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[Kyoufu]

:lol

Seriously??

At least no outright nerfs so far. Spirit should be interesting if they do something cool with it. No clue what they mean by shatter combos for frost mages, since I get those as it is now.

It means they're going to give you a way of comboing a boss that is immune to freeze effects?

 

[cubicle47b]

GCD = Global Cooldown, SB = Shadow Bolt

 

[Kyoufu]

GCD?? SB?? Anyone want to point me in the right direction for the meanings of all these WoW acronyms?

GCD = Global Cooldown (most abilities trigger a 1.5 second cooldown globally to prevent insta spam).

 

[TomServo]

Haste lowers your GCD which can help with DoT uptime when cooldown conflicts occur, allows you to life tap or dark pact faster, and finishes your SB faster so hopefully there are fewer times where you have to choose between starting a SB and having a DoT drop off for 1.5 seconds or waiting a second and refreshing the DoT instead.

This, plus it's also the way crit and haste are calculated from ratings.

While 1% extra crit and 1% extra haste provide roughly the same benefit to dps, it takes twice as much crit rating as haste rating to provide that 1% benefit. Despite this, they appear to have the same value in item budgeting.

EDIT: As destro the only sacred place I've given to crit is in my meta. With just 18% base crit I see 40%-50% crit during raids, and with ~90% of my damage output being crittable (is that a word?) the extra 3% crit damage from the Chaotic Skyflare is better than the +SP / Int meta.

Also, you can get to a point where you've got too much haste. The GCD does have a hard cap (1s), so you can find that a high base haste rating with stacking haste buffs (Embrace of the Spider + Heroism / Bloodlust) will start to clip the GCD if spells with shorter cast times go under a 1s cast.

 

[Scum]

Cheers for the info, lads. And I call my myself a Warlock! :lol

 

[cubicle47b]

This, plus it's also the way crit and haste are calculated from ratings.

While 1% extra crit and 1% extra haste provide roughly the same benefit to dps, it takes twice as much crit rating as haste rating to provide that 1% benefit. Despite this, they appear to have the same value in item budgeting.

EDIT: As destro the only sacred place I've given to crit is in my meta. With just 18% base crit I see 40%-50% crit during raids, and with ~90% of my damage output being crittable (is that a word?) the extra 3% crit damage from the Chaotic Skyflare is better than the +SP / Int meta.

Also, you can get to a point where you've got too much haste. The GCD does have a hard cap (1s), so you can find that a high base haste rating with stacking haste buffs (Embrace of the Spider + Heroism / Bloodlust) will start to clip the GCD if spells with shorter cast times go under a 1s cast.

I'm a little under 2% under the raid buffed soft cap on my paladin (I have 19% haste from gear, 15% from talents). It's quite nice.

18% base crit including devastation? What other crit buffs are you getting? 10% improved scorch, 5% moonkin, 3% improved faerie fire, 3% heart of the crusader, 3% totem of wrath. If that all stacks that's pretty absurd.

 

[Lain]

Those DK changes make me sort of happy. I mean, after they tried to balance DW compared to 2h, you still had dw dks doing 7200dps on PW, which is silly. Maybe this time they have learned their lesson, who knows.
The hunter changes, if they end up going live, I like alot, No longer having to carry around a useless ammo bag? Fuck yeah!

Paladin changes, sort of useless to me (plus those changes are gonna be nerfed because of PvP anyways imho, especially the judgmenet of the just one). King as a base ability should have been done before wotlk. They did all those buffing and buffing before, just to turn around a couple months after and nerf people because their buffs were too much and at the same time they didn't make the right changes they should have done, just like they didn't last time (lowering garg output and not moving it up in the tree? what kind of moron thinks those stuff out? it should have been their first action to lower DW dps).

PS: cubicle47b, could I bother you to see your armory? I'm pretty interested in your choice of gear. Right now I'm at 513 haste rating and seeing what people with more uses would help me alot.

 

[border]

Haste lowers your GCD which can help with DoT uptime when cooldown conflicts occur, allows you to life tap or dark pact faster, and finishes your SB faster so hopefully there are fewer times where you have to choose between starting a SB and having a DoT drop off for 1.5 seconds or waiting a second and refreshing the DoT instead.

Well, my impression of stuff like Haste is that its advantages really only bear themselves out over long encounters. If I'm mostly just solo'ing and doing Heroics, I'm not sure if Haste/Spirit are the way to go.

 

[cubicle47b]

PS: cubicle47b, could I bother you to see your armory? I'm pretty interested in your choice of gear. Right now I'm at 513 haste rating and seeing what people with more uses would help me alot.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Drak'Tharon&n=Esmi

I have a few upgrades left which will put me .6% under the cap.
Thaddius 25 Helm - 44 -> 61 haste
KT 25 Shield - 28 -> 31
KT 25 Sword - 31 -> 48

My focus is basically crit now, though. WTB Soul of the Dead.

 

[Kyoufu]

Those DK changes make me sort of happy. I mean, after they tried to balance DW compared to 2h, you still had dw dks doing 7200dps on PW, which is silly. Maybe this time they have learned their lesson, who knows.
The hunter changes, if they end up going live, I like alot, No longer having to carry around a useless ammo bag? Fuck yeah!

Paladin changes, sort of useless to me (plus those changes are gonna be nerfed because of PvP anyways imho, especially the judgmenet of the just one). King as a base ability should have been done before wotlk. They did all those buffing and buffing before, just to turn around a couple months after and nerf people because their buffs were too much and at the same time they didn't make the right changes they should have done, just like they didn't last time (lowering garg output and not moving it up in the tree? what kind of moron thinks those stuff out? it should have been their first action to lower DW dps).

PS: cubicle47b, could I bother you to see your armory? I'm pretty interested in your choice of gear. Right now I'm at 513 haste rating and seeing what people with more uses would help me alot.

The thing I don't get is why is garg a 51 point talent now? It sucks arse! It was great before but now that the damage was lowered, I don't ever use it. Plus it costs too much RP.

edit: btw, won't you still need an ammo pouch for 10% auto-attack haste? I guess they could just merge that bonus with the ammo itself.

I just hope they improve Priest survability. As a shadow priest, I only have one tool (fear) to keep the opponent away, but it just gets trinketed out of anyway and I take it in the ass....

 

[Kletian]

The thing I don't get is why is garg a 51 point talent now? It sucks arse! It was great before but now that the damage was lowered, I don't ever use it. Plus it costs too much RP.

For awhile, Garg was considered a far superior ability to UB in relation to where they were in the tree. Which is why last patch they decreased it's uptime, (and decreased some damage right?)

And you two gripes about it in you post are even being addressed in the change anyway.

Not to mention, UB higher up the tree may make for a better tanking build, as I'm sure any Unholy tank would rather get UB and put the point that would go to 51point Garg into something in one of the other trees.

 

[Lain]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Drak'Tharon&n=Esmi

I have a few upgrades left which will put me .6% under the cap.
Thaddius 25 Helm - 44 -> 61 haste
KT 25 Shield - 28 -> 31
KT 25 Sword - 31 -> 48

My focus is basically crit now, though. WTB Soul of the Dead.

Thanks alot.
Speaking of Soul of the Dead, it dropped yesterday for my guild, but I didn't get it because I wasn't sure how much it would proc. Right now using the Badge one and the Forethought one, maybe I wrngly passed, but is the proc on that trinket good, or it's just the amazing crit that makes it worthwhile?

The thing I don't get is why is garg a 51 point talent now? It sucks arse! It was great before but now that the damage was lowered, I don't ever use it. Plus it costs too much RP.

In their planning it says Garg will get higher damage, so maybe it'll get back some of its power, which it should have for a 51 point talent.

 

[cubicle47b]

Thanks alot.
Speaking of Soul of the Dead, it dropped yesterday for my guild, but I didn't get it because I'm not use how much it would proc. Right now using the Badge one and the Forethought one, maybe I wrngly passed, but is the proc on that trinket good, or it's just the amazing crit that makes it worthwhile?

25% chance on crit with a 45s internal cooldown. It's somewhere between 75-100mp5 for a holy paladin with 2.07 passive crit attached. For mana regen it's BIS.

 

[Kyoufu]

What makes me really happy about the unholy tree change is Magic Suppression. I can get AMZ with less talent points than before. Although I think AMZ should've been the 51 point talent but with the duration it had before the nerf.

 

[firex]

Those DK changes make me sort of happy. I mean, after they tried to balance DW compared to 2h, you still had dw dks doing 7200dps on PW, which is silly. Maybe this time they have learned their lesson, who knows.
The hunter changes, if they end up going live, I like alot, No longer having to carry around a useless ammo bag? Fuck yeah!

Paladin changes, sort of useless to me (plus those changes are gonna be nerfed because of PvP anyways imho, especially the judgmenet of the just one). King as a base ability should have been done before wotlk. They did all those buffing and buffing before, just to turn around a couple months after and nerf people because their buffs were too much and at the same time they didn't make the right changes they should have done, just like they didn't last time (lowering garg output and not moving it up in the tree? what kind of moron thinks those stuff out? it should have been their first action to lower DW dps).

PS: cubicle47b, could I bother you to see your armory? I'm pretty interested in your choice of gear. Right now I'm at 513 haste rating and seeing what people with more uses would help me alot.

JotJ will never get nerfed for pvp because prot pallies suck at pvp. If anything I think some of these changes are specifically to help prot pallies have more of a role in pvp than distraction/WG and SotA vehicle pilot.

although I'm not sure what they're doing to spiritual attunement. I guess they're nerfing it now? Kind of sucks but I assume this means as a protadin I will have divine plea up almost constantly or I can at least refresh it or something.

 

[TomServo]

18% base crit including devastation? What other crit buffs are you getting? 10% improved scorch, 5% moonkin, 3% improved faerie fire, 3% heart of the crusader, 3% totem of wrath. If that all stacks that's pretty absurd.

I don't think the 5% from devestation is included on the armory character sheet, because it's exclusive to destruction spells. Backlash (3%) is included in the 18% because it's a generic 3% spell crit.

Another 5% from master demonologist (0/31/40 hybrid). So I suppose my true "unbuffed" crit is a little over 20%. Some extra crit due to 2pT7 bonus, though I'm not sure about uptime / proc rate. Probably results in an average "unbuffed" crit around 30%.

Not sure about how the raid buffs you mentioned stack, I'm just going from memory from recount / WWS and gut feel from watching big numbers flash on the screen. Point is, I prioritize crit behind haste and spirit, and I still see a solid amount of crits in a raid setting.

 

[Lain]

JotJ will never get nerfed for pvp because prot pallies suck at pvp. If anything I think some of these changes are specifically to help prot pallies have more of a role in pvp than distraction/WG and SotA vehicle pilot.

although I'm not sure what they're doing to spiritual attunement. I guess they're nerfing it now? Kind of sucks but I assume this means as a protadin I will have divine plea up almost constantly or I can at least refresh it or something.

I can be totally wrong, but people complain so much about stuns from pallies in PvP, that the moment they'll start to get stunned more, even if it ìs from a prot, cries will ensue. At least that's the feeling I get.

As for Spiritual Attunement, I was thinking maybe they'll nerf the return from base, and put it back up to the usual % with some modifiers into deep retri and prot talents? Since they want it nerfed only for Holy, not for prot and retri. They could also modify the glyph to only work if you have 1 of those deep talents.
Messing with spiritual attunement tho is something I don't like.

 

[Ashodin]

I can be totally wrong, but people complain so much about stuns from pallies in PvP, that the moment they'll start to get stunned more, even if it ìs from a prot, cries will ensue. At least that's the feeling I get.

As for Spiritual Attunement, I was thinking maybe they'll nerf the return from base, and put it back up to the usual % with some modifiers into deep retri and prot talents? Since they want it nerfed only for Holy, not for prot and retri. They could also modify the glyph to only work if you have 1 of those deep talents.
Messing with spiritual attunement tho is something I don't like.

No. The part that scares me the most about their post about Spiritual Attunement is that they said NOTHING about Ret being safe from the nerf. Which makes me mad, we get our mana back from dealing damage with Seal of Blood.

man, I just realized I could be able to stunlock people if imp. HoJ and JotJ stack to reduce HoJ to a 10 second cooldown.

edit: also I'm not sure why Maxrpg wants bladed armor. divine strength is better than a pure AP talent. maybe if you mean for t2 prot but I don't think you should have to go too deep into prot for a ret build unless you're going pure pvp and want imp. HoJ.

I want Bladed Armor AND Divine Strength. But that is a little too much to ask :lol

 

[Epix]

7800 dps on Thaddius last night:

 

[thatbox]

bloodboil meters post em if you got em

 

[Macattk15]

7800 dps on Thaddius last night:

Pretty good, beats all the Rets I've seen on my server lol.

That fight is pretty hacks for me as a TG Fury Warrior, our last run, I broke 10k DPS. A Normal Swing fills my rage bar basically .... not even a crit.

So I sit there and spam Heroic Strike the whole fight ... along with all my other abilities, 20k Bloodthirsts are awesome too.

 

[TomServo]

7800 dps on Thaddius last night:

http://i42.tinypic.com/1e5itl.jpg

You need to farm some gold

 

[Raiden]

You need to farm some gold

Why? As long as he is able to repair his gear? I have about the same amount, but nor the time or will to farm stupid gold.

 

[Xabora]

Just a pic of my earlier post.

Emblems of Conquest for T8 25man, and Valor for T8 10man.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14910422788&sid=1&pageNo=7#132

 

[TomServo]

Why? As long as he is able to repair his gear? I have about the same amount, but nor the time or will to farm stupid gold.

Easy killer, just messing around. Hence the smiley.

Still, it rains gold in Wrath. I do maybe 30 dailies a week, a few heroics, and pick up some tailoring / enchanting work when I'm sitting in Dal. I think I'm at around 6K gold. The only people I know who aren't in the same boat are the altaholics. People in my guild are either swimming in gold or have two, three, or more level 80s.

 

[Ashodin]

Emblems of Conquest for T8 25man, and Valor for T8 10man.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14910422788&sid=1&pageNo=7#132

Interesting! So that confirms that 10 man Ulduar will be giving out Valor tokens. Which means if you save up a fuckton of Valor from current 25 man naxx, you can have two t8 pieces once the items drop onto the vendors. Nice!

 

[Cipherr]

Interesting! So that confirms that 10 man Ulduar will be giving out Valor tokens. Which means if you save up a fuckton of Valor from current 25 man naxx, you can have two t8 pieces once the items drop onto the vendors. Nice!

Not sure thats worth it really, your valor will only buy the mini T8 seemingly that you would replace in a couple of weeks with the T8.5 from the 25 mans. I mean you could do it, but I think I would rather trade my valors for heroism then into gems and cut them and sellem rather that hold on to use them on gear Ill spend 700g enchanting and gemming only to replace it a few weeks post Ulduar anyway.

 

[Xabora]

Not sure thats worth it really, your valor will only buy the mini T8 seemingly that you would replace in a couple of weeks with the T8.5 from the 25 mans. I mean you could do it, but I think I would rather trade my valors for heroism then into gems and cut them and sellem rather that hold on to use them on gear Ill spend 700g enchanting and gemming only to replace it a few weeks post Ulduar anyway.

It all depends on the T8 Stat distro and set bonus.

 

[Ashodin]

It all depends on the T8 Stat distro and set bonus.

Exactly. And the pieces will allow you to pick up the other two pieces from 25 man and get the four piece faster.

 

[zam]

Not sure thats worth it really, your valor will only buy the mini T8 seemingly that you would replace in a couple of weeks with the T8.5 from the 25 mans. I mean you could do it, but I think I would rather trade my valors for heroism then into gems and cut them and sellem rather that hold on to use them on gear Ill spend 700g enchanting and gemming only to replace it a few weeks post Ulduar anyway.

Well it's all relative, some people dont want to take gear that you will replace in a couple weeks, others like any upgrade they can get, even if they may only use it one raid lockout.

And as Xabora said, it depends on the stats and set bonuses, I'm curious to see how much better 10-man t8 is compared to 25-man t7...

 

[firex]

I can be totally wrong, but people complain so much about stuns from pallies in PvP, that the moment they'll start to get stunned more, even if it ìs from a prot, cries will ensue. At least that's the feeling I get.

As for Spiritual Attunement, I was thinking maybe they'll nerf the return from base, and put it back up to the usual % with some modifiers into deep retri and prot talents? Since they want it nerfed only for Holy, not for prot and retri. They could also modify the glyph to only work if you have 1 of those deep talents.
Messing with spiritual attunement tho is something I don't like.

generally I think people complain about stuns because they're getting killed while stunned. I have personally never found myself running around destroying people while stunning them as a protadin. I mean maybe I just don't know how to pvp as prot (as ret it was pretty simple) so that could be part of it, but literally in my experience I'm basically good as a distraction, and as a vehicle pilot in WG/SotA. like literally, I make a good vehicle pilot because I bring nothing in face to face combat at 80 aside from mocking other melee dps if they're dumb enough to keep fighting me from the front.

 

[vumpler]

Well it's all relative, some people dont want to take gear that you will replace in a couple weeks, others like any upgrade they can get, even if they may only use it one raid lockout.

And as Xabora said, it depends on the stats and set bonuses, I'm curious to see how much better 10-man t8 is compared to 25-man t7...

I think I'm going with the route of save the valors, get the 2 piece of gimp T8, then save my DKP for the other tier-8 pieces in the 25man.

I'll save up valors starting now because I could care less for getting the T8 now. I can easily push top 5 DPS in our group now. If everyone catches and passes me then I'll think about it.

DKP Hog initiated.

 

[etiolate]

How are blood tanks going to keep aoe threat with the change to pestilence? They just changed pestilence +dmg talent to blood for aoe threat, but now remove it? I don't get that.

 

[Chris R]

I had TWO BSODs today on Vista 64bit and ATI cats.... Thinking of doing an entire reformat to see if that fixes it, but wtf

 

[firex]

oh yeah, I think it's pretty hilarious how replenishment went from 3 dps specs (2 of which being shadow priest/ret pally) to, it seems, being a talent for any dps class that uses mana now. I honestly halfway expect some kind of warrior talent called "your entire raid is creepy twilight fans" where you get replenishment off bleed effects, and rogues to give replenishment off poisons or something next.

 

[Cipherr]

oh yeah, I think it's pretty hilarious how replenishment went from 3 dps specs (2 of which being shadow priest/ret pally) to, it seems, being a talent for any dps class that uses mana now. I honestly halfway expect some kind of warrior talent called "your entire raid is creepy twilight fans" where you get replenishment off bleed effects, and rogues to give replenishment off poisons or something next.

Yeah they are putting it everywhere now. Shadow Priest in my guild didn't like that at all. He didn't like replenishment going to hunters let alone other cloth dps that he already feels he has to compete with for raid spots. They had better start being very careful with blanding shit up by just giving everyone what used to be certain classes major draw/group-benefit. Its starting to get a little ridiculous. I however was never a fan of the homogenization of the classes anyway. I always did and still feel its a bad idea.

 

[xabre]

I don't like how there's non-heroic and heroic versions of raid instances. This is fine for 5-man, but for raids it just completely devalues the content.

 

[firex]

stupid question time, I suppose: are elemental shamans good in pvp still? I know they were early in TBC, but I'm wondering if that still applies to WotLK or not. I'm pretty bored of my tankadin and don't have many slots I can upgrade without raiding, so my options seem to be either respec ret on my pally, or play an alt and that pretty much means my shaman or hunter since my DK bores me.

 

[Epix]

You need to farm some gold

I do farely well (250g per day or so) but I just finished putting together the nobles deck last week which cost me about 8k.

 

[teacupcopter]

I don't like how there's non-heroic and heroic versions of raid instances. This is fine for 5-man, but for raids it just completely devalues the content.

What are you, stuck in 6 months ago? This means so many people can actual enjoy raid content now, and thanks to the different gear, achievements, titles and more it devalues nothing.

Basically anyone who holds this opinion is an idiot, yourself included. What is wrong with making the game more accessible?

 

[Cipherr]

I don't like how there's non-heroic and heroic versions of raid instances. This is fine for 5-man, but for raids it just completely devalues the content.

Strongly disagree, cant possibly see how people justify this POV. The only way I could see this making sense is if you consider joe casual actually seeing KelThuzad in 10 man makes you less awesome for Seeing KelThuzad in 25 man. Basically other than E-Peen, how is this a bad thing? More paying customers seeing more of the content.

There are people that love this game as much as you do, are as hardcore about there toon as you are, but work 2 jobs and have 10 kids and just cant spare the time to commit to a 25 man guild. Theres nothing wrong with them seeing less challenging content. Its a good thing all around.

4 or 5 guilds per server seeing Naxx in the old days was the dumbest thing EVER. Completely stupid to have content only a super small percentage of the playerbase can see.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

*SLIP*

"WHOAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...."

*tumble tumble tumble...CRASH*

 

[ToyMachine228]

How are blood tanks going to keep aoe threat with the change to pestilence? They just changed pestilence +dmg talent to blood for aoe threat, but now remove it? I don't get that.

Death and Decay, put a couple of diseases up on one target, Pestilence them around, and then Blood Boil every chance you get. Or maybe you'll want to Blood Boil before you Pestilence now. Either way, it's not that big of a change aside from it not doing damage itself, just spreading diseases.

 

[vumpler]

Strongly disagree, cant possibly see how people justify this POV. The only way I could see this making sense is if you consider joe casual actually seeing KelThuzad in 10 man makes you less awesome for Seeing KelThuzad in 25 man. Basically other than E-Peen, how is this a bad thing? More paying customers seeing more of the content.

There are people that love this game as much as you do, are as hardcore about there toon as you are, but work 2 jobs and have 10 kids and just cant spare the time to commit to a 25 man guild. Theres nothing wrong with them seeing less challenging content. Its a good thing all around.

4 or 5 guilds per server seeing Naxx in the old days was the dumbest thing EVER. Completely stupid to have content only a super small percentage of the playerbase can see.

 

[J-Rzez]

Emblems of Conquest for T8 25man, and Valor for T8 10man.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14910422788&sid=1&pageNo=7#132

Hmm, so the heroism emblems will be useless then, they're not bumping them up like they did in TBC adding more gear in for them, just high number of "badges" needed? That kinda sucks if they do that. But guess we saw this coming with the different 2 emblem types already.

But as a DK tank main-spec, I'm not happy with that pest change. Not happy one bit. And they're planning on bringing up blood to DW dps by giving armor penetration to blood gorged while getting the garg down further in Unholy out of typical range of DW DKs?

 

[firex]

I'm hoping they either add some way to buy/trade emblems of heroism for valor or conquest, or they do add some new stuff using emblems of heroism. because personally I'd be ok with buying emblem of conquest gear at 5x the price using emblems of heroism.

 

[J-Rzez]

I'm hoping they either add some way to buy/trade emblems of heroism for valor or conquest, or they do add some new stuff using emblems of heroism. because personally I'd be ok with buying emblem of conquest gear at 5x the price using emblems of heroism.

Yeah, I agree. I want something to be able to use these old emblems on too.

 

[Oni Link 666]

I'm thinking they'll just add more T7 pieces for Emblems of Heroism like the pants, shoulders, and head piece. Maybe add a couple of more items like another trinket and weapon.

 

[vumpler]

I'm thinking they'll just add more T7 pieces for Emblems of Heroism like the pants, shoulders, and head piece. Maybe add a couple of more items like another trinket and weapon.

Wishful thinking

 

[Oni Link 666]

They're going to have to give people some kind of reason to keep doing heroics.