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[borghe]

You being hopelessly addicted doesn't mean other people have the tolerance of Job for being fucked with nonstop. I was already pissed off that there's nothing to goddamn do as it is. It IS being done for no good reason because there's no reason to believe classes will be balanced after they finish it. Because they won't, never have been and can't be.

right, I MUST be the one who has the problem. My god you finally figured it out. Thanks for showing me the way. I just thought it was because I wasn't a bitchy drama queen complaining about every large and tiny change they made to the game while threatening to quit with each patch. But you're right... instead I just must be so delusional that I will eat shit on a spoon if Blizzard serves it. Here I thought I was really having fun all this time but finally someone has stepped in and shown me that what I really thought was fun was nothing but hard work and frustration. I don't know why I never saw it before!!!

Also, it's good titan's grip is nerfed, because warriors did too much damage with it. 1 talent point can't be so much extra dps.

umm.. technically it is/was 52 talent points, not one. It is the tier 11 talent in fury. I do agree that it was monstrously higher DPS than 1H DW as I pointed out, and even with this 10% reduction is still significantly higher than 1H DW, but let's not ignore the fact that at 52 points in fury, a warrior SHOULD be able to hang with the DPS crowd to a certain degree. They'll still be able to with this change, but it's going to be a lot tougher for them to hang near the top of a raid damage meter,

 

[flsh]

I have no problem with any class with a dps talent spec doing as much damage as any other. My problem is that it's done with a very simple rotation and no thought of what's next because of one talent. (Also why I really hate playing FFB)
It'll be doable, but it's simply too strong. The class should be strong even without it, if it wishes. The high level talents are supposed to be a cool idea with average contribution, if you ask me. They shouldn't be a make or break for the tree.

Also funny to note that frost mages are the ones getting mana replenishment when they are the least mana devouring of all the mage specs. Seems weird, but the talent still brings the dps. Can't wait to see pet changes, hopefully the WE will do a lot of damage to compensate for any extra dps missing if there is any missing.

 

[Angry Grimace]

right, I MUST be the one who has the problem. My god you finally figured it out. Thanks for showing me the way. I just thought it was because I wasn't a bitchy drama queen complaining about every large and tiny change they made to the game while threatening to quit with each patch. But you're right... instead I just must be so delusional that I will eat shit on a spoon if Blizzard serves it. Here I thought I was really having fun all this time but finally someone has stepped in and shown me that what I really thought was fun was nothing but hard work and frustration. I don't know why I never saw it before!!!

That was dumb and not at all what I was talking about. You're ranting about how much you hate that people get pissed off that classes get tinkered with, but that's not my inherent problem with the game. Going on a sarcastic diatribe doesn't even address the one point that you could refute; that all this "balancing" is ultimately irrelevant anyways because EJ is just going to find whatever class does the most damage and then TPTB will just nerf that again and completely revamp the trees.

Frankly, I don't see how contemplating not paying money for a game when it's not really all that fun anymore is dramatic...it is what it is. Saying, "oh you are complaining," isn't inaccurate. You're right I am. I fail to see how that un-legitimizes what I'm saying.

Ultimately, my point is that I have less fun playing this game than I used to, and this kind of thing doesn't help it. It just makes it more annoying, and it was always annoying. It's more of a matter of why do I want to play a game that just annoys me all the time?

 

[borghe]

I misread that then, and I apologize.

I agree with everyone that for many, once content runs out of an expansion/update that it is time to hang the game up for a little while. If you are bored, then cancel for a bit. Nothing wrong with that.. but ranting and threatening with canceling because of balancing changes.... Really, this stuff has been around since UO and before. You'd think most people would realize the TRUE joke of the nerf bat... and that is once it's done swinging at you it goes right on through to the person/class/race/whatever right behind you and continues along. Playing these games is and always has been about dealing with and handling the inherent change that comes along with playing a living game engine.

 

[traveler]

No C'Thun reskin confirmed.

 

[Angry Grimace]

No C'Thun reskin confirmed.

I guess Ursoc wasn't lying. :lol

 

[Angry Grimace]

I misread that then, and I apologize.

I agree with everyone that for many, once content runs out of an expansion/update that it is time to hang the game up for a little while. If you are bored, then cancel for a bit. Nothing wrong with that.. but ranting and threatening with canceling because of balancing changes.... Really, this stuff has been around since UO and before. You'd think most people would realize the TRUE joke of the nerf bat... and that is once it's done swinging at you it goes right on through to the person/class/race/whatever right behind you and continues along. Playing these games is and always has been about dealing with and handling the inherent change that comes along with playing a living game engine.

It's almost difficult for me to elucidate why it bothers me so much. It's not even the specific nerf bat coming to a class in particular; it's the fact that ultimately it doesn't work. It's a waste of effort because of what you're talking about; they'll just end up nerfing mages/warlocks/hunters/etc. later once enough people cry about it.

The fact is, protection warriors (my main) didn't even get nerfed.

Having read the notes, I understand WHY they nerfed DWing DK's, but it doesn't even appear they are raid-viable at this point; because DWing was dependant on now unattainable levels of non-weapon damage. Seems kind of silly since you're pretty much taking an already overplayed class and locking them into serious competition for weapons that already had too much competition.

 

[unifin]

Angry Grimace, can you honestly say that DK are NOT overpowered to hell right now?

If being overpowered is your idea of fun, drop WoW and start playing off line games with cheats. It's not fun when it's easy. They have their reason and if you honestly believe that DK don't need a huge overhaul you are either blind or lack any ability to play.
I could see that unholy was a seriously imbalanced tree just by fiddling with it before WotLK came out. I don't have a DK and I advised a friend to use unholy if he wants fast leveling. It was THAT obvious that this class is overpowered. Nerf it, and nerf it good, or change the way to play it. Blizzard is doing the best thing they can, they make DK not overpowered by changing the way you play.
.

Because if a tree is great for leveling, it must be OP at 80, amirite.

Try reading the patch notes. For every spec except DW, and the plague strike fix, death knights are getting some pretty nice buffs.

Outbreak now buffs SS's damage by 30% at max rank, black ice by 10%, base SS damage has been increased. Plague Strike not only hits much harder now, but the glyph is an extra 60% damage.

Master of Ghouls moved up the tree.

Base disease duration buffed for all specs to 15 seconds.

Frost strike gaining BotN damage multiplier, chilblains as a 50% snare, hungering cold at 31 points.

Blood gets passive 10% armor pen, death strike as an almost obliterate-replacer in pvp, and greater bonus damage coefficients for heart strike (with diseases up)

And that's not even all of it.

Moreover, bad death knights will get facerolled by good players of almost any class. On my enhancement shaman main (FROZEN POWER FTW), I could kill death knights by playing smart, avoiding melee range, healing, and cleansing diseases immediately to rob strikes of bonus damage.

Death knights are a very strong class, but they are also quite cooldown-oriented. Death gripping a mage before blink or having leap/gnaw on autocast or blowing strangulate as an opening move are all bad decisions made by inexperienced players.

Granted, death knights have a wider variety of powerful tools than almost every other class for dealing with a wide variety of situations, but none of them are "I win" buttons. Rune management and cooldown timing are all still essential.

Obviously, if a good death knight is facing a terrible player, that player is going to get facerolled, but lack of skill is hardly a good reason to yell "OMG NERF DKS OP."

Same thing goes for survival hunters.

Yes, their burst is really, really potent. However, it's also avoidable to a certain extent if you play smart.

Again, on my enhancement shaman I cleanse serpent string/viper sting, ground the traps I can and avoid others, shield/shamrage on approach before taking out my offhand weapon again, and save maelstrom weapon for big heals.

I save ES for Lick your wounds when killing pets, stormstrike outside windfury's 3-second rule, and pop feral spirit offensively as a finisher or defensively to buy myself some quick heals.

I have a mage friend who constantly complains about death knights - he also has total 3K HKs.

So, if you're going to try and justify nerfs...

1) be familiar with which aspect of the class is being nerfed and

2) L2P.

 

[Oni Link 666]

I'm kind of disappointed with the new Kirin'Tor ring. It's not much better than the one we have now and it's only level 213.

 

[Angry Grimace]

So, if you're going to try and justify nerfs...

1) be familiar with which aspect of the class is being nerfed and

2) L2P.

It's not like anyone was saying DK's are non-viable DPS or PvP wise. I just notice that DWing is completely unreasonable based on these notes, which sucks for a) anyone who geared that way prior to this patch, and b) the other half of DK's that now have to compete for the limited number of 2H weapon drops.

I went into DK always wanting to DW, so it kind of sucks, that just as I neared 80 on my second toon it's turned to completely nonviable (maybe). Nothing procs off your off hand anymore, everything about HB is nerfed into the ground and strike damage is UP! Why would anyone even consider DW now?

And here I imagined they would make the trees other than Unholy MORE attractive, not make Unholy even more awesome by default :lol.

 

[dave is ok]

I can't believe they nerfed Warlock PvP this badly.

We were already horrible in PvP

 

[borghe]

Nothing procs off your off hand anymore

nothing ever procced in your offhand except for "On occasion..." or whatever items. Chance on Hit items haven't procced for a long while.

 

[unifin]

It's not like anyone was saying DK's are non-viable DPS or PvP wise. I just notice that DWing is completely unreasonable based on these notes, which sucks for a) anyone who geared that way prior to this patch, and b) the other half of DK's that now have to compete for the limited number of 2H weapon drops.

I went into DK always wanting to DW, so it kind of sucks, that just as I neared 80 on my second toon it's turned to completely nonviable (maybe). Nothing procs off your off hand anymore, everything about HB is nerfed into the ground and strike damage is UP! Why would anyone even consider DW now?

And here I imagined they would make the trees other than Unholy MORE attractive, not make Unholy even more awesome by default :lol.

No, I completely understand your opinion - I was talking to Fish almost exclusively, who was criticizing your lamenting the gutting of DK DW with the justification that DKs are overpowered while leveling and in pvp.

 

[Angry Grimace]

nothing ever procced in your offhand except for "On occasion..." or whatever items. Chance on Hit items haven't procced for a long while.

Cinderglacier and FC proccced off both hands, which is why they were so good combined with DC and HB; but with virtually every high damage attack left being weapon strikes, it doesn't seem reasonable to DW anymore.

It seems relatively odd that Unholy appears so much better than Frost and Blood. It goes to the root of the problem I'm talking about. A lot of what these shakeups do take the DK back to square one, spec-crafting wise. I can't see how some of the buffs to Unholy make it live. The fact that Ebon Plaguebringer doesn't stack skews it even more since it's less helpful to have more than one Unholy DK in a raid.

 

[Angry Grimace]

No, I completely understand your opinion - I was talking to Fish almost exclusively, who was criticizing your lamenting the gutting of DK DW with the justification that DKs are overpowered while leveling and in pvp.

That's sorta what my problem is overall with seeing those notes; it's not so much that there's a nerf in the overall (not unreasonable) but it's that they just reshuffled it so that DK's have less options to take.

They're nerfing DW to the ground on the theory that they don't want it to be the be-all end all....but now Unholy 2H really looks like it IS. We'll have to test it out, but that's how I'm seeing it so far.

I don't believe that Titan's Grip nerf will make it in. Instead, I think you'll see a nerf coming to Deep Wounds.

 

[borghe]

Cinderglacier and FC proccced off both hands, which is why they were so good combined with DC and HB;

FWIW, reading up on these this sounds more like bringing these abilities further in balance with the game design than actual nerfs. The stuff that is supposed to actually proc off hand is few and far between and is all time based, not chance on hit based. This is how DWing has been for a while and it sounds like these two existed outside of that from what I'm reading. chance on hit procs are NOT supposed to proc off hand which it looks like what these were doing.

I don't believe that Titan's Grip nerf will make it in. Instead, I think you'll see a nerf coming to Deep Wounds.

I would love to believe that (about TG). I love the fact that Fury warriors can currently hover near the top of damage charts. And while I am no authority to say TG is TOO powerful, I can tell you that I never run out of rage while soloing (something that didn't happen DWing before I got TG) and that my DPS went up to insane levels due to both damage and crit chances being applied to that raw damage. Am I OP? I don't know.... but as someone who has sacrificed all Prot talents, all +Def/Dodge/Parry equipment, etc. I sure take comfort in knowing that I am a competitive DPS class. Would hate to see that change, but then I also know I would hate to see another class able to full on tank heroics (yes I hate pallys for this reason, but who doesn't hate pallys)

 

[unifin]

nothing ever procced in your offhand except for "On occasion..." or whatever items. Chance on Hit items haven't procced for a long while.

It was necrosis that he's talking about. 20% of autoattack damage as shadow damage now applies to mainhand only.

 

[Chris R]

People still going to do current 10/25s or is everyone going full on Uldar 24/7? I've done 10/25 VoAs but no other raids other than that (not in a raiding guild, and don't know if I have the 5+ hours for a Naxx raid), but I want to

 

[unifin]

The thing is, Blizzard specifically decided to implement DWing for DKs as a viable alternative to 2H for the sake of the viability that's being lost the way the notes look right now.

I think they just want to move DW away howling blast spam, proc-watching, and enhanced autoattack.

Considering that the single-rune strikes (except icy touch) are all getting buffed quite a bit, it remains to see how the relative impotency of 1H 2-rune strikes will be compared to really, really strong plague strike and better blood strike.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The thing is, Blizzard specifically decided to implement DWing for DKs as a viable alternative to 2H for the sake of the viability that's being lost the way the notes look right now.

I think they just want to move DW away howling blast spam, proc-watching, and enhanced autoattack.

Considering that the single-rune strikes (except icy touch) are all getting buffed quite a bit, it remains to see how the relative impotency of 1H 2-rune strikes will be compared to really, really strong plague strike and better blood strike.

We have to see how it plays out I guess, if I'm still on I'll check it out. It's possible, but unlikely, that being forced to take upper-tier frost talents could give it back some bite, but there's just so many different nerfs I tend to doubt you'll see any non-tanks speccing Frost.

 

[etiolate]

meh.. I am level 65 right now and on a good day of questing am getting a little over 100G. well, about 20-25G from questing and 75G from the AH. even the 1000G for cold weather flying doesn't scare me... I don't see the dual-spec cost (if in fact that's what it will be) as a big deal. Shit like Epic flying and choppers? Now THOSE are big fucking deals.

Dual Spec should nto cost a dmaned thing. THere is no reason for it to cost. Players have already invested tons of gold in respecs. You make gold now leveling because of quests, but who wants to keep questing at that rate at 80? On top of farming. The majority of players can not make 1k gold lickity split, but thats not even the main issue. THe point of dua-speccing is to make it a non-hassle. It is now still a hassle and potentially a bigger one. Just two specs doesn't even cover the little fixes to specs that occur over time and the other specs many classes still use beyong just two.

 

[cubicle47b]

Dual Spec should nto cost a dmaned thing. THere is no reason for it to cost. Players have already invested tons of gold in respecs. You make gold now leveling because of quests, but who wants to keep questing at that rate at 80? On top of farming. The majority of players can not make 1k gold lickity split, but thats not even the main issue. THe point of dua-speccing is to make it a non-hassle. It is now still a hassle and potentially a bigger one. Just two specs doesn't even cover the little fixes to specs that occur over time and the other specs many classes still use beyong just two.

It's a lot of hassle up front for very little later on. I'll happily pay 1K gold for 2 specs that I can switch between whenever I'm in a capital city for free without having to spend time allocating talent points, spending money on glyphs (which I never do anyway), changing hotkeys around, etc. Would it be better if it was free, you didn't need a lexicon of power, and there were 3 talent stables (or w/e)? Of course, but Blizzard wants you to work for what you get otherwise riding skill would be cheap.

 

[border]

The cost of Dual Spec is really a drop in the bucket, particularly when compared to the money-sinks in the previous endgame states (epic mounts and such). Unless you're desperately trying to speed-level a profession or gear out a new 80, there's really no reason for you to have less than 1000g on you at any given time.

 

[Kyoufu]

I will gladly pay 1000 gold for dual-spec. Considering I'll be alternating between Discipline/Shadow like I alternate underwear.

1000 gold is not hard to farm either. I just PL'd my JCing and Tailoring AND bought my epic flyer training, and now nearing 1000 gold again, its really easy.

 

[border]

You don't have to get 1000g "lickety split" anyway. You have from today until the patch goes live. Assuming that 3.1 launches in 2 weeks (not all likely), that'd be 14 days. That's like 6 daily quests per day (6 quests x 14 days x 13g per quest = 1092g).....and there are some dailies in Icecrown that literally take less than 5 minutes to complete.

If 3.1 launches in 4 weeks, it's 3 dailies per day.

 

[PatzCU]

People still going to do current 10/25s or is everyone going full on Uldar 24/7? I've done 10/25 VoAs but no other raids other than that (not in a raiding guild, and don't know if I have the 5+ hours for a Naxx raid), but I want to

People will always be doing all 10/25man content from WotLK. People were still running Karazhan right up until the release date of WotLK.

 

[Lain]

I have enough money on my chars to get dual spec on everyone of them, but I think 1k is a bit too much.
It is there just to be a money sink and not for a really good gameplay reason, making the cost more like a boring annoyance, which is the opposite of what a game should have, at least imho.
Truth be told, I was expecting the skill to cost 100ish golds to learn, not 1k.
But maybe they'll lower it (or up it) when the patch goes live.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

People will always be doing all 10/25man content from WotLK. People were still running Karazhan right up until the release date of WotLK.

Because the badges were useful.

And dual spec not being available while leveling is worse than it costing 1k.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

Anyone else getting a Bioshock vibe from the Ulduar screens?

 

[border]

It is there just to be a money sink and not for a really good gameplay reason, making the cost more like a boring annoyance, which is the opposite of what a game should have, at least imho.

You can kinda say the same thing about anything in the game that costs money though. Why should I pay for spells, respecs, riding skills, mounts, food, drinks, etc? None of it "has" to cost money.....none of it has any gameplay purpose.

 

[VaLiancY]

Holy shit. The new Tier 8 gear looks awesome. :lol

 

[Angry Grimace]

Holy shit. The new Tier 8 gear looks awesome. :lol

Unless you're a paladin :lol

 

[VaLiancY]

Unless you're a paladin :lol

[IMx]http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2009/february/paladin_tier8_male.jpg[/IMG]

It ain't Tier 2 but it looks better than everything since then. Just the helm symbol is a little odd. I get the moon for the druids and the shadowy eyes for the rogues but that got at "wtf". Also, Elves ears and eyebrows won't clip through the helm because there isn't any. :lol

Edit - I think Shamans took the medal for best Tier armor again.

Edit - Concept art makes stuff look so much better.

 

[traveler]

Yeah, so much for a badass "purge that shit with fire" look. :lol

(Although it is clear that is sort of what they were going for. That headpiece, like the rogue and lock ones, just looks too goofy though)

I think Hunters and Warriors won this time around. Shaman one isn't too shabby either. (Course their T7 is excellent imo.)

Edit: Ooh, I actually don't mind the look of the druid one. The headpiece,, though out there, meshes a bit better for some reason.

Anyone else getting a Bioshock vibe from the Ulduar screens?

I'm actually getting a bit more of a Hellboy 2 finale vibe. It doesn't help that you face off against a Golden Army. :lol

 

[cubicle47b]

The paladin T8 helm is one of the dumbest things I've seen in WoW. I always hide my helm anyway so w/e but it's sad that paladins haven't had a really cool set besides T2.

 

[Won]

Unless you're a paladin :lol

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2009/february/paladin_tier8_male.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Bwahahahaha!




My paladin is not happy with this. :(

 

[Xabora]

Yeah, so much for a badass "purge that shit with fire" look. :lol

WTF!
They look like Fondue heaters.

 

[Oni Link 666]

I think the Rogue set looks cool except for the helm. Whose idea is it to keep putting dead Yoda faces on Rogue helms anyway? That thing is almost as fugly as the S4 helm.

 

[Retro]

... That is all.

 

[Lain]

Unless you're a paladin :lol

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2009/february/paladin_tier8_male.jpg

This is depressing. T6 has been the only set I've liked look wise for paladins.
Then again, everything looks shitty on humans!

 

[funkmastergeneral]

This is depressing. T6 has been the only set I've liked look wise for paladins.
Then again, everything looks shitty on humans!

Never saw Tier 2 for pallies? That's my favorite set in the game.

 

[Lain]

I love the color scheme of paladin T2, not much the actual design.

 

[vumpler]

Holy shit. The new Tier 8 gear looks awesome. :lol

Rogues look sick!

Would love to see shammys ;(

 

[etiolate]

You don't have to get 1000g "lickety split" anyway. You have from today until the patch goes live. Assuming that 3.1 launches in 2 weeks (not all likely), that'd be 14 days. That's like 6 daily quests per day (6 quests x 14 days x 13g per quest = 1092g).....and there are some dailies in Icecrown that literally take less than 5 minutes to complete.

If 3.1 launches in 4 weeks, it's 3 dailies per day.

Farming it up for two 80s means no epic for my 80 that has all the gathering and gold professions. Meanwhile, I have two other 70s in the stables. One being a Druid, which needs about 3 respecs.

Why should you work for what other games give you for free? I just don't get this logic of grinding for everything.

Respecs should have been and should be free. This only helps not hurts the game. I can tell you it adds lots of replayability to a game like Guild Wars. The fact I can't easily test out builds or new playstyles in WoW without breaking the bank is one of the reasons the endgame is lacking. Right now the issue isn't not having stuff to spend gold on, the issue is having stuff to do.

 

[Tamanon]

The mage T8 helm looks bizarre.:lol

Sauron on a stick.

 

[Flesh Into Gear]

Well if they'd add the kilt back to the Pally Tier 8 like in the concept art it'd be badass.

As of the penis...what better why to describe the things I do with my mace to other players in PvP

 

[viewtifulsub]

On the Dual Spec cost issue; im currently leveling an alt druid on a new server. Having no lvl80 alts/mains to support this character financially pretty much means i dont have a chance of getting such ability until my 60/70's.
Though my balance druid can and should heal fine for WOW/BC/and most WOTLK instances, i would much prefer i had the option of dual speccing available at the time. Just throwing another gold sink into the game seems rather lazy on Blizzards behalf; i would've like to see players getting the ability through other methods.

But if thats the road Blizzard is going down, i'll just have to accept the situation.

 

[Kyoufu]

On the Dual Spec cost issue; im currently leveling an alt druid on a new server. Having no lvl80 alts/mains to support this character financially pretty much means i dont have a chance of getting such ability until my 60/70's.
Though my balance druid can and should heal fine for WOW/BC/and most WOTLK instances, i would much prefer i had the option of dual speccing available at the time. Just throwing another gold sink into the game seems rather lazy on Blizzards behalf; i would've like to see players getting the ability through other methods.

But if thats the road Blizzard is going down, i'll just have to accept the situation.

Dual-spec is level 80 only though.

 

[Retro]

Dual-spec is level 80 only though.

Not anymore.

"Dual specialization isn't something everyone needs. It's a perk we're adding into the game, and it's initially going to require an investment. If you can't afford dual specializations for 10 different characters, you might not actually need all 10 of your characters to be able to swap between two specializations on a whim.

With a single 5-second, out of combat cast, players level 40 or higher will instantly be able to swap between two different talent specializations, glyph sets, and action bar set-ups from virtually anywhere in the world.

That kind of convenience and versatility shouldn't be obtained with absolute triviality. "

(Source)

 

[Lain]

And no reagent anymore? Well, it makes the deal alot more sweet.