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[[Nintex]]

After owning a Zune (ugh) and a 360 and watching Microsoft's behavior I get the feeling that success for Microsoft is just taking a decent sized share of the market away from your competitor and getting them to exhaust their resources by competing with you. I know they would have loved to have won the battle for the living room's entertainment hub, but I think their secondary objective was to split the market so that no one else would really win either.

Nah just read up on Robbie Bach and Moore. The plan was to launch a PS2 like system, subsidize it to make it affordable and sell as much as they could possibly produce. Bach and Moore hit a couple of walls, the biggest being the RROD that actually caused them to stop producing the systems for a short while untill a solution was found and that doesn't even cover the ammount of components that ended up in the garbage bin because of low yields. They pretty much lost the first year because of this and all because both were convinced that Sony would still launch PS3 in 2005 and the lack of info was just a scheme on Sony's part to catch Microsoft off guard... oops. Not to mention even the biggest Xbox fans were kinda pissed that Microsoft blew the head off their perfectly functioning Xbox and ported the remaining Xbox games(Kameo, Perfect Dark Zero) to the Xbox 360.

The second problem was the line-up, the Xbox 360 had good games from the get go but other titles like GRAW and such got delayed. The system also didn't catch on in Europe right away so Microsoft had to slow down their bulldozer, recover from some setbacks and then Nintendo jumped in with their funny Wii thing and turned the entire market upside down. If Bach and Moore hit a homerun back in 2005 they would've locked the generation right there because in the long term it was obvious the Xbox 360 was here to stay and most of the deals with third parties like Epic were already in place at that time but the early days were painful.

 

[CozMick]

Surely this must hurt Microsoft deep down.

A global super power and they couldn't break the most technically advanced country in the world?

 

[see5harp]

If they arent even going to spend money on it why bother launching there at all?

I didn't say they should just release something without marketing but it's clear that they spent a significant amount of money trying to launch in Japan with 360. Look at all of the third party RPG's that were released in the first couple years. Honestly in those years it wouldn't be absurd to play late night Burnout Paradise sessions and end up getting in a party of Japanese players, all playing with cameras and headsets. I'm not sure when things got really bad for 360 in Japan but somewhere along the line PS3 became a bit more affordable and firmware improvements made online gaming a lot more paletable.

 

[Jeels]

I wish Microsoft actually continued their support for Japanese development. Because what ended up happening was for the longest time this generation the PS3 wasn't getting JRPG titles it should have obviously been getting, then it completely reversed and the 360 wasn't getting things it was previously somehow exclusively getting. It really split the JRPG base this generation, and beyond the handheld factor, I'd partially blame Microsoft for the lack of quality console JRPGs this generation.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Quick question, when was the last time an American made video game only machine succeeded in Japan?

 

[Vanillalite]

I wonder what the Japanese public think of Xbox Live. That seems to be a big selling point especially in NA. Considering Live seems to fit more for Western games like CoD, Halo, Madden, Gears, and FIFA though it makes me wonder what people in Japan think of having to pay for a Gold sub verses getting a PS3 and using the free PSN.

 

[LegatoB]

;_;

On the upside, at least this means I won't have to feel too bad about never buying a J360, aside from a distinct lack of Senko no Ronde 2 in my life.

 

[CozMick]

I wonder what the Japanese public think of Xbox Live. That seems to be a big selling point especially in NA. Considering Live seems to fit more for Western games like CoD, Halo, Madden, Gears, and FIFA though it makes me wonder what people in Japan think of having to pay for a Gold sub verses getting a PS3 and using the free PSN.

I actually don't think the western games theory is correct.

On PSN games like MAG, Uncharted, Resistance, Killzone and Socom have lots and lots of Japanese players...sometimes almost too many when latency is concerned.

So either they love the free aspect of PSN or just plain dislike the 360.

 

[Princess Skittles]

It really is odd how they still attempted to win over Japan. Looks like the Japanese won't change their brand and are absolutely faithful to Sony.

Brand loyalty to Sony only seemed to get them so far on the PS3 (enough to not let the system arrive DOA, at least).

The Wii and DS absolutely dominated Japan this generation and it wasn't until the surprise success of Monster Hunter that the PSP picked up steam.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I wonder what the Japanese public think of Xbox Live. That seems to be a big selling point especially in NA. Considering Live seems to fit more for Western games like CoD, Halo, Madden, Gears, and FIFA though it makes me wonder what people in Japan think of having to pay for a Gold sub verses getting a PS3 and using the free PSN.

Online has been very slow to adopt over in Japan. And paying to play for online isn't such a new concept to them. After all, Sony and all their publishers charged for online play with the PS2. Even Sega charged to play the first PSO only in Japan.

Someone told me once and this could be bullshit that talking to strangers is considered rude so playing online and talking to people you don't know was very, very slow to take off. They aren't like the US players who sing into the mic at 12 years old. The lack of an online presence has a lot to do with it since it's one of the 360's key selling points.

Also, there is the fact that the PS3 was a better priced product in Japan versus the rest of the world so they had stiffer competition. The PS3 was just barely over $100 more at launch than the PS2 was and where the 20gig was dead soon after launch in the rest of the world, in Japan the 20gig was sold for over a year after launch.

I honestly don't think any American game machine can break into Japan regardless of who makes it.

Brand loyalty to Sony only seemed to get them so far on the PS3 (enough to not let the system arrive DOA, at least).

The Wii and DS absolutely dominated Japan this generation and it wasn't until the surprise success of Monster Hunter that the PSP picked up steam.

Also, Japan has traditionally been a one console country. There has always been one super dominate console at a time.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Well..Cave is pulling out of the system anyway so eh...not a huge loss.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Wonder what will happen to Cave? Stick to iPhones exclusively?

I think their next game is a mobile exclusive... so possibly. Sad to see such a great company become irrelevant.

 

[sublimit]

Maybe it needed more moneyhatting at Japanese publishers?

 

[Mr Killemgood]

There are systems that have aged worse in Japan.

Not only that, the 360 managed a lot more sales in Japan than the Xbox did. 1.5 million sold vs. <500k

 

[Princess Skittles]

Also, Japan has traditionally been a one console country. There has always been one super dominate console at a time.

Didn't the Famicom and PC-Engine co-exist to a degree?

Also, the Saturn and PS1.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

Didn't it sell way more than the original xbox? That is something... I guess.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Maybe it needed more moneyhatting at Japanese publishers?

A Japanese developer once said that Microsoft didn't "money hat" them, what they did was loan them free dev kits at a time when they couldn't even pay for them from Sony because of the lack of product. You can only go so far with making games without dev kits and support which MS basically gave them for free. Was a very smart move since it didn't cost them any real money to do it yet they were able to get exclusives just by default.

 

[Takao]

Edge is just kind of late to the party with this story. 360 has been dead since forever.

 

[RukusProvider]

One of the biggest reasons MS went after Japan early in the generation is due to the impact the Japanese development had in previous generations. Their goal was to put the time and money in to secure support.

However, this generation has mainly been dominated by western developers and even the bigger Japanese publishers seem to be focus on catering to the western user base. Kojima and others have routinely emphasized how Japan has fallen behind.

Going forward and especially next generation, MS should shift that early Japan focus to Europe. The big Japanese publishers will cater to the next Xbox fine as long as it does well in other markets.

There is no reason for MS to continue dumping money into Japan.

 

[JustAnotherOtaku]

Yet it has an outstanding library of Japanese games if you're into shmups and the more niche stuff. I have at least 15 games in my J-360 collection that never came out of Japan and are really enjoyable.

 

[sublimit]

A Japanese developer once said that Microsoft didn't "money hat" them, what they did was loan them free dev kits at a time when they couldn't even pay for them from Sony because of the lack of product. You can only go so far with making games without dev kits and support which MS basically gave them for free. Was a very smart move since it didn't cost them any real money to do it yet they were able to get exclusives just by default.

Which company he worked for?

 

[Princess Skittles]

I think their next game is a mobile exclusive... so possibly. Sad to see such a great company become irrelevant.

It's too that bad core gamers don't support niche genres, they are the ones responsible for companies like Cave looking towards mobile development.

 

[TheOddOne]

Slow news day! YAH!

 

[Princess Skittles]

One of the biggest reasons MS went after Japan early in the generation is due to the impact the Japanese development had in previous generations. Their goal was to put the time and money in to secure support.

However, this generation has mainly been dominated by western developers and even the bigger Japanese publishers seem to be focus on catering to the western user base. Kojima and others have routinely emphasized how Japan has fallen behind.

God damn, that is an EXCELLENT point that I haven't really seen discussed before on this. Bravo.

 

[ScionOfTheRisingSun]

I'd say the PS3 hasn't fared much better either, no thanks to SONY being so oblivious to the needs of their domestic market.

Japan has been on a one track trip towards portable town for a long while now. But look on the bright side, when the home console business experiences its second collapse in the west we can all say, Japan was ahead of the times once again.

 

[AgentChris]

With Nintendo & PlayStation, Xbox will always be dead in Japan.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

God damn, that is an EXCELLENT point that I haven't really seen discussed before on this. Bravo.

I really doubt there will be a big push next gen from MS to secure Japanese development. I think because they aren't what they used to be in previous gens and the system has established itself in the rest of the world so Japanese game makers will support it regardless to obtain those sales.

Which company he worked for?

Namco, it was in regards to why Tales of Vesperia was on 360.

 

[iconoclast]

I think their next game is a mobile exclusive... so possibly. Sad to see such a great company become irrelevant.

Eh, I wouldn't call it "their next game." Cave's next game, as far as I'm concerned, is whatever the core team puts out (Ikeda, Yagawa, Ichimura, etc.), not some random mobile division.

Well, unless the core team is actually working on the WP7 game. In that case, the future is bleak.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I'll definitely say that XBLA needs to be pushed for the rest of this and into the next generation. It receives an unusual amount of exclusive Japanese support as is and if I were MS I'd do something to hang onto that.

 

[Princess Skittles]

With portables, consoles will always be dead in Japan.

Fixed.

I'd say the PS3 hasn't fared much better either, no thanks to SONY being so oblivious to the needs of their domestic market.

In terms of software? That's the thing that's driving me crazy with the PS Vita. They are pushing Uncharted and Killzone so much but the PSP had its second coming (in Japan) due to Monster Hunter and (as far as I know), there's no comparable product at or near launch. I can't beleive they're launching it first in Japan and with dudebro games. It blows my mind.

Japan has been on a one track trip towards portable town for a long while now. But look on the bright side, when the home console business experiences its second collapse in the west we can all say, Japan was ahead of the times once again.

:lol

 

[Persona7]

Poor hardware quality, very western centric-games (despite a handful of money-hatted RPGs) and generally lower uptake of online gaming meant this was inevitable. Will be interesting to see their strategy next gen.

PS2 sales were not affected by shoddy manufacturing quality.

 

[GotEmRunnin]

only Shenmue can save them now.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Eh, I wouldn't call it "their next game." Cave's next game, as far as I'm concerned, is whatever the core team puts out (Ikeda, Yagawa, Ichimura, etc.), not some random mobile division.

Well, unless the core team is actually working on the WP7 game. In that case, the future is bleak.

Didn't realize they had multiple teams... I just assumed it was the normal Cave dudes working on it. Cuz there's only what... like seven of 'em?

 

[strem]

These people buy iDOLM@STER, Summer Session and have dinner with pillows of hentai, who gives a flying fuck.

HAHAHA I must that I have to agree

 

[Dai101]

only Shenmue can save them now.

 

[RedSwirl]

MS was convinced they needed Japan to be successful this (last) gen. JPN probably represented 1.5% of all X360 hardware sales, and maybe 0.5% of its software sales. Who need's 'em.

Now that MS knows better, I can't see them wasting anywhere near the resources on Japan this time around.

I think what Microsoft was worried about more than anything was Japanese developer support, and more or less they got it - or what little Japanese devs made for consoles this gen by sheer necessity on their part.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

I think their next game is a mobile exclusive... so possibly. Sad to see such a great company become irrelevant.

Cave is more relevant to the Western market on iOS than they ever were on 360.

Anyway, I don't think they intend to give up console/arcade development entirely, even if they plan to expand their focus on mobile/social games. It should be noted their next iOS game, Castle Creator, is a port of a game they already have on Japanese phones.

 

[Takao]

In terms of software? That's the thing that's driving me crazy with the PS Vita. They are pushing Uncharted and Killzone so much but the PSP had its second coming (in Japan) due to Monster Hunter and (as far as I know), there's no comparable product at or near launch. I can't beleive they're launching it first in Japan and with dudebro games. It blows my mind.

Here are the PSP's launch window titles in Japan from way back in the days of December 2004:

[PSP] Ridge Racers (Namco) - 60,163 / 273,521
[PSP] Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee (SCE) - 66,079 / 399,257
[PSP] Dynasty Warriors (Koei) - 56,425 / 286,284

Oh hey, each of those games have been announced for Vita, and will likely make launch.

 

[SneakyStephan]

lol 79p games and 70 dollar consoles, seems Japan aren't suckers and if they don't want something they don't want it.

 

[Princess Skittles]

Here are the PSP's launch window titles in Japan from way back in the days of December 2004:

[PSP] Ridge Racers (Namco) - 60,163 / 273,521
[PSP] Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee (SCE) - 66,079 / 399,257
[PSP] Dynasty Warriors (Koei) - 56,425 / 286,284

Oh hey, each of those games have been announced for Vita, and will likely make launch.

Right and two of those launched on the 3DS as well (and.. pretty much every other system in the last decade). I suspect they will do for the Vita what they did for the 3DS.

 

[Hiro_Kunimi_80]

i don't think they really care about this situation... home console are dead in Japan moreover the importance of european market like France, Germany are way more higher than "sell something in japan"

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

The original shipment never sold out..... think about that.

It seems reeeally unlikely that they'd put more Xboxes out to market on the first week than were available for, say, PS3/Wii/PSP/most other launches.

 

[Takao]

Right and two of those launched on the 3DS as well (and.. pretty much every other system in the last decade). I suspect they will do for the Vita what they did for the 3DS.

Ridge Racer also launched on DS, and sold like shit, yet would sell well on PSP. Both Dynasty Warriors, and Ridge Racer are largely bought by the audience who buys PlayStation platforms, because by and large, they're seen as series for those platforms. Comparing the crappy sales of the 3DS iterations (of which the 3DS doesn't have a Dynasty Warriors game) is a faulty one. Ridge Racer 3D had everything going against it given the 30fps, almost PSP-like graphics, and none big member development squad. Ridge Racer Vita will have most of the staff from Ridge Racer 7, and Ridge Racer on PSP working on it.

 

[sublimit]

Namco, it was in regards to why Tales of Vesperia was on 360.

Do you really believe that a company like Namco couldn't afford to buy PS3 dev kits?And it's not like they didn't released PS3 games prior to TOV.I'm not saying that what he said didn't happened (since MS was far more desperate to establish their console there than Sony) but i'm sure Namco also got a fair amount of money from MS to secure the time-exclusive of TOV.

 

[Mailenstein]

Watcha gonna do, CAVE?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

(of which the 3DS doesn't have a Dynasty Warriors game)

That's really splitting Koei Musou hairs.

EDIT: Also worth noting, doesn't seem like they even bothered releasing RR DS in Japan.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Microsoft made a decent effort to establish the 360 in Japan early in the system's life, even managing to score quite a few notable exclusives, but it never seemed to reach beyond the hardcore and it's been clear that Japan has not been a priority for Microsoft in years. Now it looks as if the console is being phased out.

Link

I always thought Microsoft should have spent it's time, effort and money on mainland Europe instead of Japan, as they would have been much more likely to make a breakthrough there. Mind you, I have no idea what kind of Europe-focused exclusives they could nab other than football-related ones, and let's face it, FIFA more or less dominates in that area.

 

[charsace]

We would have gotten more Japanese games if the 360 would have had some moderate success. MS was willing to finance them too.

 

[bullet_happy]

But all those Shmups.

Who needs a X360 in Japan to play these babies? Seriously.

 

[Kyon]

So the 360 is dead where it doesn't matter, and the PS3 is dead where it actually matters.

This post is so ignorant. How can one country matter over another? Unless you have the mindset of NA=World right?