XXL
Gold Member
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"Xbox Game Pass Standard" is launching in September
GHG
Gold Member
Why does it have to be from Phil himself when their content acquisition team (that reports to Phil) were going around using that sort of messaging in their pitches?
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
That is also true. Pandemic helped a lot and helped set up false expectations of GP growth.
But there was a lot of positive sentiment for Xbox as well in 2020 - due to fake Xbox promises, coupled with an organized FUD campaign against PlayStation (anyone remember the (1) PS5 is only 9.2 TF and (2) Sony desperately needs a GP equivalent and must put its games on PS Plus day one if they want to compete?)
ChorizoPicozo
Member
you are all over the place my dude.
Do you see yourself as a dog or something?... not even "trained" dogs act like this
so.. do you see yourself just as a pice of code unable to act outside the instructions you are given?
its embarassing you think you have a smart argument.
1. has MS "trained" it's consumers to not buy games when they market the hell out of Game Pass?
+
2. all the Xbox influencers making songs about Game Pass, telling the audience GP is the best deal in gaming...."oh, I will wait until comes to game pass" etc...
=
we have data and devs saying that GP has indeed hurt games sales in that ecosystem.
thats it, nothing nonsensical about it.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Yeah, they be coming to PS5 6-12 Months earlier than GamePass.
I honeslty wonder if they'll release the Playstation versions and Game Pass Standard versions at the same time and market it as "Now available on Playstation and Game Pass Standard!" as a way to try to breath a second life into their game sales a year down the line.
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Oh boy, here we go.
I would love to see this and some of the usual suspects try to spin this.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Their games fall especially fast because they haven't put out a system seller in over a decade.
So no, this isn't the argument you think it is.
Microsoft games are not special enough to warrant 240 dollars annually. The industry certainly doesn't think so, because most people won't even buy Xbox hardware for 250-300 dollars once, let alone every year and no one is buying their games.
Gambit2483
Member
They would create too much customer outrage if they (initially) make standard tier wait more than 3 months. They would either cave and upgrade (while still feeling salty about it) or cancel in protest and spite and potentially be a lost customer permanently.
The entire point of Gamepass was "Day one". If they detour too far from that the entire service will most likely crash. It's not transitioning into a PS+ sub service
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
My son and his friends have been conditioned not to buy games, with the exception of COD and EAFC (formally FIFA)
A few weeks ago I asked him to look up how much Football Manager was on the switch. He laughed because I had to pay for it where it's "Free" on Gamepass.
Now COD is on GP, the only game him and his chums will pay for is EAFC. Everything else doesn't get touched unless it's on GP or free to play, like Fortnite or Rocket League.
FewRope
Member
And they wont be capable of selling any games because Xbox users are just going to wait for GP, its a never-ending cycle they literally cannot get out of
bender
What time is it?
Anecdotal sure, but it's altered my purchasing habits a bunch. I've owned the Series X since launch and have only purchased FH5, FlightSim, and Dead Space Remake and the later only because it was on a crazy discount ($8.99) soon after launch. Further, because the Xbox division has done such a good job of securing indie and smaller titles, I don't buy a ton of those either as they usually launch day-and-date on Xbox, and if they don't, I always have it in the back of my head that they will come sooner or later (The Dredge being the latest example). To be fair, Game Pass has influenced me to purchase a few titles: Hi-Fi Rush (PC) and Infernax (Switch Physical). I'll eventually pickup Psychonauts 2 as well but it just hasn't hit a deep enough discount on PC yet. So for me, Game Pass has lowered my purchasing habits on and off of the Xbox platform and rarely does playing a game on Game Pass influence me to purchase a game outright which we've been told is a common practice.
One thing Phil said that I do find is true is about Xbox losing the wrong generation (PS4/Xbone). I'd say my digital purchases were split pretty evenly during the PS3/360 era and I skipped out on the Bone until One X launch which at that point had a Game Pass option. 99% of my digital purchases were made on PS4 and you tend to stick to were you biggest libraries are at which is why most of my Xbox digital library consists of OG Xbox/360 games with only a handful of Bone/Series titles.
Bernardougf
Member
Increase in prices are expected, 5 dollars is nothing, they didnt lie when they said that no increase would come after the ABK acquisition and they all love phils load in their mouth.
Basically this.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
Stop lying. They all want Matt's BOOTY
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Bernardougf
Member
Not even this... there is no grantee that any PS game will come to ps plus .... there is nothing anywere that says that they will or have to go to ps plus ....
So if MS tomorrow says every MS game is coming to gamepass 6-12 months down the line... it already fucked the sales ... we have example of people in this forum waiting happily 4 years to play 19$ crash trilogy because they simple will not buy games not even cheap ones they want.
Until MS cancel gamepass they wont sell games to their fans. Period. This ship has sailed long time ago.
bender
What time is it?
Maybe I'm reading the "immediately muting this" part, but why post on Twitter in the first place if you don't want a discussion? Studying how and why video games have sold for twenty years is valuable but other forms of media have been disrupted because of subscription models.
*shrug*
Mr.Phoenix
Member
That's what is smart about what MS is doing. They are not canceling features from the existing tier. Instead, they increased the prices of all tiers, while at the same time, adding a new tier with cut-down features. So if you want to get day 1, then it's on you to pay for it. If you don't but are willing to wait a bit, then get the one that lacks day 1.
They are still slowly sticking it to their userbase, but they are going about it in a smart way. Which is expected if you ask me, this is something MS is very very very good at doing. And was bound to happen, and those of us that know this called this shit out years ago.
Nydius
Member
You cannot be serious. If you are, must be nice to see the world through blinders keeping you from being able to view the truth.
How have you been able to miss the last several years of "Game Pass when?!" begging from the Xbox crowd any time a new, high profile, release came out that skipped the service? Or all the "I'll wait for Game Pass" or "Looks like a Game Pass game" or, or, or...
Microsoft spent years claiming that Game Pass didn't affect sales and actually tried arguing that Game Pass users actually spent more on games and addons. Until they were forced to admit during the CMA and FTC hearings that those were all lies and Game Pass was, in fact, significantly cannibalizing overall game sales on the platform. They actively used that as a line of logic for why they should be allowed to acquire ABK.
Multiple third party publishers have described that sales on Xbox platforms are markedly worse than PlayStation and/or Switch for multiplatform releases, and that's not just due to the difference in install base. It's a symptom of people expecting games on their subscription service.
Not long ago, indie devs complained that it wasn't worth putting their games on Xbox platforms unless they got a Game Pass deal because their games wouldn't sell on Xbox.
Game Pass has absolutely "trained" Xbox gamers to not buy games. And you're right that if it went away, they'd probably start buying games again. Not all of them would. Many would simply hold out for deep sales or buy used and never buy new. But the overall damage to the industry -- and the Xbox brand as a whole -- has already been done.
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Dick Jones
Gold Member
The strong portion of gamers conditioned to not buy will likely stop gaming or go to free 2 play mobile games after the current Xbox is packed away. After that, the bar to buy new games (full price) is likely to rise exponentially for those who remain as they will wait for a deep discount. Because they will wait for Gamepass. There is less incentive for third party publishers to port if there is no money to be made and it will make Xbox less desirable to new customers. The Xbox customer base will spend significantly less than the other platform holders. I can't see the Xbox brand living on in the next gen.
Pelta88
Member
I agree.
Which is why all the public statements about not raising prices are hilarious. As is those that parroted the PR.
AyraSutoraifu
Member
With hardware crashing and GP price increasing i'm wondering where it will end...
Topher
Identifies as young
Mat does not like to be questioned. That little "but what do I know" crying routine is not uncommon.
Dick Jones
Gold Member
You mean a "Long awaited price hike
"
eerik9000
Member
PlayStation Now initially launched as streaming rental service, but changed to subscription model in January 2015 (2.5 years before Game Pass!!!) and introduced download option in September 2018. PlayStation Now branding was dropped when the service was merged with PlayStation Plus in May 2022.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Topher
Identifies as young
Correct. I took your wording of it being "rebranded to PlayStation Plus" as to mean PS Now came first. No worries.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
With the XBL Gold/Game Pass Core -> Game Pass Ultimate conversion trick, is 2 years of GPU the most I can add? I know it's a 3:2 ratio but you could add 3 years of GPU in the past. Not sure if that's changed with that new ratio.
SoraNoKuni
Member
But I thought it was the most profitable fool proof plan in the entire history of gaming and in multiple universes.
It didn't make sense to keep it at that price, nor to mention their 1-3$ promotions just to gather users, actually from the start, making a digital "renting" subscription as in video clubs of 00s was stupid.
It didn't make sense to keep it at that price, nor to mention their 1-3$ promotions just to gather users, actually from the start, making a digital "renting" subscription as in video clubs of 00s was stupid.
dragonyeuw
Member
skit_data
Member
Yeah I guess they could go with something along those lines. Gonna be hard to ever attach that tagline to any piece of marketing when there are so many tier options that doesn't provide it, though.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
No, you can still add a max of 3 years. The conversion has just changed because before you could do 3 : 3, now you need to do another year separately if converting.
I re-upped by sub to May 2027 yesterday before they inevitably increase the Reward Point values post this price adjustment.
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Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
You could theoretically convert for 24 months then add another 12 through other means.
dragonyeuw
Member
Yeah I was just taking the piss, they'll 'read the fine print' the marketing for it. Actually I have no effing idea what Xbox is doing.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The support page says 'some games' will not be available day 1, not all games.
For the one's that will be PC/Ultimate only, they can just add the appropriate tag in the trailer / PR.
Dr. Wilkinson
Gold Member
Honest to God, just simplify this and get rid of Game Pass Core. Just have Standard and Utimate. Both include "Xbox Live". That's it.
skit_data
Member
That doesn't sound like some games will be released day 1 though?
Anyway, my whole point was that when they start putting specifics and prerequisites around it it kinda loses that established PR they've tried to hammer in for years, effectively negating a lot of work already invested in GPs (previous) USP.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
That doesn't sound like some games will be released day 1 though?
Anyway, my whole point was that when they start putting specifics and prerequisites around it it kinda loses that established PR they've tried to hammer in for years, effectively negating a lot of work already invested in GPs (previous) USP.
Yes,
Ass of Can Whooping
pointed that out to me in the other thread. The separation and classifications are all muddled right now.Should have just ditched Core at this point.
in the real world, their games get discounted at about the same rate as others not named Nintendo. Aside from obvious outliers like Redfall, of course. We got discounts for Returnal, Rift Apart and Demon Souls in short order. Glancing at Amazon, Forza Horizon 5 seems to be at around the same relative price discount as Ragnarok and HFW. Won’t even go into price drops for EA or Ubisoft games.
But it’s OK to hold on to dreams.
I’d hope anyone on an enthusiast gaming forum isn’t paying $240 for GamePass Ultimate, when deals abound for savvy shoppers. I’d also hope they knew enough about the service to know it’s got both 1st and 3rd party games in it. And that a component of that included online subscription fees that pretty much everyone into online console MP pays.
More people are buying other consoles as their sole console hardware because those have - in their estimation - higher value than the Xbox consoles. Or they’ve got a capable PC. And that’s perfectly fine. Most people have limited budgets and have to make a choice.
Not me, though.
Sea of Thieves seems to be selling very well
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bender
What time is it?
They'd lose a lot of revenue for people willing to pay for online but not interested in a game subscription service.
Topher
Identifies as young
Especially considering Core is the only one with an annual discounted rate.
Rick Dangerous
Member
Subscription models are not designed for user benefits (here gamers) they're designed by awful greedy companies to maximise profit, worst of them being Microsoft. Tactic was so readable,.nobody should be surprised. And i don't want gaming to be an investment place but be the place where creators flourish.
Klayzer
Member
Truth.
isn’t that pretty much like PS Plus Extra?
I pay for that. I’ve never thought Extra was ‘hilarious’.
Not sure how we’ve gone from “it’s unprofitable” to “it’s a greedy model designed to maximize profit more than the usual retail strategy”.
This may well be the most hilarious thing I’ve read all week. How/why do you think these AAA games (and a hefty portion of AA games) you love get funded by Publishers?
Fess
Member
They’re pushing people to PC with these changes, console users are paying nearly twice as much if they want day 1 games. The Console tier goes poof and Standard don’t have day 1 games, only Ultimate on console does day 1 games.
Yes people might eventually cancel their sub and start buying games… But if they’re moving people to PC they’ll buy games on Steam.
What’s their plan here going by these moves and previous next gen rumours?
1. Move Xbox gamers to PC.
2. Release a living room PC console hybrid.
3. Steam access on the hybrid.
4. Use Geforce Now for streaming.
5. Push streaming/GFN to every device.
What’s left of Xbox in this equation is the Xbox logo in the PC app and the Xbox word in the Xbox Game Pass title.
Are these Sarah Bond’s moves? Or is she just the fallguy? Things has accelerated since she stepped in as the Xbox boss. Maybe she’s a master mind idk but right now I’m just glad I’m on PC and can look at the train wreck from afar.