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[kaizenkko]

I hate Xbox as a brand and MS in gaming space because of things like that. Those fuckers don't give a shit about gaming as a work of art.

 

[RoboFu]

Which ms studios games don’t run well
On S?

 

[Fabieter]

Did Larian Studios planned it for his taste?

 

[01011001]

I hate Xbox as a brand and MS in gaming space because of things like that. Those fuckers don't give a shit about gaming as a work of art.

lol imagine thinking Sony gives even half a shit about gaming besides the money they make with it lol.

also studios that go on about "games as art" are almost always pure shit anyways.
and if Sony would care about the possibilities gaming as a medium offers, God of War Ragnarök and Horizon Forbidden West wouldn't exist, as they are the braindead Marvel movie equivalent of the gaming world, just like CoD and 90% of Ubisoft's games.

the only first party that actually uses the possibilities of video games as good as possible is Nintendo.

so better only buy Nintendo systems from now on then.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Which ms studios games don’t run well
On S?

I think people are still waiting for announced games to finally be released.

 

[adamsapple]

I hate Xbox as a brand and MS in gaming space because of things like that. Those fuckers don't give a shit about gaming as a work of art.

Such sensationalism, much wow.

So Xbox handicaps their ecosystem by mandating all software to run on weaker hardware and then tells devs to "git gud"?

Wow...

I wish more people would read beyond the topic title but ah well. One day.

 

[feynoob]

Such sensationalism, much wow.

Should be common by now. You saw it on that website before they gave you the hammer.

 

[Fabieter]

lol imagine thinking Sony gives even half a shit about gaming besides the money they make with it lol.

also studios that go on about "games as art" are almost always pure shit anyways.
and if Sony would care about the possibilities gaming as a medium offers, God of War Ragnarök and Horizon Forbidden West wouldn't exist, as they are the braindead Marvel movie equivalent of the gaming world, just like CoD and 90% of Ubisoft's games.

the only first party that actually uses the possibilities of video games as good as possible is Nintendo.

so better only buy Nintendo systems from now on then.

Can you explain how nintendo uses the medium better than ms and sony? I play 1p games from all platformholder tho.

 

[adamsapple]

Should be common by now. You saw it on that website before they gave you the hammer.

I don't usually comment on off site affairs but yeah it's a cavern.

 

[feynoob]

I don't usually comment on off site affairs but yeah it's a cavern.

Stuff like this happens when the competition starts to get serious. People will mock them when they are weak, but start to hate them when they are getting stronger.
We have that in sports. People were cheering for us last year when we were trying to hit champions league spot. But after we started getting closer to the title, everyone started hating us nonstop.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Microsoft did a really good job with releasing two consoles, history tells us we’re probably expecting new consoles next year. Gamers liked ps4 pro, and you want series s pro.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The talking point we've seen toxic Xbox content creators and fans like Colteastwood, Crapdealer etc. push, now the head of XGS is more or less pushing the same thing?

We both know it is very very likely not to be a coincidence .

 

[Panajev2001a]

That honest opinion becomes pointless, once you actually make the games for it. They are proving themself wrong by making those games.

No, they did. It say making games was physically impossible just that essentially you are either am holding one hardware back or users having problems on the other. So not sure how they are proving themselves wrong.

 

[Three]

That honest opinion becomes pointless, once you actually make the games for it. They are proving themself wrong by making those games.

How would they be proving themselves wrong exactly?

They didn’t say it's so bad that we can't make games on it. They said the memory constraints would hold back the gen and be a pain.

 

[onnextflix5]

wonder if later in the gen, series s versions will simply be a broken mess. Will ms even allow that.

 

[Kataploom]

Yeah of course they are but before they were acquired they shared their opinion about the S and said it isn't good for the gen.

"They"... A single dev that didn't even worked with the system at the time.

If devs gonna cry, they better show a single current gen game that's not possible in the S with lower graphical settings.

Each and every current gen game so far run just well and sometimes even more consistent on the S compared to the other consoles, apart from that, each of those games demand so much from the bigger consoles that mostly ditch 60 fps mode altogether.

Bigger consoles reach their own limit way before Series S start bottlenecking anything.

 

[SportsFan581]

How would they be proving themselves wrong exactly?

They didn’t say it's so bad that we can't make games on it. They said the memory constraints would hold back the gen and be a pain.

The entire industry is proving that wrong in practice. XSX is getting the same games that PS5 is getting and both are being maxed out to the point that render resolutions are under 1080p. It's a good thing XSS is there to hold things back or we'd be at 480p I guess.

 

[CLW]

Release on PC and PS5 sounds like planning better to me problem solved

 

[jm89]

It's a good thing XSS is there to hold things back or we'd be at 480p I guess.

Hopefully you missed the /s

 

[feynoob]

How would they be proving themselves wrong exactly?

They didn’t say it's so bad that we can't make games on it. They said the memory constraints would hold back the gen and be a pain.

By making said games for that console that is holding the gen back.
THey made doom eternal. I imagine their next game is going to be taxing on the system.

 

[ReBurn]

Microsoft needs to be putting in more effort to make porting down easier.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

The recent ridiculous spec bloat of fairly average looking games is working against the developers' narratives. It's embarrassing how upscaling techniques have become such a crutch that current gen games now run sub 1080p native sub 60 fps. Absolutely inexcusable performance given their lack of technical ambitions.

Yeah, it feels like game development skills have seriously deteriorated.

 

[damidu]

wonder if later in the gen, series s versions will simply be a broken mess. Will ms even allow that.

isnt that what basically happened with one s towards the end, ridicoluos iq with awful framerates.
though one s was at least somewhat comparable to a base ps4
series s is in a much much worse state within its respective generation. so stuff might end up even worse i guess.

 

[Topher]

Coming into this thread.....

 

[Three]

"They"... A single dev that didn't even worked with the system at the time.

It's not a single dev going through this pain but "they" refers to id engine devs who was mentioned by a poster as not whining. They had also worked on the system already. They predicted the pains that later devs went through because they had gone through it. They HAD worked with it.

If devs gonna cry, they better show a single current gen game that's not possible in the S with lower graphical settings.

And how would you know if it's impossible? If developers make cuts to make it possible so they can release on xbox or in BG3 case say that they are skipping it due to Series S issues how would you know if it's a "crying dev" or the actual Series S being a pain in the ass?

Each and every current gen game so far run just well and sometimes even more consistent on the S compared to the other consoles, apart from that, each of those games demand so much from the bigger consoles that mostly ditch 60 fps mode altogether.

What? what you're saying here isn't clear. I will just point out that there are games that run at half the framerate on Series S vs their bigger console counterparts sometimes even with missing features like raytracing.

Bigger consoles reach their own limit way before Series S start bottlenecking anything

Now you must just be pulling my leg because there is no way you actually believe that.

The entire industry is proving that wrong in practice. XSX is getting the same games that PS5 is getting and both are being maxed out to the point that render resolutions are under 1080p. It's a good thing XSS is there to hold things back or we'd be at 480p I guess.

How? The resolution struggle with the Series S is mainly gpu related. Memory constraints are different and related to other things like map sizes, enemies on screen, BVH raytracing. How would the industry be proving that wrong? Especially as 'the industry' is complaining and id actually released doom on Series S without raytracing exactly as they predicted they would?

 

[M1chl]

Holy shit, even MS said, that you did X version first and then you port down.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

As the sales disparity between both consoles widen, devs who don't want to put in the extra effort might just skip xbox all together. And the games might end up more ambitious thanks to more RAM to work with. That would be a good day. Series S is a drag on the whole industry and these fuckers at ms should be ashamed.

The calculus on this is pretty simple on this, but the timing isn't. Either a dev has already started the project and want to remove the XBS or they haven't started the project yet and they want to see how much they could push the PS5 and potentially draw more attention and more sales compared to what they would otherwise have with XBS B2P sales and potentially GamePass revenue.

We're going to see which of these are true, but if a game started development today and took 4 years to develop we're looking at 2027 release.

I think what we're ultimately going to see is A LOT of games that don't release from XBX/S simply due to them being cross-gen with the next generation and the Series S being a tough ask for it. Look at Cyberpunk last generation, where that game should not have come out for the previous generation.

 

[Three]

By making said games for that console that is holding the gen back.

Because that's their job. Doesn't mean what they said is being proven wrong. They're making games that have the Series S constraints in mind. They are making games around that system.

THey made doom eternal. I imagine their next game is going to be taxing on the system.

They complained that the memory constraints don't allow them to do BVH raytracing. Lo and behold Doom Eternal was missing raytracing on Series S. Not exactly proving themselves wrong is it?

 

[Topher]

Fake news.

He didn’t say devs should plan better. He said when they move on to their second game they CAN plan better because they know what to expect.

It really isn't nearly as controversial a statement as the article title made it out to be. Typical clickbait from "thegamer"

 

[feynoob]

Because that's their job. Doesn't mean what they said is being proven wrong. They're making games that have the Series S constraints in mind. They are making games around that system.

They complained that the memory constraints don't allow them to do BVH raytracing. Lo and behold Doom Eternal was missing raytracing on Series S. Not exactly proving themselves wrong is it?

consoles dont really have true raytracing. That is only available on nvidia graphics.

After five years, ray tracing still isn't worth the bad performance

The cost of progress

www.techradar.com

Also this tech is too early.

 

[Three]

consoles dont really have true raytracing. That is only available on nvidia graphics.

After five years, ray tracing still isn't worth the bad performance

The cost of progress

www.techradar.com

Also this tech is too early.

I have no idea where you are going with this but Doom Eternal has raytracing on XSX and PS5 already. Not sure what point you're trying to make with "true raytracing" and "tech is too early" but if your fear is the fact that it lowers performance then you might also be surprised to know that Series S has games with half the framerate in comparison to X and PS5 and those games don't even have raytracing so what does that mean?

 

[The Pleasure]

 

[feynoob]

I have no idea where you are going with this but Doom Eternal has raytracing on XSX and PS5 already. Not sure what point you're trying to make with "true raytracing" and "tech is too early" but if your fear is the fact that it lowers performance then you might also be surprised to know that Series S has games with half the framerate in comparison to X and PS5 and those games don't even have raytracing so what does that mean?

The thing is Raytracing is a baby tech. Devs are chasing this tech, while it hurts their games.

 

[ByWatterson]

So this basically guarantees that Sony top-tier exclusives will always look better than Microsoft's. Good to clear that up.

 

[VolticArchangel]

Starfield will be a really good point of reference for the Series S, given it's scope.

That said, it's an undeniable fact that more time and HR are required for a Series S downport. Can it scale down on a currentgen-only game? Sure. But it's inevitably gonna cost more dev time, which especially Indies cannot afford, and seem to launch on PS5/PC, with Series later or even take the timed exclusivity bait from Sony.

Japan is a different story because the platform is non-existent there, despite the porting hassles.

 

[Razvedka]

Even Id engine devs themselves were complaining about Series S though.

Yes they were. People should go back and read what they had to say prior to being purchased by Microsoft.

Perfectly reasonable statements to make. That's the Xbox platform, obviously that's the platform that devs have to make the games for if they want to be on Xbox. And obviously they will get better accustomed to the limitations of the hardware with experience.

This isn't how the Series S was sold out in public. Microsoft repeatedly asserted that making a Series X game work on the Series S was trivial- like the flick of a switch if I recall correctly. This, obviously, is not true.

 

[Three]

The thing is Raytracing is a baby tech. Devs are chasing this tech, while it hurts their games.

So if raytracing is hurting their games because it lowers performance, what would the Series S be doing when it's getting half the performance even without raytracing? Hurting games too?
Because raytracing is difficult on Series S it would likely remain "babytech" for longer. Same with anything else new developers might want to try but are limited by the hardware.

 

[TheUndeadGamer]

Devs should plan better by skipping Xbox versions since the PS version outsells the Xbox versions by a 5:1 ratio anyways

Oh right that's what Japanese devs are already doing

Can I get receipts for that 5:1 ratio? I’d like to see them.

 

[balls of snow]

Increasingly obvious the series s is the xbone and series x is the one x.

 

[TheUndeadGamer]

Microsoft needs to be putting in more effort to make porting down easier.

Absolutely. Better and easier tools to make the porting more seamless.

Series S is here to stay. MS just needs to make porting to it almost trivial.

Devs won’t abandon Xbox due to the S.

 

[feynoob]

So if raytracing is hurting their games because it lowers performance, what would the Series S be doing when it's getting half the performance even without raytracing? Hurting games too?

Because it's not the same specs. You can't get the same results, if it has different specs.

Because raytracing is difficult on Series S it would likely remain "babytech" for longer. Same with anything else new developers might want to try but are limited by the hardware.

It's a baby tech, because current console graphics are old already.

You need pro model for it to work better. A tech like this gets better with better graphics.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

There is no way anyone with a reasonable grasp of English can infer - in good faith - this nonsense from what Booty said.

Even a random 10 year old off the street can easily comprehend the quote means Booty thinks it’ll get easier for devs the more games they make and the more experience they get optimizing for Series S.

Yuck.

What grown man (or woman) says "yuck" in a conversation these days?

Perfectly reasonable statements to make. That's the Xbox platform, obviously that's the platform that devs have to make the games for if they want to be on Xbox. And obviously they will get better accustomed to the limitations of the hardware with experience.

Devs hated the processor and the split memory config in the PS3, they disliked the memory config in the N64, it happens. There was realistically zero chance that Sony or Nintendo was changing or throwing away the generation in either case. If developers wanted games on that platform they had to work with the hardware the best they could. Same deal here, same with the Switch, etc.

The problem here is that Microsoft claimed they learned their lesson from the XBO. But in a way, they repeated the exact same mistakes. XBO had a complicated split memory setup (ESRAM, DDR3); Series X has a pseudo-split memory setup (6 GB slower RAM, 10 GB faster RAM). XBO needed more hardware overhead for OS tasks; Series X and S need more resources for more software-driven implementations of the I/O subsystem that PS5 otherwise offloads to dedicated ASICs. XBO provided bad perceived value relative to price; Series S repeats that mistake being only $100 (or $50 in case of the new black one) cheaper than a PS5 Digital but sacrificing much more in performance and features comparatively (and for people who don't mind digital, PS5 Digital being $100 cheaper than Series X and providing similar performance).

It's like they learned lessons from the XBO, but only at the most surface of levels, and repeated a lot of them this gen, just in different ways.

We both know it is very very likely not to be a coincidence .

Yeah, they seem to coordinate a lot. I mean Phil's been in game chats with some of these same influencers, Aaron took a selfie with some of them before the Xbox Showcase, so on and so forth .

Microsoft needs to be putting in more effort to make porting down easier.

From what Alex was saying on DF podcast, it's a case where there are simply too many options on the API side of DX12U, and devs have a surprisingly easy time of accidentally picking suboptimal solutions for their specific game, engine etc.

It'd seem Microsoft have yet to offer packages to help devs specifically target the Series consoles, and they probably don't want to provide that type of technical assistance unless it's an in-house team or "practically" in-house team. I'm just theorizing.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[Raonak]

What a shit statement. How does booty keep making such an ass of himself.

It's like MS realised they were getting gassed up too much and decided to act like crap in response.

 

[Mr Moose]

Can you explain how nintendo uses the medium better than ms and sony? I play 1p games from all platformholder tho.

By charging full price for their games forever.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

 

[Mr Moose]

Crackers!? That's offensive!

 

[93xfan]

From the OP:

He goes on to say that devs should find it easier once they've moved onto their second game for the platform, since they can "plan better, knowing where some of the sharp corners are."

Is this the quote? If so, what a fucking dishonest thread title.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

DF and Moore's law is dead YT channel keeps? taking about once devs are done with cross-gen shit...no just Series S but 8 gigas of Vram for GPUs are going to suffer the superiority of Mark Cerny's liquid metal and the "the most powerful console ever made.

We shall see how bad things are going to be.

 

[93xfan]

Matt Booty: “devs should find it easier once they've moved onto their second game for the platform, since they can plan better, knowing where some of the sharp corners are."

Thread: Booty said “devs just need to plan better, hehe”

People are really invested in quoting this dude out of context.



There is no way anyone with a reasonable grasp of English can infer - in good faith - this nonsense from what Booty said.

Even a random 10 year old off the street can easily comprehend the quote means Booty thinks it’ll get easier for devs the more games they make and the more experience they get optimizing for Series S.

Yuck.

Yep. Sometimes I really hate this forum.

Hey OP, what’s your reasoning for posting click-bait? You obviously had the whole quote.

What excuse do you have?