you to go to Stormwind or Orgrimmar makes it a moot point. I do not believe you can be targeted by the opposing faction while inside Acherus, at least not until you have allied with your race's faction.
 

Onemic

Member
Epix said:
DKs are OP.

Too bad you can't turn off tabard visibility. Sucks when you have several tier pieces that should look cohesive except for this bright purple towel draped across your chest.

PLEASE don't start the DK's are op bullshit people are saying. Why do you think they're mostly getting buffs in the next patch?
 

Epix

Member
onemic said:
PLEASE don't start the DK's are op bullshit people are saying. Why do you think they're mostly getting buffs in the next patch?
Dude, when they're doing 5k+ dps with average gear/stats they're OP. And excuse me if I'm mistaken but they're getting tanking/mitigation buffs correct? DPS is out of whack.
 
Epix said:
Dude, when they're doing 5k+ dps with average gear/stats they're OP. And excuse me if I'm mistaken but they're getting tanking/mitigation buffs correct? DPS is out of whack.
Only thing that bothers me in PvP is the. fucking. Death. Grip. FUCK!


Although I guess it only bothers Hunters and Mages :lol
 

LiveWire

Member
Angry Grimace said:
After a 2-3 hour quest line you will be allied with whatever faction your race is in and targetable by the opposing faction. The fact you cannot leave Acherus until a quest giver commands you to go to Stormwind or Orgrimmar makes it a moot point. I do not believe you can be targeted by the opposing faction while inside Acherus, at least not until you have allied with your race's faction.

That's odd, isn't the entire storyline supposed to be Azeroth vs. Arthas? Wouldn't Death Knights be hated by both factions?
 

Flib

Member
LiveWire said:
That's odd, isn't the entire storyline supposed to be Azeroth vs. Arthas? Wouldn't Death Knights be hated by both factions?

It will make sense after you finish the starting area. It's extremely scripted and has a lot of fantastic story.
 

Onemic

Member
Epix said:
Dude, when they're doing 5k+ dps with average gear/stats they're OP. And excuse me if I'm mistaken but they're getting tanking/mitigation buffs correct? DPS is out of whack.

lol no DK does 5kdps with average gear. NO DK. now you're just making stats up. I would consider my gear to be average, and I only get around 2kdps. and tanking as well as the blood tree is getting buffs. so yes they're buffing certain dps aspects of the DK. They're nerfing certain DK abilities that I will admit were OP in pvp, but its mostly 100% buffs. If you want to talk about an OP class talk about ret pallys.

and xabora I just tried the unholy aura with DW spec, DPS now goes below 2k. This DW experiment seems to be a complete failure at the moment.
 

Epix

Member
onemic said:
lol no DK does 5kdps with average gear. NO DK. now you're just making stats up. I would consider my gear to be average, and I only get around 2kdps. and tanking as well as the blood tree is getting buffs. so yes they're buffing certain dps aspects of the DK. They're nerfing certain DK abilities that I will admit were OP in pvp, but its mostly 100% buffs. If you want to talk about an OP class talk about ret pallys.

and xabora I just tried the unholy aura with DW spec, DPS now goes below 2k. This DW experiment seems to be a complete failure at the moment.
Perhaps I just need an education because I admit, I don't live and breath WoW. What are the big stats for a DPS DK? I assume STR and Crit and AP, but I may be wrong. If so then I wonder how Xabora routinely pulls in 5k+ dps with STR, Crit, and AP lower than myself when I'm usually around 2.5k dps?

I admit, the fault could lie with me but I feel I play my class well (Ret Pally lol) and he may have a higher grasp for DK theorycraft then I do for my class and his attack rotation might be more optimized but not 2x times as optimized. This leads me to conclude the OPness of DKs.

Without the "ROFLz you sux Ret Pally" comments could someone take a stab at explaining this for me. If nothing else maybe I'll play my class better.
 

Kweh

Member
Is there an addon that marks all the quest givers on the main map screen? I'm stuck on 98/100 on Storm Peaks and can't for the life of me find the remaining 2...
 

Xabora

Junior Member
onemic said:
and xabora I just tried the unholy aura with DW spec, DPS now goes below 2k. This DW experiment seems to be a complete failure at the moment.
What enchants do you have on your MH and OH?
How tight are you keeping your rotation?
Are you letting any runes sit? And if you are are you waiting for a KM Proc?
As for rime procs when it procs do you use the same skill twice or keep moving as if it was normal?
Are you in front of the mob or behind? (Stupid question yes but its worth it)
Food Buffs, are you using them?
Potions, elixirs? (Make sure you have these up also when you test.)
Are you saving gargoyle for when you have RotFC up? If so are you using an attack power boost trinket? Haste Potions in use too?
Also, what is your hit?


Raids generally give you a multiplier due (going from dummy to boss) to the buffs and scaling of your stats.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Epix said:
Perhaps I just need an education because I admit, I don't live and breath WoW. What are the big stats for a DPS DK? I assume STR and Crit and AP, but I may be wrong. If so then I wonder how Xabora routinely pulls in 5k+ dps with STR, Crit, and AP lower than myself when I'm usually around 2.5k dps?

I admit, the fault could lie with me but I feel I play my class well (Ret Pally lol) and he may have a higher grasp for DK theorycraft then I do for my class and his attack rotation might be more optimized but not 2x times as optimized. This leads me to conclude the OPness of DKs.

Without the "ROFLz you sux Ret Pally" comments could someone take a stab at explaining this for me. If nothing else maybe I'll play my class better.
DPS reports are meaningless in unless it's stated where. 5 man DPS and even 10 man DPS is nothing on 25 man DPS because in a 25 man raid of any kind of organization, you will have every possible buff, and deal a lot more damage than you would otherwise. Your damage on a training dummy, is something different.

I wish people would always post recount from the dummy if possible. The only times this isn't possible is with tanks, because reflective damage makes it impossible to gauge.

I personally cannot break about 1,250 DPS while tanking, even with another warrior in party with talented shout and rampage. It's baffling, as I can't figure what I'm doing wrong, and I'd hardly term myself undergeared (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Echo+Isles&n=Uramaki). There's something weird going on here, if you ask me. I have yet to see a player I've pugged with beat 2,400 DPS beyond a moonkin friend of mine, and that's in Stratholme when hurricaneing everything.
 

Onemic

Member
Epix said:
Perhaps I just need an education because I admit, I don't live and breath WoW. What are the big stats for a DPS DK? I assume STR and Crit and AP, but I may be wrong. If so then I wonder how Xabora routinely pulls in 5k+ dps with STR, Crit, and AP lower than myself when I'm usually around 2.5k dps?

I admit, the fault could lie with me but I feel I play my class well (Ret Pally lol) and he may have a higher grasp for DK theorycraft then I do for my class and his attack rotation might be more optimized but not 2x times as optimized. This leads me to conclude the OPness of DKs.

Without the "ROFLz you sux Ret Pally" comments could someone take a stab at explaining this for me. If nothing else maybe I'll play my class better.

Have you looked at his armory? It's almost a full set of T7 gear and the ones that aren't T7 are mostly from 25man raids, that's the reason. As a ret pally you have even less of a reason to even dare say DK's are OP with your classes OP as fuck bubble combo. There's actually hard evidence to prove ret pallys are OP, unlike with DK's where almost all(aside from a few abilities OP in pvp which are getting nerfed, as well as gargoyle) statements that say they're OP are from classes that are under 80, or classes that just don't know DK weaknesses because they didn't come with WoW's initial launch 4 years ago.

Not only that but the dps report you're seeing is from a raid, where buffs from other members come into play. on a dummy it would be much lower.
 

Onemic

Member
Xabora said:
What enchants do you have on your MH and OH?
How tight are you keeping your rotation?
Are you letting any runes sit? And if you are are you waiting for a KM Proc?
As for rime procs when it procs do you use the same skill twice or keep moving as if it was normal?
Are you in front of the mob or behind? (Stupid question yes but its worth it)
Food Buffs, are you using them?
Potions, elixirs? (Make sure you have these up also when you test.)
Are you saving gargoyle for when you have RotFC up? If so are you using an attack power boost trinket? Haste Potions in use too?
Also, what is your hit?


Raids generally give you a multiplier due (going from dummy to boss) to the buffs and scaling of your stats.

I'm testing the DPS on the 80 dummies in ebon hold, so the testing the environment was the exact same for both specs. My rotation and everything is correct and I've tried having a rune of the fallen crusader on one with a cinderglacier on the other, as well as two rune of the fallen crusaders on both wpns, with still the same outcome.

DW simply does much lower DPS than my titansteel destroyer. I'll probably test it again later when I've gotten most stuff from naxx and some epic 1h swords, but since killing machine is getting a serious nerf with this upcoming patch there will probably be no point in doing that anyway:lol
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
onemic said:
Have you looked at his armory? It's almost a full set of T7 gear and the ones that aren't T7 are mostly from 25man raids, that's the reason. As a ret pally you have even less of a reason to even dare say DK's are OP with your classes OP as fuck bubble combo. There's actually har evidence to prove ret pallys are OP, unlike with DK's where almost all(aside from a few abilities OP in pvp which are getting nerfed) statements that say they're OP are from classes that are under 80, or classes that just don't know DK weaknesses because they didn't come with WoW's initial launch 4 years ago.
I really wanna get my DK to 80, but god if I can't take 18 more levels of questing :lol
 

Epix

Member
onemic said:
Have you looked at his armory? It's almost a full set of T7 gear and the ones that aren't T7 are mostly from 25man raids, that's the reason. As a ret pally you have even less of a reason to even dare say DK's are OP with your classes OP as fuck bubble combo. There's actually hard evidence to prove ret pallys are OP, unlike with DK's where almost all(aside from a few abilities OP in pvp which are getting nerfed, as well as gargoyle) statements that say they're OP are from classes that are under 80, or classes that just don't know DK weaknesses because they didn't come with WoW's initial launch 4 years ago.

Not only that but the dps report you're seeing is from a raid, where buffs from other members come into play. on a dummy it would be much lower.
I have looked at his armory. He has 1 more T7 piece than I do, less STR, less AP, and much less crit%. I've done 25 man raids where my dps is 3k+. That still doesn't really explain his ability to out dps nearly everyone I've ever raided with by 75%.

PS: Since your ret pally butt hurting is entirely PvP related, I can ignore those parts of your posts altogether.
 

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
Whenever I test my DPS on the Target Dummy it's always higher when in Blood Presence than in Unholy.
 

Onemic

Member
Epix said:
I have looked at his armory. He has 1 more T7 piece than I do, less STR, less AP, and much less crit%. I've done 25 man raids where my dps is 3k+. That still doesn't really explain his ability to out dps nearly everyone I've ever raided with by 75%.

PS: Since your ret pally butt hurting is entirely PvP related, I can ignore those parts of your posts altogether.

can you please link your armory? and one thing to note, as a DW, he will have much lower ap and strength than you.(me as well since I'm not a DW Dk) Most DK's in general have lower ap than say warriors and pallys, as much of their damage is done by their abilities.
 

Won

Member
Epix said:
I have looked at his armory. He has 1 more T7 piece than I do, less STR, less AP, and much less crit%. I've done 25 man raids where my dps is 3k+. That still doesn't really explain his ability to out dps nearly everyone I've ever raided with by 75%.

PS: Since your ret pally butt hurting is entirely PvP related, I can ignore those parts of your posts altogether.

While there probably are some issues with DK dps, I think that is more a problem at your end. 3k dps in 25 man raids sound really low no matter what class.
 

Xabora

Junior Member
Epix said:
Perhaps I just need an education because I admit, I don't live and breath WoW. What are the big stats for a DPS DK? I assume STR and Crit and AP, but I may be wrong. If so then I wonder how Xabora routinely pulls in 5k+ dps with STR, Crit, and AP lower than myself when I'm usually around 2.5k dps?

I admit, the fault could lie with me but I feel I play my class well (Ret Pally lol) and he may have a higher grasp for DK theorycraft then I do for my class and his attack rotation might be more optimized but not 2x times as optimized. This leads me to conclude the OPness of DKs.

Without the "ROFLz you sux Ret Pally" comments could someone take a stab at explaining this for me. If nothing else maybe I'll play my class better.
Here's the entire combat log breakdown for a raid we had right after the holidays.
(My gear has vastly improved since then, more iLevel 213 items)

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/log/341374 - 10man raid

(My dps scales FAR better in 25man raids)
 

JoeFu

Banned
I need help... I want to start tanking again after being RET but I think I'm doing something wrong. Maybe the gear but here's my dude. I don't have any where near as much health as some other guys my level who are also tankadins. Where should I start farming for gear? Also wondering if my build sucks. I just changed back to prot for an instance and found that I love being a tank again.

Also, I know my cape sucks, one dropped in VH today, but some other dude got it :(
 

Epix

Member
onemic said:
can you please link your armory? and one thing to note, as a DW, he will have much lower ap and strength than you.(me as well since I'm not a DW Dk) Most DK's in general have lower ap than say warriors and pallys, as much of their damage is done by their abilities.


Won said:
While there probably are some issues with DK dps, I think that is more a problem at your end. 3k dps in 25 man raids sound really low no matter what class.

I admit the problem very well be on my end but like I said, I feel like I play my class pretty well and I'm not sure where I'm going to get 75% more DPS. I don't know much about the ins and outs of DKs so I assumed STR, AP, and Crit were the important stats. If this is not the case the he may be more powerful than I thought and I can't really compare his stats and mine.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Proudmoore&n=Alcapwnd
 

firex

Member
JoeFu said:
I need help... I want to start tanking again after being RET but I think I'm doing something wrong. Maybe the gear but here's my dude. I don't have any where near as much health as some other guys my level who are also tankadins. Where should I start farming for gear? Also wondering if my build sucks. I just changed back to prot for an instance and found that I love being a tank again.

Also, I know my cape sucks, one dropped in VH today, but some other dude got it :(
You don't exactly have a great prot set, but a lot of stuff you're missing can be fixed with some rep grinding. Just grind Argent Crusade and Wyrmrest up to revered and you will get a new cloak, pants, chest, and boots. You'll also get a good tank helm from an Argent Crusade quest line in Icecrown, and there's a good solo quest in Coldarra at 77+ (might require higher levels, I just know it requires flying) that gives tank bracers.

For boe blues, look for Tattered Castle Drape and Refined Ore Gloves. the gloves in particular probably won't sell for much despite being the best tank pally gloves pre-raiding.
 

JoeFu

Banned
Awesome, thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I know my gear sucks. Right now its just quest items because i wanted to be a tank again.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Epix said:
I admit the problem very well be on my end but like I said, I feel like I play my class pretty well and I'm not sure where I'm going to get 75% more DPS. I don't know much about the ins and outs of DKs so I assumed STR, AP, and Crit were the important stats. If this is not the case the he may be more powerful than I thought and I can't really compare his stats and mine.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Proudmoore&n=Alcapwnd
DPS inflation stats are stupid. If the boss is dying, you're doing fine. Numbers can only tell you so much about how youre are playing.
 

LAUGHTREY

Modesty becomes a woman
LAUGHTREY said:
Last time I asked I got some pretty good feedback here, So I'm gonna try again.

This is what I'm at now. I tanked Four Horsemen on the tank swap, MT'd Patchwerk, and OT'd Gluth. I'm thinking about getting rid of the parry & stam gems and just going straight for This or These when they come out. As a Warrior should I worry about Block/STR over Dodge/AGI and Parry? Or should I try to get every one as equal as possible?


This is my first time doing endgame raiding, I read up on Parry and found that it is much harder to stack then the other two, with it being as much as 10 more points of parry for 1% than Dodge. Stacking Str/Block in theory seems to make more sense to me.


Is there a really in depth tanking guide that anyone knows of? I'd like to know whats the absolute best to stack for my class.

Reposting this as a followup. I did Utgarde Pinnacle for about the 6th or 7th time, still no sword.

Besides the gems and other stuff I still haven't figured out, I'm trying to think if I should get T7 gloves or chest with badges. I got the chest I have on now from 25 H-Nax but it really lacks the shield block rating.


I read a little more about Str/Block Rating/Value etc and found that I think I'm going to try to stack that mostly unless there's a good reason why I shouldn't.


Actually, Considering block doesn't suffer from diminishing returns, you can stack all you want and it will never go down in value. It seems like the only smart choice for Warrior Tanks..
 

Flambe

Member
Angry Grimace said:
If the boss is dying, you're doing fine. Numbers can only tell you so much about how youre are playing.

Nothing wrong with wanting to improve yourself. In current content, it makes it easier on the healer when bosses die faster.

And naxx-level dps is probably going to be a good level below what Ulduar will require. Settling for mediocrity because current raids are easy isn't a fantastic plan, unless you aren't planning to do anything harder I suppose.
 

firex

Member
LAUGHTREY said:
Reposting this as a followup. I did Utgarde Pinnacle for about the 6th or 7th time, still no sword.

Besides the gems and other stuff I still haven't figured out, I'm trying to think if I should get T7 gloves or chest with badges. I got the chest I have on now from 25 H-Nax but it really lacks the shield block rating.


I read a little more about Str/Block Rating/Value etc and found that I think I'm going to try to stack that mostly unless there's a good reason why I shouldn't.


Actually, Considering block doesn't suffer from diminishing returns, you can stack all you want and it will never go down in value. It seems like the only smart choice for Warrior Tanks..
Gear-wise I am finding (mainly from EJ number crunching and a little personal experience, but I have 0 raid experience despite my gear being good enough to MT 25 mans) there's no reason not to take defense over dodge/parry rating as far as gems/enchanting goes, but like you say, block is the best rating. It's part of why warrior/pally tanks will be the best for mitigation.

The defense "diminishing returns" thing is kind of a misnomer in that it doesn't really have a stiff penalty. Basically there's just no way to stack enough defense and dodge/parry rating to hit absurd avoidance like it was possible for druids and even rogues to do in TBC. Defense is still a good rating, even when you are capped, just because it will still affect your block/parry/dodge and also your miss chance, even if miss/dodge/parry all have DRs.

Parry is in fact the worst rating in terms of point buy, which kind of hurts DKs (and is why they get STR converted to parry) but it's because of parry haste, really. So it's honestly pretty balanced, and it's not like you should pass up tank gear just because it has parry rating if it's an upgrade otherwise. Block rating is definitely the best, but it's a mitigation rating, not avoidance. Not that I don't still go for block rating anyway, since it's a titanic amount of mitigation and as a pally, I get a little more threat. obviously since you're a warrior you don't really get extra threat out of it, but yeah, it's way easier to stack block rating and get tons of block than it is to stack dodge/parry rating. And since it's mitigation, it has no DR.

for gems, I see no reason not to stack defense/stamina, str/defense, defense/expertise (if you aren't at the 6.5% soft cap), or str/stamina (though iirc this one isn't available yet from twilight opals) based upon what's best for that socket. That is, assuming you either want the socket bonus (I usually do for yellow/red sockets when they're +stamina or blue sockets when they're +defense or +a tank rating) or you just feel like you could use more of a rating. Otherwise there's no reason not to just put +24 stamina gems in a socket unless you will lose a meta (saying this for after 3.0.8 when our tempered titansteel gets a meta socket). Oh yeah, speaking of metas, I think EJ's theorycrafting says the best pure mitigation tank meta is Eternal Earthsiege (+21 defense rating +5% block value). The +32 stamina +2% armor value one is for bears/DKs. I know things are a little different for warrior tanks than pally tanks, because pallies value block value over pretty much anything else when it comes to ratings/values as it is a huge part of our threat in addition to mitigation. But I'd imagine it's at least worthwhile for big shield slams for you, too.
 

LAUGHTREY

Modesty becomes a woman
firex said:
Gear-wise I am finding (mainly from EJ number crunching and a little personal experience, but I have 0 raid experience despite my gear being good enough to MT 25 mans) there's no reason not to take defense over dodge/parry rating as far as gems/enchanting goes, but like you say, block is the best rating. It's part of why warrior/pally tanks will be the best for mitigation.

The defense "diminishing returns" thing is kind of a misnomer in that it doesn't really have a stiff penalty. Basically there's just no way to stack enough defense and dodge/parry rating to hit absurd avoidance like it was possible for druids and even rogues to do in TBC. Defense is still a good rating, even when you are capped, just because it will still affect your block/parry/dodge and also your miss chance, even if miss/dodge/parry all have DRs.

Parry is in fact the worst rating in terms of point buy, which kind of hurts DKs (and is why they get STR converted to parry) but it's because of parry haste, really. So it's honestly pretty balanced, and it's not like you should pass up tank gear just because it has parry rating if it's an upgrade otherwise. Block rating is definitely the best, but it's a mitigation rating, not avoidance. Not that I don't still go for block rating anyway, since it's a titanic amount of mitigation and as a pally, I get a little more threat. obviously since you're a warrior you don't really get extra threat out of it, but yeah, it's way easier to stack block rating and get tons of block than it is to stack dodge/parry rating. And since it's mitigation, it has no DR.

for gems, I see no reason not to stack defense/stamina, str/defense, defense/expertise (if you aren't at the 6.5% soft cap), or str/stamina (though iirc this one isn't available yet from twilight opals) based upon what's best for that socket. That is, assuming you either want the socket bonus (I usually do for yellow/red sockets when they're +stamina or blue sockets when they're +defense or +a tank rating) or you just feel like you could use more of a rating. Otherwise there's no reason not to just put +24 stamina gems in a socket unless you will lose a meta (saying this for after 3.0.8 when our tempered titansteel gets a meta socket). Oh yeah, speaking of metas, I think EJ's theorycrafting says the best pure mitigation tank meta is Eternal Earthsiege (+21 defense rating +5% block value). The +32 stamina +2% armor value one is for bears/DKs. I know things are a little different for warrior tanks than pally tanks, because pallies value block value over pretty much anything else when it comes to ratings/values as it is a huge part of our threat in addition to mitigation. But I'd imagine it's at least worthwhile for big shield slams for you, too.


So what youre saying is...stack block, stack health? What's with Expertise and hit anyway? I'm not missing bosses or having problems keeping threat on them. Should I not worry about it then?
 

firex

Member
stack defense, stack block, stack str/stamina. str tends to be "cheaper" on itemization budgets than block value, except on some pieces of gear (example: lavanthor's signet or whatever, heroic VH drop, gives you 880 str worth of block on use, but I don't know of any gems that give block value). defense is still worth enchanting/gemming even after you're capped, unless your total avoidance+block is somehow over 100% without shield block or anything. Just remember that the higher your avoidance+block, the less chance any enemy has to give you a normal hit.

expertise/hit are really there for extra threat generation. Expertise is mainly so you don't parry haste your target into instagibbing you, and it is useful. moreso for warriors I would assume, since you have tons of melee skills that can be parried, and most of the pally stuff is still reactive/can't be parried. Hit is good because it will not just boost your hit rate on melee, but it'll also boost your taunt hit since it's unified with spell hit. You don't need more than 9% tops, and that's really pushing it I would assume (until we get more raids added in later, anyway) but it's by no means a wasted rating on tank gear.

It's best to just look at it as hit/expertise are for extra threat, with expertise also providing some extra survivability by cutting down times the bosses will parry your attacks. The expertise cap on parry is theorized to be pretty high for most mobs (way beyond worth reaching as a tank), but for bosses like Patchwerk that already deal lots of melee damage, it's much lower. The 6.5% just pushes dodge off the table, which is fine since it would suck to have shield slam/any other big threat ability get dodged.

tl;dr version: if you need threat, gem for expertise and str, if you need survivability, gem defense and stamina, if you need a combination, gem str/defense or str/stamina.
 

yacobod

Banned
LAUGHTREY said:
Reposting this as a followup. I did Utgarde Pinnacle for about the 6th or 7th time, still no sword.

that boss is gay

i've ran heroic UP 12 times on my warrior w/out a sword drop, if you want a pair of leather gloves or mail belt tho, you would be in luck running with me
 

Interfectum

Member
Starting a new project once I get some cloth / caster heirloom items (+10% xp, etc) with my DK... gonna roll a mage. Any mages out there have any good leveling builds? From what I've read it's good to go fire from 1-~28 then switch to full frost, then 70-80 go arcane. Is this about right?
 

PatzCU

Member
Gah! Got my 3s rating to 1705 last night with Holy Pal/Unholy DK/Arcane Mage, and then we foolish banged our heads against the same PMR team all the way down to 1633. Let it be known that winning in Arenas is almost as much about how well you queue as how well you play.
 
yacobod said:
that boss is gay

i've ran heroic UP 12 times on my warrior w/out a sword drop, if you want a pair of leather gloves or mail belt tho, you would be in luck running with me

I got it the first time I finished H UP. I didn't even need it but I took it. I figured it'd be a good place to start if I wanted to DW tank on my DK.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
LAUGHTREY said:
Reposting this as a followup. I did Utgarde Pinnacle for about the 6th or 7th time, still no sword.
Got the sword on attempt No. 4. On the plus side, once you get a team that's good at H UP, it's extremely easy, and one of the more interesting ones. The gauntlet in particular is good fun when you know what to do and are geared enough to get away with a couple of mistakes. My GF keeps asking for "Grauf" to drop. Despite the fact he's unlikely to drop "Reins of Grauf."

As for that sword, it's just a bad turn on the RNG. It's not any rarer than any other drop in his table. There's always an item for tanks that turns into "that" item. Much like at least ONE of the Nobles cards is THAT card that the server gets convinced has a super low creation rate. Keep plugging away. On the plus side, Ymiron himself is the easiest Heroic endboss outside of Cyanigosa.

firex said:
tl;dr version: if you need threat, gem for expertise and str, if you need survivability, gem defense and stamina, if you need a combination, gem str/defense or str/stamina.
At this stage of Warrior tanking, no one really needs more threat, and from what I've seen, Pally and druid tanking. Pretty much. It's just too easy. The only time you ever get a wrinkle is when you miss an add while AoE tanking.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The big problem with PUGs these days isn't the lack of healers. It's the fact that Tanks and Healers are expected to be "geared" and "crit immune" but DPS players automatically assume they can just wander straight from Halls of Stone regular into Heroic Azjol-Nerub or Heroic Halls of Lightning. It just makes people less likely to bother with it (I know I pretty much don't PUG anymore) when you have players that are stuck doing the same rotation and shit-spec they were using in TBC, with the extra 10 talent points put into PvP talents thinking they are hot shit.
 

firex

Member
yeah, threat is easy to generate now, but it may eventually become more important to get. Plus there's still value to hit/expertise because you could wind up missing or having stuff deflected/parried on bosses. str is a threat/mitigation combo, since 2 str = 1 block value.

also, first time I ever ran H-UP I got the sword, and like 5th time I ran it, it dropped again lolz. meanwhile I've never seen the mail dps belt.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
firex said:
yeah, threat is easy to generate now, but it may eventually become more important to get. Plus there's still value to hit/expertise because you could wind up missing or having stuff deflected/parried on bosses. str is a threat/mitigation combo, since 2 str = 1 block value.

also, first time I ever ran H-UP I got the sword, and like 5th time I ran it, it dropped again lolz. meanwhile I've never seen the mail dps belt.
I got it on attempt No. 4. H UP is a pretty fun place; shorter than H-UK and much more satisfying.

It's not H-Oculus annoying. We were tired and rather annoyed with each other trying to down Eregos (as we coulnd't agree on a Drake Formation :lol). I can't agree with the idiocy of fighting bosses on vehicles. This is WoW, not Mario Kart.
 

Interfectum

Member
Angry Grimace said:
I got it on attempt No. 4. H UP is a pretty fun place; shorter than H-UK and much more satisfying.

It's not H-Oculus annoying. We were tired and rather annoyed with each other trying to down Eregos (as we coulnd't agree on a Drake Formation :lol). I can't agree with the idiocy of fighting bosses on vehicles. This is WoW, not Mario Kart.

Eh I don't mind Blizzard switching it up every once in awhile. Let them experiment.

Anyway, I think we are hitting critical mass with level 80 DKs. Went on two 25 man raids (pugs) last night and 7-8 of the players were DK DPS. You go into the LFG channel to look for other kinds of DPS and you see 10-20 DKs waiting for a group. :lol

I think it's time for people to grab their 70s and level up.
 

Flambe

Member
Interfectum said:
Starting a new project once I get some cloth / caster heirloom items (+10% xp, etc) with my DK... gonna roll a mage. Any mages out there have any good leveling builds? From what I've read it's good to go fire from 1-~28 then switch to full frost, then 70-80 go arcane. Is this about right?


Either fire or frost are decent for levelling (preferred frost, myself because it makes you pretty much untouchable).

At the moment, I wouldn't go arcane, ever, unless you intend to pvp a shit-ton because arcane barrage fucking owns. Even then I'm waiting for dual-spec.

At 80, for raids especially, a frostfire spec is the way to go right now because of how debuffs and whatnot are working. I got a 15k frostfire crit last night, was pretty nice. I believe a fire mage can possibly outdo frostfire spec with torment the weak, but only if there's a full-arcane mage castrating his own dps by casting slow every 15 seconds.

Of course by the time your mage reaches 80, this can all be different so /shrug. Fire or frost when leveling works fine.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZZAI0csfu0cdgcso

^ Here's a quick frost build for up to 60, mostly pretty basic stuff.
 

Interfectum

Member
Flambe said:
Either fire or frost are decent for levelling (preferred frost, myself because it makes you pretty much untouchable).

At the moment, I wouldn't go arcane, ever, unless you intend to pvp a shit-ton because arcane barrage fucking owns. Even then I'm waiting for dual-spec.

At 80, for raids especially, a frostfire spec is the way to go right now because of how debuffs and whatnot are working. I got a 15k frostfire crit last night, was pretty nice. I believe a fire mage can possibly outdo frostfire spec with torment the weak, but only if there's a full-arcane mage castrating his own dps by casting slow every 15 seconds.

Of course by the time your mage reaches 80, this can all be different so /shrug. Fire or frost when leveling works fine.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZZAI0csfu0cdgcso

^ Here's a quick frost build for up to 60, mostly pretty basic stuff.

Thanks for the info. Also, as frost (for leveling) I'll have a lot of AOE capabilities coupled with reduced mana usage right? I would like to reduce my 'drinking time' as much as possible for quicker leveling.
 
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