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Alex

Member
I would imagine most dedicated mages don't give a damn about tanking or healing

I certainly would have! My favorite archetype is healer but my favorite DPS is Mage.

I think it just makes sense for classes with multiple roles to take a bit of a dampener.

No one is going to be able to argue it to you though, you say no one tries, the fuck they haven't :lol That's been done non stop since it became a design goal. Just disagree with it and move on, personally as someone who 99% of the time plays a hybrid marked class, I'm quite fine with it.

I do, however, think that it def does show a clash of the old and new. It should be better explained on creation at the very least.
 

mclem

Member
Sciz said:
Someone give me a plausible scenario for why a pure's inability to change roles is significant, because Ghostcrawler never has.

You're going into a ten-man instance. It has boss fights which require:

1 tank, 2 healers, 7 DPS OR
2 tanks, 3 healers, 5 DPS

The ideal raid will consist of:

1 tank 'pure', 2 healer 'pures', 5 DPS pures, 2 hybrids.

Tank and healer pures don't actually exist, so we're left with:

5 DPS pures, 5 hybrids.

Now, if hybrids did equal damage to pures, that would be ten spots that could be filled with hybrids, while only five spots were available to pures, hybrids have more *potential* to fill raid spots than pures do, therefore there are more raid spots for hybrids.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Alex said:
I certainly would have. :lol My favorite archetype is healer but my favorite DPS is Mage.

I think it just makes sense for classes with multiple roles to take a bit of a dampener.

No one is going to be able to argue it to you though, you say no one tries, the fuck they haven't :lol That's been done non stop since it became a design goal. Just disagree with it and move on, personally as someone who 99% of the time plays a hybrid marked class, I'm quite fine with it.

I do, however, think that it def does show a clash of the old and new. It should be better explained on creation at the very least.
The difference in reality is not that significant.

It's hardly the 40% difference that a Mage and a Shadow Priest would have in Vanilla (which was big enough to make those classes useless)
 
Just finished both Operation: Gnomeregan and Zalazane's Fall on the PTR. I really enjoyed both events though I have to say taking over Echo Isles was pretty badass. The whole quest line leading up to the takeover was well done and made me love trolls even more.
 

Cipherr

Member
edited and removed because I was seriously venting.

So sick of the fucking hybrid pure debate. The shit is the way it is, and has been in the genre forever. Get over it.
 

J-Rzez

Member
Sciz said:
Someone give me a plausible scenario for why a pure's inability to change roles is significant, because Ghostcrawler never has.

Not only "if" someone in your guild can't fulfill "x" role on said night, or had to leave early, the hybrid maybe just an activate away from doing said role, but also "LFM, Healer w/DPS second spec". And the biggest factor that hybrid supporters fail to understand, if you rolled a pure class, a class that can only DPS, and you decide to roll a tank/healer instead, you have to level a new toon. Not to mention if you're doing randoms, you can queue up as a healer/tank, and get an insta-queue while dps has to rot for 15+mins at times.

As my main is a hybrid, I can vouch for this, and nor do I whine that I don't out DPS our rogue.

Tacitus_ said:
You know where your argument is stupid? At the parts where you say feral druids DPS should be gimped because they can a) raid buff (every class, even rogues can do it) b) heal (they'll go oom faster than they can say cat form and they won't heal for shit without SP gear) c) bring pvp balance into pve dps discussion.

If you think that they shouldn't do as much DPS because they have multiple roles, feel fre to think like that. Although I'd still disagree because the playstyles can differ so greatly even with pure classes.

Your argument is stupid because you think playstyles mean anything here. Role vs Role. And, it's also stupid to not think PVP is a big part of WoW, if you like it or not that doesn't matter to you. It matters to many others though, and matters to blizz pushing it as an E-sport.

Enough about the whining from hybrids, more about the dances!
 

Alex

Member
How can anyone not be interested in Cataclysm PvP! Rated BGs will be so, so fun. I'm really looking forward to those and it'll probably take some heat off of musical chairs-esque balancing.

Going to be rocking my Goblin Resto Shaman in those! I didn't even get to see that last BG they added, I quit right as it went up, so that'll be cool too.

I'm really glad there's a new CTF BG, too. That'll be good for competitive stuff. Although when I'm just slumming it with just me and a friend or two, I always liked Eye for the constant fighting.
 

J-Rzez

Member
Alex said:
How can anyone not be interested in Cataclysm PvP! Rated BGs will be so, so fun. I'm really looking forward to those and it'll probably take some heat off of musical chairs-esque balancing.

Going to be rocking my Goblin Resto Shaman in those! I didn't even get to see that last BG they added, I quit right as it went up, so that'll be cool too.

I'm really glad there's a new CTF BG, too. That'll be good for competitive stuff. Although when I'm just slumming it with just me and a friend or two, I always liked Eye for the constant fighting.

Isle of conquest isn't too bad. Much better than Strand. I still enjoy WSG, AB, and Eye as well. Though, it's been an exercise in patience lately as horde has went from winning 90% of the games to losing 90% of them now for some reason. Making it hard to gear up my alts for pvp. :(
 

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
Belfast said:
Yeah, Zalazane's Fall was pretty sweet. <3 Trolls. Also explains how Trolls get Druids.
:O

Guess I'm gonna have to load this shit up then.

Alex said:
How can anyone not be interested in Cataclysm PvP! Rated BGs will be so, so fun. I'm really looking forward to those and it'll probably take some heat off of musical chairs-esque balancing.
Amen to that. I hope to see PVP guilds being brought back.
 
Seriously... Just the whole experience of going through the entire game again, with lots of people in this newly updated world.

And unlike before, as I do my new improved questing, I will from lvl 10 and lvl 15, spice it up with PvP levelling and Dungeon Finder. It's going to be a real treat to 80.

And doing the Guild levelling all next to this...



I hope they will improve the crafting experience as well. Right now, I hardly think that many of the professions are worth the time and effort.
 

J-Rzez

Member
speedpop said:
Amen to that. I hope to see PVP guilds being brought back.

Yep, our guild has made compromises. Half enjoy pvp more than pve, and the other way around. So, we have our raid night(s), and our BG night(s) planned out. Can't wait for it. Arena's going to get a lot more competitive as people in it for the rewards only will be gone, leaving the people who only like it and put in 30hrs a week there.
 

DarkJC

Member
mclem said:
That seems reasonable, but the implied reverse is a bit of a problem; "If there's no use for an extra tank, they'll have to become an inadequate DPSer". That, I have an issue with.

In the end, like you said, the difference isn't that huge. They're by no means inadequate DPS, they just might not be at the very top of the meters. They're still DPS though, and that's all that matters. Hybrid DPS isn't being ignored in favour of pure DPS in raids, and in fact there's been many a raid where the last DPS we get for our raid needs to be a hybrid with a healing OS.

It seems to strike the perfect balance right now.
 

yacobod

Banned
J-Rzez said:
I agree, you should head over there with your posts.

You miss the point entirely here. Druids have 4 specs, in which some talents in the feral tree especially can trickle here and there to be super annoying in PVP. Roots, Cyclones, Mark, Leader of the Pack, Thorns, Boomkin buffs. Consider the multiple buffs brought at the same (mark, thorns, leader), Brez. That class has the most options, most utility. They should be no where near top dps. DPS order, how it should be, based on a real hybrid tax:

Top DPS:
Rogues
Locks
Mages
Hunters

Next:
Wars
DKs
Priests
.
.
Shaman

Then...:
Paladins

Further yet:
Druids.

i find your arguement against druids to be very poor, all your excuses against their dps is bases around complaints of their pvp utility, what does pvp utility have to do with pve dps??

and your dps ranking list is extremely laughable
 

firex

Member
Vigilant Walrus said:
Seriously... Just the whole experience of going through the entire game again, with lots of people in this newly updated world.

And unlike before, as I do my new improved questing, I will from lvl 10 and lvl 15, spice it up with PvP levelling and Dungeon Finder. It's going to be a real treat to 80.

And doing the Guild levelling all next to this...



I hope they will improve the crafting experience as well. Right now, I hardly think that many of the professions are worth the time and effort.
One thing they said is all the armor making professions will get bonus skillups for recipes that use more materials than normal. I think that will at least encourage people to level up crafting by making some of the more powerful items. It also sounds like a lot of recipes will have slightly random stats. Like it might have one fixed stat but then other stats on it will be randomly generated when you craft it.
 

Tacitus_

Member
Skel said:
Yea what reason should hunters be bottom dps of the "pure" classes?

Only class that typically out does me is a rogue.

Because pets = hybrid
not
. Someone actually tried this argument back in TBC.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
switched arcane... wonderful!! went frmo 1.1-1.2K bursting to 1.5-1.6K, to routinely doing 1.5-1.6K and bursting to 3K. even better is with mana gems I am pretty much never oom in battle!!

soloing has been an interesting change though. I am used to frost which I literally NEVER took damage. never once.. well, hardly once. :p Now I am pretty regularly taking at least a hit or two. I will usually AB right after the first hit, or right after the second. still a viable leveling spec at this point, but damn I have no idea how you'd level without AB.

a chick had her 80 pally husband tanking the spider place (AN) and at times I was out-dpsing him on recount.. he would dps around 2.5K while tanking and I was getting some good fights in at 2.8-3K.

I loved frost for 73 levels, but damn.... arcane is really a whole different world.

so as a first time 80 coming up, what's the progression? Heroics at 80 to gear up and earn badges for gear, then move on to Naxx10? How do you go about pugging Naxx10? Is there a viable raid finder, or is it spamming LFG?
 

Rapstah

Member
borghe said:
so as a first time 80 coming up, what's the progression? Heroics at 80 to gear up and earn badges for gear, then move on to Naxx10? How do you go about pugging Naxx10? Is there a viable raid finder, or is it spamming LFG?
The gear you'll get from emblems is actually way better than Naxx gear. The only reason you'd go to Naxx is for the weekly raid quests that sometime lead to there.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
gotcha.. so just keep grabbing emblems (random heroics, heroic pugs, etc) and then raid as it comes. so any instructions on how to go about raiding? My only other experience was vanilla raiding where I was in a raiding guild. I've remained unguilded on this server and unfortunately it's a different server from my old guild.. that one is a bunch or IRL friends, but they are icc25 farming and working on icc25 hard so at this point me going back would be totally a favor and carrying me and whatnot... so I'm looking to cut my own path right now. any suggestions on raiding are welcomed.
 

Door2Dawn

Banned
41035211.jpg


logh.jpg
 

Fularu

Banned
yacobod said:
i find your arguement against druids to be very poor, all your excuses against their dps is bases around complaints of their pvp utility, what does pvp utility have to do with pve dps??

and your dps ranking list is extremely laughable
He's an idiot from a terrible guild and probably blows too. Don't mind him. I mean just look at the list.. Guy is stuck in vanilla
 

Dina

Member
borghe said:
gotcha.. so just keep grabbing emblems (random heroics, heroic pugs, etc) and then raid as it comes. so any instructions on how to go about raiding? My only other experience was vanilla raiding where I was in a raiding guild. I've remained unguilded on this server and unfortunately it's a different server from my old guild.. that one is a bunch or IRL friends, but they are icc25 farming and working on icc25 hard so at this point me going back would be totally a favor and carrying me and whatnot... so I'm looking to cut my own path right now. any suggestions on raiding are welcomed.

Seeing as I was a new 80 3 weeks ago and now on 5500gs, here is what I would do.

First off, run instances till your eyes bleed. Triumph is all you will need. All your T9 items drop here, but some off-parts from Triumph are better. In my resto druid case, T9 isn't all that great, so I got the shoulders and the head from Triumph badges. The trinkets and idols/relics/etc from Triumph are also very good. Then, save up frost badges in the meantime and buy something good with it. The belts and the trinkets are awesome.

Check the loot-tables of Trial of the Champion, Pit of Saron, Forge of Souls and Halls of Reflection for good 5-man loot. These are newer instances (which you cannot do as a fresh 80, it required a certain gear lvl), but drop some very good parts.

Do VoA every week and pray for a drop. Join a Toc10 raid and hope for a drop. PvP in the off-hours and buy wrathful gear (which can be good in pve and gives a shit-ton of Gearscore). Getting your GS into the 5000 range is important, is it there that you'll be able to join ToC raids, and ICC with a GS of 5500.
 

yacobod

Banned
borghe said:
so as a first time 80 coming up, what's the progression? Heroics at 80 to gear up and earn badges for gear, then move on to Naxx10? How do you go about pugging Naxx10? Is there a viable raid finder, or is it spamming LFG?

pretty much just do heroics when you hit 80, get a suit of 232 tier 9 and w/e off piece badge items you need, then join pug TOC, VoA, and ICC runs, do the weekly raid quest as well

the gear you get from heroics and badges are of higher item level then from naxx10/naxx25/os/and ulduar
 
Dina said:
Do VoA every week and pray for a drop. Join a Toc10 raid and hope for a drop. PvP in the off-hours and buy wrathful gear (which can be good in pve and gives a shit-ton of Gearscore). Getting your GS into the 5000 range is important, is it there that you'll be able to join ToC raids, and ICC with a GS of 5500.

This is exactly why gearscore is so shitty. Sure, you have a 5000+ GS, but you're raiding ICC with PvP gear and your emphasis is on an imaginary number and not on stats that will actually prove useful.

If you want to get into ICC and ToC, join a guild. Contribute, don't be an ass and be willing to learn. Don't concentrate on gearscore (delete the mod) and read places like elitist jerks to find out what your class actually needs in terms of stats. Then go after the best pieces for those. MMO-Champion has nice loot lists sorted by patch on their site. It's a good place to look over when hunting for your next upgrade.
 

J-Rzez

Member
yacobod said:
i find your arguement against druids to be very poor, all your excuses against their dps is bases around complaints of their pvp utility, what does pvp utility have to do with pve dps??

and your dps ranking list is extremely laughable

No... if you read my other posts, which I didn't think I have to repeat myself every time, I said how having more specs at your disposal is advantageous in PVE. To sum it up: Pure - One role. Hybrids - Many. You can switch roles on the fly for x situation, and I'm not posting all those situations again, look at what I said. And my DPS ranking is a tier at a time, meaning they all should do the same DPS within the tiers, naturally dps will differ based on encounter mechanics.


Fularu said:
He's an idiot from a terrible guild and probably blows too. Don't mind him. I mean just look at the list.. Guy is stuck in vanilla

:lol You mad hybrid?

GTFO and go back to the WoW forums where you belong with shit posts like that. You don't know me, my guild progression, nor my skill. Baseless assumptions on this proves you're a moron, and somehow got lost wandering away from the official WoW forums.
 

J-Rzez

Member
speedpop said:
So much venom and hate.

They're mad, that's all. Hybrids have always wanted to be just as good as pures, and as they got more of a taste of it in Wrath, they're hungrier than ever. They don't understand how much of a "buff" it is to have rolled a class that can Tank, DPS, or Heal opposed to a pure that would have to roll another class to do the same, thus taking much more time.

That is why they're penalized, and thankfully, even Ghost Crawler isn't that slow to realize this.

Just because I know it makes them mad, my MAIN is a HYBRID, and I accept that pures should do more DPS than me. It's common sense.

borghe said:
gotcha.. so just keep grabbing emblems (random heroics, heroic pugs, etc) and then raid as it comes. so any instructions on how to go about raiding? My only other experience was vanilla raiding where I was in a raiding guild. I've remained unguilded on this server and unfortunately it's a different server from my old guild.. that one is a bunch or IRL friends, but they are icc25 farming and working on icc25 hard so at this point me going back would be totally a favor and carrying me and whatnot... so I'm looking to cut my own path right now. any suggestions on raiding are welcomed.

Well, at first ding of 80, you may want to look into "Normal ToC/PoS/HoR/FoS" as you probably won't be able to queue up for them as your internal "gearscore" maybe too low. Doing those on normal though will get you some 219ilvl gear, and will open up the Heroic versions which you'll probably get your weapons from mainly to go into the raids with as they're the best you'll get more easily than trying to find a Ulduar run.

Pugs really aren't that bad once you get your gear from Heroics, crafted, VoA. ToC is easily farmed by pugs, both 10 and 25 man at this point. Once you get your gear, ICC 10/25 pugs are easy as well. There's a zone buff in ICC that's up to 20% boost to dmg/hp/healing/shields, which really helps pugs get at least the first wing down. Most on my server are up to 6 or 8 of 12 fights now it seems.

ALSO: Do yourself a favor, go to Tankspot.com and look up their videos on the fights. They're well described and will give you the jist of what's going on in the fights so you don't risk getting kicked for doing something stupid against the mechanics of the fight.
 

DarkJC

Member
J-Rzez said:
They're mad, that's all. Hybrids have always wanted to be just as good as pures, and as they got more of a taste of it in Wrath, they're hungrier than ever. They don't understand how much of a "buff" it is to have rolled a class that can Tank, DPS, or Heal opposed to a pure that would have to roll another class to do the same, thus taking much more time.

Exactly. If you want to do top DPS, reroll a pure. Just like pure DPS has to reroll a tank or healer if that's what they want to do.

edit: To the guy who is just starting raiding for the first time, I can relate, I was in a similar boat just a month ago. The tankspot video suggestion is great, and another great resource is just reading the fights on WoWHead while I was waiting for more people to join the pug :lol

Oh, and if you don't have it already, get Deadly Boss Mods.
 

yacobod

Banned
J-Rzez said:
They're mad, that's all. Hybrids have always wanted to be just as good as pures, and as they got more of a taste of it in Wrath, they're hungrier than ever. They don't understand how much of a "buff" it is to have rolled a class that can Tank, DPS, or Heal opposed to a pure that would have to roll another class to do the same, thus taking much more time.

That is why they're penalized, and thankfully, even Ghost Crawler isn't that slow to realize this.

Just because I know it makes them mad, my MAIN is a HYBRID, and I accept that pures should do more DPS than me. It's common sense.


by the looks of your post it looks like you would really fit in well on the official wow boards, SO SERIOUS :lol
 

Dina

Member
J-Rzez said:
They're mad, that's all. Hybrids have always wanted to be just as good as pures, and as they got more of a taste of it in Wrath, they're hungrier than ever. They don't understand how much of a "buff" it is to have rolled a class that can Tank, DPS, or Heal opposed to a pure that would have to roll another class to do the same, thus taking much more time.

Yet they take twice the time to gear up both their resto set and their tank set. It's like you having a tanking alt on top of your 'pure' dps.

Shocking, I know.
 

C.Dark.DN

Banned
Dina said:
Yet they take twice the time to gear up both their resto set and their tank set. It's like you having a tanking alt on top of your 'pure' dps.

Shocking, I know.
Less time than a pure dps leveling a tanking or healing alt. :lol

Round and round in circles you guys go, when you'll stop, no one knows.
 

J-Rzez

Member
Dina said:
Yet they take twice the time to gear up both their resto set and their tank set. It's like you having a tanking alt on top of your 'pure' dps.

Shocking, I know.

Not even close to having to reroll a toon. Fact is, you're in said raids, you're rolling on off-spec gear, gearing it up as you go with your main. It's not the same as rerolling 1-80, doing the instance grind, then getting into raids, then gearing up. It's not even close as having the option of rolling offset pieces, or when geared up, declaring you changing rolls and getting top roll on them.

yacobod said:
by the looks of your post it looks like you would really fit in well on the official wow boards, SO SERIOUS :lol

Listen, I'm not so serious I'm losing sleep over this discussion. I'm doing just that, discussing my opinions at my leisure. That other guy is saying "lol idiot, you're bad, you're guild is bad" yet they don't know my characters, my skill, nor my guild's progression. You tell me who's post is off here.
 

Door2Dawn

Banned
I found these on mmowned.
Druid Changes

Balance

* Typhoon - Daze time increased to 6 seconds from 3 seconds.
* Wrath - Mana cost increased to 14% from 11% base mana. During Treeform cast time reduced by 50%, damage increased by 30%.
* Moonglow - Now affects Starsurge.
* Moonkin Form - Now increases the spell critical strike chance of all nearby friendly and raid targets within 100 yards by 6%.
* Wrath of Cenarius [NYI] - When you cast Moonfire, you gain Wrath of Cenarius. Wrath of Cenarius increases the damage done by your Moonfire by 3/6/9%, and reduces the mana cost by 10/20/30%. This effect is refreshed and amplified when you move, stacking up to 3 times. Effect lasts for 3 sec.
* Improved Moonkin Form [NYI] - Now grants 2/4/6% haste instead of crirical chance.
* Improved Eclipse - Increases the amount of Lunar or Solar energy generated from your Starfire and Wrath by 31%, and when critically hit by a melee or ranged attack, you will instantly generate 7 Lunar or Solar Energy.
* Solar Beam [NYI] - You summon a beam of solar light over the enemy target's location, interupting the enemy target and silencing all enemy targets under the beam within 10 yards while it is active. Solar Beam lasts for 10 sec.
* Euphoria - When you critically hit with Wrath or Starfire, you instantly gain an additional 3/6 Lunar or 5/10 Solar Energy. When you reach a Solar or Lunar eclipse, you instantly are restored 7/14% of your total mana.

Restoration

* Tranquility - Wording change to healing the target's party. Range decreased to 30 yards.
* Regrowth - When in Tree of Life form this spell is an instant cast.
* Naturalist - Reduces the cast time of your Healing Touch and Nourish spells by 0.1/.2/.3/.4/.5 sec and increases the damage you deal with physical attacks in all forms by 2/4/6/8/10%.
* Nature's Bounty [NYI] - Increases the critical effect chance of your Regrowth spell by 10/20/30/40/20% on targets at or below 25% health, and you have a 20/40/60/80/100% chance when you critially heal with Healing Touch and Nourish to reduce the remaining cooldown of your Swiftmend spell by 0.5 sec.
* Intensity - Rage generation reduced from 4 to 1.
* Subtlety - No longer reduces the chance for HoTs/Moonfire/Insect Swarm to be dispelled.
* Improved Tranquility - Reduces threat caused by Tranquility by 100%, and reduces the damage you take while channeling Tranquility by 50%.
* Fury of Stormrage - You have a 5/10/15% chance when you cast Nourish or Healing Touch to cause your next Wrath spell to be instant cast and cast no mana. Fury of Stormrage lasts for 8 sec.
* Lifebloom - While in Tree of Life form: Applies an additional application.
* Empowered Touch - Your Healing Touch spell gains an additional 10/2% of your bonus healing effects, and your Nourish spell has a 50/100% chance to refresh the duration of your Lifebloom on targets.
* Wild Growth - While in Tree of Life form: Affects an additional 2 targets.
* Revitalize - This effect cannot occur more than once every 7 sec.
* Gift of the Earthmother [NYI] - Increases the healing done by the bloom effect of your Lifebloom by 2/4/6/8/10%, and your Rejuvenation spell also instantly heals for 4/7/10/13/16% of the total periodic effect.
* Improved Barkskin - Grants 10/20% additional armor contribution from cloth and leather items while in Travel Form or while not shapeshifted, increases the damage reduction granted by your Barkskin spell by 5/10%.
* Tree of Life - 5 minute cooldown. 13% base mana. Shapeshift into the tree of life, increasing healing done by 15% and increasing your armor by 240% but reducing your movement speed by 50%. In addition, some of your spells are temporarly enhanced while shapeshifted. Lasts 45 sec. 5 minute cooldown. Enhanced spells: Lifebloom, Wild Growth, Regrowth, Entangling Roots, Thorns, Wrath

Feral

* Shred - Shred the target, causing 226% damage plus 56.5 to the target. Up from 54 damage.
* Ravage - Ravage the target, causing 550% damage plus 236.93 to the target. Up from 385% and 165.98.
* Maul - Rage cost increased to 15.
* Faerie Fire (Feral) - Rage cost increased to 15.
* Feral Aggression - Reduces the cooldown of Faerie Fire (Bear) by 1/2/3/4/5 sec, and increases the damage caused by your Ferocious Bite by 3/6/9/12/15%.
* Shredding Attacks - Reduces the energy cost of your Shred and Ravage abilities by 5/10 and the rage cost of your Lacerate ability by 1/2.
* Predatory Strikes - Increases the critical strike chance of your Ravage by 25/50% on targets at or above 90% health, and your finishing moves have a 10/20% chance per combo point to make your next Nature spell with a base casting time less than 10 sec. become an instant cast spell.
* Mangle (Cat) - Damage slightly increased.
* Improved Leader of the Pack - Your Leader of the Pack ability also causes you to heal for 4/8% of your total health and gain 4/8% of your maximum mana when you critically hit with a melee or ranged attack. This effect cannot occur more than once every 6 sec.
* Master Shapeshifter - Grants 5% healing when in both Tree of Life and Caster Form.
* Infected Wounds - Your Shred, Ravage, Maul, and Mangle attacks cause an Infected Wound in the target. The Infected Wound reduces the movement speed of the target by 25/50% and the attack speed by 10/20%. Lasts 12 sec.
* Savage Defense - Each time you deal a critical strike while in Bear Form or Dire Bear Form, you have a 50% chance to gain Savage Defense, reducing the damage taken from the next physical attack that strikes you by 75% of your attack power.
* Faerie Fire (Bear) - Decrease the armor of the target by 3% for 30 sec. While affected, the target cannot stealth or turn invisible. Stacks up to 3 times. Deals [AP * 0.05 + 1.0] damage and additional threat.
* Pulverize - 15 Rage, 5 yd range, Instant. Deals 120% weapon damage plus additional 952.27 damage for each of your Lacerate applications on the target, and increases your melee critical strike chance by 3% for each Lacerate application consumed for 10 sec.
* Fury Swipes - When you auto-attack while in Cat form or Bear form, you have a 6/12% chance to gain an extra auto-attack on the same target. This effect cannot occur more than once every 6 sec.
* Primal Madness - Tiger's Fury and Beserk also increases your maximum energy by 10/20 during its duration, and your Enrage and Beserk abilities instantly generates 1/13 Rage (Some kind of error, check in game).
* Skull Bash - 1 Rage, 8 yd range, Instant, 10 sec cooldown. You charge and skull bash the target, interrupting spellcasting and preventing any spell in that school from being cast for 5 sec.
* Skull Bash - 25 Energy, 8 yd range, Instant, 10 sec cooldown. You charge and skull bash the target, interrupting spellcasting and preventing any spell in that school from being cast for 5 sec.
* Improved Feral Charge - Increases the damage done by your next 3 attacks by 15/30% in Bear Form after you use Feral Charge (Bear), and Ravage will temporarly not require stealth for 1 sec after you use Feral Charge (Cat).
* Improved Feral Charge [NNF] - Increases your melee haste by 15% after you use Feral Charge (Bear) for 8 sec, and Ravage will temporarly not require stealth for 3 sec after you use Feral Charge (Cat).
* Improved Feral Charge - Increases your melee haste by 30% after you use Feral Charge (Bear) for 8 sec, and Ravage will temporarly not require stealth for 6 sec after you use Feral Charge (Cat).
* Faerie Fire (Cat) - No energy cost. Decrease the armor of the target by 3% for 30 sec. While affected, the target cannot stealth or turn invisible. Stacks up to 3 times.

Rogue Changes

Combat

* Feint - Performs a feint, causing no damage but lowering your threat by 4%, making the enemy less likely to attack you. In addition, reduces the damage you take from area of effect attacks by 50% for 6 sec.

Subtley

* Vanish - Allows the rogue to vanish from sight, entering an improved stealth mode for 3 sec. For the first 3 sec seconds after vanishing, damage and harmful effects received will not break stealth. Also breaks movement impairing effects.
* Cloak of Shadows - Instantly removes all existing harmful spell effects, provides momentary immunity against all damage and harmful effects, and increases your chance to resist all spells by 100% for 5 sec. Does not remove effects that prevent you from using Cloak of Shadows.

Assassination

* Master Poisoner - Increases the critical hit chance of all attacks made against any target you have poisoned by 1/2/3%, reduces the duration of all Poison effects applied to you by 17/34/50%, and gives Envenom a 33/66/100% chance not to consume Deadly Poison.
* Armor Skills - Leather armor is the best armor for Rogues, although Rogues are also able to wear cloth armor.
* Hunger For Blood - Removed.
* Vendetta - 30 yd range, Instant, 2 min cooldown. Marks an enemy for death, increasing all damage you deal to the target by 20% [NYI - special abilities only for now] and granting you unerring vision of your target, regardless of concealments such as stealth and invisibility. Lasts 30 sec.

Priest Changes

Holy

* Choir Leader [NNF] -Your Divine Hymn also heals you for 13% of your total health during its duration, and the channel time of your Hymn of Hope is reduced by 9%.
* Chakra - When you use Prayer of Healing, Renew or Heal 4 times in a row you will enter a Chakra state empowering you for 20 sec. You can only be in one Chakra state at a time. Prayer of Healing - Increases the healing done by your Prayer of Healing by 2/4/6/8/10% and reduces the cooldown of your Circle of Healing by .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 sec. Renew - Increases the healing done by your Renew spell by 11%, and reduces the global cooldown of your Renew spell by .1/.2/.3/.4/.5 sec. Heal - Increases the critical effect chance of your Heal spell by 1/2/3/4/5%, and your Heal has a 20/40/60/80100% chance to refresh the duration of your Renew on the target. Smite - Increases your total damage done by Shadow and Holy spells by 3/6/9/12/15%.

Discipline

* Martyrdom - Decreases the duration of Interrupt effects by 10/20%.
* Silent Resolve - No longer reduces dispel chances.
* Rapture - When your Power Word: Shield is completely absorbed or dispelled you are instantly energized with 1.5/2/2.5% of your total mana. This effect can only occur once every 12 sec.
* Improved Flash Heal - Increases the critical effect chance of your Flash Heal by 4/7/10% on friendly targets at or below 50% health.

Shadow

* Mind Melt [NYI] - Increases the damage done with your Shadow Word: Death by 15/30% on targets at or below 25% health, and and when you deal damage with Mind Spike, the cast time of your next Mind Blast is reduced by 10/30% (Possible error?) lasting 6 sec. Mind Melt can stack up to 3 times.
* Spirit Tap - When you kill a target that yields experience or honor, you instantly gain 5/10/15% of your total mana instantly and your mana regeneration rate will be increased by 20/25/30% for 15 sec.
* Shadow Affinity - Reduces the threat generated by your Shadow spells by 10/20/30%, and you receive 5/10/15% of your base mana when your Shadow Word: Pain or Vampiric Touch spells are dispelled.
* Empowered Shadow Orbs [PH] [NYI] - Increases the chance for you to gain a Shadow Orb when dealing damage with your Mind Flay and Shadow Word: Pain by 5%, and you have a 33% chance to gain a Shadow Orb when critically hit by any attack.

Warrior Changes

Arms

* Thunder Clap - Blasts nearby enemies increasing the time between their attacks by 19% for 10 sec and doing 16 damage to them. Damage increased by attack power.

Fury

* Commanding Shout - Costs No Rage - Instant - 60 second cooldown - Increases Stamina of all party and raid members within 30 yards by 1080 and gaining 10 rage. Lasts 120 sec. (Possible error, check in game)
* Battle Shout - Costs No Rage - Instant - 60 second cooldown - The warrior shouts, increasing strength and agility of all raid and party members within 30 yards by 16 and gaining 10 rage. Lasts 120 sec.
* Booming Voice - [Rank 1] - Your Battle Shout and Commanding Shout abilities generate an additional 1 rage when used.
* Booming Voice - [Rank 2] - Your Battle Shout and Commanding Shout abilities generate an additional 2 rage when used.
* Blood Craze - [Rank 1] - You have a 10% chance to regenerate 3.0% of your total Health over 5 sec after taking damage.
* Blood Craze - [Rank 2] - You have a 10% chance to regenerate 5.5% of your total Health over 5 sec after taking damage.
* Blood Craze - [Rank 3] - You have a 10% chance to regenerate 8.0% of your total Health over 5 sec after taking damage.

Death Knight Changes

Blood

* Bloodworms - Your weapon hits have a 3% chance to cause the target to spawn a Bloodworm. The Bloodworm attacks your enemies, gorging itself with blood until it bursts to heal nearby allies. Lasts up to 20 sec.
* Dancing Rune Weapon - The rune weapon also assists in defense of its master, granting an additional 21% parry chance while active.
* Veteran of the Third War - No longer increases strength. Increases your total Stamina by 4/7/10% and your expertise by 7.
* Improved Blood Presence - While in Frost Presence or Unholy Presence, you retain 2/4% damage reduction from Blood Presence, and the chance you will be critically hit by melee attacks is reduced by 2/4% in Blood Presence.
* Heart Strike - Instantly strike the target and up to two additional nearby enemies, causing 100% weapon damage plus 125.5 on the primary target, with damage reduced by 25% on each subsequent target. Each target takes 10% additional damage for each of your diseases active on that target.
* Blood Presence - The death knight takes on the presence of Blood, increasing Stamina by 9%, armor contribution from cloth, leather, mail and plate items by 61%, and reducing damage taken by 7%. Increases threat generated. Only one Presence may be active at a time.
* Bone Shield - 60 sec cooldown. The Death Knight is surrounded by 3 whirling bones. While at least 1 bone remains, Ghe:she; takes 19% less damage from all sources and deals 3% more damage with all attacks, spells and abilities. Each damaging attack that lands consumes 1 bone. Lasts 300 sec.
* Blood-Caked Blade - Your auto attacks have a 10/20/30% chance to cause a Blood-Caked Strike, which hits for 25% weapon damage plus 13.0% for each of your diseases on the target.
* Toughness - Increases your armor value from items by 2/4/6/8/10% and reduces the duration of all movement slowing effects by 6/12/18/24/30%.
* Death Strike - A deadly attack that deals 151% weapon damage plus 170.63 and heals the Death Knight for $F% of Ghis:her; maximum health for each of Ghis:her; diseases on the target.
* Might of Mograine - Increases the damage dealt by your Blood Strike, Heart Strike, and Rune Strike abilities by 5/10/15/20/25%.
* Sanguine Fortitude - While active, your Icebound Fortitude reduces damage taken by an additional 10/20/30% and costs no runic power to activate.
* Hemorrhagic Fever - Gives your Blood Boil a 50/100% chance to afflict enemies with Hemorrhagic Fever, reducing their physical damage dealt by 9% for 30 sec.
* Crimson Scourge - Increases the damage dealt by your Blood Boil by 15/30/45%.
* Improved Death Strike - Increases the damage of your Death Strike by 15/30/45%, increases its critical strike chance by 4/7/10%, and increases the healing granted by 25/50/75%.
* Blood Swarm - When you Plague Strike a target that is already infected with your Blood Plague, there is a 20/40/60/80/100% chance that your next Blood Boil will consume no runes.
* Will of the Necropolis - [Rank 3] - [Level 1] - When a damaging attack brings you below 30% of your maximum health, you generate a Blood Rune and the cooldown on your Rune Tap ability is refreshed, and all damage taken is reduced by 9/18/27% for 8 sec. This effect cannot occur more than once every 15 seconds.

Frost

* Icebound Fortitude - No longer grants additional damage reduction based on Defense for 12 sec.
* Guile of Gorefiend - No longer increases Icebound Fortitude duration.
* Improved Frost Presence - While in Blood Presence or Unholy Presence, you retain 3/6% increased runic power generation from Frost Presence, and your bonus damage while in Frost Presence is increased by an additional 3/6%.
* Pillar of Frost - Instant, 60 sec cooldown. Calls upon the power of Frost to increase the Death Knight's Strength by 21%. Icy crystals hang heavy upon the Death Knight's body, providing immunity against external movement such as knockbacks. Lasts 20 sec.
* Improved Icy Touch - No longer buffs Frost Fever.
* Annihilation - Increases the damage dealt by your Obliterate ability by 10/20/30%.
* Rime - Your Obliterate has a 15/30/45% chance to reset the cooldown on Howling Blast and cause your next Howling Blast or Icy Touch to consume no runes.
* Frost Fever - Now reduces the target's melee and ranged attack speed by 21% for 30 sec. Up from 14%.
* Frost Presence - Strengthens the Death Knight with the presence of Frost, increasing damage by 11% and increasing Runic Power generation by 11%.
* Runic Empowerment - When you use your Death Coil, Frost Strike, or Rune Strike ability, you have a 8/46/24/32/40% chance to activate a random fully depleted rune.
* Brittle Bones - Your Frost Fever chills the bones of its victims, increasing their physical damage taken by 2/4%.
* Might of the Frozen Wastes - When wielding a two-handed weapon, your autoattacks have a 15/30/45% chance to generate 11 Runic Power.

Unholy

* Unholy Presence - Now also increases rune regeneration by 11%.
* Virulence - Increases your chance to hit with your spells by 1/2/3%.
* Magic Suppression - Increases the spell damage absorption of your Anti-Magic Shell by an additional 9/18/27%, and increases the runic power generated when damage is absorbed by Anti-Magic Shell.
* Improved Unholy Presence - While in Blood Presence or Frost Presence, you retain 8/16% increased movement speed from Unholy Presence, and you gain an additional 3/1% (Possible error, check in game) haste while in Unholy Presence.
* Scourge Strike - An unholy strike that deals 100% of weapon damage as Physical damage plus 344.41. In addition, for each of your diseases on your target, you deal an additional 13% of the Physical damage done as Shadow damage.
* Corrupting Strikes - Increases the damage of your Plague Strike and Scourge Strike abilities by 10/20/30%.
* Night of the Dead - Reduces the cooldown on Raise Dead by 45/90 sec and the cooldown on Army of the Dead by 2/4 min.
* Anticipation - Removed.
* Unholy Frenzy - 30 yd range, Instant, 3 min cooldown. Induces a friendly unit into a killing frenzy for 30 sec. The target is Enraged, which increases their melee and ranged haste by 10%, but causes them to lose health equal to 3% of their maximum health every 2 sec.
* Sudden Doom - Your autoattacks have a 5/10/15% chance to make your next Death Coil cost no runic power.
* Epidemic - Increases the duration of Blood Plague and Frost Fever by 3/6/9/12/15 sec.
* Resilient Infection [NYI] - When your diseases, other than those applied via Pestilence, are dispelled, you have a 50/100% chance to have their cost refunded.
 

J-Rzez

Member
That's a shame to see the iconic bone shield removed from Unholy DK's. Looks like we get a form of Hysteria instead now. Not sure how I like the presence changes at this point, as it's going to take hands on time with way the new rune system works. Sudden Doom should be on proc and launch a free one without the press.

Scourge Strike changed... yet again. They have no idea what to do with that ability. :lol
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
speedpop said:
So much venom and hate.
You can always tell when it's going in that direction; someone inevitably pulls out the "your guild sucks" card.

:lol
 

J-Rzez

Member
Angry Grimace said:
You can always tell when it's going in that direction; someone inevitably pulls out the "your guild sucks" card.

:lol

:lol

Makes it way more special when the person doesn't know your character, let alone guild, and makes those remarks.

"I don't know who you are, but you and your guild sucks"**

**Trademark of the official WoW forums.
 

Door2Dawn

Banned
J-Rzez said:
That's a shame to see the iconic bone shield removed from Unholy DK's. Looks like we get a form of Hysteria instead now. Not sure how I like the presence changes at this point, as it's going to take hands on time with way the new rune system works. Sudden Doom should be on proc and launch a free one without the press.

Scourge Strike changed... yet again. They have no idea what to do with that ability. :lol
Whats interesting to me is that last talent in the frost tree. Why would a 2 handed talent be in the duel wield tree?
 

Rapstah

Member
* Spirit Tap - When you kill a target that yields experience or honor, you instantly gain 5/10/15% of your total mana instantly and your mana regeneration rate will be increased by 20/25/30% for 15 sec.
Okay, unless they add a cooldown for this there's not going to be any way to die as a Shadow Priest.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
yacobod said:
by the looks of your post it looks like you would really fit in well on the official wow boards, SO SERIOUS :lol
The "you're obviously too angry" argument is fucking weak, dude.

If you disagree with him, at least give a real reason why. I'm not even saying he's right.

"SO SERIOUS": the rallying cry of those with no rhetorical skills.
 

J-Rzez

Member
Door2Dawn said:
Whats interesting to me is that last talent in the frost tree. Why would a 2 handed talent be in the duel wield tree?

Well yeah, I mean it's still hard to tell how things will pan out until we see the new rune system in action. It is odd though, since Frost as we know now is more a DW design, but, changes may have been set. Guess we'll have to sit and wait.
 

Hero

Member
Rogue Changes

Combat

* Feint - Performs a feint, causing no damage but lowering your threat by 4%, making the enemy less likely to attack you. In addition, reduces the damage you take from area of effect attacks by 50% for 6 sec.

Subtley

* Vanish - Allows the rogue to vanish from sight, entering an improved stealth mode for 3 sec. For the first 3 sec seconds after vanishing, damage and harmful effects received will not break stealth. Also breaks movement impairing effects.

Fucking finally. This is what rogues have been saying for years now. Vanish will be overpowered.
* Cloak of Shadows - Instantly removes all existing harmful spell effects, provides momentary immunity against all damage and harmful effects, and increases your chance to resist all spells by 100% for 5 sec. Does not remove effects that prevent you from using Cloak of Shadows.

Increased by 1 second? Interesting. We knew about 100% resistance now which is godly. That last clause makes me wonder if that's just for PVE purposes...

Assassination

* Master Poisoner - Increases the critical hit chance of all attacks made against any target you have poisoned by 1/2/3%, reduces the duration of all Poison effects applied to you by 17/34/50%, and gives Envenom a 33/66/100% chance not to consume Deadly Poison.
* Armor Skills - Leather armor is the best armor for Rogues, although Rogues are also able to wear cloth armor.
* Hunger For Blood - Removed.
* Vendetta - 30 yd range, Instant, 2 min cooldown. Marks an enemy for death, increasing all damage you deal to the target by 20% [NYI - special abilities only for now] and granting you unerring vision of your target, regardless of concealments such as stealth and invisibility. Lasts 30 sec.

Vendetta sounds fun.

Misc Changes

* Every Man for Himself - Cooldown changed from 2 minutes to 5 minutes.

You forgot this one. Humans owned.
 
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