Support NeoGAF

[Dunlop]

Thanks,

I figure I need a lot more runs once I hit 80 to get my gear higher to hit some raids.

I see what the bitching about Gear Score is now, I've seen some shit gear that drops that has a higher GS than more usefull gear.

I have almost every dungeon drop for my lvl, being a cloth wearing healer is easymode to get geared up in runs, with 10 second qeue times and usually no competetion. I'm at like 2600 now, with 2 lvls to go I need to suddenly get some crazy drops to hit the 4-5k.

 

[joelseph]

FINALLY GOT MY SOLACE. GOD DAMN.

 

[Flib]

Thanks,

I figure I need a lot more runs once I hit 80 to get my gear higher to hit some raids.

I see what the bitching about Gear Score is now, I've seen some shit gear that drops that has a higher GS than more usefull gear.

I have almost every dungeon drop for my lvl, being a cloth wearing healer is easymode to get geared up in runs, with 10 second qeue times and usually no competetion. I'm at like 2600 now, with 2 lvls to go I need to suddenly get some crazy drops to hit the 4-5k.

The new level 80 dungeons:

Trial of the Champion: drops level 200 gear on normal, level 219 on heroic
The Frozen Halls (Forge of Souls, Pit of Saron, Halls of Reflection): drop level 219 gear on normal, level 232 on heroic.

These are the fastest way to gear up.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I hardly doubt the Random Dungeon system meant to be some form of gambling wherein I bet against getting a crummy tank in a dungeon with a razor-thin margin of error, and am rewarded if I bet properly or punished mercilessly if I bet incorrectly.

Uh, yes it is. Are you unfamiliar with the PUG stereotypes and bingo card jokes? You don't understand why you have the 5% health/damage/healing "Luck of the Draw" buff to help mitigate your potential anger at your fate?

Also, there is a "Vote Kick" option.

You're also greatly overrating Halls of Reflection's difficulty. There is no razor-thin margin of error. It is a difficult dungeon, but I haven't wiped in it since the opening week.

It's simply meant to let non-random players select their dungeon and get a full group.

Exactly. Non-random players that want to do Halls of Reflection, the dungeon you're complaining about having to do when you choose to do any random dungeon.

The badges are there because otherwise players would just repeatedly burn through the dungeons with the best badges:time ratio, leaving anyone that wants to do everything else out in the cold.

In a perfect scenario, they are there to reward you for filling holes in groups for non-random players. But the way you keep ranting about getting Halls of Reflection, you're acting like you don't understand this. You're behaving like your Frosts are entitled to you and that you should be able to get them by randomly doing only the easy heroics.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

FINALLY GOT MY SOLACE. GOD DAMN.

Grats! Still the best healing trinket before late ICC25.

 

[border]

Most of the mobs in there will down someone in cloth almost instantly, so I'd argue that there isn't a lot of room for error (particularly when the tank is eating kidney shots).

You kick a bad tank or healer when you actually want to find someone else and finish the dungeon. If HoR goes poorly you might as well just quit, because in the time it takes to repeat all the content that you already completed you might as well just start something new rather than wait around for another tank that might be undergeared or not capable. Nobody that's just running for badges actually wants to do the dungeon because the risk/reward proposition is terrible. Huge extra risk, no extra reward.

I'm sure there were people willing to make exactly the same argument about Occulus three months ago ("It's easy -- just stop dying hur hur"). At some point Blizzard will recognize the issue and either ease up on the risk or increase the reward (extra badges/gems in the chest at the end or whatever). I suspect they'll just make it possible to resume play from whatever wave you wiped on, rather than this nonsense where a bad random fear can wipe the group and force you to replay 4 waves all over again. I think normal mode already does it that way actually.

I don't think I'm entitled to badges, but I just want to have a good time playing. Heroic HoR isn't any fun.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Heroic HoR isn't any fun.

Heroic HoR and Pit of Saron are the only fun dungeons anymore.

Blizzard doesn't have to increase the reward, because HoR drops 232 epics and that is the reward compared to the 200 blues and epics that drop everywhere else.

I feel like you're trying to argue that this new content should be as easy as the other year-old content that everyone has outgeared and exhausted. HoR seems perfectly tuned to me. It's a rush every time because it's one of the two dungeons available that actually offer any difficulty at all. You just want guaranteed easy emblem farming when you join a queue.

Most of the mobs in there will down someone in cloth almost instantly

I'm cloth. This isn't true.

Even if it were true, that's how it should be.

 

[sykoex]

So I downed Toravon 10-man with a pug on my newly leveled mage, one shotted since everyone else in the group was so geared. Doing fights as range DPS is pretty interesting, Blizz seems to give them a lil more responsibility in fights aside from just blasting the main boss.

 

[border]

Except I don't think it should be as easy as everything else -- I just don't think that failure on the difficult parts should force you to repeatedly tread through the trivial shit again and again. That's not a challenge as much as it is a timesink.

Blizzard doesn't have to increase the reward, because HoR drops 232 epics

Except that you can buy better or equivalent gear with badges anyway. I can't speak for every class/spec, but my DK is pushing 6K gearscore and isn't wearing anything from HoR....looking at the Armory page now almost everything from the ICC dungeons is out of Pit of Saron. Just looking at the loot tables it seems that most of the items for difficult to fill slots (trinket, offhand, weapon) come from the other ICC instances. For everything else you can buy T9 stuff that comes with a set bonus.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Except I don't think it should be as easy as everything else -- I just don't think that failure on the difficult parts should force you to repeatedly tread through the trivial shit again and again. That's not a challenge as much as it is a timesink.

If you wipe at any point in Violet Hold, you have to re-do the entire thing.

You just want easy emblem farming.

 

[border]

Except that Violet Hold doesn't have any difficult parts; the entire instance is trivial. The largest trash group in VH is 4 mobs and there's time to drink/eat/rez after every pull. The likelihood of a complete wipe is so small at this point that the penalty for doing so can be pretty harsh without ruining the fun.

HoR has groups that number up to 7-8 mobs with no drinking or rezzing at all except after a boss. Resetting everything seems unnecessarily harsh, especially considering that the first encounters are much more difficult to tank for warriors (still the predominant tanking class I believe).

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Except that Violet Hold doesn't have any difficult parts; the entire instance is trivial.

Now it is.

 

[border]

Even in 2008 Violet Hold couldn't have been as unforgiving as HoR, simply because you can rez people that die and there are frequent breaks. I can't recall when I started running it as a tank but even then it was not that hard to get through besides the ethereal boss.

I presume it also says something about the quality of the design when pretty much all the random groups are forced into LoS tomfoolery just to get anywhere.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Even in 2008 Violet Hold couldn't have been as unforgiving as HoR, simply because you can rez people that die and there are frequent breaks. I can't recall when I started running it as a tank but even then it was not that hard to get through besides the ethereal boss.

I presume it also says something about the quality of the design when pretty much all the random groups are forced into LoS tomfoolery just to get anywhere.

It depends how smart your group is. When I ran it on my Retribution paladin, I just CC'd mobs without being asked and it made it a lot easier.

 

[Angry Grimace]

So I downed Toravon 10-man with a pug on my newly leveled mage, one shotted since everyone else in the group was so geared. Doing fights as range DPS is pretty interesting, Blizz seems to give them a lil more responsibility in fights aside from just blasting the main boss.

Blizzard makes up for that by making it ultra annoying; i.e., everything with shitty knockbacks for no real reason.

 

[border]

It depends how smart your group is. When I ran it on my Retribution paladin, I just CC'd mobs without being asked and it made it a lot easier.

Well, if you have classes that can CC the instance is made much easier. Problem is that you don't get to choose your teammates, so returning to the vanilla/BC emphasis on CC kinda messes things up.

 

[Chromax]

Should I bother making Shadow's Edge on my ret pally? I've been buying P. Saronite below the AH price and so far I got 23. I can't help but think getting Bryntroll and then later upgrading to Glorenzelg would save me a lot of gold. I also don't think I'll be getting those 50 frostfire shards to upgrade it anyways...then again I have horrible luck with rolls, just rolled double digit out of 1000 5 times in a row. :lol

 

[Oni Link 666]

Anyone got some tips for Sindragosa's 3rd phase? I just spent about 5 hours wiping on her in 2 different 10 man groups.

I noticed that when you get the 3% crit perfume buff it cut off all autoshots on my hunter. :\ That kind of makes the things totally useless in a party for me. I bought 2 stacks of them too. I farmed a bunch of bracelets doing the Icecrown bombing runs. I was getting like 5 per run.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

I'm kinda upset that they're taking away attempts on normal mode, I thought they'd be around a lot longer.


We got to phase 3 on the Lich King tonight on our last attempt, he's going down easily next week.


It was kinda fun to have a boss taht wasn't just an automatic one shot for once. Hope heroic is hard.

 

[zam]

Anyone got some tips for Sindragosa's 3rd phase? I just spent about 5 hours wiping on her in 2 different 10 man groups.

I noticed that when you get the 3% crit perfume buff it cut off all autoshots on my hunter. :\ That kind of makes the things totally useless in a party for me. I bought 2 stacks of them too. I farmed a bunch of bracelets doing the Icecrown bombing runs. I was getting like 5 per run.

In 10-man we just burned down p3, didn't need to clear the Mystic Buffet stacks. For 25-man, or 10-man without using the "nuke her to hell" tactic, keep an eye of your Chilled to the Bone/Unleashed Magic debuffs, don't let it stack too high. When someone gets Frost beacon, have them run out of the raid so there is noone within 10 yards. We had melee dps clumped up and behind them the ranged and healers. When someone got frost beaconed they would run back and to the right or left, alternating. We had all melee switching on every iceblock, standing behind it to clear the Mystic Buffet stacks, and ranged switching on every other iceblock.

 

[funkmastergeneral]

I'm kinda upset that they're taking away attempts on normal mode, I thought they'd be around a lot longer.


We got to phase 3 on the Lich King tonight on our last attempt, he's going down easily next week.


It was kinda fun to have a boss taht wasn't just an automatic one shot for once. Hope heroic is hard.

Why do you care that they're taking away limited attempts?

 

[KernelPanic]

H HoR was made for pally tanking.

Everyone hides behind the corner, gather em up.. holy wrath and AoE down. Rinse and repeat.

 

[sykoex]

H HoR was made for pally tanking.

Everyone hides behind the corner, gather em up.. holy wrath and AoE down. Rinse and repeat.

I'm a pally tank and for some reason I just can't keep the healer from dying using the corner method. I usually one shot it using the hallway method though. I really wish I could tank it in the corner though to cut down on all the running around I have to do.

 

[yacobod]

H HoR was made for pally tanking.

Everyone hides behind the corner, gather em up.. holy wrath and AoE down. Rinse and repeat.

its not bad with a warrior tank either, i just charge out tclap, shockwave, heroic throw the mage to me, and its pretty easy, never had an issue with it tbh

 

[Dunlop]

That random dungeon finder is genius, I try to log in at least once a day so I can get my 2 emblems in the 30 miutes at most it takes to run a dungeon. I was unable to play last night and was actually annoyed that I lost my 2 for the day

As a priest, anyone have any opinion on what I should be saving them for first? I believe at at like 44-50 now.

At most I will hit 80 by next week


Also concerning BOA items, do they stay as the same item type, i.e if I get a piece of cloth armor, is it only usefull for my caster alts?

 

[Bisnic]

That random dungeon finder is genius, I try to log in at least once a day so I can get my 2 emblems in the 30 miutes at most it takes to run a dungeon. I was unable to play last night and was actually annoyed that I lost my 2 for the day

As a priest, anyone have any opinion on what I should be saving them for first? I believe at at like 44-50 now.

At most I will hit 80 by next week


Also concerning BOA items, do they stay as the same item type, i.e if I get a piece of cloth armor, is it only usefull for my caster alts?

Yes. The only BOA items that changes armor type are the plate and mail ones for warriors/paladins & shamans/hunters, since they use mail & leather before lvl 40.

 

[KernelPanic]

I'm a pally tank and for some reason I just can't keep the healer from dying using the corner method. I usually one shot it using the hallway method though. I really wish I could tank it in the corner though to cut down on all the running around I have to do.

The method works if EVERYONE hides behind the corner until the mobs come and the tank is in control. I usually lay down a consecration by the corner once the adds start coming to help gather em up.

If you miss one, a shackle, fear undead, counterspell etc can help. A smart DK will deathgrip if to you.

If someone is dying then it usually means one of the members left the corner and a hunter mage is standing at range shooting them.

I've done the hallway successfully a few times too but on my battlegroup everyone does the corner and it's a minimum 5 minute argument to convince people to do anything but the corner so I don't bother.

It's the only challenging 5 man left, I am so bored of running the other ones. I never ever get the new heroics on random either, it's always Occulus or UP.

My pally never takes any damage either and is usually low on mana since the healer almost never has to heal me.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Why do you care that they're taking away limited attempts?

Do you really need to ask?

 

[sykoex]

Do you really need to ask?

Considering everything's an "automatic one shot" for him I'm not sure why limited attempts would concern him. :lol It's so true when one of the designers at blizzcon 09 made a comment like 'the players only feel difficulty is at the right level when they can beat it and everyone else can't.'

 

[FlawlessCowboy]

Are there any geared Retadins here that can give me some advice in terms of how to increase my DPS? I'm using CS > Judgement > DS > CS > EX rotation. (I can only pull about 4k on a single target.)

Also, is there any way I can get rid of some of this hit rating I've accrued on my character?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Malfurion&cn=Bloodcursed

 

[funkmastergeneral]

Are there any geared Retadins here that can give me some advice in terms of how to increase my DPS? I'm using CS > Judgement > DS > CS > EX rotation.

Also, is there any way I can get rid of some of this hit rating I've accrued on my character?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Malfurion&cn=Bloodcursed

Just follow Angry Grimace's nemesis's plan of stacking haste 100% of the time!

 

[Angry Grimace]

Just follow Angry Grimace's nemesis's plan of stacking haste 100% of the time!

It's a better stat than Armor Pen.

Are there any geared Retadins here that can give me some advice in terms of how to increase my DPS? I'm using CS > Judgement > DS > CS > EX rotation. (I can only pull about 4k on a single target.)

Also, is there any way I can get rid of some of this hit rating I've accrued on my character?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...cn=Bloodcursed

Replace Mark of Supremacy with Victor's Call. You have 3 Expertise, and you only have 3 because you have a Sword and are human. Expertise is a reasonably valuable stat, less so than undercapping hit, but then again, you have 596 hit rating.

I'm not really sure why you bought Castle Breaker's Battleplate and Malevolent Girdle instead of getting your 2pc. T10 set, either.

 

[Epix]

Are there any geared Retadins here that can give me some advice in terms of how to increase my DPS? I'm using CS > Judgement > DS > CS > EX rotation. (I can only pull about 4k on a single target.)

Also, is there any way I can get rid of some of this hit rating I've accrued on my character?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Malfurion&cn=Bloodcursed

1. Stop equipping gear with hit. If you have any alternative pieces w/o hit on them equip them. You're hit caps at 263. Equipping a lower itemlvl piece that has a another stat other than hit will be a dps increase for you.
2. You're expertise is non-existent. Glyph for Seal of Vengeance (10 exp rating). Start looking for gear with Expertise (removes parry at 25).
3. Enchant your shoulders.
4. Enchant your cloak.
5. Drop the stam gem in your legs and replace with a Nightmare Tear.
6. Drop your +16 crit gem in your boots and replace with +10 STR +10 Crit
7. Drop the 4 points in Divine Intellect and put them in Divinty (not a dps increase but a nice talent).
8. Drop the 2 points in Divine Purpose and put them in Sheath of Light. (Divine Purpose is a PvP talent and you can make a dual spec if you PvP).

Here's my armory for reference. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Proudmoore&cn=Alcapwnd

 

[Macattk15]

We had Lich King at 26% on our best attempt last night in 25 man. Was going great until the OT ran into the raid when he was targetted with Defile which pretty much equaled it expanding to the entire friggen floor.

Raid leader got really pissed off at him. Especially since he isn't the usual OT.

 

[Milpool]

Another pally question, should I be using judge, CS, etc inbetween swings or just as soon as they're ready?

Also, finally got the green proto-drake after a years worth of eggs, and after getting the blue one the other week.

 

[Angry Grimace]

1. Stop equipping gear with hit. If you have any alternative pieces w/o hit on them equip them. You're hit caps at 263. Equipping a lower itemlvl piece that has a another stat other than hit will be a dps increase for you.
2. You're expertise is non-existent. Glyph for Seal of Vengeance (10 exp rating). Start looking for gear with Expertise (removes parry at 25).
3. Enchant your shoulders.
4. Enchant your cloak.
5. Drop the stam gem in your legs and replace with a Nightmare Tear.
6. Drop your +16 crit gem in your boots and replace with +10 STR +10 Crit
7. Drop the 4 points in Divine Intellect and put them in Divinty (not a dps increase but a nice talent).
8. Drop the 2 points in Divine Purpose and put them in Sheath of Light. (Divine Purpose is a PvP talent and you can make a dual spec if you PvP).

Here's my armory for reference. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Proudmoore&cn=Alcapwnd

I hadn't checked his spec....no Sheath of Light? Insanity! The actual talents in Retribution are pretty set. In reality, you need 5/5 Seals of the Pure and 5/5 Divine Strength, and you can blow everything else in Retribution and your DPS will probably be pretty much the same. Divine Intellect sucks because as Retribution, your Intellect isn't going to be more than your base number + 10 from Nightmare Tear. Divinity is a lot better because if you ever happen to Judge Light, or need a heal, it's a nice talent. Since you can no longer get D-Sac with 3.2.2 functionality, it's pretty useless and you can spec into whatever you want.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Another pally question, should I be using judge, CS, etc inbetween swings or just as soon as they're ready?

Also, finally got the green proto-drake after a years worth of eggs, and after getting the blue one the other week.

I don't understand the question - using instant abilities has no effect on your auto-attacks. You should be spamming the buttons the second the game lets you use them.

Which ability you actually use is in reality less important than hitting SOMETHING every available global cooldown, because in reality you'll end up at an open GCD anyways at some point anyways.

 

[Epix]

Another pally question, should I be using judge, CS, etc inbetween swings or just as soon as they're ready?

Also, finally got the green proto-drake after a years worth of eggs, and after getting the blue one the other week.

Follow the FCFS (first-come-first-serve) rotation spamming the highest priority ability that's off CD at all times. So basically, cast whatever you can as soon as it's ready using a priority to decide between two abilities that are both ready.

 

[Milpool]

I don't understand the question - using instant abilities has no effect on your auto-attacks. You should be spamming the buttons the second the game lets you use them.

Which ability you actually use is in reality less important than hitting SOMETHING every available global cooldown, because in reality you'll end up at an open GCD anyways at some point anyways.

Thanks, that's pretty much what I was wondering since I've read conflicting things.

 

[winnarps]

We had Lich King at 26% on our best attempt last night in 25 man. Was going great until the OT ran into the raid when he was targetted with Defile which pretty much equaled it expanding to the entire friggen floor.

Raid leader got really pissed off at him. Especially since he isn't the usual OT.

Defile expansion is hilarious. Like 3 pulse hits makes it expand to cover the entire platform.

 

[Wrekt]

Thanks, that's pretty much what I was wondering since I've read conflicting things.

Certain abilities reset the timer on your weapon swing, such as Warrior's Slam ability. Pallies don't have anything like that so feel free to JOHN FUCKING MADDEN on your hotkeys as soon as they light up.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Defile expansion is hilarious. Like 3 pulse hits makes it expand to cover the entire platform.

After a few hits it starts getting too big to outrun.


It really is a very precise fight, there's very little room for error.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Certain abilities reset the timer on your weapon swing, such as Warrior's Slam ability. Pallies don't have anything like that so feel free to JOHN FUCKING MADDEN on your hotkeys as soon as they light up.

Slam doesn't do that anymore. It just suspends the timer during cast time.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Why do you care that they're taking away limited attempts?

I'm half and half really.


The elitist in me would like to have killed him when "it was hard" but the who cares in me is grateful that his shitty ass casual guild will actually have a shot at him now.

We're #2 on the server, and we can't even kill Blood Queen Lanathel yet. We have a DK who can't pull down the permafrost on Anub'arak HM and he's consistently wiped us single-handedly on Putricide because he runs right to the slimes, He wasted a full attempt on Blood Queen because his ghoul aggroed by itself. I can't wait for Sindragosa.

And when I call him a dumb motherfucker who's wasting everyone's time, I'm the asshole.

 

[J-Rzez]

Not sure why anyone would complain about the removal of attempts. I though hardmodes were designed for those people. It's not like they've nerfed every fight in there, yet. It will happen, especially in 10-man, as Blizzard really dropped the ball here with tuning.

 

[Wrekt]

Slam doesn't do that anymore. It just suspends the timer during cast time.

Ahh, I haven't played my Warrior since TBC and I barely played him then. My mistake.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Not sure why anyone would complain about the removal of attempts. I though hardmodes were designed for those people. It's not like they've nerfed every fight in there, yet. It will happen, especially in 10-man, as Blizzard really dropped the ball here with tuning.

I think you're right on the 10 man tuning, it's definitely a lot less forgiving than it could have been. I doubt that they'll nerf anything though, my guess is they'll just rely on the Ashen Verdict buff thing to carry everyone across the line. It makes sense that they haven't announced how big it's going to be yet. They're probably going to make it whatever is required to meet their content-exposure quotas.

And when I call him a dumb motherfucker who's wasting everyone's time, I'm the asshole.

Um. No comment.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Um. No comment.

Guy comes into our raid, we spend 4 hours a night in ICC and wastes one of our attempts. Raids are scheduled weeks in advanced, not to mention the amount of effort some people put into learning about the fights, their class, and their role.


I called someone a name on the internet. I think there's a little bit of a difference there champ.

 

[Epix]

Guy comes into our raid, we spend 4 hours a night in ICC and wastes one of our attempts. Raids are scheduled weeks in advanced, not to mention the amount of effort some people put into learning about the fights, their class, and their role.


I called someone a name on the internet. I think there's a little bit of a difference there champ.

Hard to believe a guild of your stature would tolerate such continued failure. Any reason he's not replaced?

 

[hobart]

And when I call him a dumb motherfucker who's wasting everyone's time, I'm the asshole.

Bro... I know EXACTLY how you feel.