amstradcpc
Member
XB1 had a gpu architecture similar to Bonaire(GCN 1.1).
XBOX Scorpio: DX12 Built Directly Into GPU
- Thread starter Space_nut
- Start date
Risk Breaker
Member
No, XB1 doesn't "have" Polaris. OMFG.
Then XB1 doesnt have that chip? It just said that it does as well. You all just said it's already in XB1 then say it's something Polaris brought to the table. Then you are now saying XB1 doesn't support it? Make yo minds up
XB1 didn't have Polaris.
Polaris has improved command buffer features over the previous gen of AMD hardware that XB1 was based on. Given Microsoft's clarification I'm guessing the improvements in Scorpio are the Polaris improvements. (But configured to work very tightly in the Scorpio context, to the extent that this hw is programmable).
Good on MS for actually providing some clarification though, rather than letting things run.
Command buffer hardware existed before Polaris... Polaris has added and improved some things, not introduced the idea.
I think people are mixing up this chip for something polaris can do when it's something separate.
amstradcpc
Member
Only the command processor, the initial part of the GPU firing jobs to the GPU shader cores.
amstradcpc
Member
That doesnt explain the DF excitement hyping it and calling the cpu a jaguar evolved vs plain jaguars in PS4 Pro.
Risk Breaker
Member
GCN, AMD's GPU architecture, has a Command Processor (hardware that runs logic).
Polaris (a newer version of GCN) has improved that Command Processor.
It's simple, really.
And has MS improved it further than what we see in standard Polaris?
Metalingus5150
Member
The Polaris improvements are what MS is talking about.
They didn't refer to the Jaguars in PS4 Pro as 'plain' afaik... I think they pointed out that all of these are customised to some or other extent.
I'm not sure they really hyped it too much, but if they did, it might have been a misunderstanding on their part, and MS did reach out to them after the fact to try and correct that. DF is first and foremost a benchmarking site, that's its core competency. Without meaning any disrespect. Hardware and individual game software technicalities can be very complicated, and it's not necessarily something DF is always going to be on top of. In this kind of scenario, going by other features also, I think DF relies a lot on trusting what interviewees tell them, and they try not to layer on too much of their own stuff.
I'm not trying to pull anything out of my ass here. They mentioned processor, so I used the word chip, my mistake. Nowhere did I think or even insinuate that this was some stupid secret sauce.
Why are you always looking for something more?
We have the specs, Scorpio is fine as it is, no need to look for some special custom enhancements or whatever
Risk Breaker
Member
Sorry dude, I thought it was Space_nut repeating the "extra custom chip" idea. My apologies, that was a normal phrasing otherwise.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Layman's terms
The numbers are the numbers, its still a Jaguar CPU and its still 6TF but Microsoft is doing everything they they possibly can to make sure developers get as much of that Jaguar and 6TF on the screen.
The numbers are the numbers, its still a Jaguar CPU and its still 6TF but Microsoft is doing everything they they possibly can to make sure developers get as much of that Jaguar and 6TF on the screen.
Why not? They stated that about 60 hardware improvements were made. And nothing says they didn't improve further than what is out already unless you have the chip design yourself to say it's not. All we have is that it's a design they improved over previous chips
Chaplain
Member
Dee Dah Dave
Member
MS / Richard did make it sound like there was some kind of custom silicon for DX12. At least they cleared it up quickly.
Now on to the other 60 'customisation's' lol...
Now on to the other 60 'customisation's' lol...
Somehow Scorpio has 40 cus, 480 only has 36.
I don't get it. I thought rx 480 was a full Polaris 10 but apparently it isn't.
They just never released a full Polaris 10, or this is a brand new chip.
Samurai G0SU
Member
if only that was the only difference between something you might be implying to compare to.
iz aw goooooooooood tho
Risk Breaker
Member
You have a point, but remember that Scorpio is still months away.
We might get a slightly bigger 580, and there's also Vega pretty soon.
As a base, yes, but more CU's.
Maybe the rx 5x series might be a closer match if they are doing 40cu
WhiskerFrisker
Member
Customized 480
As a shareholder I'm fucking baffled though.
They are sitting out of the higher end segment when apparently they don't have to be.
A 12gb 1070/1080 fighter at 1300/1400mhz for $399 or so would be awesome.
amstradcpc
Member
More or less, except more custom work is disclosed. Only that currently the are no RX480 with 40 CUs in the market.Maybe with its relaunch as the RX500 series, the same chip more efficiently fabbed suppossely.
I wouldn't call it a 1070 fighter at all (we're talking PC here, no special sauce involved)
It's still a RX 480 @6TF
Since Scorpio is still a few months away, im expecting the rx5x rebranding to have maybe a 580x with 40cus.
It would be something to tide the vega switch.
I would assume it would clock at 1300-1400mhz or so as a dedicated card so it would be more like 6.5-7TF. 12gb gddr5.
Could definitely take on the 1070.
Risk Breaker
Member
Yeah, I agree, as someone that also owns AMD stock and has a 480
That said, my 480 at 1300+ MHz is pretty much 6 TFLOPS, so it's like Scorpio's GPU (less CUs but higher clock).
Yes, I know 40 CUs at 1300+ would be best
A heavily overclocked (1400+) RX 480 still isn't 1070 level, even with 4 more CUs I doubt it would be enough
Still I agree that the RX5xx line should been a liitle bit beefier if possible
Tripolygon
Banned
That has been part of GCN 1.2. It has been improved in Polaris and Vega but not new.
amstradcpc
Member
Lets hope Vegas tile rendering can catch up with Nvidia's solution.Has been its secret sauce since Maxwell.
amstradcpc
Member
Polaris(GCN 4) made the command processors(included two) programmables.
arhra
Member
It's a semi-custom APU. It's a unique arrangement of AMD IP blocks with some custom tweaks, designed to meet Microsoft's requirements and specifications.
Asking why they don't have a standalone GPU that matches the configuration exactly is like asking why they never released a desktop GPU with ESRAM, just because the XB1's APU had that.
Bolivar687
Banned
Soon
Nostremitus
Member
Some 480s have more than 36 cus, they are just locked for some reason. Custom BIOS can unlock them.
No worries =) I get it some are...overly excited and speculation runs rampant.
Likely to improve yields. That way if some CUs are no good, they can disable them and still consider it a good card.
32.
Huhuh just like that "secret sauce" is dead it's like OG Xbox/PS4 at launch over again. I wonder how many other stuff is really just features from Polaris renamed or talked about in a way to make it sound new.
I guess we wait until events like Hotchips to find out more.
I guess we wait until events like Hotchips to find out more.
That was 460 no? can't find anything on 480 unlocking.
Leyasu
Banned
Thanks for the reply
Tripolygon
Banned
Nope programmable Hardware Schedulers first appeared in GCN 1.2 also known as GCN 3.
dragonelite
Member
Aah that clear this up, seems like they did microcode level optimizations instead of silicon optimizations.
Basically it's just the ACEs of the Xbox One GPU being configured into a HWS & controlled on the microcode level.
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...ed-function-pipelines-through-firmware.58209/
geordiemp
Member
It was amusing, also some of the postings getting excited for the new CPU was entertaining.
thehillissilent
Member
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-project-scorpio-tech-revealed
This clarifies what MS meant with DirectX12 built in. It's not too shocking since it's already being used in XB1 and XB1S already.
This clarifies what MS meant with DirectX12 built in. It's not too shocking since it's already being used in XB1 and XB1S already.
Nothing to the extent found in Polaris though. And we are still waiting to see exactly how MS improved it
Hence
"Scorpio's Command Processor provides additional capability and programmability beyond what Xbox One/Xbox One S can do."
Colbert
Banned
There were hints back in the day from a slide of Frostbite Engine but it was just one a one line statement that "Xbox One has command processor microcode support".
When I read that slide some time ago it was not transparent to me that those microcode modifications could be that deep as it looks right now. I mean move a huge portion of the workload from the CPU to the GPU by microcoding a command processor? I never even thought about such a thing ...