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WWE '12 |OT| The People's OT
- Thread starter Kaladin
- Start date
Same game as five years ago, same problems. I don't care if Brock Lesnar's in it, or if it's got a new name, or a NEW hat. Seems claims of a brand new engine are an outright lie, unless they spent all that time creating a brand new engine just like the old one. Seems wasteful, but what do I know?
Chopper said:
Are you seriously telling me that you've watched the demonstration videos and seen anything other than, at best, incremental improvements? Unless Yukes have finally pulled their thumb out of their collective ass for the first time in five years, and have for some reason been releasing videos and screenshots of SmackDown vs. Raw 2011 for the last few months, yes, this will pretty much the same damn game it is every year. With a new hat. And a whole bunch of DLC.
Otherwise I'd seriously consider getting this.Target
WWE '12 for $47 (includes The Rock playable character DLC)
Best Buy
WWE '12 - 360/PS3 - $59.99
Free WWE: The Rock DVD with purchase
Free The Rock DLC character with purchase
Kmart
Buy WWE 12, get a $20 gaming coupon.
Toys R Us
Free $10 Gift Card with purchase of WWE 2012 for Xbox 360 or PS3
11/20 - 11/23
WWE '12 for $47 (includes The Rock playable character DLC)
Best Buy
WWE '12 - 360/PS3 - $59.99
Free WWE: The Rock DVD with purchase
Free The Rock DLC character with purchase
Kmart
Buy WWE 12, get a $20 gaming coupon.
Toys R Us
Free $10 Gift Card with purchase of WWE 2012 for Xbox 360 or PS3
11/20 - 11/23
No Mercy has reached mythical proportions for many wrestling fans, but there have been many fun wrestling games since. Here Comes the Pain had a pretty good story mode that did a few small things that kept it dynamic (such as having similar events, but with totally new characters). I might be alone on this, but I liked SvR 07's dual stick grappling. It took some getting used to, but once you figured it out matches seemed really fluid and you had a ton of different moves at your disposal. 07 also had a really great roster, and it had a good number of legends that you didn't have to pay for (those were the days). Even 09 and 10 got pretty good reviews.
So while No Mercy is great (I still wish wrestling games would have the replay cam on repeat at the end of a match), there have definitely been wrestling games since worth playing.
So while No Mercy is great (I still wish wrestling games would have the replay cam on repeat at the end of a match), there have definitely been wrestling games since worth playing.
Chopper said:
Fair enough. Sorry, I suppose I jumped down your throat a little.
That IGN review just really put my back up. It's talking about how they've gone back to the drawing board and recognised what they were doing wasn't working and there's a new level of graphical polish and all this. Meanwhile, the accompanying video is pretty clearly contradicting it.
I'm not one to be paranoid of "moneyhatted" reviews, but I really don't trust IGN's reviews of the Smackdown series. They've always been overly optimistic compared to what I play when I get home. Not to say the game isn't going to be better than last years -- I certainly fucking hope so -- but I think it's best to wait for a better consensus of reviews before chalking this up as a better game.
The Elite
BOSS
Ithil said:
Neither do I. They've certainly built on it with their "new predator system" but they build on that same old engine every year. However, you can still see some of the same animations from the first Smackdown game every so often.
It's hilarious.
I'm still picking it up because I've liked some of the changes they've made over the years and have fun with the game.
I think people are misunderstanding what they mean by engine change. It's still the same graphics engine. They're not going to change that this generation. Hell, they didn't even change it from the transition from last generation. What they mean by engine change is their animation system, which is noticeably better. It's still not on the same level of TNA iMPACT or All-Stars from earlier this year, both made by the former Midway San Diego -- now THQ San Diego. But it's still better than the shitfest that was last year.Ithil said:
I think the thing with NM is mostly the timeless nature of its engine and people missing that depth/simplicity and those controls. I mean Revenge and all those other AKI-developed games are just as good for this reason.Forkball said:
But I definitely agree with those other sentiments in that SYM/HCTP/07/10 were all good enough and had great rosters in their own right. Don't really deserve any hate.
Overall, I'm not convinced 12 isn't just another retread with a fresh-coat of paint, but I'm willing to give it a shot after some more positive impressions here.
I'm just glad Road to Wrestlemania will be playable this year. Did anyone else hate last year's as much as I did? They should have never had a Japanese studio do the backstage bits, complete separation from the rest of the mode. I wish you could skip it all because that stuff made it unplayable.
The thing about the old animations is not necessarily a problem, or at least not its most pressing one. Not to put No Mercy on more of a pedestal, but the animations in that game, and the AKI games before it, are superb.
Some of them are in fact still better than any of the new animations from today. I've been playing No Mercy again for the last few days, and my god does it hold up well. That gameplay system is still excellent.
It isn't "realistic", I guess, in that it feels like a game you're playing rather than a match you're watching, but they're kidding themselves if they think the SVR or WWE 12 games actually look like real matches gameplay wise. They can add all the realistic camera angles and effects they like, it still moves and flows nothing like an actual match, just an awkward video game (and I do mean awkward, NM doesn't look awkward).
The gameplay system has some limitations, of course, but ones that would easily be expanded if you resurrected it (example, a sitting or kneeling opponent only has one grapple possible from the legs, nowadays you have a selection like any other position, fixed easily). The Royal Rumble match also, feels far more realistic than the current "health meter" type, if a lot harder. If you go over the ropes, you're done, just like in a real Rumble. You don't hang on while they push you for thirty seconds to get you health down. The CAW mode is fairly limited in NM, too, but that's purely an age thing, you can have the extensive system from today in it no problem.
This is actually a case of the old system being legitimately better than the current one from a gameplay standpoint, not just a nostalgia thing.
Some of them are in fact still better than any of the new animations from today. I've been playing No Mercy again for the last few days, and my god does it hold up well. That gameplay system is still excellent.
It isn't "realistic", I guess, in that it feels like a game you're playing rather than a match you're watching, but they're kidding themselves if they think the SVR or WWE 12 games actually look like real matches gameplay wise. They can add all the realistic camera angles and effects they like, it still moves and flows nothing like an actual match, just an awkward video game (and I do mean awkward, NM doesn't look awkward).
The gameplay system has some limitations, of course, but ones that would easily be expanded if you resurrected it (example, a sitting or kneeling opponent only has one grapple possible from the legs, nowadays you have a selection like any other position, fixed easily). The Royal Rumble match also, feels far more realistic than the current "health meter" type, if a lot harder. If you go over the ropes, you're done, just like in a real Rumble. You don't hang on while they push you for thirty seconds to get you health down. The CAW mode is fairly limited in NM, too, but that's purely an age thing, you can have the extensive system from today in it no problem.
This is actually a case of the old system being legitimately better than the current one from a gameplay standpoint, not just a nostalgia thing.
Nocturnowl
Member
I remember the sheer horror of walking too close to a Vladimir Koslov interview backstage and being trapped in the surrounding area for the duration of the speech.djsandman said:
JdFoX187 said:
I really don't see that much of a change, even when watching that demonstration video. I suppose animation transitions look marginally better, but they're claiming it's now "seamless" which it really isn't; even going from a pose to walking looks really bizarre. I'm not really an expert on rope physics, so I suppose I can't really comment on that, but there still seems to be a pretty noticeable problem with collision detection - and that isn't contained to just the ropes, and never has been. The idea of being able to interrupt animations seems like a smart idea, but it doesn't seem like they've done the necessary legwork to make it not look pretty clumsy.
I'm still not sure if they're going for a simulation or a more arcadey approach for these games. I'd guess the former, but it's still always an awkward hybrid.
I did laugh at them actually including Cena's comeback in the game.
Ninja Kn1ght
Member
Gotta love the way they used two pictures of The Rock five times.
They seem to do this every year with a new gameplay area. It's new, but it's clumsy and glitchy.Mr. Sam said:
The next year, it's mostly fixed/improved, but no longer a focus.
The voice acting in SVR original for instance, the recording was very bad in sound quality, it drowned out everything else, the people were all speaking quietly even in an in-ring promo, etc. The next year, in SVR 2006, the sound quality was much improved, they spoke at a normal volume, and it overall sounded good.
The create-a-finisher in 2009 was a good idea but very limited, and then fixed/expanded to be useful in 2010.
The physics last year were treated as a big deal, but to be honest, they sucked. Way over the top and very dated (they should have been in from around 2005/2006). This is a guess now, but I'm assuming they'll have been mostly improved this year.
Next year, they'll fix up problems with the Predator Technology, no doubt, and introduce some other clumsy new addition that needs work.
This is what happens with one year dev cycles.
I was only talking from a technical quality viewpoint.Mr. Sam said:
The acting itself has been generally terrible since it showed up. The wrestlers are a mixed bag when it comes to act at the best of times (some very good, others very, VERY bad), and taking them completely out of their element, away from the ring and the crowd, into a studio, brings a bad performance from pretty much everyone.
Triple H is not one for acting at the best of times, never mind talking into a headset in a small room.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Traded some games in with Amazon, and used the value to pre-order this. First one I'll have 'paid for' since SvR2009. I'll admit now:
I did it for The Rock.
I did it for The Rock.
The main problem with trying to make it "realistic" is that it will always inherently go against what makes a wrestling match in the real world.
In a game, the objective is to defeat your opponent. That is not the objective in a real wrestling match. In that, the objective is to put on an entertaining match, full of exciting spots, impressive technical grappling, and a story told throughout the match.
You don't do that in a game, in any game. You try to beat your opponent as swiftly as possible. The only "realistic" match possible is a squash match, one of the least entertaining matches possible.
There's a time that comes when you need to decide if you're making a wrestling game for gameplay or simulation. The two are simply opposites of each other in their current form. Kayfabe is always enforced in these games, and that's good, it shouldn't be dropped, but it means the matches will never feel like they do in real life, because it's not two performers working together to entertain the crowd, it's player 1 trying to beat player 2.
It's lovely to get the presentation as close to the show as possible, but this "it's more like the real thing than ever!" because your next strong grapple has a bit more animation between it and the previous one, is bullshit.
Do you want people to play a specialized fighting game, or to be like a real wrestler? They aren't the same thing.
In a game, the objective is to defeat your opponent. That is not the objective in a real wrestling match. In that, the objective is to put on an entertaining match, full of exciting spots, impressive technical grappling, and a story told throughout the match.
You don't do that in a game, in any game. You try to beat your opponent as swiftly as possible. The only "realistic" match possible is a squash match, one of the least entertaining matches possible.
There's a time that comes when you need to decide if you're making a wrestling game for gameplay or simulation. The two are simply opposites of each other in their current form. Kayfabe is always enforced in these games, and that's good, it shouldn't be dropped, but it means the matches will never feel like they do in real life, because it's not two performers working together to entertain the crowd, it's player 1 trying to beat player 2.
It's lovely to get the presentation as close to the show as possible, but this "it's more like the real thing than ever!" because your next strong grapple has a bit more animation between it and the previous one, is bullshit.
Do you want people to play a specialized fighting game, or to be like a real wrestler? They aren't the same thing.
The Elite
BOSS
Ithil said:
That's one thing that stuck out from the IGN review. I know they tend to mark out for WWE games but the fact that he specifically mentioned WWE 12 telling a story through a match has me interested. That's a big deal to me and I think the fundamental differences between the games and reality are spot on.
Mechanized
Member
Seeing the screenshots for these games make me always think about how awesome they'd look on PC, and the insane modding potential.
Also, does anyone know if you can use designs online this year?
Also, does anyone know if you can use designs online this year?