Support NeoGAF

[Son of Godzilla]

Pets haven't attacked a CC'd target while Defensive unless ordered to since pre-3.0, but please keep claiming otherwise and informing us of how much of a sin that would be.

 

[Johnlenham]

If you really think defensive means it won't attack until YOU attack, and not what it actually does which is attack whatever attacks you first OR whatever you attack first and then just sticks to that target like glue unless told otherwise.


So you start the faction champs fight and you get hit by the warlock which is going to be CC'd the whole fight and your ghoul goes immediatly for it since you're still running in and breaks all the CC on it. Or in the middle of faction champions the target you and your ghoul is on dies and something that is being CC'd hits you between CCs and your ghoul goes straight for it, and since you don't even pay attention it breaks all the CC put on that target from now on.


But yeah, you're right. You don't even have to pay attention to your pets at all, because that makes sense from just about every standpoint, just put something in the game that you don't even need to pay attention to or control at all to do a good chunk of your damage for you. That makes complete sense. Why do they even have an attack button on the pet bar anymore?


Yeaaaah you don't know what you're talking about, so go ahead and think what you want, I don't care. You wouldn't make it in any of my raids though.

Dude it was on the other page.

 

[Xabora]

I just checked my gearscore for the first time ever now that you linked that. 3052. Is that good?

Dunno, again I don't use Gearscore.

I use Weights!

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Dude it was on the other page.

So they made it easier for the nubs who can't even write a /petattack macro into their rotation.


Good for them? It still doesn't change the fact that if you aren't paying attention to what 1.5k of what your DPS is doing you're retarded.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yeaaaah you don't know what you're talking about, so go ahead and think what you want, I don't care. You wouldn't make it in any of my raids though.

Just nevermind dude. I don't feel like seeping trade chat in here.

*post deleted*

 

[Entropia]

Hey xab,

What mod is that to make the tooltips prettier?

 

[Bisnic]

I just checked my gearscore for the first time ever now that you linked that. 3052. Is that good?

To be honest... with only 3052, pugs who swear by gearscore will not want you into any raids. The lowest i've seen in the easiest raids(well, the easiest raids that people still do, not counting things like Malygos, OS or Naxx) were around 3500.

Heroics, people don't really care about gearscore unless maybe in the new 5 mans heroics, especially if you tank or heal.

 

[Xabora]

Hey xab,

What mod is that to make the tooltips prettier?

TipTac
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/tip-tac.aspx

 

[Angry Grimace]

To be honest... with only 3052, pugs who swear by gearscore will not want you into any raids. Heroics, people don't really care about that unless maybe in the new 5 mans heroics.

Wow-heroes gear score is not the same thing as the Gearscore addon. I haven't checked it recently, but I believe that Wow-heroes gearscore accounts for enchants and gems and such and many people thus consider it far superior.

My personal thought is, a GS that verified Enchants and Gems on a perclass basis would be a lot more instructive than a raw sum of itemlevels, which is all that GS does (it provides slightly different weights to different slots, but it gives Greatness the same ranking as Mirror of Truth, for example).

 

[Bisnic]

Wow-heroes gear score is not the same thing as the Gearscore addon. I haven't checked it recently, but I believe that Wow-heroes gearscore accounts for enchants and gems and such and many people thus consider it far superior.

My personal thought is, a GS that verified Enchants and Gems on a perclass basis would be a lot more instructive than a raw sum of itemlevels, which is all that GS does (it provides slightly different weights to different slots, but it gives Greatness the same ranking as Mirror of Truth, for example).

Oh, he was talking about the score from Wow-heroes? My bad then. Yeah, definitely not the same thing.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Oh, he was talking about the score from Wow-heroes? My bad then. Yeah, definitely not the same thing.

I think he was talking about the one that wowhead has now, but the score layouts are similar, i.e. Xabora's linked character has a 2800 something, and he's got two items under ilvl 232.

Assuming we aren't counting his nice blue shirt.

Xab, I'm surprised you switched to Unholy. You seemed like a Frost guy from Wrath-launch to now....what happened? (P.S. I'm still using your threatmeter, even though you haven't updated it since 3.0.8. It still works :lol)

 

[Angry Grimace]

So they made it easier for the nubs who can't even write a /petattack macro into their rotation.


Good for them? It still doesn't change the fact that if you aren't paying attention to what 1.5k of what your DPS is doing you're retarded.

Shit; this just reminded me that I think you're right about the pet targeting though. Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure my IT macro does have a /petattack macro in there so the behavior I'm thinking of is probably just that. But even then, it's not like it makes a huge difference in overall pet management. But I'll admit I was probably wrong on that point.

Battered Hilt Droprate

We do not provide specific drop rates on the forums. The Battered Hilt has had three different drop rates now since the release of patch 3.3, none of which do we intend to share on the forums.

Yes, getting the hilt is rare and also intended to provide a more casual-friendly weapon. This doesn't mean a player who is not raiding should expect to get an ilevel 251 weapon within eight days of the patch's release, much less be angry when he or she doesn't.

Battered Hilt just dropped!

I did not even remotely come close to winning it, although thankfully, the guy that won it did not already have it. I'm not sure how that makes me feel any better about it.

 

[Tamanon]

Saurfang-10 down tonight, got a nice cloth healing headpiece for my offset. That fight is much easier with a hunter.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Saurfang-10 down tonight, got a nice cloth healing headpiece for my offset. That fight is much easier with a hunter.

Awesome... We had some kind of mass internet outage and pushed our raid tonight back to tomorrow (primarily because our hunter just couldn't get on for more than 20 seconds). Lot of connection problems recently, but nothing's seemed like too much of a challenge so far.

 

[KernelPanic]

We beat Deathwhisper and the Gunship Battle on 10man for the first time tonight.

Tried a couple of times on Saurfang and got him down to 5% at one point. Not sure what happened, people were prolly too tired.

Healers kept getting marked though.

 

[Angry Grimace]

We beat Deathwhisper and the Gunship Battle on 10man for the first time tonight.

Tried a couple of times on Saurfang and got him down to 5% at one point. Not sure what happened, people were prolly too tired.

Healers kept getting marked though.

Haven't gotten there myself, but I've been told that getting a mage to put up Amplify Magic is pretty helpful, although I assume you were already doing that. Hoping to get the Axe out of there since it doesn't look like even with the buff to the Hilt it's going to drop any time soon.

 

[Akim]

Man the first wing of ICC is too easy. My guild isn't hardcore at all and we clear it in like 2 hours. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Man the first wing of ICC is too easy. My guild isn't hardcore at all and we clear it in like 2 hours. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

You can always give hard modes a shot....sometime next year.

LFG musing: if you queue as a tank for "random Lich King heroic" you can and will end up running Halls of Reflection heroic at least twice every 2 hours, apparently the number of people queuing for this far exceeds everythign else by a lot.

:lol

 

[Xabora]

Xab, I'm surprised you switched to Unholy. You seemed like a Frost guy from Wrath-launch to now....what happened? (P.S. I'm still using your threatmeter, even though you haven't updated it since 3.0.8. It still works :lol)

I switched due a few things, one being a role guild needed due to unholy.
And yay it still work. :lol I had to start using omen due to my threat gen.


Also, my keyboard is now damaged.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I switched due a few things, one being a role guild needed due to unholy.
And yay it still work. :lol I had to start using omen due to my threat gen.


Also, my keyboard is now damaged.

You don't even use your own threatmeter? :lol

Well, I don't think they changed all that much about how the threat stuff is so it works the same as it did in 3.0.3. I've had unholy as a spec since 3.1.0, but I always wanted to Dual wield more. Problem is, getting 2 weapons instead of one is a chore.

edit: Got bit by the overzealous pulling DPSer :lol As I zone into Violet Hold I said, "hold on, let me get my dogs in" since I let them out to do their business and it's pretty cold out and they were wanting in. and I come back and the stupid moonkin has started the Violet hold event and is screaming at me to start tanking the mobs because he didn't bother to wait for me to even walk inside before starting the event and he had already started the event before I even zoned in. Needless to say, I just let them die and went and did some dailies while the debuff wore off.

 

[Loxley]

Hey guys, just got back into the game after about a three-month hiatus. Thing is, now that 3.3 is out, I have no idea what I should do :/ When I left, I had pretty much fallen out of the loop and way behind the gear curve. Here's a link to my Death Knight's armory. As you can see, his gear all-around is, eh, terrible (those tank shoulders I'm wearing fall under the "They were better than what I had" category).

Any advice on where I should go from here? I'm actually still apart of my raiding guild that I was in when I left, so I guess the potential for me to raid is there, albeit not immediately. I just ran Wintergrasp this morning to re-familiarize myself with it, thankfully we won

Oh, and if any of you happen to also play as a DK, feel free to give me any gear advice, what I should or should not be focusing on. I've looked at a few class guides, but at this point I'm not sure what is and is not outdated since 3.3.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Random Dungeon Finder.

 

[yacobod]

Random Dungeon Finder.

i took a 4-6 week break and just came back after 3.3, i notice when i use the random dungeon finder on my warrior i can grab groups as a tank in a minute or less, when i use it on my hunter as dps only it takes around 10 minutes to find a group

i imagine healers using it also get grps really fast as well

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

i took a 4-6 week break and just came back after 3.3, i notice when i use the random dungeon finder on my warrior i can grab groups as a tank in a minute or less, when i use it on my hunter as dps only it takes around 10 minutes to find a group

i imagine healers using it also get grps really fast as well

Sometimes it's healers, but most of the time it's a tank drought. Most people are either intimidated by it or don't even care to try. The gear requirements can also turn off potential tanks.

 

[Wrekt]

A few months ago a RL friend talked me into transferring to Blackwing Lair. I started out on Mal'Ganis at launch and moved to Black Dragonflight when the queues got too long near the start of WotLK.

What a fucking joke of a battlegroup. I queue'd up for a random dungeon this morning before work and got Heroic HoR. Sounded good until I looked up at the group list to see who I would be healing. We had 2 Warriors with 29k hp. I look at their sprites and both are wearing shields. I inspect them and they are both wearing a mix of pvp shit and def gear. Both of them have prot specs active. I take a look at the other dps and quickly realize that if even by some miracle we made it to the gauntlet, there would be no way of beating the timer.

I just dropped group and cleaned out my bank and mailbox .

 

[Yaweee]

Hey guys, just got back into the game after about a three-month hiatus. Thing is, now that 3.3 is out, I have no idea what I should do :/ When I left, I had pretty much fallen out of the loop and way behind the gear curve. Here's a link to my Death Knight's armory. As you can see, his gear all-around is, eh, terrible (those tank shoulders I'm wearing fall under the "They were better than what I had" category).

Any advice on where I should go from here? I'm actually still apart of my raiding guild that I was in when I left, so I guess the potential for me to raid is there, albeit not immediately. I just ran Wintergrasp this morning to re-familiarize myself with it, thankfully we won

Oh, and if any of you happen to also play as a DK, feel free to give me any gear advice, what I should or should not be focusing on. I've looked at a few class guides, but at this point I'm not sure what is and is not outdated since 3.3.

Other people said random dungeon finder, but I'd say, if at all possible, directly select the normal modes of the three new instances (and perhaps ToC). They drop 219 epics from everything on normal difficulty, and once you're geared enough. Meanwhile you'll be accruing enough Triumph emblems to buy T9 set pieces just to the East of the ToC raid entrance. I've gone from dinging 80 to average item level of around 232 in a little over a week.

Most of the shit you'll get in random dungeons will be worthless. Some of the epics in heroics will be decent, but only getting 1 i200 item per run really kills their efficiency.

 

[explodet]

I'm in a weird spot with my paladin tank. I've got enough gear that I could tank the new 5-mans easily, but it's so damn hard to find raiding spots for quick raids like Onyxia and VoA. You only need 3 tanks max for 25 mans, and in pick up raids those slots fill up fast.

I suspect that that's what all the tanks are doing - hanging out in LFR instead of LFG.

 

[KernelPanic]

If I queue up as a tank on my druid I get a group pretty much instantly. If I go as DPS I wait forever. Healer is more or less instant as well in my battlegroup.

Tanking the new heroics is kinda scary for my 39k tank, it's my offspec so I rarely get gear for him. The 4 nasty pulls on the hill in H PoS scare me and yesterday I finally had a grp that did it. My tank is kinda undergeared so really high gearscore people pull aggro off him unless they're careful. Got into a nasty fight with a warlock the other day that was getting healed almost as much as me. Cocky overgeared a-holes are prolly the worst people on there, but generally I've only found good players so far. I refuse to tank H HoR, I shudder to think how much I spent on repair bills in there.

Going for Saurfang again tonight, so far I find the first wing to be fairly easy. I got a nice offhand from Deathwhisper so if the staff drops I don't know what to do lol. So far 2 1h items seems to be better than 1 staff (assuming equal iLvls).

Gunship Battle has gotta be one of the most fun fights I've seen in a raid. Props to Blizz for that one.

I'm in a weird spot with my paladin tank. I've got enough gear that I could tank the new 5-mans easily, but it's so damn hard to find raiding spots for quick raids like Onyxia and VoA. You only need 3 tanks max for 25 mans, and in pick up raids those slots fill up fast.

I suspect that that's what all the tanks are doing - hanging out in LFR instead of LFG.

On my server it's usually hardest to get the tank spots filled for pick up raids. The DPS and heals get filled pretty quick.

 

[vilmer_]

Ret Pally brothers, I picked up the Tyrannical Beheader last night, but I'm not sure it's a valid upgrade over the Orca-Hunter's Harpoon. The strength bonus has upped my overall attack power, but I lost a ton of hit rating, which I need to be at 263 correct?

 

[funkmastergeneral]

Ret Pally brothers, I picked up the Tyrannical Beheader last night, but I'm not sure it's a valid upgrade over the Orca-Hunter's Harpoon. The strength bonus has upped my overall attack power, but I lost a ton of hit rating, which I need to be at 263 correct?

The only reason you'd use the harpoon is for hit, and at this point in the game reaching the hit cap is should not be an issue. I've been trying to unload hit for awhile =/

 

[vilmer_]

The only reason you'd use the harpoon is for hit, and at this point in the game reaching the hit cap is should not be an issue. I've been trying to unload hit for awhile =/

Cool, I'll stick with the Beheader then and maybe gem or look for a hit trinket for the time being until I start upgrading other gear. Here is a link to my armory to get a better look at where I'm at right now - ARMORY

 

[funkmastergeneral]

Why are you in half pvp gear half pve gear?

 

[vilmer_]

Why are you in half pvp gear half pve gear?

I recently switched from tanking to ret, the quickest way I found to get new stuff was honor point rewards. Currently saving up triumph emblems

 

[Fularu]

A few months ago a RL friend talked me into transferring to Blackwing Lair. I started out on Mal'Ganis at launch and moved to Black Dragonflight when the queues got too long near the start of WotLK.

What a fucking joke of a battlegroup. I queue'd up for a random dungeon this morning before work and got Heroic HoR. Sounded good until I looked up at the group list to see who I would be healing. We had 2 Warriors with 29k hp. I look at their sprites and both are wearing shields. I inspect them and they are both wearing a mix of pvp shit and def gear. Both of them have prot specs active. I take a look at the other dps and quickly realize that if even by some miracle we made it to the gauntlet, there would be no way of beating the timer.

I just dropped group and cleaned out my bank and mailbox .

A common strat among bad tanks is to duo tank the instance. It makes it extremely easy and is prety much fool proof. After that one of the two tanks can go DPS spec and have fun.

I'm still amazed at the number of warriors whinning about HoR though, taking care of all the adds as a warrior is super easy provided you always know where your healer is standing (and no, the LOS strat is terrible for warriors )

I'm in a weird spot with my paladin tank. I've got enough gear that I could tank the new 5-mans easily, but it's so damn hard to find raiding spots for quick raids like Onyxia and VoA. You only need 3 tanks max for 25 mans, and in pick up raids those slots fill up fast.

I suspect that that's what all the tanks are doing - hanging out in LFR instead of LFG.

Start your own raids, problem solved (and I'm dead serious). If you'Re expecting other people to ask you to come as a tank, you're wrong, people ask their friends or the tanks they know to be good before starting most raids.

 

[Angry Grimace]

A common strat among bad tanks is to duo tank the instance. It makes it extremely easy and is prety much fool proof. After that one of the two tanks can go DPS spec and have fun.

I'm still amazed at the number of warriors whinning about HoR though, taking care of all the adds as a warrior is super easy provided you always know where your healer is standing (and no, the LOS strat is terrible for warriors )

That's kind of a chicken strategy, although I've never heard that... I never liked things like that :lol It's sort of like when people would reset Heroic Utgarde Pinnacle because they didn't want to have to actually run through the gauntlet (even though it was never hard, and I mean in ilvl 200 gear it wasn't hard). Halls of Reflection is going to get hit with the nerf bat though because people want to faceroll heroics.

It would have been really interesting if the HoR came out (and it was that difficult) right at launch :lol

Start your own raids, problem solved (and I'm dead serious). If you'Re expecting other people to ask you to come as a tank, you're wrong, people ask their friends or the tanks they know to be good before starting most raids.

Agreed. Tanks are sort of foundation for any raid. More so than healer, because tanks need more than anyone to know what's going on. The kind of PUG raid that fails is the kind that just picks up some random tank spamming trade chat.

Ret Pally brothers, I picked up the Tyrannical Beheader last night, but I'm not sure it's a valid upgrade over the Orca-Hunter's Harpoon. The strength bonus has upped my overall attack power, but I lost a ton of hit rating, which I need to be at 263 correct?

Neither one of those is idea, I mean, Haste and Armor Pen on the Tyrannical Beheader sucks. But it's .1 slower and has a pretty significant chunk of Strength on it. It's kind of a judgment call in my mind depending on how much hit you need.

I'd also like to add, the Tyrannical Beheader is really fucking ugly.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Lol@Blizzard:

Quote from Blizzard staff
No Strength DPS Ring @ Ashen Verdict
The reason we haven't added one is actually a frustrating technical issue that prevents us from having more than 4 rewards on a quest like this. We do intend to fix this though and add a strength ring in the future, we just aren't sure this will be done for the Ashen Verdict line or if it will have to wait until the next time we use a system like this in a future patch.

[...] There are a lot of restrictions on these rings and we don't expect players to understand how tricky some technical issues can be.

We have done the four ring system in the past and while players may be a bit more selective about their stats these days, we don't want players to expect every source of loot to have perfect itemization for every class and every spec. There are other alternatives if you are unhappy with this option.

The reason there is no Strength ring is because you can't have more than 4 quest rewards? :lol

 

[J-Rzez]

Lol@Blizzard:


The reason there is no Strength ring is because you can't have more than 4 quest rewards? :lol

Yeah, I saw that and laughed, what a fucking joke. We were just discussing that a couple pages back.

 

[Jin]

Lol@Blizzard:


The reason there is no Strength ring is because you can't have more than 4 quest rewards? :lol

I don't get this either. Arena quests (PVE) gives out 6 rewards...

 

[Fularu]

Rep based quest rewards are limited to 4 from a programming design pov. They're trying to fix it, but it's understandable. Keep in mind that it isn't 4 rings but 16 (friendly, honored, revered and exalted). The item reward maximum for a quest must be something like 2^4 which is 16.

Changing it to say 5 or 6 different things means changing the whole item allocation code for rings and going from a 16 possible depth of rewards to a 32 one could be trickier than you think.

For reference, at work, adding one value to one of our variable domains has such a huge impact that my evaluation of it, so far, is in the neigbourghood of 140 d/p (and that's just adding a single value to a known domain).

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Rep based quest rewards are limited to 4 from a programming design pov. They're trying to fix it, but it's understandable. Keep in mind that it isn't 4 rings but 16 (friendly, honored, revered and exalted). The item reward maximum for a quest must be something like 2^4 which is 16.

Changing it to say 5 or 6 different things means changing the whole item allocation code for rings and going from a 16 possible depth of rewards to a 32 one could be trickier than you think.

For reference, at work, adding one value to one of our variable domains has such a huge impact that my evaluation of it, so far, is in the neigbourghood of 140 d/p (and that's just adding a single value to a known domain).

Yep. These things aren't always as simple as dropping another item into a list.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I don't get this either. Arena quests (PVE) gives out 6 rewards...

It does specifically say "on a quest like this". Upgradeable item reputation quests may work pretty differently internally. That said, lame excuse either way. Hopefully these things become less of an issue when the cataclysm stats overhaul happens.

Edit: What Fularu said!

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yep. These things aren't always as simple as dropping another item into a list.

I understand it's not simply as easy as "add item one" but it sounds really funny when you put it like "We can't make a necessary item because we can't have more than 4 quest rewards."

My guess is that they will fix it with some weird workaround, i.e. just add a different quest guy that starts a quest that's flagged as a different quest.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Sometimes it's healers, but most of the time it's a tank drought. Most people are either intimidated by it or don't even care to try. The gear requirements can also turn off potential tanks.

<3 Paladin tanking. It's so nice to be able to stick mobs on you like fly paper and have so many tools.

When I DPS on my other guys, I never seem to GET paladin tanks though. I'd guess when randoming, the tanks have been something like this:

80% Warriors
10% Paladins
10% Death Knights
0% Druids

 

[JoeFu]

Badge loot for ele shaman suck I'm not sure which ring to pick up, the one with the haste, or just the healing one.

Why make stuff so hard for shammies

 

[explodet]

I've gotten a few druid tanks in random ICC 5-mans, they've all done pretty okay for themselves.

And yeah, pally tanking is awesome. Even after the slight threat nerf.
Nothing like the Argent Defender animation popping up to tell myself or tell the healers to Pay More Attention.

 

[funkmastergeneral]

Badge loot for ele shaman suck I'm not sure which ring to pick up, the one with the haste, or just the healing one.

Why make stuff so hard for shammies

Enhancement has it rough too in ICC, all the mail is itemized for hunters, but we still don't have it as bad as elemental. Supposedly this is getting fixed in Cataclysm though, but who knows...

 

[Angry Grimace]

I've gotten a few druid tanks in random ICC 5-mans, they've all done pretty okay for themselves.

And yeah, pally tanking is awesome. Even after the slight threat nerf.
Nothing like the Argent Defender animation popping up to tell myself or tell the healers to Pay More Attention.

My understanding was that it wasn't supposed to be a "nerf" to threat generation but more to keep Paladins from peeling off Death Knights when offtanking :lol

And yeah, there's nothing like the eyeroll you do when Ardent Defender pops up within the first 20 seconds of fighting Scourgelord Tyrannus :lol because his knockback blow that precedes the kiting phase does like 20K damage. Once you realize that all you have to do is tank him with your back to a frost patch since the Smash knocks you over it and he has to walk through it to get to you, it's pretty simple though.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

You are supposed to kite Tyrannus? Edit: Oh.

 

[Entropia]

Badge loot for ele shaman suck I'm not sure which ring to pick up, the one with the haste, or just the healing one.

Why make stuff so hard for shammies

There's a nice belt, which is one item more than previous emblems. :lol

 

[JoeFu]

Oh, haha you're talking about frost? No way I'll ever get enough badges for anything there. I'm talking about the triumph ones where there's nothing

I wish I could raid more so I could get some phat lewtz