Support NeoGAF

[Xabora]

Haha, holy shit, the twin Valky'r fight is fucking based on Ikaruga. No fucking way.

Oh god, there will be calls to a 1000 nurfs to this fight because people cannot figure out a two color system. :lol


Love that its based on Ikaruga though.

 

[Flib]

For those who are blocked:

ENCOUNTER 4: THE VAL'KYR TWINS

Tirion Fordring: Only by working together will you defeat the final challenge. From the depths of Icecrown come two of the Scourge's most powerful lieutenants -- fierce val'kyr, winged harbingers of the Lich King!

Before I start the actually summary of this fight, I'll pose this question: Have you ever played the game Ikaruga? Yes? Okay. Because this fight is Ikaruga.

For those not in the know, I'll break it down.

Eydis Darkbane and Fjola Lightbane are each one color, Light or Dark. The Val'kyr will turn members of the raid Light or Dark as well.

Dark Essence -- You have the Dark Essence! You absorb Dark damage, deal less damage to Dark targets and deal bonus damage to Light targets. Absorbing Dark damage can cause a Surge of Speed!
Light Essence -- You have the Light Essence! You absorb Light damage, deal less damage to Light targets and deal bonus damage to Dark targets. Absorbing Light damage can cause a Surge of Speed!

Absorbing Dark or Light damage brings up your buff stack, and when it reaches 100 you proc:

Surge of Speed -- Increases move speed by 50% for 10 sec. Stacks. (0 yd, cast: 0 seconds

I'm unsure why this speed boost is necessary, but it must mean something. There are a ton of spells that talk about summoning Light or Dark "Bullets", which makes me think of Ikaruga even more.

The twins have a number of attacks and dual spells, like:

Twin's Pact -- The Twin's Pact heals for 10% of their total HP.
Power of the Twins -- The shared power of the Twins increases Physical damage dealt by 20% and allows the Twin to Dual Wield for 15 sec.
Val'kyr Quickness -- The Power of the Twins increases attack speed by 10% for 15 sec. Stacks.

There's more, too! A pair of void zones that each deal Dark or Light damage, on the fly switching of colors, a spell that allows damage to be shared between the sisters ... it seems like a crazy fight. Like Thaddius 2.0. You'll be attempting to DPS whatever Twin is your color opposite, though, is the heart of it. Oh, and don't kill your raid members of the opposite color.



With the Val'kyr twins defeated, everyone's ready to celebrate ... when the bottom drops out of the Coliseum and drops you the challengers into Naz'anak, the Forgotten Depths.

 

[cubicle47b]

All the fights sound pretty interesting.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Our little twice a week 10 man just started Ulduar. Finally got the mechanics for Hodir down pat (after like 4 attempts that the best was 60%), and on the "last attempt this week" looked set to down him...and then wiped at 21% when the Holy Paladin just up and died without any real reason :lol He's like "I got stuck!" :lol

Fight is fun as hell though.

 

[Chris R]

Sounds like Twin Emps, but instead of the bosses teleporting, the players switch colors every now and then. Speed boost is probably there to help switch to the other boss, because I bet they have to be a certain distance apart, just like TEs. Here is hoping there aren't any bugs on the ground for the dumb ass hunters to hit with their multishot :lol

 

[Weenerz]

Hunters that have multi-shot in their single target dps rotations are baddies.

 

[commish]

Sounds like Twin Emps, but instead of the bosses teleporting, the players switch colors every now and then. Speed boost is probably there to help switch to the other boss, because I bet they have to be a certain distance apart, just like TEs. Here is hoping there aren't any bugs on the ground for the dumb ass hunters to hit with their multishot :lol

Twin Emps... never again. Most frustrating fight in all of vanilla wow, outside of c'thun (idiots running into lasers drove me insane).

 

[Angry Grimace]

Hunters that have multi-shot in their single target dps rotations are baddies.

Most hunters are baddies

edit: but they make the best quotes, i.e. "WTF HEAL MY PET"

 

[firex]

ikaruga boss sounds awesome. I need 3.2 to be out already so I can gear up my shaman/paladin and do easy Uld/coliseum10 pugs. Because, sadly, GC's joke about Naxx25 pugs needing you to be geared from Naxx25 is true as fuck on my server.

 

[Flib]

75% of the bad hunters have moved onto DK's at this point, at least ally side on my server.

 

[Xabora]

75% of the bad hunters have moved onto DK's at this point, at least ally side on my server.

Ugh... >_<

 

[Flib]

There are good dk's as well obviously, but you can't deny the voluminous number of absolutely horrendous dk's.

 

[Angry Grimace]

75% of the bad hunters have moved onto DK's at this point, at least ally side on my server.

HEAL MY GHOUL WTF

:lol

I grouped with teh biggest n00b DK ever yesterday. Talked like a 10 year old, and kept doing stupid crap like need rolling Frozen Orbs (I don't think on purpose) and randomly greed rolling shit I was gonna D/E. His DPS was okay, like 2000, and he wasn't REALLY doing anything wrong, so I couldn't justify kicking him, but he was definitely the huntard type. i.e. passing on Breastplate of Undeath (obvious upgrade from his Savage Saronite), on the grounds that me telling him to "need if you need" meant greed roll it :lol Also, he yelled at me for not healing him from some kind of corpse explosion attack from teh first troll guy in Drak'tharon that 1 shot him and another guy.

 

[FLEABttn]

HEAL MY GHOUL WTF

Not healing the ghoul will cost your group DPS when the ghoul dies.

Having the DK heal with with death coils will cost your group DPS.

The DK may have been stupid, but I'm not seeing what exactly is wrong with that statement.

 

[Evlar]

Not healing the ghoul will cost your group DPS when the ghoul dies.

Having the DK heal with with death coils will cost your group DPS.

The DK may have been stupid, but I'm not seeing what exactly is wrong with that statement.

Presumably the ghoul isn't taking damage all by itself and nobody pays a durability tax when the ghoul dies. All pets are at the bottom of heal priority (except in the rare occasion they're tanking).

 

[Chris R]

Thing is though, if a dk ISNT hitting 2k dps with a few epics and blues at 80, they really suck.

 

[Cipherr]

Not healing the ghoul will cost your group DPS when the ghoul dies.

Having the DK heal with with death coils will cost your group DPS.

The DK may have been stupid, but I'm not seeing what exactly is wrong with that statement.

Its just an anti Hunter thing TBH. In all other MMO's pets are a joke, but in this game a pet is 1500 dps. And that matters a great deal in a boss fight, having a pet get healed is actually worth it, but healers hated like fuck healing a pet, even if they had the spare GCD and mana available, most of them didnt even have pet health visible on their grids.

It was a very bad time, eventually Blizzard gave hunters ways to keep their pet alive as long as you are paying attention without sacraficing hundreds of dps, and without having to ask a healing class for heals.

The expansion of AoE and chain-esque heals + Bloodthirsty + Mend pet no longer being channeled + the heal from the feral druid crit buff + 2 pieces of T5 if the situation is EXTREMELY over the top + 75% AoE damage avoidance talents for pets + whatever the hell those paladins use that heals every time you strike the bosses has pretty much come together to free us from the assholes who would have something to say negative if we were dpsing far below the hybrids yet wouldn't give a second thought to healing a pet.

I hope DK's have similar synergy with their pets survivability, would suck if the UH DK's are where we were back then.

 

[Tamanon]

Unholy DKs are just as able to heal their pets effectively as hunters are. Just using a global cool down to death coil and popping Ghoul Frenzy if need be. They just don't want to lose any precious dps.

Maybe you'd see less bitching about it if their ghoul was always named the same thing so a macro could be easily made.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Not healing the ghoul will cost your group DPS when the ghoul dies.

Having the DK heal with with death coils will cost your group DPS.

The DK may have been stupid, but I'm not seeing what exactly is wrong with that statement.

This is why everyone hates Death Knights. Because there's an actual aspect of the game outside of checking your own vanity meter.

Heal your own ghoul. The chance of the ghoul taking damage by itself while I don't have group/raid damage to deal with is like 0. In order to even take the ghoul you have to spec into Night of the Dead which gives 70% passive AoE avoidance to the ghoul. Your post is actually a pretty silly statement when taken in context of the actual game.

Besides the question isn't whether the pets are worth a heal in raids (they are), it's more about the type of PUGer that will capslock demand heals for the pet.

 

[commish]

I heal all pets. Really not hard as a priest.

 

[Weenerz]

Unholy DKs are just as able to heal their pets effectively as hunters are. Just using a global cool down to death coil and popping Ghoul Frenzy if need be. They just don't want to lose any precious dps.

Maybe you'd see less bitching about it if their ghoul was always named the same thing so a macro could be easily made.

Its a waste of runic power, do your job healer.

 

[Retro]

Most hunters are baddies

edit: but they make the best quotes, i.e. "WTF HEAL MY PET"

Think that's bad?

That's right; he asked a Prot pally to switch to Holy so his pet could tank Black Morass. :lol
Needless to say we laughed him out of the guild about a week later. He was notorious for saying stupid things like this, and acting out in General Chat (he threw an enormous hissy fit when some other pug hunter "Ninja'd" his Sonic Spear by fairly rolling against him).

 

[Angry Grimace]

Its a waste of runic power, do your job healer.

20 Runic Power is a waste of runic power when your pet will die otherwise?

I agree with healing pets in general when you don't have other targets that need the heal, but that's non-sensical.

 

[Scrow]

Not healing the ghoul will cost your group DPS when the ghoul dies.

Having the DK heal with with death coils will cost your group DPS.

The DK may have been stupid, but I'm not seeing what exactly is wrong with that statement.

a player is worth more dps than a pet. a healer's priority is to keep players alive before keeping a pet alive.

if everything is going smoothly and they've got the time/mana to heal a pet, then sure.

 

[Tamanon]

Its a waste of runic power, do your job healer.

I've got a DK, not a healer. And Mend Pet is a "waste" of mana too.

 

[Oni Link 666]

I just heard the audio clips on mmo-champion. The guy at the end doesn't sound exactly like Kil'Jaeden clips from Sunwell but, it might just be a new actor. Or someone else maybe?

 

[Flib]

Could be Mal'ganis

This pet talk is retarded, fyi. The only pet doing 1600 dps is a beastmaster hunter pet, and if you are rolling beastmaster in Ulduar you need to be benched. On fight like Hodir, focus on keeping the fucking raid alive and forget about the pet.

 

[Weenerz]

I just heard the audio clips on mmo-champion. The guy at the end doesn't sound exactly like Kil'Jaeden clips from Sunwell but, it might just be a new actor. Or someone else maybe?

Sounds like the text dialogue from the wrathgate event in undercity.

 

[firex]

I want this new patch to be out already. I would be having a wonderful time gearing up my shaman, but fuck if I am going to be bothered grinding quests I just did a month ago so I can have gold to burn on a couple boe epics to make people take me along in heroics/pug raids. And I'm pretty bored of my alts that could use some leveling until the mount changes are in, too.

 

[Flib]

Sounds like you need to find a decent guild, Firex

 

[firex]

I just don't really have a time commitment to any of the raiding guilds on my server, and I'm not going to leave it when my friends play there. I have no real stable schedule to raid, so I pretty much pug stuff if I have free time for it and feel like it. right now I'm just taking a break and letting alts get fully rested/letting myself get un-acquainted with the crappy quests I just did after dual spec on my paladin.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I just heard the audio clips on mmo-champion. The guy at the end doesn't sound exactly like Kil'Jaeden clips from Sunwell but, it might just be a new actor. Or someone else maybe?

It's Anub'arak isn't it?

 

[Oni Link 666]

No. At the very end (8:33) he says "You have failed me, Varimathras." and it has that same effect that Kil'Jaden has but it doesn't sound quite like the same guy. It's not the bug voice of Anub.

 

[Stuggernaut]

Think that's bad?

That's right; he asked a Prot pally to switch to Holy so his pet could tank Black Morass. :lol
Needless to say we laughed him out of the guild about a week later. He was notorious for saying stupid things like this, and acting out in General Chat (he threw an enormous hissy fit when some other pug hunter "Ninja'd" his Sonic Spear by fairly rolling against him).

Funny thing about this is BM is a joke at 80..hehe...you can do it without any major healing.

 

[Weenerz]

No. At the very end (8:33) he says "You have failed me, Varimathras." and it has that same effect that Kil'Jaden has but it doesn't sound quite like the same guy. It's not the bug voice of Anub.

I've read the soundfile for that quote is named after Sargeras.

 

[Alex]

Pets are, 99.9% of the time, immune to the damage or are quickly stitched back up with AoE, ProM bounces, etc.

Death Knight Ghouls specifically tend to be dead last priority even versus other pets due to the fact that they're instant cast, 30 second cooldowns that only amount to a couple hundred DPS and don't hinder any of your own abilities.

In any situation that matters, I don't give a shit if your Ghoul dies because I'm healing actual players, in any situation that doesn't matter I don't give a shit if your Ghoul dies because it'll be back up in 29 seconds at no effort to you.

The whole "HEAL MY PET" gig, to me, only really matters if you're a BM Hunter for some reason still. I used to always watch the BM Hunter's pets because it's agony if it kicks off. HotP luckily fixed most curve balls, however, in the context that our raiding Hunters were good at watching their own pets, I mean.

None of this is to say that I wouldn't toss a flash or a renew, etc, on a pet when I had time, I just truly don't put any priority into it, and neither does anyone else.

All this said: Ghoul isn't worth the RP to heal it. I'd just sac it, CE it, or let it die if it was going down

 

[firex]

serious question (as I am too lazy to read EJ and just curious because I never see this talent taken): is corpse explosion actually useful for DKs? It seems like one of those useful in theory, crappy in practice skills, even as a RP dump in something like an aoe/mobs being tanked close together situation.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

serious question (as I am too lazy to read EJ and just curious because I never see this talent taken): is corpse explosion actually useful for DKs? It seems like one of those useful in theory, crappy in practice skills, even as a RP dump in something like an aoe/mobs being tanked close together situation.

Nope. Every DK I've played with that has tried it says its poop.

I've read the soundfile for that quote is named after Sargeras.

I would have guessed Mal'Ganis. Since he still isn't dead somehow.



It would be pretty gnarly though, the only being I could think of that would be more powerful than the Lich King (I.E. The most logical step for an expansion 'main boss') would be Sargeras.



So far we've beaten Illidan < Kil'Jaeden (Weakened) but still < Lich King. Nothing on Azeroth is more powerful than the Lich King. KJ is scared of him so when we do take him down in 3.3 it will make us logically stronger than KJ even if it was a fair fight with him.

 

[gottalovetheglove]

It's definitely Sargeras who says that line. Got the patch-enUS-2.MPQ file open in Ladik's MPQ Editor and there's a Sargeras folder in \Sound\Creature with that exact line.

But who gives a fuck about that. ANUB'ARAK IS BACK, BITCHES.

Spoiler

insert bad 'tempest keep was merely a setback' joke

 

[Interfectum]

75% of the bad hunters have moved onto DK's at this point, at least ally side on my server.

I know and, as a Hunter, I love it. No longer do you join a group or BG and see 20 other hunters there... some of the time I'm the ONLY Hunter now. It's crazy... :lol

 

[TomServo]

Maybe it's the novelty of the new character, maybe I'm just sick of dps, or maybe I'm tired of having everything that goes wrong in raids blamed on the damage dealers, but I'm actually more excited about taking my priest from 70 to 80 healing instances than I am about taking my warlock through the new content in 3.2.

Hit 70, did enough questing that I got all of the instance quests for Nexus, bought my dual spec and went disc, and now I can't wait to heal. I'm kind of pissed tonight is a raid night because I'd rather heal Nexus than dps Ulduar.

 

[Flib]

Maybe it's the novelty of the new character, maybe I'm just sick of dps, or maybe I'm tired of having everything that goes wrong in raids blamed on the damage dealers, but I'm actually more excited about taking my priest from 70 to 80 healing instances than I am about taking my warlock through the new content in 3.2.

Hit 70, did enough questing that I got all of the instance quests for Nexus, bought my dual spec and went disc, and now I can't wait to heal. I'm kind of pissed tonight is a raid night because I'd rather heal Nexus than dps Ulduar.

I'm going through this with my 70 dk tank. I've always been dps, but tanked my first instance (Nexus) this weekend and a really had a blast. Can't wait to get more practice in soon. Having a fresh experience is just really nice, especially something more challenging than dps.

If I wasn't leading Ulduar tonight I'd go run it or UK again.

 

[Retro]

Funny thing about this is BM is a joke at 80..hehe...you can do it without any major healing.

Yeah, but that screenshot is from pre-Zul Aman when we were still doing Kara runs, so...

 

[Angry Grimace]

Pets are, 99.9% of the time, immune to the damage or are quickly stitched back up with AoE, ProM bounces, etc.

Death Knight Ghouls specifically tend to be dead last priority even versus other pets due to the fact that they're instant cast, 30 second cooldowns that only amount to a couple hundred DPS and don't hinder any of your own abilities.

In any situation that matters, I don't give a shit if your Ghoul dies because I'm healing actual players, in any situation that doesn't matter I don't give a shit if your Ghoul dies because it'll be back up in 29 seconds at no effort to you.

The whole "HEAL MY PET" gig, to me, only really matters if you're a BM Hunter for some reason still. I used to always watch the BM Hunter's pets because it's agony if it kicks off. HotP luckily fixed most curve balls, however, in the context that our raiding Hunters were good at watching their own pets, I mean.

None of this is to say that I wouldn't toss a flash or a renew, etc, on a pet when I had time, I just truly don't put any priority into it, and neither does anyone else.

All this said: Ghoul isn't worth the RP to heal it. I'd just sac it, CE it, or let it die if it was going down

The Permanent Ghoul is worth a lot of DPS, though. I think EJ said it was something like 500. Granted, it only takes like 30 sec. to summon another.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Maybe it's the novelty of the new character, maybe I'm just sick of dps, or maybe I'm tired of having everything that goes wrong in raids blamed on the damage dealers, but I'm actually more excited about taking my priest from 70 to 80 healing instances than I am about taking my warlock through the new content in 3.2.

Hit 70, did enough questing that I got all of the instance quests for Nexus, bought my dual spec and went disc, and now I can't wait to heal. I'm kind of pissed tonight is a raid night because I'd rather heal Nexus than dps Ulduar.

Healing is stressful, although if you fuck up there's always the "wife aggro" or "lag" excuses.

Actually, a druid bear friend of mine went through a few heroics together, and for some reason in Culling of Strat heroic, he just takes an absurd amount of damage from those packs in the beginning. Like more than I can even really heal without GHeal spam. It's weird as hell. Every other heroic he takes like nothing. The same mob types in the end gauntlet did basically nothing. It's just odd.

 

[Quake1028]

Thing is though, if a dk ISNT hitting 2k dps with a few epics and blues at 80, they really suck.

I ran H Nexus the other day with a DK who posted a whopping 931 DPS for the instance. If it wasn't for the Hutner and myself being above 2.4K each, we wouldn't have gotten close to finishing it.

 

[Macattk15]

Healing is stressful, although if you fuck up there's always the "wife aggro" or "lag" excuses.

Actually, a druid bear friend of mine went through a few heroics together, and for some reason in Culling of Strat heroic, he just takes an absurd amount of damage from those packs in the beginning. Like more than I can even really heal without GHeal spam. It's weird as hell. Every other heroic he takes like nothing. The same mob types in the end gauntlet did basically nothing. It's just odd.

Our priests don't even have greater heal on their bars anymore. Maybe this is just be cause we're in raids ... I don't know how they would heal 5 man heroics.

Are the mobs surrounding him and some of them hitting him in the back where he can't dodge or anything?

 

[Weenerz]

Druids get torn up from casters, and theres a chance they were surrounding him, so he isnt dodging.

 

[TomServo]

I'm going through this with my 70 dk tank. I've always been dps, but tanked my first instance (Nexus) this weekend and a really had a blast. Can't wait to get more practice in soon. Having a fresh experience is just really nice, especially something more challenging than dps.

Tanking is just a little too different for me to really enjoy. I'm damn-near hardwired to not pull aggro, reversing that would be odd. I hate having to range tank things in raids, watching my health bounce all over the place stresses me out worse than anything a boss throws out at the raid.

 

[firex]

Honestly the only difference between tanking and dps (at least with an actual tank class, and not gimmick raid fights where a mage or warlock has to range tank something for some retarded reason) is when you tank, you do less dps but you have some buff/stance up that makes it so all your dps abilities cause way more threat and everyone else's does less.