• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

WWE Raw drops to lowest TV rating in 18 years

Status
Not open for further replies.
Everybody shits on Reigns, but pretty much every "big" match the guy has had has been good to great, and the slowly and believably escalating enmity between him and Styles (along with the incorporation of Styles' buddies from outside the WWE universe) has been one of the best main event feuds in the last several years, and the last Styles-Reigns match was fucking dope, outside of having too many false endings.
 

UberTag

Member
Everybody shits on Reigns, but pretty much every "big" match the guy has had has been good to great, and the slowly and believably escalating enmity between him and Styles (along with the incorporation of Styles' buddies from outside the WWE universe) has been one of the best main event feuds in the last several years, and the last Styles-Reigns match was fucking dope, outside of having too many false endings.
Most of the time when a Reigns match is bad it's due to booking (too many rest holds, too many false finishes, too much McMahon-Authority shenanigans, having him jump on 20 guys, lengthy naps outside the ring, lengthy nap backstage during the Rumble) over anything he does.

It's the booking surrounding Reigns people loathe. Not Roman himself. It's important to understand that. The one thing Roman rightfully gets dogged on is not saying no to shit booking that'll undermine him. That's the kind of lesson he needs to learn from Cena.
 

RBH

Member
From the latest issue of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter:


There was an interesting tweet recently by WWE’s Chief Revenue and Marketing Officer Michelle Wilson, noting that two-thirds of the viewers of “Total Divas” are new to the brand.

There’s probably something to that, given the audience makeup of “Total Divas” is completely different from every other show because it’s mostly comprised of women under 35 and teenage girls, audiences that have in the past had some affinity for pro wrestling at certain times, but as a general rule, not in large numbers.


The flip side is with that show garnering a new audience, that should, if anything, lead to increases in the other key products, Raw, Smackdown and arena business, which are not increasing at all, and in fact, so far this year, all three are in decline. But there is a change, particularly in Smackdown more than Raw, but it’s there in both, where the percentage of women viewers is increasing. What that indicates is that “Total Divas” is probably making some, not a lot of new female fans for the brand.

But that hides a huge problem that has gone almost completely overlooked. The core audience, the male viewership, has declined far greater than anyone has realized and more than a cursory look at ratings or arena attendance would indicate.

Nearly every long-time follower and people with long histories in the business that we’ve talked with of late has noted just from television and the reactions, combined with revenue that pro wrestling has become more-and-more a hardcore-based entertainment. It’s a smaller audience following wrestling than at any time, perhaps aside from the 1992-95 period when wrestling bottomed out, in the modern era.

The flip side is that audience is more into the product, because there is so much more too the product, because there is so much available. The few big events of the year are bigger than ever before, just because they are “big events” as opposed to in the past when big events were big events based on having the right attraction that clicks with the audience.


But the stuff that isn’t as big doesn’t matter as much. Because of the plethora of product, and also because that product, whether it be angles, storylines or match results, is less meaningful as far as repercussions, it’s harder to get a reaction.

But as far as the numbers watching the two key television shows, here’s the situation.

Smackdown is hard to judge because the numbers should have increased going to the more powerful network, and they did at first. But now they’re slightly below last year even with the network upgrade and the far better announcing. The thing with Smackdown is that the three hour exhaustion factor that hurts Raw at the end doesn’t play into effect as a two-hour show that is more wrestling oriented.

The issue with Smackdown is that it’s so much made into a “B” show (even, weirdly, they have by far the “A” announcing team because Lawler is revitalized and blows away JBL, and Ranallo is far and away the best announcer they’ve had in years). I thought with the move to USA, they’d try and equal it out more. But with Raw, while the women audience isn’t as hardcore (they tune out at a far faster rate than men, particularly for shows that drag), by percentage, they are holding steady while the overall audience is declining double digits. Thus, the actual decline in male viewership is stronger than anyone notices.

If there are also more women attending house shows, and given nobody knows if that’s the case or not, because overall attendance is down, that would also indicate the 16 percent drop in January and 8 percent drop in February would be even more within the male demo.

For example, the April 27, 2015 Raw did 2.6 million male viewers and 1.2 million female viewers. The April 28, 2014 Raw did 3.2 million male viewers and 1.4 million female viewers. But the April 25, 2016 Raw did 1,963,000 male viewers and 1,153,000 female viewers.

So you look and see a 32 percent drop over two years, and a 17 percent over one year and it does look bad.

But the male audience drop is actually 38 to 39 percent over two years and 24 to 25 percent over the past year.

The other aspect is when they tout so-called gains by percentages of women, that women are still down 18 percent over the past two years (although there is virtually no decline from last year) when it comes to Raw viewership, but the higher percentage of women viewers camouflages those declines because women, by percentage, are higher.
 

UberTag

Member
Roman/AJ is easily the most interesting title feud in months.
That's not a grand accomplishment when you consider what they passed off as "title feuds" for the 18 or so months up until that point. Rollins was a charismatic champion but his programs never came off as compelling even if his matches delivered. I would Reigns vs. Styles is easily the most interesting title feud since Bryan "The B+ Player" vs. The Authority... and in that program the champion (Orton) didn't matter.
 

Hycran

Banned
If we're talking about nitpicks we don't like; I'm not a fan of how wrestler's music always gets played right before they do a run in.

I always imagined it as the wrestler telling the sound guy to play it as he bolted through gorilla. In the modern era, he probably has an rfid chip implanted so the music plays automatically
 
Yeah, the lack of surprise when people run out is annoying, for whatever reason they think people need their music I guess to make sure the crowd knows who it is.
 

Acorn

Member
I always imagined it as the wrestler telling the sound guy to play it as he bolted through gorilla. In the modern era, he probably has an rfid chip implanted so the music plays automatically
I had a collection of wrestling figures that played the theme passing through the entrance lol
 
Everybody shits on Reigns, but pretty much every "big" match the guy has had has been good to great, and the slowly and believably escalating enmity between him and Styles (along with the incorporation of Styles' buddies from outside the WWE universe) has been one of the best main event feuds in the last several years, and the last Styles-Reigns match was fucking dope, outside of having too many false endings.

Which doesn't mean anything. Most of the roster are not having 20 minute main event matches with one of the best workers in the last 10 years with the top agents laying out the match. How "great" would his matches be if he was on WWE Superstars instead and not trading finishers and working the WWE main event style?

Everybody shits on Reigns because he never got over enough to warrant the push he's getting and it feels forced. Even Cena had a very vocal and die hard fanbase and it started when he became a top level babyface on Smackdown despite working the mid card with goofs like Kenzo Suzuki and Rene Dupree.

Roman/AJ is easily the most interesting title feud in months.

All this shows is how dull HHH and the authority is.
 
Everybody shits on Reigns, but pretty much every "big" match the guy has had has been good to great,
You must not have seen Wrestlemania because his match with HHH from start to finish was like the last half of an ironman match played back at half speed. The damn match started with a headlock into a headlock takedown that Roman sandbagged and slipped out of and just got slower and sloppier from there.

He's just a big strike followed by a couple minutes of dicking around followed by a thigh-high powerbomb followed by more dicking around. And every time he dicks around, the crowd does a chant for a wrestler they actually like. Is that the good to great part?
 
You must not have seen Wrestlemania because his match with HHH from start to finish was like the last half of an ironman match played back at half speed. The damn match started with a headlock into a headlock takedown that Roman sandbagged and slipped out of and just got slower and sloppier from there.

He's just a big strike followed by a couple minutes of dicking around followed by a thigh-high powerbomb followed by more dicking around. And every time he dicks around, the crowd does a chant for a wrestler they actually like. Is that the good to great part?

His match with HHH was like a solid 2.5 stars/5. It was a slow match, but the speed of a match is not necessarily material to whether the story told therein is good. It was the wrong match to have at the end of a 7-hour wrestling bonanza, but as a throwback to 80s-style main events, it worked quite well, with HHH intelligently picking Reigns apart and Reigns scouting his opening to mount a comeback. I went into it thinking it could either be great or shit, but left thinking it was merely solid - not as good as I was hoping, but not the pile of shit the internet deemed it before it even started. Wrestling fans are VERY bad about the first rule of criticism, which is that you must criticize what is actually before you, not what you wish it were.

That's not to mention the good to great matches he's had with Daniel Bryan, Randy Orton, that HIAC with Bray Wyatt, that fucking weirdly hateful and stiff match he had with Sheamus, that surprisingly pretty good match he had with Big Show, that match with Cesaro, and probably others I'm forgetting.

Your assessment of the crowd is fucking nuts, probably the most notable thing ABOUT Reigns is that despite the way the crowd usually shits on him when he enters, he pretty much always has them into the match by the end, because the guy knows how to tell a good, psychological story in the ring, always changes up the way he hits his big signature moves, has explosive-looking strikes, sells well and logically, etc. The guy is abysmal on the mic, and WWE obviously have NO clue how to book him, but I'l/l cop to pretty much always wanting to see the big PPV matches the guy has.
 
I was there. There are people who like Reigns. They got more excited at the end of the match and were obviously happy when he won. That doesn't mean that he won anybody over with his performance, it just means that people get tired of booing-- and that the bulk of the match didn't have anything that could pop his slack-jawed fanbase.
 

Hasney

Member
This is fun and could be a good reason why there's barely any point watching Raw.

According to North American Wrestling Rankings, WWE Superstar Dolph Ziggler reached his 400th televised match in WWE as a singles wrestler after his loss to Baron Corbin on the May 9 edition of Raw. This makes Ziggler the first man to have 400 televised single matches since the site first began tracking wrestler stats in 2006. Ziggler’s current record stands at 176 wins, 176 losses and 48 no-contests.

Literally 50/50 booking.
 

KAP151

Member
This is fun and could be a good reason why there's barely any point watching Raw.



Literally 50/50 booking.

Im sure they'll give him a meaningless push then he'll fade back into mid card at best status. Guy must be absolute sick of it. Literally the same shit year round.
 
Everybody shits on Reigns, but pretty much every "big" match the guy has had has been good to great, and the slowly and believably escalating enmity between him and Styles (along with the incorporation of Styles' buddies from outside the WWE universe) has been one of the best main event feuds in the last several years, and the last Styles-Reigns match was fucking dope, outside of having too many false endings.

He can hold up his end and that's about it.

If he's in the ring with someone good, the match will be good. If he's in the ring with someone who sucks, or whose style clashes against his, the match will suck since he can't adapt.

It's not that bad - we've had plenty of champions like that before - but it's not ideal.
 

twinturbo2

butthurt Heat fan
From the latest issue of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter:

Either it gets cancelled, since it clashes with the "No Divas" thing Steph has going... or they railroad the Four Horsewomen onto this show and everything's horrible again.
 
He can hold up his end and that's about it.

If he's in the ring with someone good, the match will be good. If he's in the ring with someone who sucks, or whose style clashes against his, the match will suck since he can't adapt.

It's not that bad - we've had plenty of champions like that before - but it's not ideal.

you mean he's.......Cena.

Vince funding a Cena/Rock clone theory is looking more and likely
 

Hasney

Member
MF5WRUV.jpg
.
 
There was a new Raw last night?
I was watching the Thunder / Warriors game so had no idea.

Did I miss an amazing match or segment?

Lol come on. You know the answer is no. There won't even be anything remotely interesting happen in their storylines until their savior Cena comes back on May 30th. They are in a holding pattern right now.
 

BigDug13

Member
you mean he's.......Cena.

Vince funding a Cena/Rock clone theory is looking more and likely

Cena had improved his repertoire of moves lately which Reigns really hasn't done. And Cena and the Rock can use the mic which Reigns clearly can't. So no, no cloning here.
 

Striker

Member
Cena had improved his repertoire of moves lately which Reigns really hasn't done. And Cena and the Rock can use the mic which Reigns clearly can't. So no, no cloning here.

Moves mean nothing. What, because he did a springboard stunner and one time did a Canadian Destroyer with Cesaro? Cena had a better move collection in 2002-2005 than he does now. His marketability is what matters. They can do that with Reigns, but truthfully they have done a poor job at it. Nothing really Reigns' fault. He's not a great speaker, I agree, but they should be handling that at a smarter pace than what they've been doing. Besides, Rollins held the title a long time and he's an equally bad speaker.

Ratings now aren't going to dip super far, but it's scary that it's in question since it's just May. It'll be dire in Sept-Dec.
 

UberTag

Member
Reigns and AJ need Paul Heyman to do all their promos
Heyman only does Roman's promos for him when he's feuding with Brock.
AJ will never be deemed worthy of Brock so that's a moot point (except at some random house show where they'll inevitably book a dream card that makes Wrestlemania look like ass).
 

Vestal

Junior Member
Moves mean nothing. What, because he did a springboard stunner and one time did a Canadian Destroyer with Cesaro? Cena had a better move collection in 2002-2005 than he does now. His marketability is what matters. They can do that with Reigns, but truthfully they have done a poor job at it. Nothing really Reigns' fault. He's not a great speaker, I agree, but they should be handling that at a smarter pace than what they've been doing. Besides, Rollins held the title a long time and he's an equally bad speaker.

Ratings now aren't going to dip super far, but it's scary that it's in question since it's just May. It'll be dire in Sept-Dec.

Rollins cuts a much better promo than Reigns. Not to mention that at least Rollins showed some sort of identity and character in his promos.

His problem was that he was wrestling a FACE style while being billed as the top heel in the company.
 

Striker

Member
Rollins cuts a much better promo than Reigns. Not to mention that at least Rollins showed some sort of identity and character in his promos.

His problem was that he was wrestling a FACE style while being billed as the top heel in the company.
They both come off as shit to me. Just always forgettable promos week after week.

As for ratings, this was 2015's on the go home show

Hour one: 3.824 million
Hour two: 3.853 million
Hour three: 3.385 million
5,000 less overall watching.
 

RBH

Member
On last night's Wrestling Observer Radio, Dave Meltzer mentioned that he recently got eyes on WWE's ad rates, and he mentioned that despite their viewership and market share (numbers most other cable shows would love), the ad rates they get are still fairly terrible.

He didn't give any specifics on prices, but put forth that the rates are significantly less than that of the UFC, which already gets lower rates than regular cable shows because of the violence factor that comes along with it. This is even more significant because the WWE does a million more viewers each week on average than the UFC, and even more than that for most cable shows which get those higher ad rates.

Dave posits that the WWE gets 1/10th the ad rates than that of a regular cable show, which is down significantly from the past when the WWE would get about half the cost in ad rates than the standard show.


Following this through to TNA, he speaks about ad rates being one of the big factors in Destination America dumping the promotion last year, and may be souring Pop TV on TNA right now. According to PWInsider, the ad rates for Impact are about $350 per 30 second spot, which is very, very low. And because of the revenue share aspect of the TV deal, Pop only sees half of that.

So, long story short: Wrestling fans still have a reputation for being cheap and advertisers aren't willing to spend any real money because of that. Vince's 30 year plan to calling pro wrestling "sports entertainment" has done nothing except bother his actual fans.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCir...tzer_wwe_ad_rates_are_17th_that_of_ufc_fight/
 

UberTag

Member
shocking news, advertising executives still view wrestling fans like this:

bray-wyatt-178848u4b9o.jpg
To be fair, the WWE's failure to capture any sort of mainstream audience and to drive all but the hardcore "creatures of habit" loyalists away due to monotonous, directionless programming has justified these rates.

The violence excuse is a cop out, IMO... it sure hasn't hurt The Walking Dead any.
 

yuraya

Member
So this past RAW had the lowest ratings of 2016?

Ouch. Its gonna be even more brutal once the NFL season starts.

Get your shit together Vince.
 

Anth0ny

Member
To be fair, the WWE's failure to capture any sort of mainstream audience and to drive all but the hardcore "creatures of habit" loyalists away due to monotonous, directionless programming has justified these rates.

The violence excuse is a cop out, IMO... it sure hasn't hurt The Walking Dead any.

I still imagine it's the ad execs sitting in a room and going "Wrestling?"

9b51qz8y.jpg


"You mean that FAKE shit? only people who watch that garbage are god damn hicks who can't read. they don't have MONEY. they won't BUY any of our products. fucking wrestling. FUCK. we are NOT associating with that low brow TRASH."

and then this happened...

51nuxjue35l._sx335_bojcl5n.jpg


...and absolutely zero perception changed as a result lol


we should all pitch in and make a wrasslegaf commercial for them to air
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom