I actually don't think it's meant to be a time sink (that would be all the rep grinds and "non-raider" ways to get epics in classic) as much as it is them trying to get people to check out every zone. So you get quests sending you to new zones because they want people going there regardless of how well they designed them (i.e. not at all). I especially remember that kind of jarring weirdness from the classic beta, because as those zones became open with new beta patches, they would add those breadcrumb/fedex quests to go to the new zone in what felt like illogical areas because they wanted to herd everybody there.Angry Grimace said:
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World of Warcraft
- Thread starter Cerebral Palsy
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Certain areas are still very good.Amir0x said:
Western Plaguelands is one of my favorite leveling zones in the game. The storyline and lore that comes from that whole cauldron quest line is great. Also every one of those farms has their own specific quest chains which are very cool snippets of lore.
Feralas isn't bad either. That escort quest inside Jadenaar is really cool actually.
Honestly, that's not that much of a stretch, unlike space goats.speedpop said:
Scythe of Elune had been mentioned in lore for years know. At the very least, when I've started reading up on it 3 years ago it was already there. Inclusion of Nelf Druids is something new, but we knew that worgen (outside of Gilneas/Silverpine) were summoned using it.
Finally got to 50 on my druid. Leveling is so better now, random dungeon is godly. Now for the last stretch before Outland.
Edit:
You mean Felwood? That's where Jaedenar is. I don't really like that zone, but different strokes for different folks I guess.skel said:
Amir0x said:
It most certainly is. I started playing in TBC times when it launched, so I didn't have much vanilla WoW experience outside of playing for a couple hours here and there over my buddies house. Even then the change from Vanilla to TBC was immediately noticeable. Now factor in how Wrath further refined everything they have learned, someone who's just starting to play to probably really scratch their heads as it's going to feel like 3 different games just leveling to 80 alone.
At least in the Vanilla content, the random dungeon and battleground XP is really nice, and you can blow through 58-levels like nothing.
Once again, even Blizzard knows how shitty vanilla is now these days, hence why they're putting a lot of working into redoing said levels.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Except Blizzard fucked it up so the rewards end up being dramatically underleveled becuase thier item level scales without considering the jump in ilvl from TBC stuff so you still get ilvl 60 stuff when the quest rewards are all ilvl 80.firex said:
Yea that's what I meant, my bad.CassSept said:
The entire zone wasn't great, but all the Jadenaar quests are kind of interesting, and then there is that whole dichotomy with the Furlbogs or w/e they're called.
Just saying, all of old world isn't terrible, if you know where to look.
half a moon
Banned
I might level up a 70 then let it sit until cat. A lot of 80s will be in very high ilevel gear while I'm in blues or greens. Leveling quest zone pvp will suck. It'll suck even worse if people fly from the get go. Originally keeping people on foot until 40 and the ground in general was great for world PVP. It was also great for getting people to explore the world's massive scale. I think we see this reasoning for level 70-77 ground only travel. But, again, new 70s were at a leveling pvp disadvantage. I hope a lot of people reroll at cat and that new toons don't get flying mounts until at least 40 if they let lower levels get this.firex said:
Now.. if a lot of people focus on their 80's and re-roll at different times making it not be that populated... I'm going to want to fly through leveling and get a flying mount asap. And that's what I mean about old world right now. You don't get the harness the original potential .
So, honestly, I think the amount of people playing old world directly influences how much fun you have. Thus, back then, leveling was a lot of fun to me. Afterward, you had Green Dragons, ZG, Ony, MC, AQ, BWL, NAXX. Most of those made a come back at different points. All at once was a great endgame.
I played WoW from the beta, had tried a plethora of MMO's before WoW, was there day one for UO.
You can say vanilla wow was shit now all you want, but at the time it was light years beyond anything out there. And yeah it was fun, especially if you had a good guild.
Now a days, low level regions are so barren you don't really get the full effect. Back when the game first came out, you could easily form pick up groups right there in the middle of mobs.
Hopefully Cataclysm will bring some of that back to the first 60.
edit: needless to say BC and LK stuff are greatly improved. The Phasing in LK stuff is just so awesome compared to everything before.
You can say vanilla wow was shit now all you want, but at the time it was light years beyond anything out there. And yeah it was fun, especially if you had a good guild.
Now a days, low level regions are so barren you don't really get the full effect. Back when the game first came out, you could easily form pick up groups right there in the middle of mobs.
Hopefully Cataclysm will bring some of that back to the first 60.
edit: needless to say BC and LK stuff are greatly improved. The Phasing in LK stuff is just so awesome compared to everything before.
So you're just agreeing with everybody else. We all said the classic endgame was terrible and didn't complain much about the leveling (I certainly never would have, because it was only a problem with poor class design and not actual amounts of content, i.e. several classes would have a bitch of a time handling quests while others would breeze through). The thing is, I don't miss anything from classic. Because, like you said, TBC and WotLK are way better.sprsk said:
half a moon
Banned
Everyone agrees that right now leveling through it is a pain. But, he and I are saying it was fun. Thus, not terrible.firex said:
half a moon
Banned
Was all that necessary? Wow times a million.....firex said:
Let me reiterate...
"You can say vanilla wow was shit now all you want, but at the time it was light years beyond anything out there. And yeah it was fun, especially if you had a good guild."
My post was doing two things. Saying that everyone thinks leveling in the old world sucks now, not that everyone thinks Vanilla endgame sucks. He said Vanilla was fun then. Everything. He can come back and say end game was shit if I interpreted him directly say it was fun wrong. Which seems unlikely to me.
half a moon
Banned
I have a hog. I don't think I'll be getting the car. Don't really like it from what I've seen out of game.Belfast said:
I wish the hog was bind on account. Having a level 20 cat alt riding one. Pimp.
woah he is risking a lot to put up that video.Belfast said:
edit: BRC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mozKW1HtQI
Well, anyone who played it and has at least half of their will to live remaining hated the vanilla WoW endgame. Especially if they played it as horde, because like I said, it was completely not balanced around an entire faction. It was shit when it came out and being "light years" beyond EQ's week-long respawn timer, non-instanced mobs people could ninja loot didn't make it fun for anyone who isn't a masochist. It was also completely antithetical to the actual leveling experience, which is why the whole max-level endgame has gotten to be less of a pointless timesink and frustrating grind as the game has gone on.half a moon said:
Also, if you want to talk about the actual content, here is how vanilla raid fights break down. Pick 2-3 from this list:
Fear ward the tank because the boss will roar and make people run in fear and wipe the raid unless the tank has fear immunity
Don't use fire because it's immune to fire
Spam dispel on debuffs
DPS/Healers line of sight the boss on a 1-2 minute timer
Equip resist set X to guard against the boss's unavoidable damage
Tranquilizing shot during its enrage to avoid tank getting killed (aka the "gotta include hunters for some reason" gimmick)
There were almost none of the fun fight mechanics introduced in TBC or WotLK. 99% of content was getting into place and then standing there and mashing buttons until the timer counted down for whatever gimmick. I think the only ones that actually changed shit up were C'Thun, Twin Emps, the slime boss in AQ40, and Vael and Nefarian in BWL. Although I will admit, my guild sucked too much to get anywhere in old Naxx, so maybe its fights worked the same as they do now. But the worst content was all before that and almost none of the fights had the depth that TBC and WotLK have, even if those fights are easier (because there is room for error). Admittedly I am listing a somewhat good amount of boss fights out of the vanilla total (maybe 33%) and possibly forgetting others, but far too much content was tank and spank and usually if it had another gimmick to it, it was that it took multiple tanks for the same purpose.
In other words, vanilla WoW endgame was terrible and you are probably a secret Muslim Nazi terrorist baby-killing atheist for having a different opinion.
I really hope this doesn't get an honest response out of you. Reading and writing sarcastically on this forum is a dying tradition.
Old-World has some terrible parts, but some areas are still awesome. I will say the newer regions seem to flow better from questhub to questhub.
But the Barrens never gets old to me. STV is a good region, as is Tanaris, 1k Needles, Un'goro, WPL and Desolace (desolace is boring looks-wise though).
But the Barrens never gets old to me. STV is a good region, as is Tanaris, 1k Needles, Un'goro, WPL and Desolace (desolace is boring looks-wise though).
STV and STM are basically Northrend zones IMHO. They are huge and questing is very nicely hubbed and STM facilitates about 5 levels and STV facilitates a whopping TEN levels. About the worst that can be said about STM is the worst that can be said abotu any zone with harpies... that it has harpies..........speedpop said:
Plus STM had, what was for me, the very first "omfg... wow..........." moments of WoW.. When you see the "Wanted" posting while just running along the path and slowly follow the path of cobwebs to fight that spider queen. such an amazingly well designed area and one of the earliest examples of how epic this game could get.
edit - I would almost put Barrens in there also, but god damn that zone is so huge. And to everyone who remembers when there was ONE FREAKING FLIGHT PATH there at xr.... but outside of Northrend, Barrens and Thunder Bluff are the only times I am guaranteed to turn off the TV or whatever music I'm listening to and just listen to the game and the soundtrack just because it's all so amazing and comes together perfectly taking me back 6 years ago.. I think over the last 2 months I've leveled up like 6 naked toons all through Barrens just to soak up every last ounce of it before Cat comes and destroys it.... that's actually going to be really hard to take
Un'goro and Desolace were both upgraded considerably from launch. and yeah, Desolace is great for questing but horrible to look at.. as much as I will be greatly saddened by the physical changes to Barrens (such a beautiful zone) I won't miss old Desolace a single bit. The new zone looks vastly improved.Dina said:
firex said:
i think the ppl saying that probably did not really experience classic endgame and were on the outside looking in so to speak, the haves and the have nots
i think the biggest negative of original wow was raid size, i.e. 40 man raids, too much fat in the raid, and ya blizzard did not really figure out how to itemize gear until AQ40 and Naxx, looking back on some of the itemization on tier for T1 and T2 is funny
as far as i'm concerned tho for raid variety Classic WoW trumps WotLK, I'd take MC, BWL, Original Onyxia, ZG, AQ20, AQ40, Original Naxx, and World Dragons over Naxx Redux, Ulduar, TOC, ICC, EoE, Obsidian Sanctum, and Ony Redux, think ulduar was really the best raid in wrath
and say what you want about the old HW/GM grinds, at least back then there were tons of organized wsgs or abs to participate in with server rivals and the like that was a lot more fun then the terrible pugs in bgs now, at least cata is brining back organized bgs
and there were plenty of interesting raid encounters in vanilla, in BWL alone i'd say razorscale with the kiting, vael, chromag, and nef were all pretty good
and i think you are over-stating things from a horde stand-point, i raided horde in vanilla, tremor totem plus competent tanks that could stance dance and berserker rage really offset any need for fear ward, granted fear ward was easy mode, but it wasnt a deal breaker, and we had windfury totem for max melee dps
Those are just the favorite looks (looks like I was wrong, for some reason it didn't seem to be clickable initially). Turns out the pet I've had forever is the Plagued Swine.. got it right when I hit 60 apparently. I guess the benefit of the boar is it'll eat anything -- I forgot that was so rare.Valru said:
click on the pictures! also notice that you can browse by species or by look (via gallery of pets)Meier said:Those are just the favorite looks and don't seem to link to the pet itself anyway.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Yeah, but wouldn't your overall DPS be lower without viable threat reduction from BoSalv? I mean, Shaman's had Tranquil Air or whatever, but that was only party wide when i started in BC and I can't imagine it was different then. Seems you like your overall raid DPS would just be gimped vs. Alli raids.yacobod said:
My hunter's wolf is the least popular: Grimtotem Spirit GuideValru said:
http://www.wow-petopia.com/html/browse/browse_retired.php
firex said:
It wasn't terrible, it was unforgiving. Theorycrafting was non existant, guides were non existant, people played in absolutely horrid specs because they didn't know better.
While MC was prety boring and long at first, it still introduced the basics of end game raiding.
Do you remember the first time you saw Ragnaros? The awe? The sheer size of it?
Do you remember the first time you had Nef land? The chaos? The almost sure wipe because no one was expecting him to land?
Remember your first class call? Remember zoning into AQ40 and hearing C'thun talk to you? In that eerily creepy voice?
Remember fighting Bloodlord Mandokir and hearing Jin'Doh yell "GRATS" when he "DINGED"?
Nowadays raiding is part of everyone's life in wow. People expect it, if you don't have 5746987 GS you'Re terrible, a noob, a baddie because most of it is given away for free.
While it's awesome for the game (and for stepping foot into the actual endgame almost as soon as you hit 80), it cheapens the feeling of progression and (luls) accomplishement.
I mean I probably won't remember HM Arthas as much as I remember killing Rag for the first time, or Nef, or C'thun or banging my head on the 4 HM for weeks on end. Hell M'uru and KJ will give me fonder memories (memories of wiping 500 times to that fucker, damn you priests and you "mass dispell resists").
In the end people have a bad memory of vanilla endgame because it was difficult, you couldn't skip parts, you had to go through MC, then BWL, then AQ and then Naxx.
Did it suck for new comers? Hell yes, was it great if you were at the raiding top? It was.
Now I wouldn't want to go back to it
I'm happy raiding 3 hours a week and beeing done till the next reset outside of screwing around with friends or on alts.agree with all of that, including the part of not wanting to go back to it. I loved not knowing if this was a week we were going to down Rag or if we were going to wipe all night to him (in our early days before he became farmed). loved the controlled chaos of the domo and first BWL fights. loved the top guild meeting place that BRM was for almost two years.. I mean I love dungeon finder and instant teleports and how much more streamlined they've made the game. I love how they've brought a sense of newness to the encounters cut out the fat, etc.. but yeah.. take the epic quality of EQ raiding and make it a bit more organized and toss that blizzard polish on there and there was definitely nothing like the first times entering BWL, MC, ZG, AQ, etc. The game is better for the changes now. much better. But I highly doubt any of the current raids will make impressions on new players as much as those early ones did on us.
Fularu said:
Probably my most fond memory of vanilla raiding. He was HUGE!
The other examples were good too. I wouldn't go back to vanilla either, but I think part of my fondness was because of my well structured guild and the community we had. We were mostly a 20man guild, but we would go participate in world events and partner with other guilds to do 40mans. I've guild hopped with a core group of friends since BC came out.
Since there is so much stuff to do nowadays in WoW, it has naturally fractured the interest of guild members and steered us towards just doing our own thing casually. The guild would still raid, but I didn't feel like signing on at certain times to do content anymore and I mostly ended up pugging everything the last stretch I was playing.
I feel the major difference between the two was why people did it. Now, everything is basically a checklist of doing your weekly dailies.
I think the biggest example I can give was PvP. Before BGs, there was World PvP. Now...There isn't any. :lol The honor system was great. PvP servers really felt like it. But instead of making the world feel more alive(Conquering Towns or something like that). They instanced it off in BGs. And then it went quiet again. The most PvP after that was mage bombing the people waiting to get in a BG.
Like everyone else, I really wouldn't want to go back. Who wants to deal with the bullshit again of getting 40 people to a zone...with 30 people expecting summons. Best was when there was horde there PvPing. Oh...we start at 7....but it's 8 now!.
But at the same time, you really can't match the charm of your first trip to BRS. Or the best one. Alliance having to run from Southshore to SM. Going right through horde turf.
I think the biggest example I can give was PvP. Before BGs, there was World PvP. Now...There isn't any. :lol The honor system was great. PvP servers really felt like it. But instead of making the world feel more alive(Conquering Towns or something like that). They instanced it off in BGs. And then it went quiet again. The most PvP after that was mage bombing the people waiting to get in a BG.
Like everyone else, I really wouldn't want to go back. Who wants to deal with the bullshit again of getting 40 people to a zone...with 30 people expecting summons. Best was when there was horde there PvPing. Oh...we start at 7....but it's 8 now!.
But at the same time, you really can't match the charm of your first trip to BRS. Or the best one. Alliance having to run from Southshore to SM. Going right through horde turf.
Mr. Luchador
Member
I'll never forget the noise over vent the night we killed Nef. The night that we had finally 'made it' as a guild.
Our guild was a pain for doing that, we'd camp in Black Rock and wait for Horde guilds to start their nightly raiding and just fight them for hours. It started flame wars on the forums as it wasn't being 'gentlemanly' - screw that, its a PVP server!
We also crashed the server a few times raiding Undercity, though there were about 50 of us at the time
Remember when Faction Leaders were suppose to be the ultimate boss and have epic loot?
shintoki said:
Our guild was a pain for doing that, we'd camp in Black Rock and wait for Horde guilds to start their nightly raiding and just fight them for hours. It started flame wars on the forums as it wasn't being 'gentlemanly' - screw that, its a PVP server!
We also crashed the server a few times raiding Undercity, though there were about 50 of us at the time
Remember when Faction Leaders were suppose to be the ultimate boss and have epic loot?
sort of. damage dealt and resistances and defense for both sides are based as if they were 3 levels above you. but actual base level of damage, hit points, armor values and stats, etc are all static based on the way they were programmed.Dance In My Blood said:
what cracks me up after all of these years was how blizzard actually left the "boss" level mobs in UBRS. They changed Emberseer to an actual level... and even funnier are the claims that Drakksith and the Beast still behave as level 63 elites even though they are actual bosses. wish blizz would just go back and make them 62 or 63 or something.
I dunno. I mean I liked BWL for the most part (although I hated the chromaggus fight as a warlock, because being a horde warlock I was expected to felhunter dispel the blue debuff) but I never felt too impressed by Ragnaros. I think I was more impressed when bosses had actual voices and stuff in TBC. AQ40 and AQ20 were kind of cool but maybe part of why I hate the classic raids is I had a shitty guild (and like everybody else, I hated the 40 person raid size). I mean, we got up to Twin Emps and failed, couldn't get past that first crypt lord boss in Naxx, and we were able to do everything else. Plus playing it as a warlock, every fight really didn't change enough, and even worse was having to be at raids early to farm shards so I could summon 3/4 of the raid who was on all fucking day and couldn't be bothered to travel to BRM/Silithus ahead of time.
Vanilla still has the best boss sound clip of all time, OF ALL TIME.
One minute in: Hakkar yells: PRIDE HERALDS THE END OF YOUR WORLD. COME, MORTALS! FACE THE WRATH OF THE SOULFLAYER!
One minute in: Hakkar yells: PRIDE HERALDS THE END OF YOUR WORLD. COME, MORTALS! FACE THE WRATH OF THE SOULFLAYER!
Skel said:
Western/Eastern Plaguelands and Scholomance/Stratholme were the last things I did in Old WoW and I did not find them much fun either.
However, it seemed at that point, it at least made sense the flow of quests. I mean, you did the quests in the surrounding areas and many of them led into the dungeons nearby, and you could safely travel between the two zones to do most of the work.
But of course that all came undone when in order to get the goddamn Scarlet Key you had to do fifty fucking quests and also go to goddamn Gadgetzan. Fuck that shit.
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