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[moojito]

Tanking is the easiest job in Icecrown.

Aye, as a tank I feel guilty on the blood prince and saurfang fights just kind of standing there hitting taunt every once in a while or moving a few steps to the side.

 

[Macattk15]

i'd hate to burst your bubble, but i pugged a 10m on saturday night, we only downed 6 bosses, we wiped on putricide 5 times before calling the raid, we one shot every boss besides rotface, which i think we 2 or 3 shot, i think your mileage may vary by server, but on servers like Illidan or Mal'ganis, its pretty common for the 10m and 25m to be pugged and go at least down 6 bosses

most of the ppl in raid were pretty geared and experienced tho, i think i was the lowest geared person in the raid, i was a 5k gearscore offtank w/like 36k hp unbuffed, it was my first time in the instance, but at least the first 6 fights seemed pretty easy

Well if you wiped on Putricide the Plagueworks wasn't pugged, 2 of the 3 bosses were which is much more believable than the Plagueworks were pugged as I see Putricide being pretty unpuggable .... at least on 25 man.

 

[Yaweee]

The puggable/not-puggable debate is a bit of a moving window. Once people get geared up more, known strategies are better refined, and people have done the fights before (10 or 25 man), I wouldn't be surprised to see every available boss so far get pugged. It's astonishing how much better the recent 25m pugs are compared to the first few weeks.

 

[moojito]

I think puggability comes down to how many variations in tactics folk use. If there's one accepted way of doing a boss, then a group of 232 t9 and badge gear alts that know what they're doing should be able to get it done. I think ~5k dps can be expected from that kind of gear, at least.

Unfortunately proper random pugs tend to have a lot of the "i r gud dps 6k+++" types who end up just over 3k, but a pug of alts from a few of the top guilds on a server I can see getting away with it.

 

[KernelPanic]

I shudder at the thought of PuG'ing ICC, with anything less than geared people that have done it before, Rotface and Putricide ? Can't see it happening without major nerfs.

Most PUGs on my server struggle with Ony25, the concept of moving away from Deep Breath and not standing behind the dragon seems really difficult for the average person. It generally falls on the 10-15 experienced people on the raid to get it done, while the rest are dead yelling for a battle rez.

VoA is about the only PuG raid that goes off flawlessly although I have seen a wipe at least once :lol

I can see the point about common strategies, we teamed with another guild to do ToC25 recently and we did great up until the twins where we kept wiping. The other guild uses some other strategy none of us ever heard before and doing it our way (split the raid in half between white and black) seemed too much for them to get used to, so we gave up.

 

[Macattk15]

The puggable/not-puggable debate is a bit of a moving window. Once people get geared up more, known strategies are better refined, and people have done the fights before (10 or 25 man), I wouldn't be surprised to see every available boss so far get pugged. It's astonishing how much better the recent 25m pugs are compared to the first few weeks.

Ok but I'd love to see a true pug in 25 man deal with Phase 3 on Putricide or co-ordinating bites and such on Blood Queen.

 

[Yaweee]

Ok but I'd love to see a true pug in 25 man deal with Phase 3 on Putricide or co-ordinating bites and such on Blood Queen.

What's a "true pug"? People that have never done the encounter before, never watched strategies, have bad gear, and suck? You'd be amazed at the progress a pug can make if people are willing to actually try rather than quitting after 2 wipes.

 

[KernelPanic]

What's a "true pug"? People that have never done the encounter before, never watched strategies, and suck? You'd be amazed at the progress a pug can make if people are willing to actually try rather than quitting after 2 wipes.

On my server, one wipe is usually enough to have a few people disband from the raid. Waiting around to fill those spots usually results in several more leaving ... and so on.

 

[Yaweee]

On my server, one wipe is usually enough to have a few people disband from the raid. Waiting around to fill those spots usually results in several more leaving ... and so on.

That's the biggest strike against pugs. Why the hell would people leave with one boss down after one wipe, just after they are locked to the instance? It can be maddening at times.

 

[KernelPanic]

That's the biggest strike against pugs. Why the hell would people leave with one boss down after one wipe, just after they are locked to the instance? It can be maddening at times.

Just as maddening as a DPS leaving a 5-man random only to face a 15-30 min queue before they can try again :lol

People have a really low tolerance for failure in WoW. One of the top guilds on my server supposedly kicks its own members from a raid if they mess up, without warning.

People want their loot .. and they want it fast.

 

[Macattk15]

What's a "true pug"? People that have never done the encounter before, never watched strategies, have bad gear, and suck? You'd be amazed at the progress a pug can make if people are willing to actually try rather than quitting after 2 wipes.

Just the typical grouping of people you would find by spamming trade chat in any major city. Not some group of alts from the top guild on the server or say 10 players from one guild directing the others.

For instance, I actually for some reason stayed in the random heroic Occulus I got in until the end where I knew the mouth-breathers would be unable to handle Eregos. EVEN after I explained how to play EACH drake and when to Time Stop and EVERYTHING. 2 people just kept failing and failing and I eventually just left and re-queued ... got in the ToC heroic and was done in like 10 mins.

 

[yacobod]

with how buffed the drakes are in occulus now, is it possible to fail anymore?, peoples drakes typically have like 110-120k hp, not like 75k hp or w/e it used to be, its pretty ridiculous

 

[Yaweee]

Just the typical grouping of people you would find by spamming trade chat in any major city. Not some group of alts from the top guild on the server or say 10 players from one guild directing the others.

For instance, I actually for some reason stayed in the random heroic Occulus I got in until the end where I knew the mouth-breathers would be unable to handle Eregos. EVEN after I explained how to play EACH drake and when to Time Stop and EVERYTHING. 2 people just kept failing and failing and I eventually just left and re-queued ... got in the ToC heroic and was done in like 10 mins.

Almost every raid pug I've seen asks for WH/GS/stats and achieve, so they aren't pugs in the same sense as random heroics. Are those "true pugs" because they are selective?

 

[KernelPanic]

I've seen people fail Occulus all the time, even with the buffed drakes.

Our server's weekly raid was Eye of Eternity, I can't even begin to imagine PuG'ing that :lol

 

[Yaweee]

I've seen people fail Occulus all the time, even with the buffed drakes.

Our server's weekly raid was Eye of Eternity, I can't even begin to imagine PuG'ing that :lol

The weekly raid has been EoE twice so far for us, pugged it both times.

It's also been Ignis twice. I fucking hate Ulduar.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The puggable/not-puggable debate is a bit of a moving window. Once people get geared up more, known strategies are better refined, and people have done the fights before (10 or 25 man), I wouldn't be surprised to see every available boss so far get pugged. It's astonishing how much better the recent 25m pugs are compared to the first few weeks.

It also depends how many people are really puggers, as opposed to just guys who already know each other.

The weekly raid has been EoE twice so far for us, pugged it both times.

It's also been Ignis twice. I fucking hate Ulduar.

We've had Anub'Rekhan like three times :lol

Plus Noth, which everyone conveniently forgot has some kind of curse of doom which kills you all :lol

 

[Akim]

with how buffed the drakes are in occulus now, is it possible to fail anymore?, peoples drakes typically have like 110-120k hp, not like 75k hp or w/e it used to be, its pretty ridiculous

I really don't think so. Me and my buddy did it yesterday and accidentally pulled while the other 3 group members weren't mounted and we 2 manned it with 1 red, 1 amber.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I really don't think so. Me and my buddy did it yesterday and accidentally pulled while the other 3 group members weren't mounted and we 2 manned it with 1 red, 1 amber.

I was hoping to get the Oculus in a random-frenzy for some Crusader Orbs I wanted to use to farm for an alt, but it never happens. Oculus is actually very fast compared to some dungeons, and you get 8 triumphs if you're on your second or higher a day. Not to mention, I could use the blue gems to transmute to epics.

 

[Tamanon]

The toughest part of Oculus period are just those stupid whelps at the very beginning, that's it.

 

[Dunlop]

Shadow priest is ridiculous with full BOA gear.

Spirit Tap + the 2 spellpower trinkets = Who the fuck needs water?

Just need 1 Vampiric Touch, 1 Shadow Word Pain and 2 Mind Flays and the npc is dead, im back at full mana and he barely hit me, and if he did, my Vampiric Embrace buff was enough to put it back to 100%. By the way, i love how VE is a buff now and not something you have to reapply on every npc you attack.

The leveling is taking a little longer now that I am 70 (think it went from like 900k to 1.5 million xp). I might go all shadow and give the dungeons a break so I can grind out the quests faster, hopefully find a way to make 1000g so I can dual spec.

My firewall at works prevents me from finding any site to which derive the answer and not look stupid so:

What is BOA gear?

 

[Angry Grimace]

The leveling is taking a little longer now that I am 70 (think it went from like 900k to 1.5 million xp). I might go all shadow and give the dungeons a break so I can grind out the quests faster, hopefully find a way to make 1000g so I can dual spec.

My firewall at works prevents me from finding any site to which derive the answer and not look stupid so:

What is BOA gear?

Bind on Account gear that "levels" with your character so it always has Blue quality stats. It requires you have an 80 already though.

 

[Bisnic]

The leveling is taking a little longer now that I am 70 (think it went from like 900k to 1.5 million xp). I might go all shadow and give the dungeons a break so I can grind out the quests faster, hopefully find a way to make 1000g so I can dual spec.

My firewall at works prevents me from finding any site to which derive the answer and not look stupid so:

What is BOA gear?

BOA = Bind on account.

It's gear that you buy at lvl 80 with the emblems that drops from the 5 mans and raids. You can send them to your alts at lvl 1 and the gear's stats will improve with you as you lvl up. They are about as good as a blue item for your lvl range, or even better. You can buy shoulders & chest (which also give 10% extra XP from quests and mobs each), a weapon, or trinkets that give either 2% health or mana everytime you kill something.

So, you understand that 2 trinkets that gives 4% mana back everytime i kill something, and Spirit Tap increases mana regeneration by a lot everytime i kill something, if i only cast 4 spells, i'll never go out of mana. :lol

 

[Dunlop]

thanks for the info

 

[Deputy Moonman]

The toughest part of Oculus period are just those stupid whelps at the very beginning, that's it.

lol this is what I tell everyone

 

[PhoenixDark]

Aye, as a tank I feel guilty on the blood prince and saurfang fights just kind of standing there hitting taunt every once in a while or moving a few steps to the side.

Pretty much. Deathwhisper is interesting due to the adds, but as long as melee dps isn't stupid it's still easy.

I want to kite the adds on Rotface next time we try it. Doesn't seem hard, but it looks more interesting than standing still on boss.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

The toughest part of Oculus period are just those stupid whelps at the very beginning, that's it.

In my battlegroup the toughest part is simply the fact that nobody knows what to do or where to go in there, but nobody wants to admit it because people will call them a noob. I've had several people repeatedly state that they had fully cleared Oculus on the toon they were playing only to have the achievement pop up at the end and them quickly drop the group.

 

[Angry Grimace]

There's nothing tough about Oculus at all. Period. Frankly, it wasn't really tough to begin with. It was just annoying, because the Drakes at the beginning had huge aggro radii and there were like 1395710923809128490 of them.

 

[KernelPanic]

Occulus is just plain annoying -- it's not fun at all, and it's barely worth the extra emblems and the drake.

I prefer running something short and easy like AN, get my frost emblems for the day and be done with it.

I am so bored of the 5-mans that I just want my frost emblems, and doing Occulus doesn't make it any more fun, especially considering most people have no idea what to do in there.

Another problem is people wanting to do the achievements (of which there are several).

 

[Yaweee]

I prefer running something short and easy like AN, get my frost emblems for the day and be done with it.

I expect many people to stop doing their dailies soon enough. 14 badges per week stops being so important when you're getting 52 per week raiding, you don't need a continuing supply of badges due to how the armor tokens merely "upgrade" the 251/264 set pieces, and Primordial Saronites are already dropping fast in price.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I expect many people to stop doing their dailies soon enough. 14 badges per week stops being so important when you're getting 52 per week raiding, you don't need a continuing supply of badges due to how the armor tokens merely "upgrade" the 251/264 set pieces, and Primordial Saronites are already dropping fast in price.

I've already stopped mine. I'd rather be playing my mage than grinding badges in instances I was bored with 6 months ago. Got my permanent water elemental a few minutes ago!

 

[Sullen]

I'm just calling bullshit on the "Plagueworks are pugged on my server" guy entirely. My guess is he's mostly just trying to show off by implying that he thinks Plagueworks is easy.

I don't wanna be a dick, but I am on Illidan, same as Yacobod, and as he confirmed, it is pug'd on our server.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I don't mind occulus

I've had wow since vanilla and this is the first time that I've gotten full tier gear, gotten full epic gear, and ran every 5 man dungeon on heroic multiple times. Quite a fun experience. I don't see how doing random 5 man heroics for the 2 frost emblems is annoying at all. 30 mins of your time on average, cake run, and you're helping other people gear up.

Alas, trying to find a guild to raid with is getting hard and I need to focus on school anyway.

I might quit again. Oh well, I had fun.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't wanna be a dick, but I am on Illidan, same as Yacobod, and as he confirmed, it is pug'd on our server.

A pick up group walking into the place =/= Rotface/Festergut much less Prof. Putricide down, and you claimed the entire place is easy. The part where you claimed the whole of hte Plagueworks is easy and you don't understand why people have trouble with it is why I'm assuming you're just edick waggling. Not to mention the fact that I have my doubts what he's talking about is a "PUG" at all. It sounds like you're just organizing it with say 8 people from high-end guilds and filling in like 2 slots with someone's alt from another high end guild. That's not what "puggable" means. Puggable implies a bunch of random people who don't know each other can down it.

I dunno. It was just a douchey thing to lay it out like, "this is so easy," when in the appropriate gear, it really isn't.

 

[Weenerz]

We had Flame Leviathan as our weekly this week, it was great not having to have any class roles, by Sunday, I stopped seeing spam at all for doing the weekly.

 

[Angry Grimace]

We had Flame Leviathan as our weekly this week, it was great not having to have any class roles, by Sunday, I stopped seeing spam at all for doing the weekly.

Yours don't reset on Saturday?

I'm not sure what's up with it, but on our server, everyone's weekly gets reset on Saturday morning, so you get a lot of spam for 25m versions of various raids by then (since obviously, you can't do it twice on one mode).

It doesn't *always* do this though, so perhaps it's a bug?

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I just did an 8 minute Old Kingdom where the tank tried to rush so hard he skipped trash that walked into us moments later, meaning we probably could have been in and out in 7 if he'd known what he was doing. We almost wiped on two separate occasions because of this; I can't remember the last time I needed Divine Hymn in a 5 man but it got a workout today!

At the end my guildie says "good run" out of politeness. The tank ninja-ed the orb, said "not really" and dropped the group :lol

Anyway, it got me thinking about cross-realm friend/ignore lists. I have a feeling that, as good an idea as the ignore list seems in principle, it could totally destroy the matchmaking speed that everyone is seeing in LFG now. It'd be like trying to arrange a party, and everyone is everyone else's ex.

 

[Xabora]

*flap* *flap* *flap*

I bring, patch notes!

Dungeon and Raid

Icecrown Citadel

The Frostwing Halls, the last stronghold of the Lich King and the Scourge, has been added, but the Ashen Verdict must break down the door first.

(Looks like this means it's added this week but we have to wait to fight Arthas?)

Halls of Stone

Brann Bronzebeard has been working out, so he'll run faster during the escort event.

Forge of Souls

Devourer of Souls will cast Mirrored Soul less often.
Trash mob Spell Reflect abilities have been changed. It now has a casting time, and will proc only twice at a rate of 75% instead of 100%

Nexus

Anomalus will create rifts only once.

Ahn’Kahet: Old Kingdom

Elder Nadox’s Ahn’kahar Guardian will only spawn once.
Jedoga Shadowseeker will initiate her volunteer phase only once.
Some trash packs between Nadox and Jedoga have been reduced/removed.

Pit of Saron

Dead players are now able to re-enter the instance when the Ick/Krick and Forgemaster Garfrost encounters are active.

Utgarde Pinnacle

Players can bring down Skadi's drake using only three harpoons, down from five.
Svala Sorrowgrave only casts Ritual of the Sword once, down from thrice.

Vault of Archavon

Toravon the Icewatcher has been added to the dungeon! He awaits your challenge on 10- and 25-player difficulties.

Violet Hold

Portals will open faster after Portal Guardians are killed.

Battleground and Arena
Arena
Arena Season 8 has started and new rewards are available!

Druid
Balance
Earth and Moon: Now increases spell damage by 2/4/6% for the druid, Up from 1/2/3%.

Shaman
Elemental
Shamanism: Now increases your Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning spell damage by 4/8/12/16/20% (up from 3/6/9/12/15%) and your Lava Burst spell damage by 5/10/15/20/25% (up from 4/8/12/16/20%).


Warlock
Affliction
Shadow Embrace: Now stacks 3 times. Healing reduction effect reduced to 2/4/8/10% (down from 3/6/9/12/15%).
Demonology
Demonic Pact: This talent now increases your spell damage by 2/4/6/8/10% (up from 1/2/3/4/5%). The benefit to party/raid members remains unchanged.
Destruction
Conflagrate: Periodic Spell damage increased to 40% (Up from 20%)
Empowered Imp: Damage done by imp increased to 10/20/30% (Up from 5/10/15%)
Improved Shadow Bolt: Now increases Shadow Bolt damage 2/4/6/8/10% (Up from 1/2/3/4/5%)

Warrior
Protection
Concussion Blow : Damage decreased by 50%. Threat level remains unchanged.
Devastate: Damage increased by 20%.
Shield Slam: Damage modifier from block value decreased, and scales worse at low block value levels. Players in high-end gear shouldn't notice the change. In addition, threat generated by Shield Slam has been increased by 30%.
Warbringer: Now only affects Intervene.

Player Interface
Party leader role renamed (don't know to what).

Item
The Ashen Verdict now offers a Strength-based ring for classes that benefit from it.
Tier 10 Elemental Shaman set bonus: Redesigned. Whenever Lava burst successfully damages the target, it increases the duration of Flame Shock by 6 sec.

Not mine, found on another site.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.co.kr/news/update/patch/patch_3p32.html?pnv=1

 

[Cipherr]

I don't wanna be a dick, but I am on Illidan, same as Yacobod, and as he confirmed, it is pug'd on our server.

I know all about Illidan and its stable of skilled players and Im still calling BULLSHIT if your talking 25 man.

10m is different, but your not seeing pugs down 25 man Putricide yet. No way in hell.

 

[GasProblem]

I played on a RP server for the first time today, and it actually was pretty fun. With my Gnome, I helped a Dwarf find his lost rifle, and when I wanted to take the Deeprun Tram I saw a group of ~20 naked male humans doing extra militairy training, and every time one complained they had to go on for an extra 10 minutes :lol

And when I made a Human, a Dwarf wanted to show me something, so I hitched a ride on his Mammoth. He dropped me off at a Defias Bandit Camped and I died :'( He did give me 50g though Goldshire is pretty much a whorehouse, with all the Nelfs dancing on the bar and random fist fights.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I know all about Illidan and its stable of skilled players and Im still calling BULLSHIT if your talking 25 man.

10m is different, but your not seeing pugs down 25 man Putricide yet. No way in hell.

I think he's saying 10m. But even then, I doubt many true pugs are doing 10m Putricide successfully, either.

It's just the context of his original claim which is irritating. We had just been talking about how in appropriate gear levels, it's not easy at all. It's like saying "Algalon is easy" because you ripped through it in ICC gear. Overgearing an encounter matters.

Also, those patch "notes" look kind of suspect. It looks more like someone just summarized every single change that the developers mentioned by just subscribing to a "blue post tracker." I mean, it says, "Warbringer: Now only affects Intervene" which is just wrong. That verbiage would literally devalue the talent to worthless.

 

[Xabora]

Also, those patch "notes" look kind of suspect. It looks more like someone just summarized every single change that the developers mentioned by just subscribing to a "blue post tracker." I mean, it says, "Warbringer: Now only affects Intervene" which is just wrong. That verbiage would literally devalue the talent to worthless.

Its translated from the WoW Korean site.
Although having someone else give a crack at it may help.

EDIT:
http://www.wow.com/2010/01/25/patch-3-3-2-patch-notes-on-official-korean-wow-site/

 

[Angry Grimace]

Its translated from the WoW Korean site.
Although having someone else give a crack at it may help.

Yeah, I'll bust out my Korean dictionary

 

[Yaweee]

I can't see the Elemental buffs being enough to get us out of last place, but it is better than nothing. Also disheartened to see the 2pc t10 bonus remains the same. It's essentially worthless on fights shorter than 90 seconds, and even for longer fights it is only a fraction as good as the mage 2pc bonus.

Hopefully there are changes to items and procs, and the such? Nibelung and the apparently broken caster Verdict ring, namely.

 

[Bisnic]

I hope the Warbringer change "Now only affect Intervene" is only about the removal of impairing effects. If I can't use Charge in Defensive Stance anymore, my tank is gonna cry.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I hope the Warbringer change "Now only affect Intervene" is only about the removal of impairing effects. If I can't use Charge in Defensive Stance anymore, my tank is gonna cry.

Charge and Intercept are like the sold advantage Warriors have in Protection spec over Paladins/DKs, so I can't imagine they are really removing that capability. There's already very few reasons to bring anything other than 3 Paladins as-is.

 

[JWong]

Holy mother of music!

This is one EPIC track!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EdyM9ciarY

May God grant me the lyrics!

 

[C.Dark.DN]

joined a similar (mostly 232) geared guild wanting to start 10/25 toc.

since it was released 4 months before icc, realistically, if this guild wanted to progress by itself, how many months of gearing up in toc would it take?

 

[Tamanon]

joined a similar (mostly 232) geared guild wanting to start 10/25 toc.

since it was released 4 months before icc, realistically, if this guild wanted to progress by itself, how many months of gearing up in toc would it take?

If you're 232-geared you can run ICC 10 no problem. If you're 245, you can do ICC 25.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

nvm

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Nexus

Anomalus will create rifts only once.

:lol

I can understand a lot of the dungeon nerfs that they've made but does Nexus really need to be made any easier? Maybe they want more people to get the achievement there or something but it's already pretty easy with strong heals.