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[Interfectum]

I never bought into the concept of "Flavor of the month classes." It's not as easy to just reroll as it sounds. Rogue is very fun and unique in PvP and does the most damage in PvE, and still is the least played class.

This might be a ignorant statement on my part but from what I've played of the Rogue class (lvled one to 55) they take a bit more planning to play correctly and there is a bit of risk/reward to their style that can be a challenge. Also of all the classes I've played I've had to research the Rogue the most just to learn how to play them correctly.

Their stealth mechanic makes them unbelievably fun but there seems to be a pretty steep learning curve on how to properly play the class which might turn a lot of WoWers off, IMO.

 

[mclem]

It may not be now, but Putricide had some seriously amazing wipe numbers before the easymode buff went in. And that is very much a fight where a lack of dps will get your raid killed. Stuff needs to go down, dps switches need to be on point and the whole fight was a race before the buff went live and everyone was BiS.

We're at that point *now* with the +10% buff. We got our first BQL kill last week with about ten seconds to spare.

As I said, we're weird.

 

[sykoex]

This might be a ignorant statement on my part but from what I've played of the Rogue class (lvled one to 55) they take a bit more planning to play correctly and there is a bit of risk/reward to their style that can be a challenge. Also of all the classes I've played I've had to research the Rogue the most just to learn how to play them correctly.

Their stealth mechanic makes them unbelievably fun but there seems to be a pretty steep learning curve on how to properly play the class which might turn a lot of WoWers off, IMO.

If you thought playing a rogue was complicated I'm guessing you weren't playing Combat spec. Rogue was the first toon I lvled and looking back I'm really glad I picked it due to the simplicity, which made it a nice jumping off point to other stuff. I remember trying a DK when I got to 55 and being so confused at having to use a different attack for each GCD instead of just being able to spam Sinister Strike due to it having no cooldown.

 

[arhra]

This might be a ignorant statement on my part but from what I've played of the Rogue class (lvled one to 55) they take a bit more planning to play correctly and there is a bit of risk/reward to their style that can be a challenge. Also of all the classes I've played I've had to research the Rogue the most just to learn how to play them correctly.

Their stealth mechanic makes them unbelievably fun but there seems to be a pretty steep learning curve on how to properly play the class which might turn a lot of WoWers off, IMO.

Biggest problem with levelling a rogue these days is that you're just squishy as fuck, and have have absolutely zero ways to reduce your downtime (you're pretty much stuck bandaging/eating frequently to keep your health up).

Every single other class has some variety of self-healing option or options (or a pet tank and a heal they can use on that, in the case of hunters), although in some cases it's learnt relatively late (non-fury warriors don't get anything until Enraged Regeneration at 75, but at least they get to wear plate rather than leather).

The new self-heal finisher they're adding in Cataclysm will make levelling a rogue much less of a chore.

Also, re: lack of FotM rerolls/alts - tell that to all the mid-70s/fresh 80 paladin alts that just about everyone in my guild seems to have right now Log on on a non-raid night, and the guild list is an almost solid wall of pink.

 

[FLEABttn]

non-fury warriors don't get anything until Enraged Regeneration at 75, but at least they get to wear plate rather than leather

If you level a draenei one with herbalism, it's a joke.

But yes, rogue leveling sucks. I've got 5 80's and the rogue was by far the worst to level.

 

[Evlar]

Biggest problem with levelling a rogue these days is that you're just squishy as fuck, and have have absolutely zero ways to reduce your downtime (you're pretty much stuck bandaging/eating frequently to keep your health up).

Every single other class has some variety of self-healing option or options (or a pet tank and a heal they can use on that, in the case of hunters), although in some cases it's learnt relatively late (non-fury warriors don't get anything until Enraged Regeneration at 75, but at least they get to wear plate rather than leather).

The new self-heal finisher they're adding in Cataclysm will make levelling a rogue much less of a chore.

Also, re: lack of FotM rerolls/alts - tell that to all the mid-70s/fresh 80 paladin alts that just about everyone in my guild seems to have right now Log on on a non-raid night, and the guild list is an almost solid wall of pink.

The squishy + no healing problem was what stalled progress on my rogue. My main is a priest who has never been specced into the Shadow tree; I considered that leveling experience less painful than trying to level the rogue.

Granted, I gave up on the rogue some four years ago. I have no clue how things are now.

 

[Interfectum]

If you thought playing a rogue was complicated I'm guessing you weren't playing Combat spec. Rogue was the first toon I lvled and looking back I'm really glad I picked it due to the simplicity, which made it a nice jumping off point to other stuff. I remember trying a DK when I got to 55 and being so confused at having to use a different attack for each GCD instead of just being able to spam Sinister Strike due to it having no cooldown.

Spamming SS is fine in combat spec but getting past that and going into PvP or high level PvE seems a lot more complicated (mastering the art of stunlocking, being able to escape if you fail). Whereas on a DK you don't have to worry about any of that. Get your rotation on 1,2,3,4,5 and jump in. You don't have to run, you don't have to hide, all you have to do is keep the target near you.

Rogues are very squishy and have a pretty crazy risk/reward attached to them which, to me, seems more complex than something like a DK.

Like I said before, I don't know if Rogues get any cool "I win" buttons after 55 or whatever but they just seem to take a bit more finesse than the other classes I've played. Less room to be sloppy, more punishment for mistakes...

 

[Aeris130]

Any seasoned arena players here? Thinking about starting with some 2v2's, but I'm not sure what to do about my gear. Currently my pve setup consists of mostly 264's (armory ahoy). Should I gear up with resi items only despite the drop in iLvl, or just mix some frost-pvp into my pve set?

 

[Rapstah]

I've somehow done "The Struggle Persists" inside the Oculus but I've never stepped foot inside the instance. Huh? I think the objective completed when I beat The Violet Hold Heroic earlier today, but what the hell.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

If you level a draenei one with herbalism, it's a joke.

But yes, rogue leveling sucks. I've got 5 80's and the rogue was by far the worst to level.

Certainly the least rewarding experience I've ever had playing WoW. Rogue was my 1st character from day 1, and it was a complete waste. Has no role at all :lol Much happier with my Warrior and Pala.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The squishy + no healing problem was what stalled progress on my rogue. My main is a priest who has never been specced into the Shadow tree; I considered that leveling experience less painful than trying to level the rogue.

Granted, I gave up on the rogue some four years ago. I have no clue how things are now.

That's because once you get enough spellpower Smite and Holy Fire do decent enough damage.

 

[FLEABttn]

Certainly the least rewarding experience I've ever had playing WoW. Rogue was my 1st character from day 1, and it was a complete waste. Has no role at all :lol Much happier with my Warrior and Pala.

Well, it has a role, theoretically. Top single target DPS.

Not that I've a DPS check so tight in a while that I've felt particularly compelled to go out and recruit one or make mine my main.

(I was a raiding rogue for 4 years)

I'm currently a hunter and that does me more than fine. I'd be incredibly hard pressed to ever do a main rogue again.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Well, it has a role, theoretically. Top single target DPS.

Not that I've a DPS check so tight in a while that I've felt particularly compelled to go out and recruit one or make mine my main.

(I was a raiding rogue for 4 years)

I'm currently a hunter and that does me more than fine. I'd be incredibly hard pressed to ever do a main rogue again.

About the same, and it was the most unsatisfying thing ever. We had about 4/5 good rogues in our guild, but the raid leader would only ever take 2/3 (even in 40 man raids) as he preferred Mage and Hunter DPS.

 

[Retro]

About the same, and it was the most unsatisfying thing ever. We had about 4/5 good rogues in our guild, but the raid leader would only ever take 2/3 (even in 40 man raids) as he preferred Mage and Hunter DPS.

That's because back in the days of 40 mans threat wasn't quite so easy to manage and tanks needed a fuck ton of breathing room if things go wrong. With a rogue, it's literally Boss turns > Rogue dies.

I like the idea behind rogues, but they're far too squishy and it's not exactly easy to jump to them after years of warrior / paladin where you pretty much run up and smash stuff until it falls over. The changes they have in store for cataclysm makes it sound like they'll have a tad more survivability, so I might give them a try.

That's why I like expansions; a chance for every class to be re-done to a point where I am mildly interested in trying them. I've said repeatedly that I'd never play a clothie, but if Blizzard made enough interesting changes I'd honestly consider them.... so far nothing I've seen has made me want to beyond the new mechanic Warlocks will be getting.

 

[Angry Grimace]

That's because back in the days of 40 mans threat wasn't quite so easy to manage and tanks needed a fuck ton of breathing room if things go wrong. With a rogue, it's literally Boss turns > Rogue dies.

I like the idea behind rogues, but they're far too squishy and it's not exactly easy to jump to them after years of warrior / paladin where you pretty much run up and smash stuff until it falls over. The changes they have in store for cataclysm makes it sound like they'll have a tad more survivability, so I might give them a try.

That's why I like expansions; a chance for every class to be re-done to a point where I am mildly interested in trying them. I've said repeatedly that I'd never play a clothie, but if Blizzard made enough interesting changes I'd honestly consider them.... so far nothing I've seen has made me want to beyond the new mechanic Warlocks will be getting.

By the end of Cataclysm, I'll be surprised if I don't have an 85 of everything /facepalm.

My mage just hit 50, and I can almost TASTE the Outlands :lol

It's funny; the XP per level post 60 is so much higher, but it's faster in a way because you don't have to do zone hops beyond the quests designed to send you to a new zone.

I like raiding, but in some ways it's easier to level alts because you can do that whenever you want; I don't really have time to do hardcore raiding schedules...but at the same time I have 6 level 80s and another on the way.

 

[Chris R]

What spec is your mage? If you aren't ice, you might want to consider it until your mage gets past 60. Fire/Arcane builds do damage, but with such low stats, it gets interesting when you first arrive at 58 :lol

 

[Angry Grimace]

What spec is your mage? If you aren't ice, you might want to consider it until your mage gets past 60. Fire/Arcane builds do damage, but with such low stats, it gets interesting when you first arrive at 58 :lol

Fire does more damage than Frost, but I usually am Frost because I can spam Frostbolts for a really long time before running out of mana. Mana slows me down more than damage, even in dungeons, it's just more of a pain in teh ass to have to stop and drink every 3 pulls than to just do less damage as frost.

 

[Flib]

I just read up on the Simian Sphere tonight (had never seen it) after seeing this thread, and I randomly won it in heroic Drak'theron tonight. Weird.

 

[border]

I've said repeatedly that I'd never play a clothie, but if Blizzard made enough interesting changes I'd honestly consider them.... so far nothing I've seen has made me want to beyond the new mechanic Warlocks will be getting.

Really? The warlock mechanic just seems totally dull to me (as someone who already has a warlock). The are kinda hamstrung by the fact that they don't want it to be too overpowered while solo'ing or PVP'ing that its use in a raid setting seems almost inconsequential -- just a few minor DPS bumps in a 5-10 minute fight isn't really gonna cut it.

I guess it will really depend on if and how they plan on regenerating shards mid-fight. I'm expecting to see some talent like "Your Shadowbolt crits have 5% chance of regenerating one Soul Shard" so that you aren't stuck worrying about when and how often you should be consuming shards.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Original Warlocks were just crazy in PVP. There was a guy in our guild back in Original WoW, who's just stand there and press fear and dot everyone. No one could touch him :lol

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

I am a bit confused about the healer roles?

The way I understand it Blizzard wants it to be evened out like this;


Paladin - Best single target healer in the game

Druid - Best HoT healer in the game

Shaman - Best AoE healer in the game

Priest - Best Multiple target healer in the game


Is this a correct summery of what they are trying to do you think?

 

[speedpop]

Basically that's how it will be. Each one is going to have the ability to do a small, mid, heavy heal.. but they'll still retain their own playstyle that seperates them from each other.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I'd add Discipline Priest as best damage stopper too.

 

[Scrow]

Shaman - Best AoE healer in the game

Priest - Best Multiple target healer in the game

isn't that basically the same thing?

 

[Shouta]

isn't that basically the same thing?

Not necessarily. AoE can mean in a single area and anyone who walks in can get healed while multiple-heals could mean hitting different folks in different positions. That's an example though, I don't play Shaman or Priest so I don't know. :lol

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Not necessarily. AoE can mean in a single area and anyone who walks in can get healed while multiple-heals could mean hitting different folks in different positions. That's an example though, I don't play Shaman or Priest so I don't know. :lol

You got it, chain heal and prayer of mending work very different.

 

[Acidote]

Original Warlocks were just crazy in PVP. There was a guy in our guild back in Original WoW, who's just stand there and press fear and dot everyone. No one could touch him :lol

With original I guess you mean after it first got (incredibly) buffed, because at game lauch warlocks were a bunch of crap.

 

[moojito]

I've somehow done "The Struggle Persists" inside the Oculus but I've never stepped foot inside the instance. Huh? I think the objective completed when I beat The Violet Hold Heroic earlier today, but what the hell.

Aye, there are weird glitches like that. I was in nexus heroic with a pug and someone got an AV achievement in the middle of a trash pack!

 

[Alex]

Yeah, Warlocks were busted, useless garbage at launch, so many bugs too. I still remember the Soulstone bug that wiped all of your bonus stamina on resurrect until relog that took them so many months to fix. WoW in general was a huge mess at launch, and was never half as polished as people gave it credit for until BC really took off. Vanilla WoW and modern WoW are so vastly different in terms of polish and response time. It's crazy.

Towards the latter half of Vanilla they really polished up Warlocks though. For PvP they got tough a chunk through BWL and round the time AQ was in full swing they were really strong (just to become USELESS in Naxx 60, but still good in PvP though), I liked to go Destro just for the contrary at the time and it was fun to be able to one-shot full geared PvP Warriors with a Soul Fire back then.

Warlocks in 2.0 but prior to the BC launch was the funniest. In solid gear, a row of DoTs was basically certain doom to anything and the Felguard could solo squisher targets. Especially Mages. Putting a Felguard on a Mage was absolutely hilarious. This whole thing made the Paladins in the LK beta seem tame.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Thanks guys. I love this WoW thread. It pumps out information so fast.


As far as Death Knight goes, what do you think Blizzard will do with them?


Blood will be a tanking tree, but do you think it will focus on Two-Handers? Frost will be for Dual wielding, and Unholy(?)


I love Death Knight, and these changes with the rune system sounds great. I think it's a terrific, powerful and awesome class. My only problem with them is that there is not much diversity going on in the looks department. I get a sense that they all look alike.

 

[-NeoTB1-]

I've had such a love-hate relationship with my Warlock. For all the crap they've been through (and conversely, for all the screams of "omg they're so OP!") it's by far my favorite class. I'm really excited to dive into Cataclysm with mine.

 

[Interfectum]

I've had such a love-hate relationship with my Warlock. For all the crap they've been through (and conversely, for all the screams of "omg they're so OP!") it's by far my favorite class. I'm really excited to dive into Cataclysm with mine.

I just got my Warlock to 80, it's my 3rd one behind my Hunter and Death Knight. I really love the Warlock class. I could delete the other two and not even care.

I'm interesting in trying a healer class at some point, might start one when cataclysm comes out but still at odds with which class I want to heal with. Are priests fun? I ask because I already have all the heirloom items (both trinkets, shoulders, staff, robe) so it would save me from having to get a new heirloom set.

 

[Loxley]

Original Warlocks were just crazy in PVP. There was a guy in our guild back in Original WoW, who's just stand there and press fear and dot everyone. No one could touch him :lol

Oh god don't remind me of how ridiculous Warlocks were back in vanilla ><

It's funny to think how much of a cake-walk they were initially to kill, then 1.6 came along...I do not miss the days of chain-fearing one bit.

People may whine about class imbalance in PvP still, and yeah there almost always has been a "top dog" class/spec in the PvP scene, but to this day no class has ever become so comparatively over-powered as 'Locks were back then. They were just stupid amounts of powerful.

 

[FLEABttn]

That's because back in the days of 40 mans threat wasn't quite so easy to manage and tanks needed a fuck ton of breathing room if things go wrong. With a rogue, it's literally Boss turns > Rogue dies.

I like the idea behind rogues, but they're far too squishy and it's not exactly easy to jump to them after years of warrior / paladin where you pretty much run up and smash stuff until it falls over. The changes they have in store for cataclysm makes it sound like they'll have a tad more survivability, so I might give them a try.

Well, if a rogue was getting aggro in vanilla, it either meant the tank wasn't doing his job or the rogue wasn't doing his. For a rogue, threat management was easy - wait till 5 sunders, vanish once or twice during the fight depending on the length. Didn't even need to feint.

Some of the squishiness went away the more gear you got. The HP certainly never out scaled damage taken but the amount of dodge thrown at rogues was ridiculous. I had something like 47% dodge raid buffed with mostly t2 gear and nothing higher. I'd tanked the last 5% of Vael and all of Ony as a rogue. Not that rogues liked dodge. The ZG shoulder enchant made them create more cry threads than I care to remember.

The squishiness also was something you could kind of overlook because for most of vanilla, rogue damage was head and shoulders above everyone else and you just sort of took that as the trade-off for being awesome. However, the more other classes caught up to rogues in DPS, the less appealing the got because the downsides became a lot more noticeable. Rogues are still top DPS but hunters and paladins are right on their ass, with a lot more survivability. And with the content I do, the few hundred DPS between a rogue and a MM hunter doesn't make me want to personally trade a lot of survivability for a fairly small amount of damage; we'll kill the boss regardless.

The removal of weapon specs for Cataclysm is a huge bonus for rogues, which should make the class a lot more appealing, but there's still arguably a survivability issue if their damage is being matched or very closely matched. But I still don't want to be one anymore. I've got draenei fever anyways.

 

[Interfectum]

However, the more other classes caught up to rogues in DPS, the less appealing the got because the downsides became a lot more noticeable.

Yeah I think that's what ended up killing Rogues in Wrath. They were all about risk/reward but with other DPS classes getting close to a Rogue's DPS output the reward has been diminished. Plus Rogues have always been about single target DPS but most instances in Wrath (besides raid bosses I guess) are all about AoE spamming.

 

[moojito]

The rogues in my guild doing 25k dps on the trash before stinky and precious aren't complaining about aoe!

 

[Angry Grimace]

Not necessarily. AoE can mean in a single area and anyone who walks in can get healed while multiple-heals could mean hitting different folks in different positions. That's an example though, I don't play Shaman or Priest so I don't know. :lol

I don't know though. For most of this expansion, most of the Shaman's I knew griped endlessly about Chain Heal not being worth casting. I can never have said that about Priests and CoH or even PoH. Obviously, Prayer of Mending is the bread and butter heal of Priests of both specs (it's the Priest's most mana efficient heal...even if it heals one target).

 

[Rapstah]

I don't know though. For most of this expansion, most of the Shaman's I knew griped endlessly about Chain Heal not being worth casting. I can never have said that about Priests and CoH or even PoH. Obviously, Prayer of Mending is the bread and butter heal of Priests of both specs (it's the Priest's most mana efficient heal...even if it heals one target).

POM is ridicolous - my mana regen is essentially higher than the cost of it when I'm doing random five-person group quests with a friend. :/

EDIT: Quick question: is there a tidy hotkey-friendly ability bar UI mod that doesn't interfere with my unit frames anywhere? I'm satisfied with Shadowed Unit Frames for that but I can't seem to find anything that organizes my abilities nicely without also modifying the unit frames.

 

[Macattk15]

The rogues in my guild doing 25k dps on the trash before stinky and precious aren't complaining about aoe!

Woooooooooooooo trash dps ...............

Do people really care about trash dps still?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Woooooooooooooo trash dps ...............

Do people really care about trash dps still?

The fact there's no heroic trash mode should say something. It's totally irrelevant. There are times AoE dps is important, but giant packs of non-elite trash mobs whose sole purpose is to inflate your edick isn't one of them :lol

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Oh man, talking about Vanilla WoW just made me remember some of things.

All those BRD runs to farm FR kit and get to the forge to create your tank's kit... only for the tank to hold the guild to ransom and refuse to tank :lol

Our Raid Leader totally flipping out as he was doing a kit check on everyone, and I was dancing about naked inside MC :lol

"ITS A HUNTA WEAPON!" We all used to laugh at this, but than it really did happen during MC. We had ploughed through MC for what seemed like forever, got to the chest, OMG CORE HOUND TOOTH! Only the best Rogue Off Hand in the game.

Hunter Raid Leader claims it without asking anyone. "Its a much better Hunter off hand, than Rogue." All rogues in the guild leave raid. :lol

 

[J-Rzez]

The fact there's no heroic trash mode should say something. It's totally irrelevant. There are times AoE dps is important, but giant packs of non-elite trash mobs whose sole purpose is to inflate your edick isn't one of them :lol

I enjoy doing ~13-15k DPS on LK P1 lol. It helps out too so there's less shit in p1.5 (10man of course, in 10man-ish gear)

I've had such a love-hate relationship with my Warlock. For all the crap they've been through (and conversely, for all the screams of "omg they're so OP!") it's by far my favorite class. I'm really excited to dive into Cataclysm with mine.

Warlock is the only caster class I'll play. Though, I never really play him at all anymore, and it sits in forth on my rotation after DK, Rogue, and Pally.

 

[Jin]

The rogues in my guild doing 25k dps on the trash before stinky and precious aren't complaining about aoe!

I have never seen 25K dps before in my life. How did the rogue do that? Fan of Knives? Was his gear all 277?

 

[Mr Nash]

I joined a quick VoA 10 group on a whim last night, and scored my healing i251 pants for my priest. That's a whole lot less frost emblems for me to worry about so I'm rather pleased about that. Funnily, I got the i245 dps pants in a 25 man run earlier that day, so a bit of a theme gear-wise for me yesterday.

Speaking of dps, what should I be gunning for on the target dummy dps-wise as a shadow priest (self buffed) before giving ICC 10 a shot?

 

[FLEABttn]

I have never seen 25K dps before in my life. How did the rogue do that? Fan of Knives? Was his gear all 277?

Now, I don't know about a rogue, but we had an unholy DK in 251's and lower hit 30k DPS on an AoE trash pack.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Now, I don't know about a rogue, but we had an unholy DK in 251's and lower hit 30k DPS on an AoE trash pack.

It's pretty easy to do, but it's dependant on other factors.

Just get Blood Plague and Frost Fever (glyphed) up on a mob, Pestilence and drop a D&D and you'll do about that much damage (plus pop your ERW and hit couple of Blood Boils).

The part that's dependant is that a) the mobs have to die before the D&D fades (because you can't chain cast them becuase D&D has a cooldown), and all the mobs have to be IN the D&D area, which isn't necessarily in the DPSers control.

 

[Jrmint]

Now, I don't know about a rogue, but we had an unholy DK in 251's and lower hit 30k DPS on an AoE trash pack.

I never really understood boasting about DPS on trash packs. I am sure that same DK does less than a Hunter or Rogue on a fight like Saurfang or Festergut.

I consistently out-dps them on fights like that by a considerable margin as a Hunter.

 

[FLEABttn]

I never really understood boasting about DPS on trash packs.

There isn't and to be fair, he didn't. Our raid leader noticed it spike that high, casually mentioned it, and nobody else said anything.

 

[Alex]

Dunno about boasting, but trash takes time, DPS matters on it

 

[FlawlessCowboy]

Trash dps is a normally a pretty good indication of how well said dps can do on boss fights. At least, that's from my experience.