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Xbox research interested in asking devs why their game isn't on Xbox

Darsxx82

Member
I mentioned you being triggered because it seems you were, since you keep alluding to something about me, my intentions or character, but this only exists in your mind.
And it is clickbait, doesn't matter if you disagree, it fits every definition of clickbait.
Again we can move on, this has run its course.

It's a losing battle.

Imagine how the same people continually point out and criticize Jezz Corden and Tom Warren as detestable people who dedicate themselves to making clickbait articles and suddenly use them as an example of what is not clickbait simply because they fit their narrative..... 🤷🏻
 

cireza

Member
Couldn’t possibly be the low sales or hostility from an entitled fandom.
Pretty sure Square-Enix take all their decisions reading threads on neogaf.

The rest of you post is totally pointless, repeating the exact same shit as others without a second of thought.

I will buy good games when they are released on Xbox. There is no masterplan at work here. FF XV was day-one. FF XVI doesn't qualify.
 
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Darsxx82

Member
Clickbait!



If You Say So Shrug GIF

At what point did Tom Warren and Jezz stop being the detestable guys who only make a living making articles with clickbait titles and are now a source of honest journalism?
🤔🤷🏻
 

Darsxx82

Member
At the point that they're well known MS shills and even they're repeating straight from the horses mouth.

Nervous Tea Time GIF by VH1
And what does it have to do with them being Xbox Shill? In fact, that is precisely what makes their articles about Xbox the ones that show the most Clickbait overtones...🙃

The reality is that these guys live off of clickbait articles of any topic and color and I assumed that it was something that everyone in this forum agreed on... 🤷🏻
 
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Topher

Gold Member
At what point did Tom Warren and Jezz stop being the detestable guys who only make a living making articles with clickbait titles and are now a source of honest journalism?
🤔🤷🏻

Uh...at the point where i have posted many an article from both of them and only ridiculed either of them for shit they said on twitter unless the article was an opinion piece that I disagreed with.
 

Darsxx82

Member
Uh...at the point where i have posted many an article from both of them and only ridiculed either of them for shit they said on twitter unless the article was an opinion piece that I disagreed with.

So you don't think that their articles (especially the titles of these) are generally and massively clickbait and always honest??

The general idea here and of the majority who have quoted them has been to detest the figure of Warren and Corden to the extreme and criticize their tendency to clickbait titles...... If that was not your case, then I'm sorry for the hasty judgment, but we are not going to deny now what was a fact here.....
 
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Topher

Gold Member
So you don't think that their articles (especially the titles of these) are generally and massively clickbait and always honest??

The general idea here and of the majority who have quoted them has been to detest the figure of Warren and Corden to the extreme and criticize their tendency to clickbait titles...... If that was not your case, then I'm sorry for the previous judgment, but we are not going to deny now what was a fact......

My man.....I'm only going to speak for myself. So when you quote me, I'll answer for me. I'm not going to say that these two never post clickbait, but that doesn't mean they always post clickbait either. In this case, they are repeating exactly what Microsoft said themselves so it ain't clickbait, imo.

Here is a sample of the articles I've posted from both of them. I can see them both as a source of news and not necessarily agree with every article (or title) they always write at the same time.

5xk2Zrm.png


kgbA9g5.png
 
And as usual, the target of being "successful" is set to "selling more than PS". Because if you sell 30 or 40 millions consoles, as long as it is less than the competitor, then it is failing of course. And also let's ignore money made by publishers on games put in Game Pass, because we all know that it is a service provided for free by Saint Microsoft.

So we can agree that the PS5 is failing too : it didn't reach PS2 sales numbers.

If even half of what you guys have been repeating for years was true, there would be no Xbox consoles, ecosystem and games anymore. And this for years.

Thankfully you guys weren't around back then spreading this shit during the Neo Geo days.

Considering the costs of…

- developing a console
- running a maintenance service
- running an online service

…and the platform business model of making 30% off each 3rd party game sold then you really need to have console sales in the high tens of millions of units to make it a viable business.

- It’s why Sega exited the console market not long after Dreamcast launched

- It’s why Nintendo left the dedicated home console market

- It’s why Sony left the dedicated handheld market

- It’s why the like of NeoGeo and everyone else left the market, they all failed, regardless of whether or not you liked them

- It’s why Microsoft are now putting their games on other platforms

Every single Sony home console and Nintendo handheld console has sold over 70 million units, which has lead to them both having a stable business for decades now.

They’re the ONLY companies to achieve this.
 
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Darsxx82

Member
My man.....I'm only going to speak for myself. So when you quote me, I'll answer for me. I'm not going to say that these two never post clickbait, but that doesn't mean they always post clickbait either. In this case, they are repeating exactly what Microsoft said themselves so it ain't clickbait, imo.

Here is a sample of the articles I've posted from both of them. I can see them both as a source of news and not necessarily agree with every article (or title) they always write at the same time.

5xk2Zrm.png


kgbA9g5.png
??? Being a source of information is not incompatible with the fact that with infinite frequency (especially when it is related to consoles) their articles (the titles of these especially) are examples of clickbait. And this here and in general is something where there was consensus and frequently criticized.

And it is not just Warren and Jezz, it is that in general the vast majority of people and websites that are dedicated to covering video games use clickbait in their titles because it is the number one rule to attract visits.

It's funny because I published this same information directly from the source in the thread about XboxNext hardware 3 days since and there was not much discussion there... among other things because the basis of the information and the initiative of MS could not be more innocent or neutral....
I guess I was too anti-clickbait🤷🏻
 
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So UK physical releases, maybe digital, maybe not, who knows
Sales in Japan lol
And niche Capcom games/collections

I don't recall Monster Hunter being a niche IP ;)

And as usual, the target of being "successful" is set to "selling more than PS". Because if you sell 30 or 40 millions consoles, as long as it is less than the competitor, then it is failing of course. And also let's ignore money made by publishers on games put in Game Pass, because we all know that it is a service provided for free by Saint Microsoft.

No; the target of being successful is that you either hold steady with something or make gains. Xbox has declined sharply in B2P sales even compared to its own prior systems like XBO and 360, let alone against PS4, PS5 or Switch.

By Microsoft's own metrics, Xbox is failing as a console.

So we can agree that the PS5 is failing too : it didn't reach PS2 sales numbers.

Conflation and whataboutism.

If even half of what you guys have been repeating for years was true, there would be no Xbox consoles, ecosystem and games anymore. And this for years.

Microsoft themselves said it in leaked court documents meant for the CMA, EC and FTC. Most of it was last year.

Thankfully you guys weren't around back then spreading this shit during the Neo Geo days.

You cannot seriously be comparing Xbox to Neo-Geo. SNK made that system for a specific niche and not to compete directly with Nintendo & SEGA. Also their games were selling at $200 a pop and Neo-Geo was doing very well in arcades (its main market).

Xbox Series was made to compete directly against PS5 and is failing; they've lost money on hardware and software sales have been declining. Home console is still Microsoft's main market for video games.

That's the thing, the mistake that the thread title leads to because the initiative is about improving current tools and services and that makes it easier or simpler for developers to continue making games for Xbox.

That is, it is a way of collecting feedback to improve the tools and services that they already offer and that a developer who does not make games for Xbox can also provide their feedback

In short, it is something so simple and innocent and how not to limit those who can provide feedback for the improvement of Xbox.

Dunno; given how bold MS are promoting this initiative publicly you'd think there's more to it besides that. Someone can easily read into it as a means of them to see why devs might, say, be skipping the platform if there isn't an incentive from Microsoft directly (usually Game Pass money or covering costs to port).

In fact I'd say the reason we've seen a decent number of games get Xbox ports this gen when they likely wouldn't have, is because of Microsoft covering costs for the Xbox version one way or another or reaching out to do so. They've done this with Capcom and getting the Marvel collection to Xbox. They'll likely have to do that for Black Myth Wukong. They've done it for a lot of indies via Game Pass deals.

Microsoft probably want devs to bring games to Xbox of their own volition, and the truth is there is very little reason for many to do so unless Microsoft cover some or all of the costs for an Xbox version. This program could be a way of them investigating why that has to be the case. I dunno if Microsoft are going to like the responses :/.

Another thing is how it is then tried to become another weapon to criticize or make fun of any Xbox initiative, whatever it is in autopilot mode.

Not saying that's right or wrong, but MS have kind of created that situation for themselves. They just gotta deal with it.

There is a phenomenal documentary about how Xbox was created, that I recommend you watch, and the end of SEGA was not the reason that MS launched into the console industry...

I've seen that documentary, but it doesn't address everything. A lot of things about SEGA in particular are left out because the only SEGA person they had for the documentary was Peter Moore, and he only knew a brief part of SEGA's activity at the time as a whole.

MS partnering with SEGA for Windows CE on Dreamcast was a big part of MS getting their "foot in the door" with experience they then leveraged with the Xbox, that's a fact. The Xbox team basing the controller design off of Dreamcast's is a fact. MS rejecting SEGA's insistence of BC of Dreamcast on the Xbox, because MS wanted more breathing room to establish their own identity as a platform holder in the market, is very likely even if not outright confirmed.

Yes MS wanted to "beat Sony" and that was the driving motivation, but SEGA dropping out as a platform holder gave room for Microsoft to get in and carve out market share it might otherwise not have been able to net. Had Dreamcast remained, Xbox probably would've done closer to 15 million vs 25 million, and MS might've not carried ahead with the 360 (or it'd of ended up something much different likely a joint effort w/ SEGA).
 

cireza

Member
Every single Sony home console and Nintendo handheld console has sold over 70 million units, which has lead to them both having a stable business for decades now.

They’re the ONLY companies to achieve this.
As far as I remember, Xbox has been here since 2002, so that's more than 2 decades. I love that totally arbitrary 70 millions number, by the way. You are sure though ? It is not 71 or 72 millions instead ?
 

Topher

Gold Member
??? Being a source of information is not incompatible with the fact that with infinite frequency (especially when it is related to consoles) their articles (the titles of these especially) are examples of clickbait. And this here and in general is something where there was consensus and frequently criticized.

And it is not just Warren and Jezz, it is that in general the vast majority of people and websites that are dedicated to covering video games use clickbait in their titles because it is the number one rule to attract visits.

It's funny because I published this same information directly from the source in the thread about XboxNext hardware 3 days since and there was not much discussion there... among other things because the basis of the information and the initiative of MS could not be more innocent or neutral....
I guess I was too anti-clickbait🤷🏻

There is no consensus on what is and isn't clickbait. This thread right here is an example of that. You think this is clickbait. I don't.

What I do see is multiple news outlets who found once piece of interesting news from Microsoft's article. Had it not been for that tidbit that Microsoft wrote, there would be no news here at all.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
Microsoft taught people two things:
- don't buy games - why should you if there's a steady stream of monthly Game Pass titles
- don't buy our consoles - why should you if you can play them on PC

Plus there's the case of the elephant in the room - Series S. Its limitations will become even bigger after even more studios will start using UE5.

I wish Phil's successor had the balls (and support) to backtrack on all of this - to buy their games and their consoles for their exclusives (even if they'd be timed ones).
 
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As far as I remember, Xbox has been here since 2002, so that's more than 2 decades. I love that totally arbitrary 70 millions number, by the way. You are sure though ? It is not 71 or 72 millions instead ?

Console manufacturers don’t make profit on console sales (they’re subsidised by game sales), so it’s bloody obvious that the closer to 100m (and beyond) their user base is the more sustainable and profitable the business is.

The MegaDrive is Sega’s only successful console, the Saturn and Dreamcast made them bleed money to the point that they had to abandon ship.

Obviously Xbox isn’t doing that bad, but it seems like Microsoft don’t see Xbox as much of a profitable business anymore.
 

MacReady13

Member
2 reasons why-

1 is Gamepass. Xbox owners are trained now to wait for games to come onto the rental service so they never really buy their games.

2 is the Series S. What a shithouse way to release games, making parity with an underpowered console a priority...
 

Darsxx82

Member
There is no consensus on what is and isn't clickbait. This thread right here is an example of that. You think this is clickbait. I don't.

There is total consensus that Warren and Jezz's articles frequently use clickbait titles...this case is not going to change that.

The title of Jezz's article has then been used as a way of denying that the title is clickbait, certainly not to argue that "maybe it isn't."
What I do see is multiple news outlets who found once piece of interesting news from Microsoft's article. Had it not been for that tidbit that Microsoft wrote, there would be no news here at all.

It's funny because you're describing the first premise of the clickbait article... focusing only on a specific aspect and not the global aspect of the initiative.

The initiative is not to ask the reasons why some developers skip Xbox, it is to collect feedback on how to improve tools and services so that launching games on Xbox is more attractive from all kinds of developers and people in the industry in general, including those who do not release their game on Xbox...

But of course, that way it doesn't sell or attract many people to read an article like the thread where I already mentioned the info a few days ago. 🤷🏻

PS. "Multiple News outlets" No suspicion of clickbait here 🙃
 
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Don't wanna criticize a company that genuinely is trying to make their platform better (even if imo it's too late). However, the answers to these questions are pretty good damn simple. Like the fact MS doesn't seem to know is even more alarmingly.
 

Topher

Gold Member
There is total consensus that Warren and Jezz's articles frequently use clickbait titles...this case is not going to change that.

The title of Jezz's article has then been used as a way of denying that the title is clickbait, certainly not to argue that "maybe it isn't."


It's funny because you're describing the first premise of the clickbait article... focusing only on a specific aspect and not the global aspect of the initiative.

The initiative is not to ask the reasons why some developers skip Xbox, it is to collect feedback on how to improve tools and services so that launching games on Xbox is more attractive from all kinds of developers and people in the industry in general, including those who do not release their game on Xbox...

But of course, that way it doesn't sell or attract many people to read an article like the thread where I already mentioned the info a few days ago. 🤷🏻

PS. "Multiple News outlets" No suspicion of clickbait here 🙃


Jez and Tom using clickbait in the past is irrelevant. The question is whether this specific article is clickbait. If you think it is then that's up to you. Doesn't change the fact that the title and the article are entirely correct. That's why I say it isn't. We disagree.

Awkward John Krasinski GIF by Saturday Night Live
 
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It's like MS purposely handicaps themselves in everything they do.

Facts

Console manufacturers don’t make profit on console sales (they’re subsidised by game sales), so it’s bloody obvious that the closer to 100m (and beyond) their user base is the more sustainable and profitable the business is.

The MegaDrive is Sega’s only successful console, the Saturn and Dreamcast made them bleed money to the point that they had to abandon ship.

Generally true but there are always caveats. Nintendo have always prioritized making money off hardware from Day 1; AFAIK only times they lost money on hardware was the Virtual Boy, early 3DS (when they did the emergency price cut) and maybe late years of Gamecube, which was just a year or so. Besides that, they've always stressed profitability off hardware from the get-go.

As for SEGA, technically the Saturn didn't lose them money, but it's also because SEGA started purposefully limiting production to fit in line with whatever guidance they were seeing for revenue and profits after a certain point. Their first losses were reported in FY '97 and that was likely due to consolidating accounting (SOA had losses up to that point which SOJ didn't know about) and R&D from Dreamcast prototype development.

They technically were losing money on Saturn hardware in the West, but they were also scaling back production of the hardware to balance that out. Most of my knowledge on this comes from a few of Jenovi's videos; quite interesting stuff.

But generally speaking, you're right. A mainstream console needs a massive install base in order to make the typical business model actually work. Microsoft have been failing with that for two generations in a row, especially this generation. Doubling down on the same approach next time will just lead to a complete sales collapse (maybe 15-25 million units lifetime) due in part to how tarnished Xbox's brand name is in the console hardware space now.

So to remain in hardware, MS's only option is to change to a very different business model and leverage other assets (i.e Windows) to drive value to Xbox. It's kind of the only way.
 

Darsxx82

Member
Jez and Tom using clickbait in the past is irrelevant. The question is whether this specific article is clickbait. If you think it is then that's up to you. Doesn't change the fact that the title and the article are entirely correct. That's why I say it isn't. We disagree.

Awkward John Krasinski GIF by Saturday Night Live
No, it's not irrelevant when use them as a basis to strengthen the idea that it's not clickbait...

Being correct in what you say is not incompatible with being clickbait, especially when you omit the rest of the information that is equally relevant and necessary to know all the details of an initiative.

But well, in the end you're right about we just don't agree.🤷🏻
 

Topher

Gold Member
No, it's not irrelevant when use them as a basis to strengthen the idea that it's not clickbait...

Being correct in what you say is not incompatible with being clickbait, especially when you omit the rest of the information that is equally relevant and necessary to know all the details of an initiative.

But well, in the end you're right about we just don't agree.🤷🏻

Yes, it is irrelevant in this case. I used Corden's article to demonstrate that other outlets picked up on the exact same newsworthiness of this as eurogamer. Nothing more.

Clickbait is meant to mislead or exaggerate. These articles did neither. So we have fundamental different views on what clickbait is.
 
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They really got to ask why developers aren’t putting their games on XBOX? Really?

1. Microsoft hardware doesn’t sell.
2. Xbox community do not buy games and it has been that way for a long time.
3. Japanese/Asian sell horrible on XBOX.
4. Day one releases for PC most likely affects hardware sales.
5. Gamepass has conditioned consumers not to buy games.
 

ZoukGalaxy

Member
Because Xbox doesn't sell and then doesn't worth the hassle ?

Are they stupid or what. They should ask themselves WHY Xbox is not selling (Hello Gamepass).
 
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Darsxx82

Member
Yes, it is irrelevant in this case. I used Corden's article to demonstrate that other outlets picked up on the exact same newsworthiness of this as eurogamer. Nothing more.

I can't find the article by Eurogamer, but it doesn't change anything. Well, surely if you had cited Eurogamer I wouldn't have cited you, but that doesn't mean that anyone else who did.

At the end, citing Warren and Jez as examples of "no clickbait" here is curious, if not funny. And that was the reason for my citation.
Clickbait is meant to mislead or exaggerate. These articles did neither. So we have fundamental different views on what clickbait is.

Well, we will accept that it is that, a difference of criteria. For me any article (or rather, title of an article) that omits part or all of the context, seeks to attract attention by focusing only on a "controversial" aspect or leads people who only read the title to make prejudices about the information or initiative... it is clickbait.

And unfortunately, this attitude is widespread especially in the gaming press, because today everything is based on attention and clicks.
 

Darsxx82

Member
The eurogamer article is the one in the OP.
Now I understand the reason why it wasn't on official Eurogamer web nor Twitter acount....

It's Eurogamer Portugal.... LOL.

Just 1 things:

-The origin of Eurogamer Portugal is a Playstation fan site that was acquired by the group that Eurogamer to converse on Eurogamer.pt.. Almost all the staff is still there.

The seriousness and tact of eurogamer.pt is far from that of Eurogamer official.

But what both of them said, I will understand that it is a difference of criteria on what is or is not clickbait.
 
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CLW

Member
NOONE buys anything on Xbox bc it’s supposed to be “free” if im a small dev no way in hell would I waste 2 seconds on optimizing for a console with an incurable fatal condition
 
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Barakov

Member
Series S and Game Pass are the two big answers. They want to become the Netflix of games but the movie industry and the games industry are two different beasts.

It's time the higer ups in these big game companies realized that.
 
Series S. Under powered. Nice idea but it shouldn't have been thing.

Game Pass. People will not buy games on Xbox when they eventually know it will come to game pass at some point later.

All "exclusives" will be released on PC and eventually released to PS5 and/or Switch.

No effort on securing 3rd party exclusives or deals.
 
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