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[Damigos]

Series S of course
Since it cost them so much i am sure next gen (if there is one from MS) xbox will not come with 2 specs like Series did

 

[Brucey]

They are actually investing money into finding out why this happens?

About 10 years too late

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Microsoft Gaming has unveiled an expansion to its Xbox Research initiative, through which it aims to get more and better feedback from video game developers on various subjects, with the aim of improving its tools and services. The aim is to listen to employees at Xbox ecosystem partners to connect them with their internal teams to talk about how to improve their future tools. Microsoft Gaming believes that by talking directly to game developers, they will get important information that will help solve the main problems they experience on their side.

It's a forward-thinking initiative for the brand in supporting developers, focused on those who work on the video games we play, on a global scale and for production companies of any size.

Microsoft is expanding the initiative to those who aren't even thinking about working on Xbox consoles, to find out why and what could help them change their minds.



The company suggests that it is paying attention to the feedback that has emerged over the last few months, in which several small studios have shared difficulties in launching some titles on Xbox, due to a lack of support and communication.

Source

Not sold in Japan or Asia.

- Extreme capitalist policies.

- Lack of Microsoft's own Japanese or Asian IPs.

- Western territory.

- Xbox series s

 

[RCX]

"We trained our customers to never buy games. Now we are wondering why devs are reluctant to sell their games through our platform?!"

That's a real head-scratcher alright.

 

[hemo memo]

Because it doesn't sell.

 

[Brucey]

I'd rather eat ass than play on Xbox.

If that was Scarlet Johansen's ass I would prefer it over PS5 also.

 

[Nonehxc]

MS: Why u no Xbox

Devs: Why u no money me

There you have it, MS Research team. I will be taking my payment in cash, blackjack&hookers.

 

[Three]

No they didn't, the researcher says the program exists to gather data for their tools and services, and they are open to hear from everyone, it doesn't exist for "why studios avoid xbox" and definitely doesn't mention anything about "changing their minds", all it mentions is improving their tools

"If you're not on Xbox, we'd love to know why."

Who do you think "We" is here?

 

[Brucey]

Sega left because of a series of consoles that weren't commercially successful. They packed up and became a publisher because that's where the money was for them.

It could be argued Peter Moore was behind the killing of Sega as a console and then jumped on to Xbox ship. Maybe like the Nokia play, killed from inside by the mole.

 

[Topher]

That's fine, it's still describes the program accurately, but if you really want to get hung up on that



No they aren't, they are specifically targeting everyone


Literally nowhere is mentioned that this program exists to specifically target "xbox skippers"

No, but Microsoft themselves are highlighting the part of this expansion of the program getting input from "xbox skippers".

"Perhaps most intriguingly, the program welcomes input from creators who aren't necessarily bringing their games to Xbox. "

Really don't see what the big deal here is.

 

[hemo memo]

I'd rather eat ass than play on Xbox.

That's an interesting way to come out.

 

[j0hnnix]

Developers to Phil.

 

[solidus12]

I was about to post tweets from Colt saying that Xbox was the true console, market, and industry leader, but the coward deleted everything.

 

[Snake29]

 

[Brucey]

That's an interesting way to come out.

It's not exclusively a gay thing, just saying ...

 

[sainraja]

But if they're abandoning their system themselves with a transition to a full third party publisher it's hilarious they're asking others such questions
Because the platform just hasn't been successful and PC will replace it. That is all.

This indicates that they haven't ruled out the possibility of not abandoning their system.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

There's not room for a fourth. That's why sega left

There’s barely room for 3

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Really don't see what the big deal here is.

The program is for improvement of their tools and services and is open to all devs, a dev that only releases on mobile wouldn't be specifically targeted but they are welcome to share their input just the same.

 

[GymWolf]

1. Low HW Sales
2. Series S
3. Xbox owners are used to getting their games through GP.

 

[MikeM]

Leadership in a lot of places are really put of touch. Less MBAs, more actual subject matter experts in leadership.

 

[Mr Moose]

S SneakersSO said a while ago 3rd party would start to skip Xbox.
Seems like MicroSoft have noticed it happening.

It’s so over

Is that a Capybara?

 

[Topher]

The program is for improvement of their tools and services and is open to all devs, a dev that only releases on mobile wouldn't be specifically targeted but they are welcome to share their input just the same.

This "expansion" makes it quite clear that it is more than that. They are specifically targeting those who are not putting their games on "Xbox" and they would "love to know why". That's what they say explicitly:

"If you are making video games, we're interested in hearing from you. If you aren't on Xbox, we'd love to know why. And honestly, if you are using our competitor's products, you probably have a great perspective we could learn from!"

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

They've been a platform holder for TWENTY-THREE YEARS and haven't figured out why studios might be skipping their platforms by now?

A competent company would've figured this out generations ago. If MS want answers, all they need to do is search posts on this forum. But a TL;DR:

-Alienation of mid-sized & small non-Western studios starting from 360, intensifying with XBO​

​

-Treating non-US/UK territories as "second hand markets" during XBO (Tier 2, Tier 3 etc.)​

​

-Seemingly broken QA validation process​

​

-Potentially bad image with studios following antics during ABK acquisition saga​

​

-Confusing messaging over what exactly Xbox stands for anymore​

​

-Lack of "lead by example" with industry-defining, standard-setting 1P games​

​

-Lack of "lead by example" with big mainstream (high B2P unit & sales revenue generating) 1P hits​

​

-Pushing a subscription model (Game Pass) that has cannibalized a lot of B2P sales potential on Xbox hardware​

​

-(Asian studios in particular): Acquiring and then shutting down Tango Gameworks in the span of two years following critical hit Hi-Fi Rush​

​

-(Asian studios in particular): Cancelling Scalebound and Phantom Dusk Remake​

​

-(Asian studios in particular): Seemingly having no Japanese or Asian region branch (why is Phil always speaking pained Japanese like a robot at TGS?)​

​

-Having less efficient API dev tools than Sony/SIE​

​

-Providing less technical assistance/outreach to 3P studios than Sony/SIE​

And I'm sure I forgot a few but those are the big ones. Surprise surprise, none of those have to do with Sony or Nintendo making it hard "for Xbox to be Xbox". This is ALL on Microsoft over the course of multiple generations; they're just only now feeling the fuller ramifications of past mistakes (along with present ones) with Series X & S.

 

[Nydius]

Game Pass is a paid service.

A paid service that, by Microsoft’s own admission despite years of attempting to claim otherwise, cannibalizes game sales. (Aside; A lesson Ubisoft is currently also learning with Ubisoft+.)

Every single time a new, high profile, game is announced, all the Xbox fans on socials make the same noise like a gaggle of trained clowns: “GaMe PaSs WeN?!”, “wAiT fOr GaMe PaSs!”

If I were a third party developer, I’d wouldn’t want to deal with any of that. I want to sell my games, not get a check to put them on a subscription rental service for the smallest marketshare device. Even Indies are getting tired of the Game Pass nonsense.

So Microsoft is left with no choice but to increase the price of the service, and make it more confusing while stripping away the core “feature” from all but the most expensive tier.

At least you didn’t regurgitate the “best value in gaming” spin.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

They are specifically targeting those who are not putting their games on "Xbox" and they would "love to know why". That's what they say explicitly:

But it's not nobody is being specifically targeted, the program is now open to all devs including non technical staff, and if you happen to not be using their tools and services they would also like to know why; the program doesn't exist to target "xbox skippers", it exist to gather feedback from everyone to improve their tools and services for everyone.

 

[Mr Moose]

But it's not nobody is being specifically targeted, the program is now open to all devs including non technical staff, and if you happen to not be using their tools and services they would also like to know why; the program doesn't exist to target "xbox skippers", it exist to gather feedback from everyone to improve their tools and services for everyone.

The question does though.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

It could be argued Peter Moore was behind the killing of Sega as a console and then jumped on to Xbox ship. Maybe like the Nokia play, killed from inside by the mole.

That's a big iffy. Moore's big mistake with DC was setting the $199; SOJ wanted $249 because that's what their margins allowed for, particularly after Dreamcast's slow start in Japan. But when the $199 got announced, the reception was so positive that SOJ didn't want to jeopardize hurting goodwill so they stuck with that price even if it meant they were now losing more money per system sold.

Aside that and telling EA to go kick rocks, I think Moore did everything he could to try making Dreamcast successful in the West. Most of the damage that hurt Dreamcast was actually inflicted by Bernie Stolar during Saturn, Sega of Japan during Saturn, SOJ & SOA with the 32X and arguably even Tom Kalinski during Genesis with the way they were pumping out then buying back unsold stock (and hid it from Japan due to unconsolidated accounting).

Dreamcast, like Series X & S, was good hardware paying the ultimate price for mistakes of prior systems before it. Though I'd argue SEGA made less mistakes with Dreamcast than Microsoft have made with Xbox Series and, in a fair world, SEGA'd still be making hardware as a result.

"We trained our customers to never buy games. Now we are wondering why devs are reluctant to sell their games through our platform."

That's a real head-scratcher alright.

Yeah the answers are staring them right in the face but they've been unable to see them. Probably out of some type of hubris.

 

[Mexen]

1. Low HW Sales
2. Series S
3. Xbox owners are used to getting their games through GP.

 

[Griffon]

Gamepiss

 

[MetalFreak]

hhmmmm maybe because Xbox conditioned their user base not to buy games?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

I know it’s Xbox so it’s going to be a bunch of warrior shit posts, but isn’t this a good thing? Should avoid situations like whatever that small developer making that game and claimed he wasn’t getting responses for months. That’s what this is for, right? No substantial studios are skipping Xbox.

 

[Topher]

But it's not nobody is being specifically targeted, the program is now open to all devs including non technical staff, and if you happen to not be using their tools and services they would also like to know why; the program doesn't exist to target "xbox skippers", it exist to gather feedback from everyone to improve their tools and services for everyone.

Eh....you can keep rephrasing what they are saying if you want, but it won't change anything. I don't see anyone suggesting that the program "exists" to target "xbox skippers". I sure didn't say anything like that. Factually, they want to know why devs are skipping Xbox. That's it.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

I don't see anyone suggesting that the program "exists" to target "xbox skippers".

It's in the post you replied to me about

they are specifically targeting developers who have decided to skip Xbox in the past.

 

[Topher]

It's in the post you replied to me about

That does not say targeting those developers is why the program exists. Come on man

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

I feel like this is 10 years too late, lmao.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

That does not say targeting those developers is why the program exists. Come on man

Let me quote the whole thing

doesn't even make it clear what the change to the program is and why it's taking place. It's not just "open to all devs", they are specifically targeting developers who have decided to skip Xbox in the past.

The "change to the program" and it thus existing in its current form, doesn't exist to target "xbox skippers" specifically, it exists to gather feedback from any dev.

 

[cireza]

all the Xbox fans on socials

All of them ? Like every single one ? Because this isn't my case, so that's already "All of them except cireza". Maybe I am not enough of a fan though. Meaning of the word "All".

The narrative that Xbox players "never buy games" is utterly ridiculous. Because it would mean that zero (the number 0) games would have been sold on Xbox. That's the meaning of the word "Never".

There is a world where Xbox players buy digital games, and detractors have no clue about these sales numbers, but are content with saying that their ignorance is the equivalent of "no games being sold at all".

 

[jroc74]

I know they have data on what's happening.

I guess asking this way gives more insight. If its anonymous....oh boy.

 

[RPCGamer]

After all these years, it's amazing to see Xbox still fail to understand the basics and what made the 360 so good; Games, Games, Games. Since the Xbox one, their output has been fairly weak and nothing has really been compelling enough to get people back. Yes, they're had good games, but nothing to the scale of what they've had before. Nothing to turn heads.

They hold the keys to loads of games and do nothing with them.

 

[Jaybe]

This was a pretty good article where small developers were surveyed. Some also questioned the value of PlayStation. Seems like most sales for indies come from Pc and Switch.

“The next natural question: if Xbox console sales almost always tracked last for the developers we spoke to, was it even worth the time, money and effort to bring them over?“

Do game developers still want to publish on Xbox? | Skill Up

Get more from Skill Up on Patreon

www.patreon.com

 

[Sooner]

There's not room for a fourth. That's why sega left

Sega was done with or without Xbox entering the picture.

If every single Xbox player bought a Dreamcast instead, that's 9 million plus 24 million = 33 million.

PS2 sold 155 million by itself. And the fact remains, most of those Xbox players would likely have bought a PS2 or a GameCube before another Sega console after how they abandoned the 32X and Saturn.

 

[RPCGamer]

Sega was done with or without Xbox entering the picture.

Funny thing is, if you look at Sega's output the last two gens, I'd argue it's been better than either xbox and Sony. Certainly more consistent with their releases at least.

 

[GHG]

No they aren't, they are specifically targeting everyone

They have made adjustments to a program that already existed in order to target developers not on Xbox. This isn't complicated.

Literally nowhere is mentioned that this program exists to specifically target "xbox skippers"

Ah I see, so you want selective reporting. Because you've oh so conveniently decided to omit the two paragraphs which follow the one you quoted:

Perhaps most intriguingly, the program welcomes input from creators who aren't necessarily bringing their games to Xbox. Hendersen explains this open-door policy: "If you are making video games, we're interested in hearing from you. If you aren't on Xbox, we'd love to know why. And honestly, if you are using our competitor's products, you probably have a great perspective we could learn from!"

This strategy allows Xbox to gain fresh perspectives and avoid becoming an "echo chamber." As Hendersen puts it, "It's a bit like testing players who play games like yours – they are your target audience and you want to hear fresh perspectives because their expectations may differ from folks who are deep in your community."

How Xbox Research is Shaping the Future of Game Development

By directly engaging with game creators, Xbox aims to get the data that will help enhance the experience of development partners.

developer.microsoft.com

So the article in the OP covers the entirety of the article Microsoft posted, but yet you seem to only want a single portion of it to be discussed. I wonder why.

Not sure what you are suggesting about me, but that probably explains your hostile manner of posting.
I can assure you that no feelings were involved in determining that the title is indeed clickbait by every definition that exists for clickbait.

Hey man, I'm not the one crying foul here in order to avoid discussing the content at hand. You're free to discuss the actual subject matter instead of attempting to deflect and derail the thread.

 

[Topher]

Let me quote the whole thing

The "change to the program" and it thus existing in its current form, doesn't exist to target "xbox skippers" specifically, it exists to gather feedback from any dev.

And you are still not quoting anything that suggests that targeting "xbox skippers" is why the program exists. GHG doesn't even imply that. He is referring to the way you are rephrasing Microsoft's own words that point specifically to "xbox skippers" just as I pointed out.

The title you're suggesting doesn't even make it clear what the change to the program is and why it's taking place. It's not just "open to all devs", they are specifically targeting developers who have decided to skip Xbox in the past. Why do you want some softball title to protect your feelings?

Fucking hell, no wonder Xbox has had the issues it's had of late. You've got a bunch of yes men (both in the company and in the fanbase) who don't want to face up to the reality even when it's staring them right in the face.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I thought the Ambassador program already ended?

 

[Topher]

I thought the Ambassador program already ended?

"officially" yes

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

- no Voodoo Vince 2
- GamePass is not on my refrigerator
- Phil's too sexy to think about gaming

 

[jroc74]

Oh now they want to listen to feedback outside of their echo chamber?

Yup

And right from the MS link:

This strategy allows Xbox to gain fresh perspectives and avoid becoming an "echo chamber." As Hendersen puts it, "It's a bit like testing players who play games like yours – they are your target audience and you want to hear fresh perspectives because their expectations may differ from folks who are deep in your community."

Yeah, I guess finally, lol.

I think the idea is to hear ideas outside of an echo chamber.

Ok....

Come on then Jack, since you yourself aren't part of any echo chamber, please enlighten us. Why is it that developers decide to skip Xbox?

Agree. Cant wait to hear.

Again, this is the title:

"xbox wants to know why studios avoid their consoles"

And this is directly from Xbox:

"If you're not on Xbox, we'd love to know why.”

They say the same thing.

You're taking issue with something that isn't in the title, which is where it would need to be for this to be defined as clickbait.

This "expansion" makes it quite clear that it is more than that. They are specifically targeting those who are not putting their games on "Xbox" and they would "love to know why". That's what they say explicitly:

"If you are making video games, we're interested in hearing from you. If you aren't on Xbox, we'd love to know why. And honestly, if you are using our competitor's products, you probably have a great perspective we could learn from!"

I'm legit shocked someone is actually calling this clickbait.

 

[Moriarty1889]

You shutdown Tango Gameworks.
You cancelled Scalebound after 3+ years of development.
You canceled Coalition's new IP and forced them to work on soulless Gears of War sequels.
You paid $85 billion for Zenimax, Activision and Minecraft and laid off 25,000 people in one year.
You shut down Arkhane after just one flop.
You released Series S despite every developer telling you NOT to do it.
You have trained your userbase to skip any game that doesnt come to gamepass on day one.
Your sales are trash.
You need surveys to tell you the obvious. Your leadership is clueless and should not be running this business.

All very true. Phil, Sarah and Matt all need to be replaced though it won’t happen. Phil himself, has managed to run Xbox into the ground. He has turned out to be worse than Mattrick ever was as crazy as that sounds. Just look at how abysmal things are over at Xbox right now under his ten years of leadership.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

You have trained your userbase to skip any game that doesnt come to gamepass on day one.

Amazing how many of us say this, yet, it’s called a lie!