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World of Warcraft
- Thread starter Cerebral Palsy
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Flesh Into Gear
Member
Epix said:
Well, the changes aren't exactly final yet so hopefully we'll see some changes to this. There is really no reason to nerf ret pve dps at all. We're already near the bottom of the list as it is, and making Exorcism affect all targets does not make up for this, especially because that move was supposed to help our dps after Naxx.
Despite ret being near the bottom of the barrel pve dps wise and pretty poorly represented in arenas people are still calling for nerfs :/
Flesh Into Gear said:
I'm sad about the ret nerfs, I've been playing ret the past two weeks and its been awesome, finally got a decent set and do about 2.2k dps in heroics now. The Sword of Justice with a 27 str gem in it is so sexy, I didn't want to waste mats on an offspec for the titansteel destroyer, and I hate HOL so I didn't want the axe from there.
Oh well, been building a Holy set, I'm going to respec this week I think to try healing out.
Titan's Grip now reduces all your damage by 10%. So unlike the previous hit penalty they had on it, you can't really try to offset it by stacking +hit.
Getting killed by a Ret Paladin before Hammer of Justice even wears off was retarded. I'm glad they nerfed them, though it's a shame they couldn't just find a way to tone down the burst damage while letting them do sustained DPS over time.
Getting killed by a Ret Paladin before Hammer of Justice even wears off was retarded. I'm glad they nerfed them, though it's a shame they couldn't just find a way to tone down the burst damage while letting them do sustained DPS over time.
border said:
I think swim and dive. A flyer can simply fly fast over them and a regular can swim on the surface. Would be very nice to have a new engineering mount that can fly and turn into a submarine.
Also, 100 mounts might not be for everyone. I think the point of it is that it's out of reach for 99% of people.
I don't mind 100 mounts being harder than the first 50 -- but you shouldn't have to farm rare raid drops or buy the TCG shit or go to Blizzcon to get there.
I don't really feel like doing the math, but I'm sure someone more dedicated will come up with a guide to show whether or not you can get to 100 without the ultra-rare stuff.
I forgot that ground mounts are supposed to start "swimming" with this patch -- I wonder what the motorcycles is going to do? If it deploys a set of propellers, I will definitely buy one.
I don't really feel like doing the math, but I'm sure someone more dedicated will come up with a guide to show whether or not you can get to 100 without the ultra-rare stuff.
I forgot that ground mounts are supposed to start "swimming" with this patch -- I wonder what the motorcycles is going to do? If it deploys a set of propellers, I will definitely buy one.
eh, this sucks, BUT it's understandable... Titan's Grip as implemented was fairly ridiculous (in a totally fun absolutely loved it kind of way).border said:
Previously you had to make three choices:
1H+SH - use of choice for Prot raiders
1H DW - set your items up (where you get "Once in a while" instead of "Chance on Hit") and you can get good procs
2H - slightly higher damage and stats than DW but with only one proc
After Titan's Grip it was:
2H+SH - use of choice for Prot raiders
2H DW - lolwtfbbq better than 1H DW
Granted it's fury's 51 point talent, but at level 62 (or 63, around there) my damage went from around 190dps 1H DW to 340dps 2H dps. granted BC gear started kicking into effect in there as well.. but all the math I've ever read puts 2H DW ridiculously over 1H DW by somewhere around 35-50%, and that's AFTER hit percentages are adjusted. so even a 10% damage reduction you are still looking at around 35% increase over 1H DW in best case scenarios, and still a 21.5% dps increase in the worst case scenarios (roughly).
the blizzcon/TCG loot achievements have ALWAYS been achievements of strength and unrelated to in-game achievements. My guess is Blizzard will make it that you can get to 100 mounts without any of those.border said:
Flesh Into Gear
Member
border said:
Chances are you'll still die in 6 seconds. The nerf is like...a 7% dmg reduction overall, a large part of the nerf falling on the RV dot which pvp spec'd ret pallys don't even spec into and the added judgment crit from fanaticism which pvp pallys dont spec into. Plus we can use exorcism on targets other than undead now. PVP as a whole is people getting gibbed. For there to be change at all there has to be huge changes to the entire game, not glancing classes with the nerf bat here and there.
border said:
You know, there are a few more patches to come. If you want it now, go farm the rarest of drops, but you WILL be able to go this eventually with normal, easily attainable mounts.
Do you really care so much for a mount stable you wont use? In the end, I think we all agree that an ugly 310% mount is better than any hard to obtain drake. You don't even use ground mounts anymore..
I never understood why blizzard made the flying mounts considerably better than the ground only mounts. to me it makes more sense to make give SOME exclusive functionality to ground mounts vs. everyone just going right to a flying mount and never looking back. I mean I get why... ground mounts have to be usable in classic wow, which wasn't built for a 310% movement speed... still... they ought to have some incentive for people to alternate between the two, just to make the game more interesting.flsh said:
There are quite a few options, actually. Blizzard will probably never implement them, sadly.
Make them usable in all raids and dungeons (whether you actually need to is something else), and add a time attack achievement that forced you to use them if you want to succeed.
Give mounts another seat, default.
Give mounts options to temporary boosts to 280% with a cooldown, to make them a great option to people without the 280%.
I bet there are a lot more options.
Make them usable in all raids and dungeons (whether you actually need to is something else), and add a time attack achievement that forced you to use them if you want to succeed.
Give mounts another seat, default.
Give mounts options to temporary boosts to 280% with a cooldown, to make them a great option to people without the 280%.
I bet there are a lot more options.
They should let you put cannons on ground mounts so that you can blast your way through areas with lots of mobs (mobs killed with cannons would grant no loot or XP). Sounds stupid, but it'd be fun :lol
With flying banned in Dalaran and ground mounts being mostly obsolete, there's almost no chance to show off any of your rare mounts anymore. That's why the motorcycle seems like such a waste of money too.
The 310% Achievement mounts aren't really that interesting to me. Tthe Proto-Drakes are something like 8% faster than normal flying mounts, and you won't see much benefit from that unless you do a ton of flying as a miner/herbalist or whatever. I'd rather have the Dragonhawk than the Proto-Drake. Even more I'd love to get that Phoenix off of Kael'Thas, but I don't think that's gonna happen.
With flying banned in Dalaran and ground mounts being mostly obsolete, there's almost no chance to show off any of your rare mounts anymore. That's why the motorcycle seems like such a waste of money too.
At least I'm not a pet collector!
The 310% Achievement mounts aren't really that interesting to me. Tthe Proto-Drakes are something like 8% faster than normal flying mounts, and you won't see much benefit from that unless you do a ton of flying as a miner/herbalist or whatever. I'd rather have the Dragonhawk than the Proto-Drake. Even more I'd love to get that Phoenix off of Kael'Thas, but I don't think that's gonna happen.
Epix said:
Because its OP?
Oh wait, was that a rhetorical question?
Tamanon said:
Me too. Shadow got a nice buff. No longer will I be snared/stunned when dispersed and now my DoTs can crit. Awesome.
Not sure what to think of Disc changes though. The Flash Heal talent makes no sense and the same will be said for the Grace change. I don't know what Blizzard is thinking there.
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2009/february/fragmentsvalanyr.jpg
Legendary mace in 3.1, most likely Ulduar. Looks like it's a healing mace too
Legendary mace in 3.1, most likely Ulduar. Looks like it's a healing mace too
Buried under a lot of theorycraft is a huge buff to destruction warlocks. Conflag has essentially doubled in damage. Should crit for well over 15K. A boost to overall dps, but a huge boost to burst. In two seconds and some love from the RNG you could have 20K done to a target (~5K from immolate, 15K from conflag crit).
Affliction is getting hit with the nerf bat, and hard. That is unless there's undocumented changes regarding the raw damage each ability puts out. "Simplifiying" their rotation is removing a substantial number of things that built upon each other to push them over 7K dps on Patchwerk.
Expect to see a lot of haunt/ruin warlocks jump ship to conflag/backdraft if significant changes aren't made to 3.1 before it goes live.
Affliction is getting hit with the nerf bat, and hard. That is unless there's undocumented changes regarding the raw damage each ability puts out. "Simplifiying" their rotation is removing a substantial number of things that built upon each other to push them over 7K dps on Patchwerk.
Expect to see a lot of haunt/ruin warlocks jump ship to conflag/backdraft if significant changes aren't made to 3.1 before it goes live.
Where is the nerf, in your opinion? Affliction looks fine to me. 3% hit to all spells, +3% spell damage from Malediction, +30% Shadowbolt crit on a proc. Immolate won't get a damage bonus from Haunt/Shadow Embrace, but is it really that big of a deal? Consider how often Eradication will proc, and how often you'll end up with instant Shadowbolts (Nightfall + Glyphs) that now have like 40-50% crit chance.TomServo said:
I think it is a nice way to simplify things for people that want it simplified, but if you want to weave Immolate into your rotations you still can. The only thing you really lose is Siphon Life.....which sucks a little, but it's one less GCD so that gives you like half a Shadowbolt.
I think the bigger disappointment is that PVP survivability is still gonna be pretty sketchy at best.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Well those notes settle it. I think I'm done with this game.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
If they REALLY don't want DK's dual wielding, then why bother even allowing them to equip one handed weapons at all? DWing isn't even viable after this; Howling Blast is unreachable, Obliterate's damage is pathetic with a one hander, and now you can't DW and have the Ghoul at the same time if you want Howling Blast.
The stupid part is that DWing wasn't even really more powerful than 2H'ers. It just happened to be more goddamn fun.
The stupid part is that DWing wasn't even really more powerful than 2H'ers. It just happened to be more goddamn fun.
funkmastergeneral
Banned
Angry Grimace said:
What is so horrible about those patch notes that I'm missing?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
They changed a bunch of shit for no reason other than changing shit means that the programmers can send billable hours to their employer. I'm tired of them fucking changing shit all the time for no goddamn reason other than changing shit is fun. It's just tiresome the game can't play the same way without every player having to go in and revamp their trees as though the poopsockers won't just go in and find some exploit within 20 minutes anyways.funkmastergeneral said:
The solution for me is to not play anymore; I hadn't even read them yet when I decided that. Wall of text of lame changes means I've had enough. Combine that with them taking several months to put any new content out and I'll switch to non-online games.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
What does Warrior need changed? Other than the fact that it's boring.border said:
funkmastergeneral
Banned
Angry Grimace said:
How long have you been playing? Blizzard has been doing this everytime a new patch comes out since 2004. Class revamps were a regular occurance, and actually quite look forwarded to by people. I guarantee every single change has reasoning behind it, for class balance. The problem Blizz has right now is trying to balance an overpowered class (death knights, pallies) in arenas, BGs, and PVE content. It's very difficult and they'll never find a perfect balance, but these changes are done to try to do it.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I think you're partially misinterpreting why I'm getting fed up. It's just another instance of the designers doing something that pisses me off; namely, changing shit all the time for no good reason. The whole "lal we're balancing the classes" shit is tired because it never works. Cutting edge, spreadsheet EJ poopsockers are going to pretty much destroy any semblance of balance Blizzard puts in game within minutes.funkmastergeneral said:
It makes a game already predicated on doing repetitive, non-fun things like questing and farming even less so when I have to bother with completely redoing my class.
It doesn't seem that illogical to me that when something is already bordering on being a boring job (being there for guild when I don't want to) and you don't get much enjoyment out of it, you quit.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
My (rarely used anymore) main is a Warrior tank and my only problem with it is that rage is a pretty antiquated, boring mechanic and there's nothing fun about getting 10 mobs showing up you have no rage. Warriors are pretty viable tanks; both AoE and Single target wise.LAUGHTREY said:
Angry Grimace said:
I'm a Blood Tank so this didn't bother me as much, but yeah, they just totally destroyed DW DPS DK's. Switching up HB, changing up a couple abilities to proc only on MH swings, etc. Right now just by looking at it, as far as I remember, I don't think anything got destroyed that bad in years.
Blood builds should become more interesting for DPS though, with the perma-pet more accessible. And they buffed Scourge Strike? Really? That hit hard before.
Also, glad to see DK's blood plague doesn't remove hots anymore, it must of been killing those developers that resto druids had a hard counter for once in the game.
Destro Lock changes look tempting to start playing one, and the Rogue changes still look laughable at best. Wars getting a 10% nerf to TG is odd, I didn't think that needed attention or anything, but that's how Blizzard makes other specs/trees viable by instead of buffing them usually they nerf the fucking lights out of another spec/tree.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Hence another gripe; the patches never seem to make anything MORE fun, they just make certain builds less fun.J-Rzez said:
It costs 1000g to Dual Spec, in case nobody mentioned it yet. Not a bad price, but hefty enough that I'm not sure I'll bother getting it for my warlock. Definitely a must-have for the warrior, once you consider the costs of re-Glyphing everytime you re-Spec.
Too bad they don't design dungeons that need maps anymore. It was pretty easy to get way-the-fuck-lost in Marudon or Wailing Caverns, but it seems like everything since BC is just a long curvy hallyway.Tamanon said:
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The one place I remember getting lost a lot was when I first started playing and was trying to find the portal to get back into Dead Mines after a wipe :lolborder said:
The only way I could see DWing surviving in any form on DK's is if they somehow make the talents before Howling Blast somehow more attractive. If you're going to move Howling Blast to 51 point talent, it REALLY doesn't make sense to nerf it's actual damage, especially when 2H builds can just take Annihlation with few points in the frost tree.
no good reason != "we aren't releasing details to the players"Angry Grimace said:
I don't mean to sound condescending to you but every patch day there really is this sentiment "Yup, that about cancels my account" and to that I say Good. Cancel your account. Not because I'm being a dick or your being whiny, but because you are either going to play with the changes or cancel your account. or I suppose keep your account active and not play, but really.. what sense is that.
After 12 years though (going back to UO, then EQ, then FFXI, then COH, the Guild Wars, and finally WoW) it DOES get tiring hearing the same rhetoric on patch day. So much so that it's not even fun anymore to taunt with "Can I have your stuff?" Just quit. Login to the account management site, cancel your account, and move on.
BUT, don't kid yourself that any of this is being done for no good reason. Remember that this stuff is on PTR right now. AND because it's a major content release it could be up on PTR for a month or more. That's the last thing Blizzard needs is "We've added this nerf to PTR because doing this and this and this results in crazy damage that lets you down mobs in 4 seconds" only to find it spread like wildfire to the live servers and creating a problem for them. By keeping the reasons (and actual nerfs) quiet they can potentially bypass the actual exploits or imbalances from gaining even more visibility on the live servers before the PTR is published as a live update.
I JUST went back to Wailing Caverns for the first time since 12/2004... worst fucking instance in the game due in no small part to a level design that makes no sense and no ability to really map the fucking zone out. I went through it for the achievement.. thankfully it was by myself and not dealing with "Can I get a run through WC?" and thankfully...... well.... I never have to do it again. :\ Even on my next main I create it has no chance of happening.Angry Grimace said:
ToyMachine228
Member
The Death Knight talent trees definitely got some crazy reworking. Hoping we get a free respec. As far as tanking goes, all three trees may be as good as the next now, who knows. I'm Unholy right now, and I'm a tank, but I may go Frost after the patch goes live. We'll see. Still pretty far away. Was also considering making dual-wield my off-spec, but we'll have to see the state of dual-wield builds with these reworked trees.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
You being hopelessly addicted doesn't mean other people have the tolerance of Job for being fucked with nonstop. I was already pissed off that there's nothing to goddamn do as it is. It IS being done for no good reason because there's no reason to believe classes will be balanced after they finish it. Because they won't, never have been and can't be.borghe said:
border said:
- Sounds as if SL loses both its damage effect and its status as a shadow DoT, resulting in the loss you mentioned from Shadow Embrace and Haunt
- Shadow Embrace will no longer boost Shadow Bolt damage
- Immolate won't be worth keeping in the rotation due to Molten Core becoming a deep demo talent
The standard Haunt / Ruin build already had 3% hit for both shadow and destro schools, so there's no real buff to suppression (more of a nerf to destro, which will be forced to give up points or stack more +hit). Malediction already provided 3% spell damage, it's simply lost the buff it gave CoE. The new Eradication talent will be theorycrafted to hell and back, but it's essentially a swap of haste (old talent) for crit (new talent). The end result will probably depend on whether or not there's an internal cooldown in the new talent.
Maybe saying affliction was getting hit "hard" with the nerf bat was an overstatment. It's certainly not getting buffed, but it's not too bad at all. The gap between detruction and affliction will likely disappear, so in that sense it's a pretty big fall, but the good news it the gap looks to be disappearing due to destro buffs more than aff nerfs.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Well the last month or so have been pretty lame. I haven't done anything on my main in weeks. It was pretty fun when there was still stuff to do.Tamanon said:
Angry Grimace, can you honestly say that DK are NOT overpowered to hell right now?
If being overpowered is your idea of fun, drop WoW and start playing off line games with cheats. It's not fun when it's easy. They have their reason and if you honestly believe that DK don't need a huge overhaul you are either blind or lack any ability to play.
I could see that unholy was a seriously imbalanced tree just by fiddling with it before WotLK came out. I don't have a DK and I advised a friend to use unholy if he wants fast leveling. It was THAT obvious that this class is overpowered. Nerf it, and nerf it good, or change the way to play it. Blizzard is doing the best thing they can, they make DK not overpowered by changing the way you play.
Also, it's good titan's grip is nerfed, because warriors did too much damage with it. 1 talent point can't be so much extra dps. If it is, it's bad design. Arcane barrage was rightfully nerfed, deep freeze was nerfed to oblivion before 3 came live (it dealt damage in addition to stun, and it was big numbers). If one talent is worth so much, blizzard fucked up big. They admit it any second post they make, that it shouldn't be like that. Just say thanks that the modifiers didn't go down overall, because than it means blizzard has lost any hope with a certain class.
If being overpowered is your idea of fun, drop WoW and start playing off line games with cheats. It's not fun when it's easy. They have their reason and if you honestly believe that DK don't need a huge overhaul you are either blind or lack any ability to play.
I could see that unholy was a seriously imbalanced tree just by fiddling with it before WotLK came out. I don't have a DK and I advised a friend to use unholy if he wants fast leveling. It was THAT obvious that this class is overpowered. Nerf it, and nerf it good, or change the way to play it. Blizzard is doing the best thing they can, they make DK not overpowered by changing the way you play.
Also, it's good titan's grip is nerfed, because warriors did too much damage with it. 1 talent point can't be so much extra dps. If it is, it's bad design. Arcane barrage was rightfully nerfed, deep freeze was nerfed to oblivion before 3 came live (it dealt damage in addition to stun, and it was big numbers). If one talent is worth so much, blizzard fucked up big. They admit it any second post they make, that it shouldn't be like that. Just say thanks that the modifiers didn't go down overall, because than it means blizzard has lost any hope with a certain class.
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