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[SuperAndroid17]

man when did gearscore become the most important thing in this game? just resubbed a few days ago and the trade chat is full of claims that only 5k gs is good enough to do anything. on the other hand, find a dungeon is absolutely fantastic! my only gripe is that i can't also do bg while waiting to be put in a group. also, bg marks don't exist anymore? are they useless now, i have like 100 ab, av and eots marks :(

you can turn them in for 185 honor each , at the battlemaster I think or w/e his name is. The guy should have a blue question mark over his head.

 

[Alcoori]

man when did gearscore become the most important thing in this game? just resubbed a few days ago and the trade chat is full of claims that only 5k gs is good enough to do anything. on the other hand, find a dungeon is absolutely fantastic! my only gripe is that i can't also do bg while waiting to be put in a group. also, bg marks don't exist anymore? are they useless now, i have like 100 ab, av and eots marks

Yeah the GS obsession has become a bit ridiculous. It's a good indicator on how well you're geared but does not reflect at all your propensity to tank/dps/heal.
I've out-dps a mage with 5k1 while TANKING in my 4k9. Seriously man? Usually I get spanked really bad which is how it should be.
However I played with a rogue 5k7, he out-dps everyone by a VERY large margin.

I've also done Forge of Souls with a healer 3k5 of GS who went tremendously smoothly compared to another one the next day with a 5k+ healer.

As for the marks, I'm not sure what's happening there. I think (emphasis on the think) that you can exchange them for Honor since it seems everything is bought with honor.
Take it with a grain of salt though, I don't pvp at all

 

[Yasser]

you can turn them in for 185 honor each , at the battlemaster I think or w/e his name is. The guy should have a blue question mark over his head.

cool, thanks! i never have to do wsg again XD

Yeah the GS obsession has become a bit ridiculous. It's a good indicator on how well you're geared but does not reflect at all your propensity to tank/dps/heal.
I've out-dps a mage with 5k1 while TANKING in my 4k9. Seriously man? Usually I get spanked really bad which is how it should be.
However I played with a rogue 5k7, he out-dps everyone by a VERY large margin.

I've also done Forge of Souls with a healer 3k5 of GS who went tremendously smoothly compared to another one the next day with a 5k+ healer.

As for the marks, I'm not sure what's happening there. I think (emphasis on the think) that you can exchange them for Honor since it seems everything is bought with honor.
Take it with a grain of salt though, I don't pvp at all

see, that's what i'm talking about! no one seems to take player skill into consideration it seems. hell, looking at how someone's gemmed and enchanted their gear probably tells you more than gs. or maybe i need to find a guild so all this is irrelevant =/

 

[Kletian]

Spoiler

Nah, I'm just bitter how few changes rogues usually get between patches compared to other classes.

QFT.

But now I wonder, they gave Subtely the general level 81 NEW ability that they were giving all Rogues, without replacing it with anything. Why are they so against giving Rogues new toys.

I suppose Combat will be getting Smoke Bomb next patch right? :lol

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Damn with this Thunderclap change, do you think Arms Warrior will come out stronger than Retribution Paladins?

Starting to really worry now.

Thats like two straight beta builds and the hunter class is in ruin over there. Our tree specific coefficients for our shots arent working right, Imp tracking is still the odd man out as a 5 point tier one talent that was supposed to go away, our focus is stuck at 3 per second when they told us months ago its intended to be 6 per second, pet frenzy doesnt work so you cant test the self haste BM talent, fervor doesnt give the pet any focus like it should, pets are forced to never use any skills otherwise they never will have focus for growl etc.

The class is a wreck. At least if they could get the focus regen right we could test something. If right now rogues were regenning 10 energy a tick instead of 20 there would be outrage. This is starting to worry the shit out of me. They are really dragging their asses.

Did you play during the original WoW beta? If you remember, they took quite their time with implementing Hunter and fixing it. It was one of the last things they did, I remember.

Hunter probably has substantial work behind it, so they are not doing the big things for it now. I would imagine there are some serious revamping going on, somewhere. I think it will come.

 

[markot]

Theyve done quite alot with their pets and that whole system, a new 'move to' feature for em, the new stables stuff, plus reworking the class to use whatchamacallit over mana.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Theyve done quite alot with their pets and that whole system, a new 'move to' feature for em, the new stables stuff, plus reworking the class to use whatchamacallit over mana.

Survival tree was always the uninteresting one. They never knew what to do with it. The whole traps thing, never really worked, and even way back they had some semi-melee focus on it. It was always nice for PvP, and slow moving and stopping effects.
They made Hunters so annoying to play against in PvP. Like Rogues in their hayday.

 

[Flib]

The swipe bonus for 2p t10 feral druids is kind of ridiculous. As if our AOE tanking need to be made any easier.

 

[Confused101]

I have a quick question for you guys. I'm sure one of you will understand what I'm about to ask.

I got this bow when I first started doing WotLK quests. I kept it for a while as I never found a nice replacement. After doing Ahn'kahet (if that's how you spell it) I acquired an Astral Light Bow of the Bandit.

The Astral Bow is better in every way except that I lost 17 points of hit rating from the Warsong bow. So when I equipped the Astral Bow, my overall damage went down. Why would that happen? The Astral Bow is faster and has higher base damage. I'm not quite understanding something here.

 

[Flib]

I have a quick question for you guys. I'm sure one of you will understand what I'm about to ask.

I got this bow when I first started doing WotLK quests. I kept it for a while as I never found a nice replacement. After doing Ahn'kahet (if that's how you spell it) I acquired an Astral Light Bow of the Bandit.

The Astral Bow is better in every way except that I lost 17 points of hit rating from the Warsong bow. So when I equipped the Astral Bow, my overall damage went down. Why would that happen? The Astral Bow is faster and has higher base damage. I'm not quite understanding something here.

Hit rating determines how much you will miss when shooting. There is a hard cap where if you have enough hit, you will never miss. If you aren't capped and you drop your hit, it means you are missing more and will do significantly less damage. When you reach 80, the first thing you should do is try to get hit-capped (if you're a hunter).

 

[Confused101]

Well holy shit. I honestly didn't think they would take the hit rating into account when calculating the damage. It makes sense but I figured they would just show the raw damage and if I missed, then the damage just wouldn't be applied.

Thank you.

 

[Bisnic]

Yes, hit rating is very important for damage. Especially when fighting monsters that are higher lvl than you.

 

[Macattk15]

Think I'm forgetting my rogue and going back to the class I played for soooooooo many years before I re-rolled.

Worgen Warrior all the way. I've played DPS Warrior more than Tanking as I find it to be much more fun. My account has been inactive since May though when my guild was doing Heroic Lich King (and failing) ... I just wish Cata would come out so I can start leveling again!

 

[Retro]

Thoughts on Paladin Changes:

• - Divine Plea at 58? Shield of Righteousness at 54? Good changes. Avenging Wrath needs to come down as well, 72 is too high for a spell that's pretty much the cornerstone of Retadin blitzing.
  
  
• - It looks like Holy Wrath has been changed to work on all targets (but still stunning undead and demons), making it more like a weak Thunderclap since Warriors are getting a weak version of Consecration.
  
  
• - Seal of the Pure = Light and Wisdom rolled into one? Wisdom was scrapped and MMO-Champion isn't listing Seal of Light anymore either. That means Paladins will have... Righteousness, Pure, Justice and Vengeance?
  
  
• - Denounce = Another step towards Shockadin, though the way talents work now I think Shock and Healadin are now one and the same. That's kind of scary for PVP.
  
  
• - Clarity of Purpose is.. um... probably broken? No way in hell does an 0.3 second speed increase costing 3 talent points go live. :lol
  
  
• -Divine Guardian no longer has a self-damage component, so fucking take THAT math-y crap talent I've always hated and avoided using.
  
  
• - I really hope Holy Shield isn't Prot's only exclusive outlet for Holy Power. Inquisition and Word of Glory are available to them, but those seem very DPS / Heal oriented.
  
  
• - I really don't know why Reckoning is back again, unless this is the bone they're throwing Prot PVP... those bonus attacks need to be un-parryable or bosses will still gain the temporary haste and wail harder, which is why Prot stopped taking Reckoning in the first place. Hopefully it's just a placeholder and they're retooling the entire thing.
  
  
• - Gee they finally got around to using that Zealotry thing that every Ret paladin has begged for since forever. Next stop; Avenging Angel form!:lol

Things appear to be heading in the right direction, finally...

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Divine Guardian...Math-y?


What?

 

[J-Rzez]

I think the proposed paladin changes so far sound fantastic. All three of it's specs were boring as hell, and at least now there's some real mechanics involved with some of these abilities and such.

I wouldn't worry about real problems with hunters. It's a very popular class, and there's months to go in the beta for them to tune it. The class didn't need too much help as it was near the tops on meters and when in the hands of a skilled player, pretty devastating in pvp. Granted, I don't know why they went to a focus energy system in the first place, probably about them complaining about getting mana burned in pvp.

Then again, I thought the DK rune system was fine as it was too, never having a single issue with rotations.

 

[notworksafe]

So...anyone get any invites or have they not sent any out?

 

[Retro]

Divine Guardian...Math-y?

What?

Like a dozen pages ago, we talked about Divine Sacrifice's tooltip making the actual ability (and thus, Divine Guardian) sound worse than it is, and how it should just be a flat 30% damage mitigation (as it is now) rather than a redirect.

So today's news that Sacrifice is gone and Guardian replaces it as just a straight up mitigation spell means we no longer have to break out our calculators mid-raid and figure out if 30% of all damage redirected, from 4 targets (remembering to account for avoidance, positioning, the phase of the moon and direction of the wind), but not more than 40% of the paladin's health is enough to drop us to 20% and cancel the effect just in time for the boss to rape us with a damage spike.

.... it's overly complex and it should just be a flat mitigation... and look, now it is. :lol

 

[Azwethinkweiz]

Well holy shit. I honestly didn't think they would take the hit rating into account when calculating the damage. It makes sense but I figured they would just show the raw damage and if I missed, then the damage just wouldn't be applied.

Thank you.

Actually, you are correct. Your hit rating is not taken into account. If you hit, then the amount of damage is based on the weapon. If this bow has higher top end damage, your damage should go up per shot. However your dps will go down if you're not hit capped anymore since you'll be missing shots.

 

[Tacitus_]

I think they finally got rid of mob parry haste and while they were doing that, made parry rating give the same ratio to percentage as dodge rating.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Thoughts on Paladin Changes:

• - Divine Plea at 58? Shield of Righteousness at 54? Good changes. Avenging Wrath needs to come down as well, 72 is too high for a spell that's pretty much the cornerstone of Retadin blitzing.
  
  
• - It looks like Holy Wrath has been changed to work on all targets (but still stunning undead and demons), making it more like a weak Thunderclap since Warriors are getting a weak version of Consecration.
  
  
• - Seal of the Pure = Light and Wisdom rolled into one? Wisdom was scrapped and MMO-Champion isn't listing Seal of Light anymore either. That means Paladins will have... Righteousness, Pure, Justice and Vengeance?
  
  
• - Denounce = Another step towards Shockadin, though the way talents work now I think Shock and Healadin are now one and the same. That's kind of scary for PVP.
  
  
• - Clarity of Purpose is.. um... probably broken? No way in hell does an 0.3 second speed increase costing 3 talent points go live. :lol
  
  
• -Divine Guardian no longer has a self-damage component, so fucking take THAT math-y crap talent I've always hated and avoided using.
  
  
• - I really hope Holy Shield isn't Prot's only exclusive outlet for Holy Power. Inquisition and Word of Glory are available to them, but those seem very DPS / Heal oriented.
  
  
• - I really don't know why Reckoning is back again, unless this is the bone they're throwing Prot PVP... those bonus attacks need to be un-parryable or bosses will still gain the temporary haste and wail harder, which is why Prot stopped taking Reckoning in the first place. Hopefully it's just a placeholder and they're retooling the entire thing.
  
  
• - Gee they finally got around to using that Zealotry thing that every Ret paladin has begged for since forever. Next stop; Avenging Angel form!:lol

Things appear to be heading in the right direction, finally...

Parry hasting exists, but Blizzard turned it off more often than not in Wrath. A more obvious reason why nobody took reckoning is because reckoning sucks.

 

[Kletian]

I'm seriously starting to get tired of their reluctance to give Rogues anything cool or flashy. Last neat toy we got IMO was Shadowstep, and you have to be the PvE useless spec to even get it.

Meanwhile Paladins, Mages, Warriors, Shaman, and even friggin Hunters seem to be getting all sort of nifty changes.

And to top it off they go and give one of our new abilities that would help with multi-target DPS to the Sub tree as well.

Grumble...

 

[HarryDemeanor]

So...anyone get any invites or have they not sent any out?

They haven't sent out any new invites yet. Last week a batch went out. I'm guessing they're sending them out every other week.

 

[firex]

QFT.

But now I wonder, they gave Subtely the general level 81 NEW ability that they were giving all Rogues, without replacing it with anything. Why are they so against giving Rogues new toys.

I suppose Combat will be getting Smoke Bomb next patch right? :lol

I didn't see anything calling that a talent. it was just under subtlety because that's what group of rogue skills it's trained under.

 

[Kletian]

I didn't see anything calling that a talent. it was just under subtlety because that's what group of rogue skills it's trained under.

Ah alright, every other Rogue change was a talent tree change, so I just assumed.

But my "rogues need more flash" point still stands

 

[notworksafe]

Hmm...seems Retaliation Battlegroup is so busted that no one can log in. This is after the 28 hour maintenance. I suppose this is where the crying should start. Blizzard, I promise I won't whine if I could get a Beta invite. :lol

 

[Rapstah]

Hmm...seems Retaliation Battlegroup is so busted that no one can log in. This is after the 28 hour maintenance. I suppose this is where the crying should start. Blizzard, I promise I won't whine if I could get a Beta invite. :lol

Well, duh, Retaliation only works for 12 seconds at a time.

 

[notworksafe]

Yeah, that's pretty true. It's been better recently (last few months) so I was getting spoiled I guess. Plus Area 52-US is like 12 servers combined into one so it's usually pretty dense.

 

[ShallNoiseUpon]

Hmm...seems Retaliation Battlegroup is so busted that no one can log in. This is after the 28 hour maintenance. I suppose this is where the crying should start. Blizzard, I promise I won't whine if I could get a Beta invite. :lol

Tear. Stained. Pillows.

:lol

 

[notworksafe]

Loot suspended.

 

[lordmrw]

Ah alright, every other Rogue change was a talent tree change, so I just assumed.

But my "rogues need more flash" point still stands

My thing is, they have no problem completely redoing other class trees if thats what it takes, why are they so god damn afraid to completely gut the subtlety tree to make it a viable spec? Because its been quite obvious as it is now that the abilities and skills in the subtlety tree just aren't cutting it. It just seems like they're content to throw their hands in the air and say it will always be lower damage then the other two get used to it.

 

[Angry Grimace]

My thing is, they have no problem completely redoing other class trees if thats what it takes, why are they so god damn afraid to completely gut the subtlety tree to make it a viable spec? Because its been quite obvious as it is now that the abilities and skills in the subtlety tree just aren't cutting it. It just seems like they're content to throw their hands in the air and say it will always be lower damage then the other two get used to it.

Because it's a very popular PvP and leveling spec and it kind of falls on deaf ears to claim Rogue *really* needs another viable DPS tree. One of the specs is always going to be worse than others at what it does. It's just not possible to make them all do *exactly* 10000 dps on a dummy for a 2:00 period or whatever.

If Spec A does 10100 DPS and Spec B does 10000 DPS, everyone will spec Spec A.

If Spec A does 10000 DPS and Spec B does 10000 DPS, everyone will spec whichever one requires the least effort. (See Arcane, Fire).

 

[Meier]

Actually, you are correct. Your hit rating is not taken into account. If you hit, then the amount of damage is based on the weapon. If this bow has higher top end damage, your damage should go up per shot. However your dps will go down if you're not hit capped anymore since you'll be missing shots.

Another thing to mention is the hit percentage (8% is the cap.. 262 rating as I recall) does not include the talent from Focused Aim. In reality, if you have 3 points in that your hit rating only needs to be somewhere around 160 or so. I have to admit that I was blissfully unaware of this after my extended hiatus (I was curious but didn't give it too much thought) for quite awhile.

 

[notworksafe]

If Spec A does 10000 DPS and Spec B does 10000 DPS, everyone will spec whichever one requires the least effort. (See Arcane, Fire).

Gotta love those 1-2 button rotations! Lump Mut rogues in that pack as well.

 

[keeblerdrow]

Another thing to mention is the hit percentage (8% is the cap.. 262 rating as I recall) does not include the talent from Focused Aim. In reality, if you have 3 points in that your hit rating only needs to be somewhere around 160 or so. I have to admit that I was blissfully unaware of this after my extended hiatus (I was curious but didn't give it too much thought) for quite awhile.

Yeah, but the guy we're all talking about is still leveling. To the guy still leveling: it doesn't matter that much. Take the weapon with the highest dps and use that for another 5 hours until you replace it with some weapon with even higher dps.

Don't worry too much about hit til you're 80. Then obsess over it.

 

[Confused101]

Don't worry too much about hit til you're 80. Then obsess over it.

Sounds like a plan! Only 3 levels to go. Hurray for cold weather flying. Sooo good.

Only need 1.7k more for fast flying too. Can't wait. Being exalted with Org has its perks after all, haha.

 

[witness]

Wow these pally changes look fantastic. Class looks so much more interesting now and gave pally's basically everything they've been demanding for years now.

 

[Tacitus_]

Wow these pally changes look fantastic. Class looks so much more interesting now and gave pally's basically everything they've been demanding for years now.

Now watch in horror as they take it all away from you like candy from a kid.

 

[notworksafe]

Now watch in horror as they take it all away from you like candy from a kid.

You main a Shaman?

Spoiler

I did in BC, so I'm used to this

 

[ShallNoiseUpon]

You main a Shaman?

Spoiler

I did in BC, so I'm used to this

RIP Spirit Link

 

[Entropia]

RIP Spirit Link

Really wish they would put that in, so good.

 

[J-Rzez]

Now watch in horror as they take it all away from you like candy from a kid.

Or watch in horror how they blow people the fuck up like they did when the pre-wrath patch launched, and they said, "wait til 80, it's balanced guys", only to see it wasn't like people said in the beta for months.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Wow these pally changes look fantastic. Class looks so much more interesting now and gave pally's basically everything they've been demanding for years now.

lolgapcloser

Actually, Retribution looks kind of weird. It seems like it's going to play really heavily off of Crusader Strike since that's your HP builder...I guess you just FCFS as usual with CS, Judgement, HW and Exo until 3 HP and then use Templar's Verdict.

It doesn't really seem too different than live given that if CS has the same CD as now, you use Templar's Verdict around every 12 seconds, which isn't really too different than DS ever 10. It kind of seems like the Retribution tree is pretty bloated though; I mean, there's not really any legitimate reason to spec more than 3 pts into Holy/Prot, although I will grant you that there's not much of a reason to spec Holy/Prot now as a Ret other than 15% str. in Prot and Judgment dmg in Holy.

Once mastery is in, I guess it will change up since you'll have more HP to use.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

I like when rogues could do 20k damage to players right when Wotlk came out.

 

[Manus]

Man it's taking me forever to grind to 80. Currently 73. Leveling from 60 to 70 was so easy, but this is just a pain.

 

[Chris R]

Man it's taking me forever to grind to 80. Currently 73. Leveling from 60 to 70 was so easy, but this is just a pain.

Are you actually grinding or doing quests? Questing with an epic flying mount, going from 70->80 takes no time at all.

 

[Manus]

Are you actually grinding or doing quests? Questing with an epic flying mount, going from 70->80 takes no time at all.

Questing and dungeon finder. I don't have the 5000 for an epic flying mount and I need cold weather flying to fly in Northrend which I can't get till level 77.

 

[speedpop]

Man it's taking me forever to grind to 80. Currently 73. Leveling from 60 to 70 was so easy, but this is just a pain.

Realistically it should only be taking you a day of playing 2-4 hours straight up quests to hit per level. It took me less than 2 weeks to go from 70 to 80.

 

[Manus]

Realistically it should only be taking you a day of playing 2-4 hours straight up quests to hit per level. It took me less than 2 weeks to go from 70 to 80.

Well I was at 70 monday and just hit 73 today, that's with my server being pretty much down all day yesterday. So I'm at a pretty good pace to getting to 80 quickly.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

lolgapcloser

Actually, Retribution looks kind of weird. It seems like it's going to play really heavily off of Crusader Strike since that's your HP builder...I guess you just FCFS as usual with CS, Judgement, HW and Exo until 3 HP and then use Templar's Verdict.

It doesn't really seem too different than live given that if CS has the same CD as now, you use Templar's Verdict around every 12 seconds, which isn't really too different than DS ever 10. It kind of seems like the Retribution tree is pretty bloated though; I mean, there's not really any legitimate reason to spec more than 3 pts into Holy/Prot, although I will grant you that there's not much of a reason to spec Holy/Prot now as a Ret other than 15% str. in Prot and Judgment dmg in Holy.

Once mastery is in, I guess it will change up since you'll have more HP to use.

Well, a CS and Templars Verdict might be exactly the thing that is enough to make the rotation varied and fun enough. Nobody asked for tons of instant attacks. It would just be good to have a few bread and butter ones.