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World of Warcraft
- Thread starter Cerebral Palsy
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Speaking of Saurfang, the group with which i do raids usually have such a hard time with Saurfang 10. It's our first time in ICC, but we only wiped like 2-3 times in the other boss fights, but this one... we just can't make the last 20% at all. There's always someone dying from those damn marks and once that person die, you know the boss fight is doomed in the following minutes. 
Any special tips? Is 2 healers enough for this fight? We had 2 ranged for each add, which was enough for this, we also had a shaman for heroism near the end. But those marks are killing us near the end.
Any special tips? Is 2 healers enough for this fight? We had 2 ranged for each add, which was enough for this, we also had a shaman for heroism near the end. But those marks are killing us near the end.
Bisnic said:Speaking of Saurfang, the group with which i do raids usually have such a hard time with Saurfang 10. It's our first time in ICC, but we only wiped like 2-3 times in the other boss fights, but this one... we just can't make the last 20% at all. There's always someone dying from those damn marks and once that person die, you know the boss fight is doomed in the following minutes.
Any special tips? Is 2 healers enough for this fight? We had 2 ranged for each add, which was enough for this, we also had a shaman for heroism near the end. But those marks are killing us near the end.
When are you getting your first mark? My group can do it with only 1 being cast. It's all about not letting him get BP. Once you start getting marks you'll wipe. Watch positioning and do not get hit by adds. Also make sure the tanks are taunting at the right times.
arhra
Member
The key to Saurfang is controlling the rate at which he gains blood power. There's a few sources for it - hitting the tank (not a whole lot you can do about this; our tanks switched in more avoidance gear, which seemed to make a small difference, and our priest went disc since i don't think he gains anything from fully-absorbed hits), hitting people with blood nova (random aoe on ranged, spread out so it only hits one person at once), ticks of blood boil (dot cast on random raid members - absorb effects seem to prevent him gaining power from absorbed ticks, so disc priests are awesome here), the blood beasts hitting people (have the ranged kite them - hunters are amazing for distracting shot and frost traps, but anyone can do the job, just nuke them to death and snare/root them as much as possible), and the mark hitting people (acts just like more melee attacks, basically; disc priests are again awesome).Bisnic said:Speaking of Saurfang, the group with which i do raids usually have such a hard time with Saurfang 10. It's our first time in ICC, but we only wiped like 2-3 times in the other boss fights, but this one... we just can't make the last 20% at all. There's always someone dying from those damn marks and once that person die, you know the boss fight is doomed in the following minutes.
Any special tips? Is 2 healers enough for this fight? We had 2 ranged for each add, which was enough for this, we also had a shaman for heroism near the end. But those marks are killing us near the end.
Once you've got all of the above factors under control, it's just a case of dpsing him down as fast as possible and hoping your tanks have the switching down quick so he doesn't heal too much. If you do it right, he should get one mark off at the most (our first kill had him cast his first mark literally as he died).
Two healers is plenty, unless you're letting the blood power get out of control (in fact, it's easier to two-heal it than three-heal it, since the marks act as a soft enrage, and getting him down before he can cast too many is the key). Letting him get off more than one mark will generally mean the fight spirals out of control, since his blood power gain increases with each mark, and with two up he gains it roughly three times as fast as at first (which leads to more marks, which means increased healing pressure, which means people die, which means he heals, which means you're fucked).
Yeah, we get our second mark with him at around 5% health personally. It's all about not letting the blood beasts boost him, that's it. It's weird that the achievement is to kill him without three marks being up, when three marks pretty much means a wipe in 10-man anyways.
Oh yeah, and damage shields are amazing, especially Power Word Shield. Since he doesn't get blood power from that damage.
Oh yeah, and damage shields are amazing, especially Power Word Shield. Since he doesn't get blood power from that damage.
God damn WoW players have become lazy ass motherfuckers.
On my Ele Shaman, I am use to blitzing through heroics, but I know thats because I and the tank and healers, etc, are overgeared. heroic toc tanks can run these five mans without a healer almost.
Then I run a heroic on my prot pally, which I am gearing up. First thing in chat is the healer saying "if dps doesn't pick up then I'm out". Low on the dps is 3k dps. Plenty for a damned heroic. Then the DK says "our tank is severely undergeared" and the healer asks, as I'm pulling mobs, "how can you get in here with blues?" Which is in reference to me. I say, simoly, "it's a five man heroic". But oh no, its heroic Pit of Saron, which somehow needs epic toc gearing to finish. I just tell them I did this same heroic earlier with people in naxx level purples and 2k dps. They respond "next thing you'll tell us is you can tank HoR!"
At this point, I'm a little tired of their lazy asses. We ran the entire dungeon clean. The healer says he was carrying me at some point. I barely had a hit that dropped me below 90 percent on a boss for him to even heal. These people have been carried, as if they never had to try at healing. Heroics were started by people in blues when worlk opened. That is the gear level expected, there is just some skill expected, and since I knew every pull and how to pull, when to use CDs and work mobs and bosses, it was god damned easy. At the end the lock says "great group and run", the DK and healer just bow out silently. The whole ordeal felt like grouping with lazy ass players, who never had to shed an ounce of skill. I could have 45k hp and not take a ding, and you could sleepwalk through the dungeon, but that is not the norm. I've carried 30k hp tanks and 1k dps on my Ele Shaman by burning every boss down, and I didn't say a word because that level of gear is fine for heroics. How the hell do these people succeed in heroic raids where you can't just over gear it?
On my Ele Shaman, I am use to blitzing through heroics, but I know thats because I and the tank and healers, etc, are overgeared. heroic toc tanks can run these five mans without a healer almost.
Then I run a heroic on my prot pally, which I am gearing up. First thing in chat is the healer saying "if dps doesn't pick up then I'm out". Low on the dps is 3k dps. Plenty for a damned heroic. Then the DK says "our tank is severely undergeared" and the healer asks, as I'm pulling mobs, "how can you get in here with blues?" Which is in reference to me. I say, simoly, "it's a five man heroic". But oh no, its heroic Pit of Saron, which somehow needs epic toc gearing to finish. I just tell them I did this same heroic earlier with people in naxx level purples and 2k dps. They respond "next thing you'll tell us is you can tank HoR!"
At this point, I'm a little tired of their lazy asses. We ran the entire dungeon clean. The healer says he was carrying me at some point. I barely had a hit that dropped me below 90 percent on a boss for him to even heal. These people have been carried, as if they never had to try at healing. Heroics were started by people in blues when worlk opened. That is the gear level expected, there is just some skill expected, and since I knew every pull and how to pull, when to use CDs and work mobs and bosses, it was god damned easy. At the end the lock says "great group and run", the DK and healer just bow out silently. The whole ordeal felt like grouping with lazy ass players, who never had to shed an ounce of skill. I could have 45k hp and not take a ding, and you could sleepwalk through the dungeon, but that is not the norm. I've carried 30k hp tanks and 1k dps on my Ele Shaman by burning every boss down, and I didn't say a word because that level of gear is fine for heroics. How the hell do these people succeed in heroic raids where you can't just over gear it?
On the topic of Saurfang - the last 2 weeks (between 2 toons), we've managed to down him 1 out of 4. Now, I'm reading about 2 healing that fight, which in hindsight makes sense... Is this how most groups are approaching this fight, because we've been taking 3 heals there? I realize that the other bosses in the wing are a joke anyway, but it's incredibly frustrating to go into 10 icc with what feels like a good group of players and gear, 1 shot/steam roll everything up to Saurfang and then bang our heads against the wall until we just give up. Well consistently get him down to 10-20% and then just get overwhelmed and the snowball effect of the first death to a mark will wipe us.
Are most successful groups using 2 heals there? Maybe we just fail at keeping the boss from gaining the blood points
Are most successful groups using 2 heals there? Maybe we just fail at keeping the boss from gaining the blood points
ToddG15 said:
If you're appropriately geared for ICC10 (as in your raid is pretty much mostly 10 man geared), then yes, 3 healers is doing you a disservice. Two Friday's ago we tried with 3 healers and wiped like 7 times and were barely getting Saurfang to 30% before a third mark would go up and someone would inevitably die. Then we had one of our healers go DPS and three shot him. Then last Friday with 2 healers we one shot him.
Yah, we are all well geared, mostly toc 25 with some stuff from 10 toc/togc as well. I hate to use gearscore, as it's not necessarily indicative of skill but avg gs is 5.1k+. Next week we'll have to try 2 healers and hopefully end our problems with this boss.FLEABttn said:
Thanks!
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
This has never not been true.etiolate said:
Yeah, i think the problem is people are getting too many marks, there can be up to 2 or 3 marks when he's around 20%, which make this way too hard for our healers. I think the problem is we're not nuking the adds fast enough and we HAVE to move so they dont hit us, but by moving, we get closer to other people and it ruins the 12 yards limit. I use Frostfire bolts, shaman put a totem, hunter put a trap, but it still seem some of the ranged cant kill them fast enough without having to run away from them. Our priest is also Holy, i dunno if i should tell her to switch to Disc. :lol
And the /range option of DBM does not even show 12 yards... 11 yards yes, but not 12. =/
And the /range option of DBM does not even show 12 yards... 11 yards yes, but not 12. =/
Addon question:
I'm using MoveAnything to move elements of my minimap UI around and it's causing me headaches. First of all I have my minimap moved from it's default location to the bottom right of the screen but the '+' and '-' zoom buttons are still up in the corner. I use the MoveAnything mod to hide them but they reappear every time I log and I have to use the mod again (very annoying). Secondly, the patch added a new UI element being the LFG queue icon as well as the dungeon indicator (5, 10, 25man icon) that are located in the defaut minimap location as well and there doesn't appear to be a selection in the mod to move these elements. Is there an easier way to handle this minimap fiasco? I just want to move the damn thing from the upper right to the lower right and have ALL its sub elements come with it. Sigh.
I'm using MoveAnything to move elements of my minimap UI around and it's causing me headaches. First of all I have my minimap moved from it's default location to the bottom right of the screen but the '+' and '-' zoom buttons are still up in the corner. I use the MoveAnything mod to hide them but they reappear every time I log and I have to use the mod again (very annoying). Secondly, the patch added a new UI element being the LFG queue icon as well as the dungeon indicator (5, 10, 25man icon) that are located in the defaut minimap location as well and there doesn't appear to be a selection in the mod to move these elements. Is there an easier way to handle this minimap fiasco? I just want to move the damn thing from the upper right to the lower right and have ALL its sub elements come with it. Sigh.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It's because they don't bother to update it.Epix said:
I use it to hide party frames when I heal in heroics. You just have to open it and click/unclick the littler Character Specific Settings Box to make it actually start working.
etiolate said:
The new thing on our servers are freshly made 80s asking for Gearscore and Achievement links for ToC and ICC rep runs when they don't even come CLOSE to what they are asking for.
It's comical. This gearscore shit has been a PLAGUE. I understand what it tried to do... but I see more harm from it. If it weren't for random dungeons (and my guildees... ok....) my alt would never have a chance to run anything.
Johnlenham
Member
This happens to me with the tool tip, fucking thing is allways moving around after a log out/log-in, I really do need to sort out my addons as something is also stopping me from having a frame for the MT so it makes misdirect use easier for me.Epix said:
10mins on hold so far with a further possible 15 more to fix my account woo
Edit: MOTHERFUCKER! it just died (as if they put the phone down) after 20mins.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Yep. I have to have my guild run me through everything at least once, or else the pug leader will tell me I'm not good enough because I don't have the achievement. It even goes far enough that they won't let you do 10-man TOC even if you have the 25-man TOC achievement because anyone can get carried through the 25-man. 1-shotted that 10-man TOC later that day with a different PUG that wasn't led by an idiot.hobart said:
There's also the people that request you be in the gear you're trying to obtain before you're ready to do that particular raid.
Johnlenham
Member
That shits crazy!Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
I got into a 10man ToC no problem and I was still rocking some Naxx gear with a few Ulduar thrown in (Sirens cry,Fiery behemoth gloves and such) and one shot our way through the lot without problem.
Mr Nash
square pies = communism
etiolate said:
It's easy, they don't succeed. They're the same people that botch every fight, not trying to learn it, then rage quit after, blaming everyone else. The problem with making a lot of high tiered gear available to everyone is that it makes the stupids forget that Gearscore does not equal skill. I've seen people geared to the hilt that can't get past Beasts of Northrend in reg ToC 10.
That said, I finally had a random group that was so bad, I just had to pack it up and leave. I mentioned it a little bit ago, but some tanks seem to think it's okay to run ahead of the group as fast as they can, chain pulling despite the casters having their mana down below 10%. The idiot tank in a PoS run we were doing was constantly doing this, and would go into boss fights before topping up too. During Garfrost, he would chase after him when he ran back to his forge after throwing the saronite, then wonder why we weren't joining him, instead staying behind the rocks. Of course, I had to run out a couple of times to get out of line of sight issues to heal the moron, almost dying myself in the process. We finally down the guy, I top up everyone's HPs, and he runs off for the next group while all our mana in utterly drained.
This continues up through Ick and Krick. After the fight, I had to rez the rogue in our group since he got thumped pretty good by an unlucky cluster of those lightning explosions during the fight. I do that, buff him, and top up the group again, after which the idiot barrels straight into the gauntlet on the hill despite my having virtually no mana to speak of. At this point the mage and hunter sigh, and try to catch up and help despite not being ready themselves. Meanwhile, I'm still replenishing my mana, and they promptly wipe. After this, I'd pretty much had enough of this tank's running into fights before everyone else is ready, and left.
I wouldn't have minded so much if he was the sort that can take care of himself for some trash pulls, I've seen plenty of these types of tanks of late, but this guy was getting thumped hard without a healer present (it was kind of surprising too since he was a DK, and well-geared, yet he was getting hit hard, and not using any of his self healing abilities). Ploughing through a dungeon is fine, but be sure to coordinate it with everyone first. Don't just take an "I'm running through this as fast as I can, and you're gonna like it" attitude. That's just gonna cause problems.
Tony Rocky Horror
Member
Does anyone have any tips for using the recording of the mac version?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Hit the Record key to start and then the Stop key when you're done.Banzaiaap said:
Tony Rocky Horror
Member
Thanks for the tip, that's a lifesaver right there!Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
What I specifically meant was how to record and setup for use with YouTube. Any tips on that?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Answer to the Ret. Pally question I posed a few pages back from Elitist Jerks:
Of course, I'll probably get an infraction ban since I originally responded with a clarification to another more cryptic post and by the time I posted, a much better reply was posted and my 2nd post was totally unnecessary. :lol c'est la vie on Elitist Jerks though.
They should probably let you delete your posts there though if they are going to be all draconic with those posting rules. :lol
Elitist Jerks said:
Of course, I'll probably get an infraction ban since I originally responded with a clarification to another more cryptic post and by the time I posted, a much better reply was posted and my 2nd post was totally unnecessary. :lol c'est la vie on Elitist Jerks though.
They should probably let you delete your posts there though if they are going to be all draconic with those posting rules. :lol
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
ToddG15 said:
2 Heals were what worked for us.
Ideally, your dps should be enough and your ranged spread out enough that he might not even get a mark off.
On our 1st 10 man run, he managed to get one at the end, but we powered through, 2nd week, he didn't even get one off.
edit: Little late, sorry, had this open for a while after I went out.
All Icecrown 10-man fights should be able to be 2 healed. I know we try initially on a lot of them to 3-heal just to get a feel for it, and 3-healing Marrowgar just makes it easier for us since I'm a resto off-spec and HoTs make the fight trivial.
But yeah, on Deathwhisper and Saurfang we were gimping ourselves by using three healers, just because both fights it is so important to get adds down, that it works the healing out that way.
But yeah, on Deathwhisper and Saurfang we were gimping ourselves by using three healers, just because both fights it is so important to get adds down, that it works the healing out that way.
Mr Nash
square pies = communism
I've been getting tons of Drak'Tharon, and a fair bit of Nexus in the randoms, even a decent amount of time in Occ. The Drak'Tharon runs are getting pretty annoying though. I'll just finish getting all badged up with triumph stuff, the futz around in ToC 10 and Ulduar till I finish what I want to do in those places.
Oni Link 666
Member
I get a pretty good mix of randoms. I do get a lot of HOL and Nexus though. I haven't gotten Halls of Stone once yet and I'm kind of glad. Last time I was in there with a PUG we wiped on the gauntlet like 5 times before I left.
We finally got Death Bringer Saurfang down last night. Saurfang and Lady Deathwhisper are by far the hardest ones. Morrowgar is pretty easy and the Gunship is just a cake walk.
I also got my T10 Rogue shoulders. Hooray for getting rid of those damned paladin gear looking (Horde) T9 shoulders. I don't even care if they were the best upgrade or not. Those things had fucking lights on them. LIGHTS. On Rogue gear!
We finally got Death Bringer Saurfang down last night. Saurfang and Lady Deathwhisper are by far the hardest ones. Morrowgar is pretty easy and the Gunship is just a cake walk.
I also got my T10 Rogue shoulders. Hooray for getting rid of those damned paladin gear looking (Horde) T9 shoulders. I don't even care if they were the best upgrade or not. Those things had fucking lights on them. LIGHTS. On Rogue gear!
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
That means it's random.Tamanon said:
Johnlenham
Member
Halls of stone and Gundrak for me on both my Hunter and 77 DK.
This is getting on my nerves, spoke to accounts 5 hours ago and the woman said it would take no more than 2 hours to fix and that even after that any items missing from it would take another 5-7 days as it can only be done be GMs and thats the wait time. Shame nothings changed since then! :/
This is getting on my nerves, spoke to accounts 5 hours ago and the woman said it would take no more than 2 hours to fix and that even after that any items missing from it would take another 5-7 days as it can only be done be GMs and thats the wait time. Shame nothings changed since then! :/
Tamanon said:
I've been getting a pretty even blend, with a recent tilt towards FOS and POS due to more players explicitly selecting that for whatever reason. I started with the LFG tool without having done any of the heroics, and had all but Oculus done for the achievement within a week. I still don't have the achievement despite randoming Oculus 5+ times.
Sometimes, I suspect people are being dicks and selecting Oculus just so 4 people will random it.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Oculus is easy and done in 20 minutes.
Occulus is just un-fun garbage. Fight a bunch of trash -- get on a dragon -- get off the dragon -- fight a bunch of trash -- get on a dragon -- get off the dragon -- fight a bunch of trash -- get on the dragon......
They really ought to have just had everyone on dragons for the entire thing.
They really ought to have just had everyone on dragons for the entire thing.
Deputy Moonman
Member
Yeah, it has a bad reputation because it used to be harder and that made it take longer. The trash isn't that exciting, but at least it doesn't last long. The most annoying part might just be the very beginning with all the whelps, at least for me. I think I dislike the Culling of Stratholme more, simply because the distance you have to run at the beginning and the dialogue you have to listen to takes so long.border said:
Angry Grimace said:
QFT.
In any case more info to the guy above about Saurfang. Pop hero at the start of the fight as SOON as the engagement goes, thats what we did after our first wipe.
Theres no use popping it when he does his soft enrage at 25% because alot of the heroism is wasted because ranged is kiting and dpsing beasts. The idea is to get as much of that dps into Saurfang to get him dead before that mark goes out and he starts generating rp. Use it when everyone can get the most uptime out of it.
And for the love of god, get your enhance shaman to stop chain lightning on whatever that proc is they get, get your pally tank to find a way to manage without consecrate (put the hunters and rogues on MD and Tricks every cooldown to supplement for his threat loss) tell the warriors if you see a cleave on the freaking recount its a gkick and I have no clue what to tell you to do if you have a blood dk. Point is, its annoying to have the beasts pop and aggroed onto the freaking melee in 25 man. Ranged have to peel them off, but it wont happen before the beasts hit melee and give Saurfang RP because the beasts have like 90% AE avoidance.
So ranged cant just spam volley over the top of the entire area to aggro the beasts off of melee, it wont do enough damage to peel fast enough.
I'm surprised that there are "skip dialogue" options for both Trial of the Champion and Halls of Reflection, yet they never bothered to give you something like that for Culling of Stratholme.
How any one could hate CoS though, I dunno. It's fun, moves pretty fast and yields 5 badges.
How any one could hate CoS though, I dunno. It's fun, moves pretty fast and yields 5 badges.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
A Blood DK shouldn't really do much threat on a Blood Beast given that the AoE reduction is like 90% and virtually anything would pull it off. You could also start using Blood Strike for the 4 seconds in which the Beasts are in Cleave range.Puncture said:
If your kiters are any good at all, it shouldn't be a problem. In my group, well it's a problem. :lol
jim-jam bongs
Member
border said:
They were asked about this recently and said that it's implemented differently, so isn't quite as simple as it is with the others. Did say it might come down the track though.
border said:
Do you go hide your phone after you login or something? My phone is sitting on my desk, and the app is still running after I unlock. It's usually still refreshing the numbers too. It doesn't even add an additional five seconds to the login process.
I don't visit any questionable sites, but it's given me peace of mind, considering I don't grind heavily, I don't play like crazy, and I haven't been one of those people to get all the latest and greatest, or the most gold. If I lost everything on my single level 80, that would probably be the end of that for me.
I really wanna level a shield and board tank, it's the only thing in WoW that I've never done and honestly seems the funnest.
So I have a couple questions, I know defense rating is pretty much the barrier to entry for whether or not tanking a certain instance / raid is possible, does this mean that gear progression for tanks is much slower then other roles such as dps because it's near impossible to be carried?
Also I really want to use sword and board so dk and Druid are out of the question, I've always heard that Paladin is the aoe tank and warrior is well, warrior. Are there any strengths / weaknesses that I should know going into my choice?
Lastly are there any tank resource websites other then obvious ones like tankspot where I can read about some more in depth tank related topics?
Thanks in advance to whoever takes time to answer!
So I have a couple questions, I know defense rating is pretty much the barrier to entry for whether or not tanking a certain instance / raid is possible, does this mean that gear progression for tanks is much slower then other roles such as dps because it's near impossible to be carried?
Also I really want to use sword and board so dk and Druid are out of the question, I've always heard that Paladin is the aoe tank and warrior is well, warrior. Are there any strengths / weaknesses that I should know going into my choice?
Lastly are there any tank resource websites other then obvious ones like tankspot where I can read about some more in depth tank related topics?
Thanks in advance to whoever takes time to answer!
Mr Nash
square pies = communism
It's not that hard to get def capped for heroics. I got my dk there with quest items and blues off the AH. I'd imagine it would be slightly easier for a war or pally since they'll have that extra slot to have some def in (shield).
While we're at it, what do y'all think of dual wielding dk tanking post 3.3? Doable, or will there be parry gibbing issues?
While we're at it, what do y'all think of dual wielding dk tanking post 3.3? Doable, or will there be parry gibbing issues?
Getting defense capped is not hard -- getting enough stamina so that people don't start moaning and complaining the second you show up is another thing :lol Nobody cares about your defense cap if you have 23K health.
Just use LFG to find Heroic groups as a DPS player, use the drops and badges from there to buy tanking items.
Just use LFG to find Heroic groups as a DPS player, use the drops and badges from there to buy tanking items.
Tamanon said:
All I ever get is seemingly HoS, HoL, DTK, and more than any of those even, Occ. I hate, hate, hate Occ with a passion. I don't care even with good guildies or with good pugs, it still sucks. Such an annoying instance.
border said:
Yeah, people almost want you to food and flask up buff as well anymore. "44k+hp unbuffed or GTFO of this UK run!!!" :lol
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