Liquidsnake
Banned
I thought it would be in the high 2's, so it actually did pretty well. Right?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
WWE Raw drops to lowest TV rating in 18 years
- Thread starter RBH
- Start date
- Status
I thought it would be in the high 2's, so it actually did pretty well. Right?
I'm legitimately stunned
hmmmm
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
The Shining Stars do it again!
Sweeney Tom
Banned
Link? Can't seem to find this info anywhere else
Tom Nook
Member
Not too bad, expecting at least one hour gets under 3.
Individually most people on the Nexus weren't great but the stable was something that should have been more important and lasted longer than Los Matadores did.
That's not to say that injuries and suspensions didn't have a role to play on that as well.
Cena's a loyal man, so I'm not so sure how much he argues against the writer's or Vince's ideas.
UberTag
Member
Cena's loyal but the dude's a master politician when it comes to going to bat for or against certain angles compared to someone like Roman Reigns who just smiles and nods with whatever he's given no matter how dumb it'll make him or his opponent look.
UberTag
Member
Wrestling fans are creatures of habit.
Quite impressive, all things considered.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
Cena is the draw, can't deny that
Liquidsnake
Banned
Now they are going to think that hour one is how they always need to start.
20 minute McMahon promo's is how they've started every Raw in the past four years.
Uhhh, I'm watching RAWs from 1999 that generally begin with Shane and/or Vince talking for an eternity. I do a lot of fast-forwarding...
The Silver
Member
AND HIS NAME IS.......
What does history care about what happened after? Nexus was the hottest angle they had going in years and they did their best to douse the flame as fast as possible. Everyone was taking the Nexus seriously as serious characters.
Even they knew they were hot at the time, they even changed a PPV to reflect the Nexus:
.jpg)
UberTag
Member
I'm not sure I've ever heard that argument.
More like, people would like to see Cena lose ONE feud. To someone that isn't Brock Lesnar.
Hell, his most exciting feud was with Edge and that was largely a 50/50 back-and-forth battle of wills.
Cena winning all the time and his opposition then being considered unworthy of breaking the glass ceiling and relegated to jobbing and mid-card filler is legitimately problematic.
That said, Owens probably shouldn't have won his feud. Nor should Styles. They need to build someone up for a lengthy period of time. Give them the Cena feud after they have established credibility and THEN Cena shouldn't win said feud. Rusev should have won his feud against Cena, IMO.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
The Usos.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
This.
The guy's gimmick is Never Give Up. It's what he'll always do. He tells you then does it. He's the guy who loses 0-5 times a year, and when he does, he overcomes the loss.
I like that WWE always has a couple of unbeatable guys. It's what makes Brock Lesnar special. It gives you a superstar who you'll always have an opinion on. They're as special as the title.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Here's a better question who has gained by being in a feud with Cena?
No one.
No one.
It is easy to never give up when you always win. A never give up gimmick would be losing most of his matches and then finally winning the big one.
Sami Zayn in NXT was a better Cena than Cena could ever be thanks to the way they book him.
But WWE keeps telling me wins and loses don't matter, so why does Cena need to always win?
Never Give Up =/= Always Win Always
Aii hit the nail on the head. Sami Zayn in NXT was a better Cena than Cena. Bayley is the same way. Hell, the biggest moment in Steve Austin's career is a "never give up" moment where he took a giant L against Bret Hart.
Daniel Bryan and CM Punk.
Never Give Up =/= Always Win Always
Aii hit the nail on the head. Sami Zayn in NXT was a better Cena than Cena. Bayley is the same way. Hell, the biggest moment in Steve Austin's career is a "never give up" moment where he took a giant L against Bret Hart.
Daniel Bryan and CM Punk.
UberTag
Member
I would argue Edge. Daniel Bryan. And CM Punk after a half-dozen or so false starts.
Sunflower would contend that everyone gains by being in a feud with John Cena.
Especially Damien Sandow.
They're lying to you.
Liquidsnake
Banned
They dragged Cena to decent matches, and they had to do it with Cena kicking and screaming.
Nah, I don't totally buy that. While I'm not a massive Cena fan, the guy does have the chops to put on some decent matches. His worse matches (read: his most Hogan-esque ones) tend to be the ones where he's up against mediocre wrestlers. Against people like Punk, Bryan, Owens, Zayn, or Cesaro, Cena suddenly puts on really good matches and has his own really good spots in them.
Barrage
Member
Kevin Owens.His win over Cena gave him immediate credibility, even to fans who had never heard of him. WWE only mentions Owen's win, the losses are obsessed about by smarks but the WWE never acknowledges them.
Lesnar's destruction of Cena at Summerslam gave him a Kayfabe invinicibility that he's STILL using, years later.
Bryan's win over Cena solidifed him as a top guy.
Punk's win over Cena at MITB took him to another tier.
Cena gave wins to RVD and Sheamus, they just weren't good/ level-headed enough to run with the ball.
No WWE main eventer has ever been MORE giving than Cena. Ever.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Sami Zayn is better for having a John Cena character to feud with. You know it.
I go back and forth regarding Owens and the fallout from his feud with Cena. The stuff you pointed out is definitely correct, Owens beating Cena clean as a fucking whistle in his debut put Owens on the map. The problem was that Cena beat Owens clean multiple times after that and Owens kind of languished in the mid-card for a while, at least until Zayn and Cesaro came back. Admittedly though, Owens is fucking fire right now and I think he's getting a gold briefcase soon.
False - Rock put over a fucking ton of people before he left the company as a full-timer.
UberTag
Member
Owens is flourishing because of Kevin Owens. Not because of a forgotten Cena feud.
And I'm not entirely convinced that he's getting that briefcase although he clearly deserves it.
This is the correct answer.
Barrage
Member
Rock was always willing to job,no doubt. But Cena brought Punk and Bryan to his level. Who did the Rock ever bring up once he was the face of the company?
By my count, I would say Jericho.
I think MITB is either going to be Owens or Rollins. Anyone else and it's a waste, except maybe Miz.
Rock put over Lesnar, Goldberg, and Hurricane Helms (Hurricane obviously wasn't on Rock's level though). Plus he took two huge L's to Austin at two WrestleManias when they were both the top draws.
UberTag
Member
The window has yet to close on Big Cass now that they've bested the Dudleys and the 7th MITB participant remains unnamed.
Brock Lesnar
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I'll bet you 50 bucks its not Big Cass if its anyone. If its anyone its Wyatt or Orton.
Part of the problem is I don't think WWE entirely knows how to make/find new superstars. People forget that a long time ago Cena actually did get over with crowds pretty organically, it wasn't until Vince started Hogan-pushing him that the split in the fans started to happen. The last two big names that got over naturally and could have been stars were Bryan (whom they mostly screwed up with) and Punk (who's no longer with the company, because they also screwed up with him). Now we're getting Roman Reigns who's getting a Cena-level push without any of the natural bond with the audience that Cena used to have.
UberTag
Member
I won't take you up on that. We still don't have a clear picture of the return timetables for Wyatt and Orton but it seems reasonable to assume that they would have announced the 7th participant in the match already unless they were waiting for someone on the shelf to get cleared. That said, Cass could easily be a fallback option... and it's not unheard of for Vince to pull a swerve on the day of the show and throw it on the guy who wasn't even supposed to be in the match.
OriginofHysteria
Banned
It also helped that Cena-Owens were always MOTY candidate worthy.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
If they had any fallback option its not Cass. Why would it be a random tag team member? I mean, I get your implication is that Vince spooges in his sleep thinking about Cass's height, but there's nothing to be gained by adding in a guy who isn't winning or doing anything. You might as well add Zack Ryder because at least you can argue he won a ladder match sort of recently.
Also, nobody really remembers the times Cena beat Owens. They say all the time "Owens beat Cena in his first match" on television and don't mention he also lost the next two matches.
Yeah, the Owens/Cena matches were all pretty damn good
- Status