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[kinoki]

The new ToC boss is a clusterfuck. It isn't even hard, it just requires you to bring a lot of interrupters (we had 4 and that wasn't nearly enough).

Come on guys, a PvP boss again. Get original.

We're doing it tonight on 10-man. I was kind of looking forward to it, tbh. Please tell me it isn't worse than the 2nd boss. It can't be, right?

So far this is turning out to be the worst raid, evar!1 But maybe the instance will be more fun once you unlock the hard modes. Come to think of it, if the hard modes are as hard as the normal modes in Ulduar were at the time of release the inflation in gear (due to being 32 ilvls above normal Ulduar25 gear) will lead to such a nerf to Ulduar hardmodes it's going to be hard justificing that the drakes stay in place.

 

[cubicle47b]

Yeah, not a fan of the 3rd Trial of the Crusader boss but at least it's not quite as faceroll as the first 2. Initially, I only assigned CC / interrupts to the healers and a kill order and we got raped that first pull. After that I assigned 2 death knights, a prot warrior, and a prot paladin to different melee / caster mobs to shut them down and keep them out of the raid as much as possible and we only had one person die on the kill (on the pull because he's a fucking idiot).

 

[kinoki]

Yeah, not a fan of the 3rd Trial of the Crusader boss but at least it's not quite as faceroll as the first 2. Initially, I only assigned CC / interrupts to the healers and a kill order and we got raped that first pull. After that I assigned 2 death knights, a prot warrior, and a prot paladin to different melee / caster mobs to shut them down and keep them out of the raid as much as possible and we only had one person die on the kill (on the pull because he's a fucking idiot).

25-man or 10-man? Just to be prepared for tomorrow (EU ftw) how many bosses are there in the respective... arenas *cough*?

 

[cubicle47b]

25 man. There were 10 champions on 25 man. We had 3 healers (Pally, Priest, Druid) and 7 DPS (DK, Rogue, Hunter, Warlock, Enhance Shaman, Shadow Priest, and a Warrior). I'm doing the 10 man version tonight so I don't know about it. I heard 6 mobs but that's just what I heard.

 

[Macattk15]

We one shot the Faction Champions on 25m with only 2 deaths ... this is going in with the massive strat of "uh attack something, focus fire."

Think we killed the Shaman first, then Warrior, Rogue, DK, Hunter, Pally ... then I lost the order ... cause I was feared tons.

Just keep the Resto druid banished though.

 

[Flib]

After our usual one-shot of Beasts and Jarraxus in 25, we had a bunch of trouble with the Champions. Didn't even spend that much time fighting them, as people ended up getting into huge arguments about kill order and blaming people for messing up interrupts. We'll get the fight down tonight probably, but it was just a frustrating night. Also, i really hate the fight, I prefer my pve and pvp seperate.

 

[Quake1028]

Holy shit....the faction champions kicked our asses. Repeatedly. Without nerfs this is going to be the PuG killer for this place.

 

[Quake1028]

25 man. There were 10 champions on 25 man. We had 3 healers (Pally, Priest, Druid) and 7 DPS (DK, Rogue, Hunter, Warlock, Enhance Shaman, Shadow Priest, and a Warrior). I'm doing the 10 man version tonight so I don't know about it. I heard 6 mobs but that's just what I heard.

6 is correct. 2 healers and a ret pally that rapes face.

 

[speedpop]

You should take more Shaman with you and spam Wind Shear!

 

[Macattk15]

6 is correct. 2 healers and a ret pally that rapes face.

It's random then I guess cause we didn't have a Ret Pally ... but the Bladestorming Warrior did pose quite a problem. That is why we killed him 2nd.

 

[Flib]

The warrior was a pain. Twice one of our healers got death gripped into a whirlwind and died.

 

[DarkMage619]

6 is correct. 2 healers and a ret pally that rapes face.

It is so awesome that NPC Ret pallys can be awesome but player controlled ones need to be nerfed and nerfed and nerfed somemore. Thanks Blizzard!

The Dark One

 

[Tamanon]

It is so awesome that NPC Ret pallys can be awesome but player controlled ones need to be nerfed and nerfed and nerfed somemore. Thanks Blizzard!

The Dark One

"This coffee doesn't taste like a milkshake at all. It needs more milk and chocolate. And less gin."

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=19378789581&pageNo=2&sid=1#23

 

[TomServo]

It is so awesome that NPC Ret pallys can be awesome but player controlled ones need to be nerfed and nerfed and nerfed somemore. Thanks Blizzard!

No, all ret pallys (NPC or otherwise) should receive further, more far-reaching nerfs.

 

[Bisnic]

It is so awesome that NPC Ret pallys can be awesome but player controlled ones need to be nerfed and nerfed and nerfed somemore. Thanks Blizzard!

The Dark One

Why do you have to put "The Dark One" at the end of half your posts?

WWWHHHYYY?

 

[Angry Grimace]

It is so awesome that NPC Ret pallys can be awesome but player controlled ones need to be nerfed and nerfed and nerfed somemore. Thanks Blizzard!

The Dark One

Seal of Blood wasn't very interesting from a design point of view if you ask me.

The only thing I really don't like from a design point of view of the entire game is the fact that Blizzard can't seem to get PvP to mesh with PvE; such that anything with "burst" damage gets mega-nerfed, but it's a relatively core consensus that burst damage is more fun in PvP and PvE. There's just a certain sense of satisfaction in ripping out 10K+ crits.

 

[DarkMage619]

No, all ret pallys (NPC or otherwise) should receive further, more far-reaching nerfs.

I disagree sir. If you couldn't handle a pre-nerfed Ret pally you need to learn to play better. Ret had and STILL has plenty of weaknesses.

Why do you have to put "The Dark One" at the end of half your posts?

WWWHHHYYY?

Why did Picasso sign his paintings? You are getting an original work of art with every one of my posts. If it isn't signed 'The Dark One' you are dealing with an imitation.

The Dark One

 

[yacobod]

they are called retardin's for a reason, i think rets attract the lowest common denominator of the player base, usually worse than dks and hunters

 

[Angry Grimace]

Speaking of DKs, I'm not sure what raid DPS is looking like post 3.2? I'm assuming Blood is still king, but I'm itching to try Frost DW....if I had the gear. (Never once seen an Aledar's Battlestar drop in H ToC)

 

[DarkMage619]

Seal of Blood wasn't very interesting from a design point of view if you ask me.

The only thing I really don't like from a design point of view of the entire game is the fact that Blizzard can't seem to get PvP to mesh with PvE; such that anything with "burst" damage gets mega-nerfed, but it's a relatively core consensus that burst damage is more fun in PvP and PvE. There's just a certain sense of satisfaction in ripping out 10K+ crits.

I get destroyed by massive crits from casters all the time. I have tons of resilience. Burst is only bad when it comes from a pally. And SoB wasn't very interesting that is all Blizz's fault. For some reason they think that a talent in Seal of Command MUST be worse than an ablilty all pallys have SoV. Been like that for YEARS.

they are called retardin's for a reason, i think rets attract the lowest common denominator of the player base, usually worse than dks and hunters

Whatever dude. I don't know how long you've been playing but I've been ret since LAUNCH. I have NEVER seen a ret pally worse than a hunter EVER. And DKs are OPed so retarded or not they are going to own it up.

The Dark One

 

[KernelPanic]

they are called retardin's for a reason, i think rets attract the lowest common denominator of the player base, usually worse than dks and hunters

they are called retardin's for a reason, i think rets attract the lowest common denominator of the player base, usually worse than dks and hunters

To me DKs are still the biggest tards in WoW. Most of them do crap DPS, and can't tank to save their life so I'm generally weary of grouping with them. Never ever invite a DK with Darth in his name.

The pallys and hunters I group with seem pretty good.

Lately it's been DPS warriors (fury,arms) that cause me problems.

(This is strictly PuGs, my guild weeds out any bad apples quick).

 

[JoeFu]

Warriors piss me off the most. I'm a prot pally, I throw my shield and use my range taunt of guys who don't get hit by the shield. BUT Before the GCD, the warrior ww's everything and dies. I don't even care about getting aggro off them anymore.

 

[TomServo]

I disagree sir. If you couldn't handle a pre-nerfed Ret pally you need to learn to play better. Ret had and STILL has plenty of weaknesses.

They currently are and have always been a total faceroll class dependent on constant whining to get their way. Weaknesses? Maybe. Facerollers? Definately.

 

[DarkMage619]

They currently are and have always been a total faceroll class dependent on constant whining to get their way. Weaknesses? Maybe. Facerollers? Definately.

Ha! Faceroll my bum. For a class that has only one semi interrupt on a long cool down, no real protection against magic, no speed boost ablility or distance closer, and no silence or healing reducer, ret leaves PLENTY of ways for the opposition to win.

Whining to get their way? The only people whining were the ones who wanted ret to be like it was when the game first came out and total and complete easy honor kill. Ones who want ret to have no abilities AT ALL. Even if ret players were whining fat lot of good it did seeing how all we got were nerf after nerf.

WoW is an easy game for the most part every class can be facerolled. Heck hunters can have all their ablities macroed on a button to have them run through their entire shot rotation. You wouldn't even need to roll your face just press and button and sit back and relax.

The Dark One

 

[Evlar]

And now a note from casual-land... I went through two quarters of Naxx last night for the first time (Military and Construct in 10-man) and had a great time. It was a blast. I get the sense from reading a lot of WoW forums that players become jaded with existing content very quickly which is sometimes discouraging when you haven't yet had a chance to see it. That same content looks fantastic when viewed with fresh eyes.

 

[The Lamonster]

Wait...what's wrong with hunters?

 

[Flib]

Heck hunters can have all their ablities macroed on a button to have them run through their entire shot rotation. You wouldn't even need to roll your face just press and button and sit back and relax.

I mean, I'm not saying the class is hard to play, but this is only remotely true for BM and you'll be putting out even more horrendous dps than you usually would if you did this. Ret Pallies are much simpler than, say, Survival Hunters.

 

[TomServo]

Ha! Faceroll my bum. For a class that has only one semi interrupt on a long cool down, no real protection against magic, no speed boost ablility or distance closer, and no silence or healing reducer, ret leaves PLENTY of ways for the opposition to win.

Whining to get their way? The only people whining were the ones who wanted ret to be like it was when the game first came out and total and complete easy honor kill. Ones who want ret to have no abilities AT ALL. Even if ret players were whining fat lot of good it did seeing how all we got were nerf after nerf.

WoW is an easy game for the most part every class can be facerolled. Heck hunters can have all their ablities macroed on a button to have them run through their entire shot rotation. You wouldn't even need to roll your face just press and button and sit back and relax.

The Dark One

Trolling ret pallys is almost as easy as playing one.

 

[DarkMage619]

Trolling ret pallys is almost as easy as playing one.

The Dark One

 

[firex]

The truth of the matter is Blizzard did an awful job with designing the ret pally. It does get nice crits but they have yet to find a way to make any of their abilities line up in any sort of rotation. It's annoying, because they can't seem to figure it out. They should find a way to take consecration out of the "rotation" and give it another melee special.

 

[Angry Grimace]

To me DKs are still the biggest tards in WoW. Most of them do crap DPS, and can't tank to save their life so I'm generally weary of grouping with them. Never ever invite a DK with Darth in his name.

The pallys and hunters I group with seem pretty good.

Lately it's been DPS warriors (fury,arms) that cause me problems.

(This is strictly PuGs, my guild weeds out any bad apples quick).

I've never lost in DPS totals on my Death Knight to anyone other than rogues, other than gimmick fights. I'll freely admit that at least Blood DK is overpowered. At a certain level of ArP, it becomes pretty ridiculous. Heroic 5 man boss fights are the funniest, because they always last about the exact amount of time it takes to blow all your damage cooldowns.

 

[TomServo]

You're a good sport, Dark One. Kudos.

 

[KernelPanic]

And now a note from casual-land... I went through two quarters of Naxx last night for the first time (Military and Construct in 10-man) and had a great time. It was a blast. I get the sense from reading a lot of WoW forums that players become jaded with existing content very quickly which is sometimes discouraging when you haven't yet had a chance to see it. That same content looks fantastic when viewed with fresh eyes.

Yeah I did 10 man Naxx for the 1st time a few weeks ago. It was a smooth run with very few wipes.

The zone shows its age though, compare it to Ulduar and it's like night and day.

I did 25-man Naxx for the first time and I didn't like it as much. 15 more people to screw things up, go LD, AFK etc. It's just shocking to see bosses that you destroy on 10-man give you problems on 25-man because you have more people who can't pay attention.

I'm doing 25-man Ulduar this weekend and I'm dreading it. At this point I think 10-man raiding is much more fun.

I've never lost in DPS totals on my Death Knight to anyone other than rogues, other than gimmick fights. I'll freely admit that at least Blood DK is overpowered. At a certain level of ArP, it becomes pretty ridiculous. Heroic 5 man boss fights are the funniest, because they always last about the exact amount of time it takes to blow all your damage cooldowns.

Yeah I imagine Blood DKs do great DPS. I just don't run into them in PuGs. All DKs in my guild are alts so they're not well geared and rarely come out to raids (plus we're stacked on melee DPS).

Did the first seven bosses of Ulduar last night and my boomkin finished at #1 with a rogue close behind, and a destro lock #3.

Elemental shamans, rogues and ret pallies typically match or beat me but they did outgear me (I only have 3pc T8).

 

[Cipherr]

Heck hunters can have all their ablities macroed on a button to have them run through their entire shot rotation. You wouldn't even need to roll your face just press and button and sit back and relax.

You know this hasnt been true since 2008? DPS hunters use a full on rotation/priority system in their dps specs. Just like every other class in the game. Im surprised people havent picked up on it by now, and are still spouting the crap they heard in General chat way back in Burning Crusade.

Calling hunters a 1 button macro dps class in WoTLK is like complaining about Mages rolling ignites here in 2009. The shit hasn't been the case for over a year now, and your making yourself look stupid. Go read something and get up to date, then come back and try and look cool mate.

 

[VaLiancY]

Even BM is no longer about spamming Steadies anymore.

 

[Chris R]

Whatever dude. I don't know how long you've been playing but I've been ret since LAUNCH. I have NEVER seen a ret pally worse than a hunter EVER. And DKs are OPed so retarded or not they are going to own it up.

Pot, meet Kettle :lol

And that sig shit might get you into trouble. The last person to do it didn't last very long (golfham :lol )

 

[DarkMage619]

You know this hasnt been true since 2008? DPS hunters use a full on rotation/priority system in their dps specs. Just like every other class in the game. Im surprised people havent picked up on it by now, and are still spouting the crap they heard in General chat way back in Burning Crusade.

Calling hunters a 1 button macro dps class in WoTLK is like complaining about Mages rolling ignites here in 2009. The shit hasn't been the case for over a year now, and your making yourself look stupid. Go read something and get up to date, then come back and try and look cool mate.

I play a ret pally if you haven't read my previous comments. All info I get from other classes aside from a shammy are from other people. If you say hunters are super complicated now so be it. Doesn't have any impact on my class. And I have no need to look cool on the Internet you have an monoply on it already (

The Dark One

 

[Angry Grimace]

Blood DK is overpowered to the point that my 4pc. T7 Blood DK can put out 4.5K on Cyanigosa, 5K on the Black Knight with no real buffs to speak of. It's just overpowered in general. (I haven't raided on my DK since 3.2 dropped, so no raid numbers, although my gear has improved significantly due to Conquests.)

I'm sitting around wondering if Sigil of the Vengeful Heart is a damage buff over Awareness now. On a Hysteria, DS is already critting for 11000+.

 

[VaLiancY]

I'm going to clean out Naxx10/25 tonight then.

 

[Hero]

Blood DK is overpowered to the point that my 4pc. T7 Blood DK can put out 4.5K on Cyanigosa, 5K on the Black Knight with no real buffs to speak of. It's just overpowered in general. (I haven't raided on my DK since 3.2 dropped, so no raid numbers, although my gear has improved significantly due to Conquests.)

I'm sitting around wondering if Sigil of the Vengeful Heart is a damage buff over Awareness now. On a Hysteria, DS is already critting for 11000+.

For all of the initial WotLK content I was 2H Unholy since it did pretty good DPS and allowed me to PVP as well but I took a break and am just coming back. 2H Unholy seems pretty shitty for PVE DPS since they nerfed Scourge Strike I guess. Can you link your Blood talent build? I have 4 piece T7, Betrayer of Humanity, etc so I'm pretty geared.

 

[yacobod]

if you've been playing ret since launch i feel bad for you, you played a shit class for nearly 5 years, grats

 

[TomServo]

Blood DK is overpowered to the point that my 4pc. T7 Blood DK can put out 4.5K on Cyanigosa, 5K on the Black Knight with no real buffs to speak of. It's just overpowered in general. (I haven't raided on my DK since 3.2 dropped, so no raid numbers, although my gear has improved significantly due to Conquests.)

I haven't seen a DK on top of meters in Ulduar25 in a long, long time (if ever). Heroics? Meh, they're heroics.

 

[Angry Grimace]

For all of the initial WotLK content I was 2H Unholy since it did pretty good DPS and allowed me to PVP as well but I took a break and am just coming back. 2H Unholy seems pretty shitty for PVE DPS since they nerfed Scourge Strike I guess. Can you link your Blood talent build? I have 4 piece T7, Betrayer of Humanity, etc so I'm pretty geared.

Unholy is the worst tree now for virtually anything other than those wanting to press one button and do mediocre DPS (and if you really truly love the pet). The reason is Scourge Strike is now a DPS loss over just sub-speccing Frost for Annhilation to use Obliterate instead.

If you just came back from pre 3.1 you should be aware that Armor Pen went from shit to the best stat to stack other than strength. Blood scales really well with Armor Pen.

My spec is 51/0/20. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Echo+Isles&n=Eviluramaki&group=2 (Yes, I'm aware both of my dual specs are the same one, that was because I respecced after the 3.2 talent respec and did them backwards so my glyph sets were completely wrong.) I don't know what Elitist Jerks consensus is on the best, but there aren't many "optional" DPS talents in the Blood tree. There's about 50, with an extra point to spend on something like Imp. BP. As long as you only take talents that increase your DPS, you will probably end up with a largely identical spec to all other Blood DKs. Unholy subspec talents are pretty no brainer too.

 

[DarkMage619]

if you've been playing ret since launch i feel bad for you, you played a shit class for nearly 5 years, grats

Indeed yet people still cry and complain that they are too powerful. And don't feel bad for me I enjoy the versitility of the class and I like wacking things with pointy objects.

The Dark One

 

[VaLiancY]

I'm thinking about switching to Glyph of Dark Death from Glyph of Disease. Disease does help but I want my Death Coil damage back. :[

 

[Angry Grimace]

I haven't seen a DK on top of meters in Ulduar25 in a long, long time (if ever). Heroics? Meh, they're heroics.

I agree, but I was just speaking of the manner in which is scales without any other buffs to speak of (i.e. 5 stacks of Sunder and might/kings.), given that for the most part, most other players I'm playing with are outgearing my little guy. I was using the figure as a slightly better dummy test, really.

I'm certainly not the impression they were beating Rogues, Mages or Warlocks (or Ferals) myself, but it's honestly impossible to say what the "best" DPS is because it's impossible to have gear and skill equalized.

 

[Xabora]

Holy shit....the faction champions kicked our asses. Repeatedly. Without nerfs this is going to be the PuG killer for this place.

Fight Start

Focus Shaman (Healer) -> Druid -> Rogue -> Shadow Priest -> Mage -> (If Shaman (Melee)) -> Hunter (Ignore Pet) -> Death Knight -> Warrior -> (Kill Pet too now) Paladin

Interrupt and Silence as needed.

 

[TomServo]

Indeed yet people still cry and complain that they are too powerful. And don't feel bad for me I enjoy the versitility of the class and I like wacking things with pointy objects.

Personally the only thing I don't like is that (as a clothie) if they get a jump on you it's nearly impossible to recover. I get all excited about mining a titanium node and all of the sudden I'm getting rolled.

Even rogues don't seem to have that ability. If I can survive that opening barrage from a rogue they're pretty much dead or vanished.

Granted if you never fall behind on a ret pally (or even see it coming) they're not too much of a threat. Still hate the bubble / LoH bits. How many times do I have to kill you? Yes, I know they're on long CD's.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm thinking about switching to Glyph of Dark Death from Glyph of Disease. Disease does help but I want my Death Coil damage back. :[

The problem with GoDis is that you have to drop a Heart Strike in order to cast something that does 0 DPS, and you also have to factor in the lost DPS from DC. Thus, the DPS gain from not having to use a PS and IT every two runesets would have to be greater than the PS, the IT and the DC. With Vengeful Heart, it's not a gain from what I can tell, but YMMV depending on your playstyle.

 

[DarkMage619]

Personally the only thing I don't like is that (as a clothie) if they get a jump on you it's nearly impossible to recover. I get all excited about mining a titanium node and all of the sudden I'm getting rolled.

Even rogues don't seem to have that ability. If I can survive that opening barrage from a rogue they're pretty much dead or vanished.

Granted if you never fall behind on a ret pally (or even see it coming) they're not too much of a threat. Still hate the bubble / LoH bits. How many times do I have to kill you? Yes, I know they're on long CD's.

The bubble and the LoH are lazy man design concepts. Instead of giving pallys some real counters to things that could happen to them just have some 'oh crap' buttons and throw them on long cooldowns. People complain about the bubble and the LoH but if those things are on cooldown pallys have nothing. Just survive those and you're home free. And what does it say about a class that you can kill 2 or 3 times before he can kill you once.

The Dark One