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[Chrono]

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/article.php?id=6209

The report, which is summarized online by J-marketing.net here reveals a number of statistics from 2002, 2003 and 2004.

The value of the international and various national markets comprised of home video, theatrical releases and licensing income from merchandise, broadcasts and other areas.

The report suggests that, over time, the North American market may grow to twice the size of the Japanese market.

Wow. @_@

 

[android]

Is Hollywood worth that?

 

[Manabanana]

Oh god...Let's hope the fad dies before that happens.

 

[soundwave05]

Well they're including merchandising and what not as well.

You can see why Nintendo would want to get into this market though.

They could become the largest anime company quite quickly. They dwarf the likes of Bandai.

I think anime will really become a huge part of Nintendo's business in 4-5 years time and they'll be making large profits from it.

 

[Mugen]

$100 billion I don't fucking think so. Even Videogame market aren't as big.

 

[soundwave05]

Yeah the number seems highly exaggerrated.

 

[Chrono]

Well according to the report, the anime market will soon be worth 100 billion...


What’s interesting here is that the U.S. market could/will grow to be TWICE the size of the Japanese one. I bet we’ll see a lot of anime aimed primarily to the U.S. and a lot of pre-licensing will happen like in Samurai Champloo and Fantastic Children.

 

[SentientStone]

One of the reason why I do not care or pay much attention to anime nowadays is because of the current craze and commercialization of Japanese animation. When everyone around you starts to obsess over Naruto or the like, it just becomes an annoyance especially when you see nothing special in whatever it is that they are watching.
Now aside from Studio Ghibli stuff (in which I do not even consider as "anime") and occasionally the other Japanese animated films, I do not care about anything else especially for all the series that seems to follow the typical "cutey omgomg kawaii otaku" formula.

 

[0wn3d]

BeyBlade GRevolution > Your favorite American cartoon... lets say Ducktales.

 

[Boogie]

BeyBlade GRevolution > Your favorite American cartoon... lets say Ducktales.

Banned.

 

[Chrono]

One of the reason why I do not care or pay much attention to anime nowadays is because of the current craze and commercialization of Japanese animation.

...

I really have no idea what to say about this. I don't know whether it's funny or sad or pathetic. How insecure do you have to be to not like something because it became mainstream?

I don’t care about you in particular but I'm talking in general here. I see this happens whenever anything becomes popular, there are always a few 'elitist' who let it go. In anime there are the otakus who make it their life's goal to make others hate what they hate like naruto, fullmetal alchemist, bleach, etc.. It's annoying as hell because they never shut the fuck up. Always trying to sound 'better' then everybody by saying stupid stuff like "I like naruto but I hate the fans loz narutard omg." :lol

I'd like to hear what others have to say about this ‘elitist’ phenomenon.

Now aside from Studio Ghibli stuff (in which I do not even consider as "anime")

It’s anime. Miyazaki is one of the pillars of anime. He was also interviewed by Wired in an article on anime; if he didn't consider his work anime (and in this case his word > yours ) he wouldn't have participated in that interview.

 

[bionic77]

That 100 billion number sounds like pure fantasy. I think that would make anime bigger then Hollywood, which can't be right.

 

[captmcblack]

If Nintendo gets in on this like they're supposed to, they'll never be d00med.

Drinky will never rest in peace. :lol

 

[ge-man]

...
I'd like to hear what others have to say about this ‘elitist’ phenomenon.

Well, it's pretty much like said in your post about popularity. This same thing has been happening in video games as well.

I don't understand why people keep trashing anime and calling it a fad, though. There's garbarge like every other form of entertainment, but there is also a lot of great shows and movies to experince. It's just another style in the world of filmmaking and I for one enjoy the fact that it's finally going mainstream in the states. I've been a long time consumer of anime and every year it gets easier to acquire the stuff I find interesting.

 

[Eric-GCA]

Do they count Hentai in those numbers?

I'd be amused to see what kind of numbers the Hentai industry pulls in.

Would Ferrio know?

 

[heidern]

Japanese anime sales, including anime character products, in the United States in 2002 surpassed the 520 billion yen. Mr. Masaki Kaifu of Wowmax Media who assisted the study and conducts anime-related business in the United States says that sales figure grew in 2003 by another 60 billion yen

The Japanese domestic market for anime has most recently been estimated at around 400 billion yen, a figure that includes movies, television, video games, and music. On top of this, about 2 trillion yen comes from the licensing of anime characters.

If you assume that the US gets similar licensing revenue to Japan then you are looking at a $60B market between the 2. Add in other countries like China and countries within Europe and a $100B market doesn't sound too far fetched.

 

[Dan]

I don’t care about you in particular but I'm talking in general here. I see this happens whenever anything becomes popular, there are always a few 'elitist' who let it go. In anime there are the otakus who make it their life's goal to make others hate what they hate like naruto, fullmetal alchemist, bleach, etc.. It's annoying as hell because they never shut the fuck up. Always trying to sound 'better' then everybody by saying stupid stuff like "I like naruto but I hate the fans loz narutard omg." :lol

I'd like to hear what others have to say about this ‘elitist’ phenomenon.

There are people like that, yes, but there are also people who dislike those things for legitimate and genuine reasons who just get cast into the group of knee-jerk hate-filled anti-mainstream losers. Just as much as I hate these anti-mainstream folks, I hate the other people who hate on anyone who dislikes mainstream stuff. You've got both the hateful knee-jerk lovers and haters.

Basically, there are people on both sides that have completely arbitrary reasons for disliking things, with little to no respect to the actual content. Those people suck.

 

[Hitokage]

Now aside from Studio Ghibli stuff (in which I do not even consider as "anime")

Newsflash: The majority of everything is crap. Deal with it.

 

[J2 Cool]

Oh god...Let's hope the fad dies before that happens.

as a fan of some of the better stuff in anime.. Cowboy Bebop, Studio Ghibli, Berserk, etc. ... I have to agree, simply for the sheer ammount of crap anime puts out, not unlike like any other medium. It's just, the unworthy and shitty successes in anime would be horribly fatal to our younger generation. They need to be brought up on TMNT, Batman, Ducktales, Inspector Gadget, Looney Tunes, etc. Not the constantly growing dark side of anime

 

[Azih]

Dude, most of what kids like is crap anyway. Power Rangers for example.

 

[Celicar]

Newsflash: The majority of everything is crap. Anime is hardly an exception.

HAHA...I agree

Oh god...Let's hope the fad dies before that happens.

LOL...I agree with that too!

 

[robox]

Oh god...Let's hope the fad dies before that happens.

before they soil the medium that fantasia demonstrated as so wonderous

 

[norinrad21]

Drinky will never rest in peace. :lol

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Shouta]

I don’t care about you in particular but I'm talking in general here. I see this happens whenever anything becomes popular, there are always a few 'elitist' who let it go. In anime there are the otakus who make it their life's goal to make others hate what they hate like naruto, fullmetal alchemist, bleach, etc.. It's annoying as hell because they never shut the fuck up. Always trying to sound 'better' then everybody by saying stupid stuff like "I like naruto but I hate the fans loz narutard omg."

I'd like to hear what others have to say about this ‘elitist’ phenomenon.

There are quite a few "elitist" folks that have legitimate and genuine complaints about the state of the industry and what shows are being produced today. I'm part of that "elitist crowd". The folks complaining for the sake of complaining aren't even remotely "elitest", or at least have a reason for being so.

At any rate, The rapid commercialization and mainstreaming of anime/manga has had some nasty effects in general on the industry since about 1999/2000. The rate in which shows are being produced and the content in those shows are drastically gone down the gutter. I mean the entire fanservice phenomenon absolutely blew up starting around that time and it's gone absolutely bananas since then. It used to be that you MIGHT get one show in a year that did that and it wouldn't even be as remotely flagrant like the shows we have now. I could go on but I'll save that for another time. However, I will say that if you don't think that the rapid mainstreaming of anime hasn't had consequences, then you're dead wrong.

That 100 billion number sounds like pure fantasy. I think that would make anime bigger then Hollywood, which can't be right.

Hardly fantasy. The number of licensed products to go along with the shows and the sheer popularity of shows can easily produce these numbers. Remember, the popularity of these shows aren't just stretched between the US and Japan, it's among ALL the countries of the world where the popularity is absolutely astounding.

 

[Pellham]

At any rate, The rapid commercialization and mainstreaming of anime/manga has had some nasty effects in general on the industry since about 1999/2000. The rate in which shows are being produced and the content in those shows are drastically gone down the gutter. I mean the entire fanservice phenomenon absolutely blew up starting around that time and it's gone absolutely bananas since then. It used to be that you MIGHT get one show in a year that did that and it wouldn't even be as remotely flagrant like the shows we have now. I could go on but I'll save that for another time. However, I will say that if you don't think that the rapid mainstreaming of anime hasn't had consequences, then you're dead wrong.

I really don't understand this line of thinking. It sounds like you prefered the state of the anime industry when it was smaller and only the good stuff came out here. Now that it's bigger, and people will buy just about anything, more crap is coming out here.

So what?

That gives more choices to consumers. And besides, the quality of anime is completely subjective. What is crap to you, for instance fanservice shows, might be enjoyable to plenty of people, and it sells, the industry makes more money, which in turn means more shows get released here.

Look at the manga market. In 1999/2000, there was very little choice. Today, manga is everywhere and it's awesome. You can get just about anything now. It's the kind of scene that I always hoped for back when I started collecting manga in the early 90s.

Sure i'll agree that the mainstreaming of anime has had some consequences. But they have all been GOOD consequences. Price drops, bigger selection, more visibility, etc. etc.

Things like worrying about too much crap anime or worrying about the "image" of anime, are just things that you shouldn't have to worry about. I mean, who fucking cares!

 

[Shouta]

I really don't understand this line of thinking. It sounds like you prefered the state of the anime industry when it was smaller and only the good stuff came out here. Now that it's bigger, and people will buy just about anything, more crap is coming out here.

Dislike of rapid commercialization != preference for smaller industry.

That gives more choices to consumers. And besides, the quality of anime is completely subjective. What is crap to you, for instance fanservice shows, might be enjoyable to plenty of people, and it sells, the industry makes more money, which in turn means more shows get released here.

I'm not talking about the industry in America. They've built enough room to license most things here anyway (they have their own issues however, that's for another thread). I was referring to the shows being produced in Japan and the quality of said shows. Licensed material depends on the material made available in Japan and that's what I'm complaining about.

Second, quality of anime is only partially subjective. It's subjective in what genres and types of shows you enjoy but can be objectively looked at in areas such as animation, story related areas, and to a lesser extent, music. I contend that the areas I've mentioned that can be objectively looked at have gone down in quality. There's also the types of shows which I consider drek but of course that's my opinion =b.

 

[Hitokage]

The only difference between now and then as far as America is concerned is that now you aren't shielded as much as you were, and crap like Super Milk-chan gets the green light to come over.

 

[Stele]

The translation of the report makes it seem like a cumulative number over last +infinity years. Anecdotally, I think Anime was more popular several years ago. It's died down some since then.

 

[Shouta]

More or less Hito. I'd say that Domestic companies need to be a bit more discriminating with what they licensed too heh. I mean we got crap like Super Milk-chan and worse, Trouble Choclate getting DVD releases and those things should have never left Japan.

 

[lexy]

To clarify, the actual report didn't clarify exactly when the anime market would reach the said figure. Furthermore, the current US anime market (according to this report) amounts to about $6 billion USD.

 

[Pellham]

Well if you weren't talking about the US market, then I apologize. You didn't make that clear in your original point. (This thread is about the US market after all)

However I don't see anything to complain about in what's coming out in Japan. If there is a recent lack of quality shows, it's just because there's a recent lack of quality shows. It's not a downwards trend, you'll just have to wait until something good/special/catering to your tastes comes out.

 

[Shouta]

The thread's actually about anime in general =P.

However I don't see anything to complain about in what's coming out in Japan. If there is a recent lack of quality shows, it's just because there's a recent lack of quality shows. It's not a downwards trend, you'll just have to wait until something good/special/catering to your tastes comes out.

When it happens for almost 5-6 years straight, then it's a trend ;p.

There's always a handful of good shows each year but I'm speaking more towards the overall amount of shows and the trends in terms of content that's being presented (as well as how well it's being presented but to a lesser extent) within the overall shows. Going back to fanservice shows, the way these shows are being presented are totally dreadeful even compared to the fanservice shows 10 years ago. Fanservice used to be somewhat playful in terms of how it was presented say, something like Idol Project. Now, it's pretty damn blatant and tasteless. I'm no prude but man, it's like having Girls Gone Wild in your Anime and that's just awful.

Again, it's not like there aren't good shows coming out, it's a matter of the entire industry as a whole and the possibilities of bad trends sticking. I wouldn't want good shows to be pushed aside for more marketable shows which is to be frank, a possible reality.

 

[Chrono]

Shouta what would you consider to be the 'quality' series of this season? You have no room to talk about fan service when you pimp My Hime.

Since we're talking about anime in general I'll go ahead and list what I consider to be the best new ones so far. I'm interested to see everybody else’s list.

- Gankutsou.

- Fantastic Children.

- Genshiken.

 

[Deleted member 4784]

Are these statistics referring only to anime produced in Japan or anime in general? If this includes anime that is produced in countries other than Japan then I guess the $100 billion mark makes a little more sense. I agree with everyone else though that it does sound a bit exaggerated.

 

[Mugen]

Even still. If the videogame and hollywood market has yet to crack 50 billion COMBINED then I don't know how anime can be bigger than both of them... combined.

 

[fart]

World-wide Anime Market Worth $100 Billion Years Without Sex

FIXED

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

The Japanese domestic market for anime has most recently been estimated at around 400 billion yen, a figure that includes movies, television, video games, and music. On top of this, about 2 trillion yen comes from the licensing of anime characters. Even further growth in these numbers can be expected, especially in light of fresh remakes of many films by the three famous anime directors Mamoru Oshii, Katsuhira Ootomo, and Hayao Miyazaki. These remakes include "Casshern" and a 3-D version of "Apple Seed."

I didn't know the 'domestic market for anime" included video games and music

So yeah I GUESS taking everything into consideration, video games, music, anime, manga, television shows, in the world markets could mean it might reach 100 billion...still stretching it though...

Oh, and can anyone explain...

Japanese anime is expected to grow along with the spread of new media. If the size of the Japanese market is set to "100", then the size of the U.S., European, and Asian markets are estimated to grow to "200", "100", and "50", respectively. According to an estimate made by the Stanford Japan Center, the anime industry is expected to grow into a global market worth more than 10 trillion yen.

And while we're at it...

 

[Shouta]

Shouta what would you consider to be the 'quality' series of this season?

This season? Haven't checked out all of the new stuff (or remember all of what's been shown lately). Over the last few years there's been some "quality" series like Monster, Yakitate, FMA, Gash Bell (or Zatch Bell which is the name it's gonna be under when it shows on Toonami starting in March), Beck, GITS SAC, and the venerable Hajime no Ippo just to name a few. I only enjoy a handful of them (Yakitate, Ippo, and Gash in that list. I've been enjoying FMA more the 2nd time through dubbed oddly enough) from this list though.

You have no room to talk about fan service when you pimp My Hime.

Mai Hime is a bit of a regression of the entire trend. Sure, it has fanservice but it isn't even close to being offensive to the mind and eyes like shows that have come before it in the last few years. It actually uses in a more playful manner like older fanservice shows (although I swear I have my eyes rolling sometimes). If you want bad fanservice, check stuff like Girls Bravo, Eiken, Miami Guns, or the multitude of shows that spawned because of Love HIna's popularity. Besides, the show itself even without the fanservice is damn good, it's only a side smattering of it and it would be an excellent show even without the T&A.

If you think I like Mai Hime because of the fanservice, you're one helluva fool. That said, I have all the room to talk that I could want. I've been watching anime seriously long before a lot of folks and been watching general show trends change as well as the shows for my own entertainment. I've got a lot of experience with anime and I know what's going down from a viewer's standpoint.

Even still. If the videogame and hollywood market has yet to crack 50 billion COMBINED then I don't know how anime can be bigger than both of them... combined.

Don't know how to fully explain the numbers but the popularity of anime worldwide is certainly not something to trifle with. Anime has more penetration (as in recognition) world wide than videogames at this point. I mean, go to South America and see how many folks have seen soemthing like Captain Tsubasa or go to Europe and repeat with other shows. In a lot of regards, the US is actually behind the curve and one of the last places anime has gotten big in.

 

[lexy]

Oh, and can anyone explain...

And while we're at it...

They are saying that the U.S market for anime will be double the size of the Japanese market, the European market will be about even with the Japanese market, and the Asian market will be about half the size of the Japanese market, if growth continues as expected.

As I stated earlier, the report doesn't specify when the global anime market will reach $100 billion USD nor does it explicitly state how large that market is at present. The U.S. market (including all "liscenced products," VHS, DVD and movie ticket recipts) is only valued around $6 billion USD at present. Approx. $5.4 billion going by the figures presented in the 2003 graph but I'm assuming it has grown since then. Even if we quadruple this figure it amounts to about $24 billion USD globally, which is quite far from the $100 billion USD global market value the article is stating.

I wouldn't say that the number is exaggerated so much as I would that it's been taken out of context. I'm not even sure if that article was translated properly.

 

[Dead]

In a lot of regards, the US is actually behind the curve and one of the last places anime has gotten big in.

very true.

 

[shuri]

That is, if those fans actually buy the anime they download :lol

 

[MASB]

A couple of interesting perspectives on anime and manga. The first, from a US anime retailer on the state of anime in America. The second on the anime industry in Japan. Troubling, especially the second one, even if things aren't as bad as the poster makes it out to be.

Question:

Is the anime "boom" or fad finally dying in America? I've noticed that some companies have stopped releasing as many volumes of their DVDs or mangas, and that some people like CPM have stopped some of their lines due to poor sales. Another rumor I've heard is that DVD sales are down for anime. So is the anime fad finally dying? Or is it doing the opposite and growing?

Answer:

Before any reader takes my theories too seriously, I want it to be clear that they are nothing more than speculation. My observations are ones from someone who's a professional in the anime industry, but not an "industry insider." My professional affiliation affords me a more comprehensive view of the American anime industry than is available to many other fans. But there are also countless professionals, and even amateur anime fans in the domestic fan community that are more "connected" than I am. So my perceptions are based on only my own observations, knowledge and suspicions. With that said, I'll attempt to provide an objective, factual response peppered by my own, subjective thoughts.

For years I've stressed that the American anime community is not as big as many American anime fans believe it is. The American anime industry is estimated to have been worth roughly $500 million in 2004. By comparison, the American video game industry earned over $9 billion in 2004. That may help put things in perspective. During the early years of this decade, roughly 2000 until 2002, the massive mainstream American success of Pokemon and Dragonball helped the American anime industry double in size. But when Dragonball ran its course and mainstream interest in Pokemon died off, the American anime industry shrunk to a less artificially inflated size. With current anime television broadcasts exposing more mainstream viewers to anime, I have no doubts that the size of American anime fan community is expanding, but I don't think it's expanding as quickly as most Americans think.

I firmly believe that the foundation of America's anime fan community lies in individuals who are deeply devoted to the appreciation of Japanese animation. So regardless of where the American anime industry goes in the future, a core American fan community will always exist. Where there's a market, there will be an industry to satiate that market. Anime has established itself in America effectively enough that there will always be an American anime distribution industry, but lately there have been signs of a potential major upheaval in the American distribution business. I don't know for certain how massive or how obvious this shift will ultimately be, but it seems to have already begun. Before citing concrete examples, it's necessary to explain a precise context for them. There are signs that the American anime industry is constricting and beginning to suffer the consequences of its own excesses. The profitability of the American anime industry seems to be decreasing as a direct result of the industry's own policies and the actions of consumers influenced by the American anime industry.

There's been some recent discussion in the American fan community over the announcement from Bandai Japan that American Bandai Entertainment sales have remained steady or increased while profit has significantly decreased. Central Park Media has canceled numerous titles and laid off employees. AD Vision has directly run a sale offering consumers select ADV DVDs at up to 75% off. An un-named industry representative has been quoted to say that anime titles that would have sold well in former years do not sell well in the current market. Toei Animation has announced plans to begin distributing some of its anime titles directly. Shueisha has licensed the Naruto anime to its own domestic subsidiary. Bandai of Japan has done the same. The American company TOKYOPOP has apparently been bought out by Japanese owners. Shueisha is condensing its American subsidiaries ShoPro Entertainment and Viz. Manga Entertainment has been absorbed by a larger company. FUNimation is in negotiations to be absorbed by a larger company. These and many other circumstances imply that the American anime industry may be losing money. If sales remain steady but profit decreases, it's possibly because chain retailers are paying lower wholesale prices in order to pass along lower retail prices to consumers. Companies including AD Vision, Media Blasters and Central Park Media are heavily discounting releases and constantly re-releasing titles presumably in an effort to squeeze out whatever profits they can possibly get. Japanese companies may be moving toward distributing their own titles in America in an effort to cut out the middle man. If there's less profit to be earned in the domestic industry, we may be seeing Japanese companies that own anime attempting to collect profit directly instead of filtering it through domestic distributors. At the same time, the massive number of anime titles available in America, and especially the frequent re-release of titles, are a boon to fans but are also flooding a small market and cannibalizing the anime industry's own sales and ultimately its potential. As Geneon representative Nobu Yamamoto says in an interview in the April/May issue of Anime Insider magazine, "Companies are going to be more selective in what they release... Five years ago, there was a huge demand for just anything because there wasn't as much of a saturation. But consumers are savvy now. They know what's going on, what the buzz is behind and they're going to key in on those." Fans may argue that "mid-range" titles aren't worth supporting, but when consumers only buy "top tier" or high profile releases, the result is fewer anime titles being released in America, and an industry that can't afford to release a wide variety of anime domestically.

It's not my intention to lay blame or be alarmist. I'm only pointing out facts. I have no fear that the American anime fan community is shrinking. If anything, it's expanding. I have no reason to believe that the importation of anime into America will suddenly cease. However, there do seem to be unmistakable signs that the American anime industry isn't growing exponentially, and may even be shrinking in some vital areas. There are more and more anime titles being released in America, but each release seems to be selling fewer copies at a lower price. If that is indeed the case, there's simply no way that the American distribution industry can continue to survive on the strategy its employed over the past several years. I think that much of the industry itself is beginning to recognize that its excesses have undermined some of its long term stability. The future may prove me mistaken, but I believe that the domestic anime industry is finding itself forced to constrict and become less prolific, more corporate and less responsive to the small American hardcore fan community in order to remain profitable by streamlinging the distribution process.

----------------------------------------

I just wanted to add a bit more to this conversation.

I saw a short piece on The Screen Savers on G4TechTV within the past week-and-a-half on anime. It was mainly talking about the anime (feature) motion pictures being hyped for these past 6 months -- Ghost in the Shell 2, Steamboy, and Appleseed -- none of which have turned out to be great films, btw.

It was interesting to hear the Japanese that I've heard a million times --
a) it's too expensive to do hand-drawing anymore;
b) the people with the skills to do decent hand-drawn animation are leaving the anime industry in droves;
c) there's a slow, painful switch to CGI because of expense and reduced manpower, etc., etc...

Of course, this is just another media fluff piece so they DIDN'T give all the views on this subject.

Fact is, the average Japanese anime viewer HATES CGI characters. They've done the Toy Story/Monsters Inc. thing about a half-dozen times and the only full-CGI film that's made a dime in Japan (other than the Pixar flicks) has been the home-grown Appleseed. The other CGI pics were flops.

Japanese viewers apparently don't mind digital ink-and-paint, CGI ships and CGI backgrounds, but they DON'T LIKE TO SEE CGI HUMAN OR OTHER ORGANIC CHARACTERS. Seriously. They HATE CGI main characters. And a lot of anime directors feel the same, too.

A lot of the switches to increased computerization in anime production is being caused by the aforementioned shortfall in skilled labor (90% of the traditional workforce quits within 5 years because the pay's lousy) and the crush to produce more animation.

Anime is one of the few bright spots in Japanese industries but it's also something of a mixed bag right now...

As I stated before, the pay for the average Japanese animator is lousy. It's between $13,000 starting to roughly $25,000 after a few years. And if you know how much Japan costs to live in , you know that's even less money that it is in the US! That's why people are leaving the anime industry.

The increase in production output has NOT increased the average salaries of anime workers so Japanese are leaving the industry in droves. This is putting more pressure on the people left behind and fewer people are coming in who can draw and animate well. More and more shortcuts get taken in shows and people do notice this.

Also, there's been increased outsourcing of production outside of Japan to other Asian countries. Most outsourcing is going to Korea because that's been the traditional outsource destination, but also mainland China is getting an increasing slice of outsource work, too

It's not just American traditional animation that's suffering... And the main reason for the downfall on BOTH sides of the Pacific is the greed of the managers and money men at the top of both industries. They want more product but are unwilling to pay people a living wage AND recruit more people at decent starting salaries to handle an increasing workload.

Believe me, a lot of the people like me who have followed the anime scene for over 10 years now are NOT happy with the quality of many of the latest Japanese TV shows and feature films. The crush to produce more film output has resulted in lower quality work and less thought-out characterizations and storylines.

http://animated-news.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=328

 

[Shouta]

That's more or less what I've been telling folks for the last couple of years (both pieces) heh.

 

[Chrono]

Sorry to bump, but this article is really good.


http://www.latimes.com/search/cl-ca-anime20feb20,1,7423814.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

"Animation studios are surviving, animators are getting better paid, but the quality of new works is not improving," says Mamoru Oshii

"I think inside his head Miyazaki wants to destroy Japan," explains Oshii, dressed in baggy jeans and sitting in his studios near Tokyo.

"But even though he knows his generation has created a nasty society, he has this hope that children will make a better world. So he makes movies that families and the children can enjoy.

"And it won't change until he makes the movies he really wants to make: bloody works; lots of bloodshed." Oshii knows blood. When Quentin Tarantino needed a Japanese animator to create a 10-minute anime interlude for "Kill Bill Vol. 1," he turned to Oshii, who produced a gore-fest of butchered bodies.

"I think I am a model citizen in real life, but in my brain, that's different," Oshii says with a big smile. "Everybody has a fantasy of doing something bad. Sometimes I want to launch missiles into every building in Tokyo, so I create a movie like that. I am making films about what I am thinking about: missiles hitting buildings.

"But Miyazaki is hiding. He has a passion to destroy Japan, but he's not making what he really wants to make."

 

[Dead]

Oshii knows blood. When Quentin Tarantino needed a Japanese animator to create a 10-minute anime interlude for "Kill Bill Vol. 1," he turned to Oshii, who produced a gore-fest of butchered bodies.

what?

 

[Chrono]

Well he does work with Production I.G. and they did the Kill Bill animation sequence so maybe he was involved with it somehow. He's not listed in the cast though, LA times probably just made a mistake.

http://www.productionig.com/project.php?id=3&section=3

 

[J2 Cool]

Mamoru Oshii is a hack compared to Miyazaki, and you have no strength in your words because you can toss blood around. It's not hiding, that Miyazaki does, it's discipline. If you go a hundred miles per hour for an hour straight, somewhere in there you'll find yourself very comfortable. Miyazaki knows to slow the picture to a halt for some scenes, to see the small things. And he just as well knows how to pick the speed up. He's definetly a legend in the animation business as a whole.

In no way should he change his style. Because his immitators ruin things, should be no reflection on him. Just the same, you'd have a wave of imitators doing shitty pictures if he made blood bath flicks. Bottom line is, he's one of the truly greats in a business that does a good portion of shit. I think he's the most complete as well.

My favorite would have to be Shininchiro Wantanabe though, simply because he tries new things constantly. Cowboy Bebop is a work of genius. And beyond that, he made 2 extremely cool animatrix shorts. Visually amazing pieces. The sketch style Kid's Story, and the 40's detective film noir like Detective's Story. Both were amazing to see. Also, the Cowboy Bebop movie had an intro which I loved. When the music video starts up and the film switches over to 24 frames per second. The motion on everything emulates real life so well. I'm not even sure they didn't tape that and animate it, because it's brilliant. Champloo's also had it's fair share of amazing visuals, and is absolute top of the line in animated fights. That's a guy I admire. I really find myself rolling my eyes at the blood lovers though.. The ugly exagerrated poses just annoy me to no end.

 

[Shouta]

Mamoru Oshii is a hack compared to Miyazaki, and you have no strength in your words because you can toss blood around. It's not hiding, that Miyazaki does, it's discipline. If you go a hundred miles per hour for an hour straight, somewhere in there you'll find yourself very comfortable. Miyazaki knows to slow the picture to a halt for some scenes, to see the small things. And he just as well knows how to pick the speed up. He's definetly a legend in the animation business as a whole.

I'll ignore that hack statement for now since it's a whole other argument but Oshii has some good points throughout the article. He never attacked Miyazaki for his talent, he called out Miyazaki on safe (by playing up to the audiences) and not pushing out the ideas that he truly does want to. No one doubts Miyazaki is a legend in animation but he shouldn't be free of critcism (the article actually points soemthing like this out a bit later on)

Oshii has a point, in some regards. Miyazaki is a talented director, no doubt, but he is/has been making films for his audience and to empower them with hope rather than to make a statement of his own. While most of his films were incredibly fun to watch (and well done), most are very thematically connected, which is one of the reasons why Miyazaki films in general stickout in my mind.

There's an interesting part in the article that could possibly change a bit of understanding depending on the interpretation.

"And it won't change until he makes the movies he really wants to make: bloody works; lots of bloodshed."

This statement doesn't specify the context and can be misinterpreted fairly easily (yay for shoddy interviewing/article writing). To me, it seems that Oshii is saying that Miyazaki's hope for change won't come until he stops using his facade and start something that fits his heart (bloody works seems to be a term for more risque films). My interpretation puts a little more focus on what Oshii is saying ultimately and gives an idea of his thoughts on society as a whole.

 

[Brofist]

before they soil the medium that fantasia demonstrated as so wonderous

guess they should have stopped making films after Gone With the Wind also ehh

 

[Pochacco]

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