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[jim-jam bongs]

Guy comes into our raid, we spend 4 hours a night in ICC and wastes one of our attempts. Raids are scheduled weeks in advanced, not to mention the amount of effort some people put into learning about the fights, their class, and their role.


I called someone a name on the internet. I think there's a little bit of a difference there champ.

NO COMMENT

Dude, part of my job is managing software developers. Sometimes you have a weak link. If you come down hard on them all the time, you're just guaranteeing the link will break, the blame will fall on you for it, and all your shit will come falling down. Whether or not you're an asshole you have a lot to learn about working with a team.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Hard to believe a guild of your stature would tolerate such continued failure. Any reason he's not replaced?

No idea, I have a hard time figuring it out sometimes.

Someone who did half his DPS would be better in my opinion, as long as they didn't completely kill the whole raid.

NO COMMENT

Dude, part of my job is managing software developers. Sometimes you have a weak link. If you come down hard on them all the time, you're just guaranteeing the link will break, the blame will fall on you for it, and all your shit will come falling down. Whether or not you're an asshole you have a lot to learn about working with a team.

Except this isn't a job and this isn't a 'team' this is a guild, not real life. He is replaceable. I just have a hard time figuring out why not.

We're one of two guilds that have kill putricide and dreamwalker, and also one of two that have got to the lich king in ten man. Yet we've never kicked anyone for "being bad".

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Except this isn't a job and this isn't a 'team' this is a guild, not real life. He is replaceable. I just have a hard time figuring out why not.

And judging by this comment, you never will.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

And judging by this comment, you never will.

:lol

Ok there guy, I'm assuming you know everything about high-end guilds and I don't know dick about them.

 

[J-Rzez]

I think you're right on the 10 man tuning, it's definitely a lot less forgiving than it could have been. I doubt that they'll nerf anything though, my guess is they'll just rely on the Ashen Verdict buff thing to carry everyone across the line. It makes sense that they haven't announced how big it's going to be yet. They're probably going to make it whatever is required to meet their content-exposure quotas..

I most certainly agree. They're definitely banking on the raid wide buff to fix their poor tuning. They really need to watch who they let tune these fights for 10-mans. They can't have for example like this time, 245+ geared players as baseline tune for 10-man. I'm actually shocked they admitted to having issues this time, yet of course after they admitted early, they didn't fess up to the later fights which are even worse.

 

[yacobod]

Hard to believe a guild of your stature would tolerate such continued failure. Any reason he's not replaced?

well there is a reason why they havent completed togc and are stuck in the blood wing =D

 

[Angry Grimace]

Not sure why anyone would complain about the removal of attempts. I though hardmodes were designed for those people. It's not like they've nerfed every fight in there, yet. It will happen, especially in 10-man, as Blizzard really dropped the ball here with tuning.

I think it's because the limited attempts mechanic never really worked out all that well.

 

[J-Rzez]

I think it's because the limited attempts mechanic never really worked out all that well.

We all know that was to artificially help milk as much out of this patch as possible. Unless you mean that you just keep wiping until finally RNG goes your way, because if you're a normal 10-man strict guild that's what you need to get Putricide down.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

well there is a reason why they havent completed togc and are stuck in the blood wing =D

Pretty much, and there's a pretty big dropoff after the guild under us. Our server is pretty full of noobs.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The irony here is killing me.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

:lol

Ok there guy, I'm assuming you know everything about high-end guilds and I don't know dick about them.

facepalm.gif

Anyway, it's been amusing to get inside your head for a bit, but I think I'll leave now.

We all know that was to artificially help milk as much out of this patch as possible. Unless you mean that you just keep wiping until finally RNG goes your way, because if you're a normal 10-man strict guild that's what you need to get Putricide down

For many guilds on my server the attempts have basically meant that they're nervous about even going to have a look at those bosses just in case they have a "better" raid available one night later in the week. This way the learning process can begin properly.

 

[Epix]

The 10 man i lead pulled Lich King late last night. The lore is pretty cool from what i could see. Killing him this week

 

[LAUGHTREY]

facepalm.gif

Anyway, it's been amusing to get inside your head for a bit, but I think I'll leave now.

It's been amusing watching you attempt to tell me how I'm wrong about my raids when you've no idea how ours are run.

Later.

 

[J-Rzez]

For many guilds on my server the attempts have basically meant that they're nervous about even going to have a look at those bosses just in case they have a "better" raid available one night later in the week. This way the learning process can begin properly.

To be completely honest, there really isn't a "learning process" here as it seems. I'm not the best, but some of my guildies are actually "the best" WoW players I have ever played with. They're the first time I was like, "wow, there is a difference with skilled people in the game after all". We've got the mechanics down. It's just now hoping we have RNG on our side that he doesn't throw a Goo and puddle on us crashing on the slime target, or vials too, so we don't have to wipe due to losing 2-3 players instantly. There's nothing you can do to fight this really. Either we have the worst luck ever as it's been happening for weeks, or the fight isn't tuned right. I'm guessing the tuned part. You just need to be over-geared or just incredibly lucky.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It's been amusing watching you attempt to tell me how I'm wrong about my raids when you've no idea how ours are run.

Later.

Meh, we've got a pretty good idea by now. I don't know what you guys were expecting after the trollerific "I'm mad they are removing limited attempts" post (followed by a baffling, seemingly, apparently contradictory "we can't down the Blood Queen" statement).

I wonder what the new Deathchargers are for....maybe a random Frosty Treasures random reward? Not that I've summoned my Deathcharger, basically ever. I rarely use my Zebra, and more likely will use my Rivendare mount. It's not Ashes of Al'ar rare, but it's one of the few really grindy things I ever bothered to get.

 

[Xabora]

This is a neat little addon. D:
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/icon-hell.aspx

 

[jim-jam bongs]

To be completely honest, there really isn't a "learning process" here as it seems. I'm not the best, but some of my guildies are actually "the best" WoW players I have ever played with. They're the first time I was like, "wow, there is a difference with skilled people in the game after all". We've got the mechanics down. It's just now hoping we have RNG on our side that he doesn't throw a Goo and puddle on us crashing on the slime target, or vials too, so we don't have to wipe due to losing 2-3 players instantly. There's nothing you can do to fight this really. Either we have the worst luck ever as it's been happening for weeks, or the fight isn't tuned right. I'm guessing the tuned part. You just need to be over-geared or just incredibly lucky.

I reckon it's probably both, to be honest. We're a 25 man guild, so we should be overgeared for 10 man, and we occasionally just get insta-wiped because the dice fall in a particular way. Like I said a few pages back, the thing that really annoys me about it is that I can rarely see an obvious "do this next time" tactic to add to our strat. Frustrating.

 

[J-Rzez]

I wonder what the new Deathchargers are for....maybe a random Frosty Treasures random reward? Not that I've summoned my Deathcharger, basically ever. I rarely use my Zebra, and more likely will use my Rivendare mount. It's not Ashes of Al'ar rare, but it's one of the few really grindy things I ever bothered to get.

You mean the one's they made with the use of the "paint bucket" from MS-paint? No idea. But possibly, or it'll be random loot from the LK. Or, something from an "upcoming" event pre-xpac I'd imagine.

I reckon it's probably both, to be honest. We're a 25 man guild, so we should be overgeared for 10 man, and we occasionally just get insta-wiped because the dice fall in a particular way. Like I said a few pages back, the thing that really annoys me about it is that I can rarely see an obvious "do this next time" tactic to add to our strat. Frustrating.

Agreed.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Meh, we've got a pretty good idea by now. I don't know what you guys were expecting after the trollerific "I'm mad they are removing limited attempts" post (followed by a baffling, seemingly, apparently contradictory "we can't down the Blood Queen" statement).

Yes, because we can't kill BQL means I want them to remove attempts.


That's exactly right.


You're a genius.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yes, because we can't kill BQL means I want them to remove attempts.


That's exactly right.


You're a genius.

Don't get all butthurt again because you're incapable of following the very obvious logic without having it explained.

 

[Epix]

my realm is still down....

 

[J-Rzez]

my realm is still down....

The way I honestly look at it anymore is if the servers are up on time on Tuesdays, it's a pleasant surprise. I usually expect them up around 3-4hrs later than "expected" on their part. This doesn't bode well for my raid tonight which won't drop my trinket and cloak anyways. :lol

Amazing that we still have to deal with this after years already.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The way I honestly look at it anymore is if the servers are up on time on Tuesdays, it's a pleasant surprise. I usually expect them up around 3-4hrs later than "expected" on their part. This doesn't bode well for my raid tonight which won't drop my trinket and cloak anyways. :lol

Amazing that we still have to deal with this after years already.

I picked up both of those in consecutive weeks.

There's literally nothing that drops off of the Spire I can even use. I should just bring my Paladin in for attempts, although I can at least use the Frost badges.

I don't know though. I was considering going for 4 pc. T10, but I have to balance whether this content is really going to last that long before I stop playing. Once we down the Lich King, I'm pretty likely to just stop giving a fuck.

 

[funkmastergeneral]

seems weird that they're having so many problems during normal maintenance.

 

[J-Rzez]

I picked up both of those in consecutive weeks.

There's literally nothing that drops off of the Spire I can even use. I should just bring my Paladin in for attempts, although I can at least use the Frost badges.

I don't know though. I was considering going for 4 pc. T10, but I have to balance whether this content is really going to last that long before I stop playing. Once we down the Lich King, I'm pretty likely to just stop giving a fuck.

Eh, I'll just keep playing long enough to fully gear out my DK. This means getting Shadow's Edge, 4pc T10, Crafted/Sanctified legs (VOA), cloak, trinket, and that's that. I may get Shadowmourne though, this 25-man guild seems to have adopted me for whatever reason. :lol

At least we're allowed to have "x"-amount of players above 10-man gear to remain strict.

 

[Angry Grimace]

seems weird that they're having so many problems during normal maintenance.

The problem with hotfixing everything is that sometimes it doesn't work right.

 

[AzureNightmare]

Blizzard fails at maintenance as usual.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Blizzard fails at maintenance as usual.

I wouldn't be surprised if the issue was something like, they put the hotfix in to stop the limited encounter meters from decreasing, which then caused those bosses to never spawn at all or never respawn/etc. That's the kind of shit you risk when you implement changes via hotfix instead of just putting it in the patch from last fucking week.

 

[J-Rzez]

Blizzard fails at maintenance as usual.

They get far too much credit. Of course this time isn't refunded to your account, you lose your money on Auctions, and if you only have set hours to play, you lose there too.

I really-really wish someone would make a competitive MMO already. I'm getting really tired of Blizzard's incapabilities and their lack of respect of their users.

 

[Gravijah]

MX-518 should be here Thursday, woot! But my priest will have to take a backseat leveling wise for a bit, since I'm getting paid 50 bucks to level someone 37-60 in a week.

 

[Angry Grimace]

They get far too much credit. Of course this time isn't refunded to your account, you lose your money on Auctions, and if you only have set hours to play, you lose there too.

I really-really wish someone would make a competitive MMO already. I'm getting really tired of Blizzard's incapabilities and their lack of respect of their users.

I think you're not giving them enough credit.

It's probably a pain in the ass to deal with all those servers. We don't even know what the problem is.

 

[AzureNightmare]

They get far too much credit. Of course this time isn't refunded to your account, you lose your money on Auctions, and if you only have set hours to play, you lose there too.

I really-really wish someone would make a competitive MMO already. I'm getting really tired of Blizzard's incapabilities and their lack of respect of their users.

I think its that they respect their customers too much, but dont realize that they're doing them wrong in the process.

 

[arhra]

Fuckery. 15 attempts left on Sindragosa (one-shotted Putricide and Blood Queen, then spent a while learning Dreamwalker), and we run out of raid time If we'd had another night to work on it, we'd be looking at the Lich King, for sure (probably with like, 3 attempts left or something, but still...).

Still, Dreamwalker was an... interesting fight to learn. Literally our entire raid was dead when she hit full health, with a priest in spirit of redemption form throwing the last few heals. Kinda weird for the pressure to be on the healers rather than the dps to stop us hitting the soft-enrage (really, really wish we'd had a holy pally around for it...)

 

[Epix]

They get far too much credit. Of course this time isn't refunded to your account, you lose your money on Auctions, and if you only have set hours to play, you lose there too.

I really-really wish someone would make a competitive MMO already. I'm getting really tired of Blizzard's incapabilities and their lack of respect of their users.

Seriously? You think there's some kind of Easy button that auto-generates a million lines of perfect code and turns on all the servers and the suits just sit around it laughing maniacally? It's like telling A-Rod he doesn't care enough about the fans to hit 100 homeruns a year. This infrastructure is a huge undertaking. That's why there's no other competitive MMO on the market. No one can replicate this kind of experience.

 

[zam]

WOOOO! Lich King 25 downed (and 3 tries remaining even) http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Talnivarr&cn=Lummox

 

[Angry Grimace]

Fuckery. 15 attempts left on Sindragosa (one-shotted Putricide and Blood Queen, then spent a while learning Dreamwalker), and we run out of raid time If we'd had another night to work on it, we'd be looking at the Lich King, for sure (probably with like, 3 attempts left or something, but still...).

Still, Dreamwalker was an... interesting fight to learn. Literally our entire raid was dead when she hit full health, with a priest in spirit of redemption form throwing the last few heals. Kinda weird for the pressure to be on the healers rather than the dps to stop us hitting the soft-enrage (really, really wish we'd had a holy pally around for it...)

Well, attempts are gone anyways, so it wouldn't matter how many you have now. =P

 

[Angry Grimace]

WOOOO! Lich King 25 downed (and 3 tries remaining even) http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Talnivarr&cn=Lummox

Wow, dude, great job

I laughed a little at this:

Earned the achievement The Frozen Throne (25 player) for 10 points


You earned the same number of achievement points for downing the Lich King-25 in the first week he was available as you did for going to the barber shop.

 

[J-Rzez]

I think its that they respect their customers too much, but dont realize that they're doing them wrong in the process.

That's like the guy that I arrested for punching his wife out cold at McDonalds because he loved her. :lol

I think you're not giving them enough credit.

It's probably a pain in the ass to deal with all those servers. We don't even know what the problem is.

Yeah, but it's easy to point fingers when they've had years of experience under the belts with this stuff. Wasting their money on statues instead of investing it elsewhere can get you to question them as well. Why not use that money to hire more/better talent so you don't have to recycle a new weapon model 4+ times or just recolor a mount? And where's my dance studio!!!

I'm getting pissy now since this is cutting into our raid time as we speak, probably.

 

[Angry Grimace]

That's like the guy that I arrested for punching his wife out cold at McDonalds because he loved her. :lol

You know what they say.....love hurts.

 

[Yaweee]

So my realm is up, I can select my character, the loading bar fills up, then nothing. Stuck. Boourns.

 

[Cipherr]

Not sure why anyone would complain about the removal of attempts. I though hardmodes were designed for those people. It's not like they've nerfed every fight in there, yet. It will happen, especially in 10-man, as Blizzard really dropped the ball here with tuning.

Wait what? Who said anything about removing attempts? The amount goes up every week right? But they arent actually removed afaik.

 

[AzureNightmare]

That's like the guy that I arrested for punching his wife out cold at McDonalds because he loved her. :lol

you know what I meant, asshole.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Wait what? Who said anything about removing attempts? The amount goes up every week right? But they arent actually removed afaik.

Limited attempts are being removed as of today.

After each region's maintenance this week, raids will no longer lose attempts on wipes in Normal mode for Professor Putricide, Blood-Queen Lana'thel, Sindragosa, and the Lich King. There will still be limited attempts in Heroic mode.

We will continue to monitor developments in Icecrown Citadel in the future, especially since the Heroic difficulty has been unlocked by a significant number of raids.

Update Follow up time!

Q: If you extend your raid lockout this week, will you still lose attempts on Normal after the hotfix?
A: No.

Q: If you run completely out of attempts on Heroic, will the wing bosses and Lich King no longer respawn, even if the difficulty is switched to Normal?
A: YES. So leave an attempt left if you wish to kill them on Normal. I'll try and correct this in a future update.

Q: Why is the counter still visible in Normal?
A: The hotfix being applied just stops the counter decrementing, and nothing more.

 

[zam]

Wow, dude, great job

I laughed a little at this:

Earned the achievement The Frozen Throne (25 player) for 10 points


You earned the same number of achievement points for downing the Lich King-25 in the first week he was available as you did for going to the barber shop.

Heh yeah, though I don't really care about the amount of achievement points I have in WoW, just which achievements

 

[funkmastergeneral]

Sweet I can log in!

And then I'm greeted by unplayable lag

 

[Yaweee]

Sweet I can log in!

And then I'm greeted by unplayable lag

And I still hang at the loading screen!

 

[Macattk15]

Yeah. Lag is unplayable here on Stonemaul - US also.

 

[Cipherr]

Limited attempts are being removed as of today.

Crap, well at least hardmodes have them, I suppose its arguable that attempts had no place in normals anyway. That kind of strain should have been placed in heroic modes. Still wish we had pushed last week to the LK and gotten it before they hotfixed it though. Would have been nice to have an achieve dated before the removal.

 

[funkmastergeneral]

Yeah. Lag is unplayable here on Stonemaul - US also.

maybe this is the hardmodes?

 

[Acid08]

Yup I'm stuck at Retrieving Character List screen. Fucking awesome, I really wanted to play too