KlickKlack
Banned
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Xbox Velocity Architecture - 100 GB is instantly accessible by the developer through a custom hardware decompression block
- Thread starter Bernkastel
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Aceofspades
Banned
Why are you putting Series X numbers as a response to me?
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
I am hearing 7 GB/s in this thread now. That choice would be like 400 USD at this point. Why would Microsoft even price their memory cards like that ? The Seagate official Xbox hard drives are not that expensive
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SportsFan581
Member
I hear you, there will be some sticker shock for those looking to upgrade the PS5. These high-end drives are where SSD makers make their money, they will be reticent to manufacture a budget priced unit for Sony (talking about upgrade parts not the internal) that could be slotted into PCs and cannibalize their most important market. This is where proprietary can offer more flexibility, the expansion "cards" for XSX could never Cannibalize Seagate's other interests, even if the pricing is out-of-line with similar products.
toxiichollow
Member
OneShotThrill
Member
Dont laugh cause micros fanboys will be right back there again with the amount of hype they keep boosting themselves. I remember when the 360 was king and xbox fanboys would be relentless with the superior multiplat threads and ps3 george foreman memes. FANBOYS in general suck.
nowhat
Gold Member
The issue is (and this is from what I've been able to parse from the presentation/articles, do correct me if I'm mistaken), PS5 offers six levels of priority. Like, "get me file X at priority 1, but I'll be satisfied with file Y at priority 6". And everything in between. But the official standard for NVMe drives offers no such granularity. As such, an expansion drive needs to be much faster to accommodate for that feature.
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Aceofspades
Banned
Once next gen consoles releases, prices of all generics will go down as economy of scale effect start applying across the industry. Same effect cannot be applied to proprietary solutions sold in limited quantities.
You're completely missing the point here. There is a competitive price on fast storage when something isn't proprietary. The XSX is tech made by other companies sold as proprietary inside a plastic caddy. It is either much lower performing or much more expensive for the consumer. Maybe even both as was the case with 360 drives.
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Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Its the same drive as the one inside XSX, so its not being produced in limited quantities.
Its not lower performing. They said its the same one as the one inside XSX.
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Dural
Member
You have no idea what the actual clocks will be under heavy load, Cerny was purposely vague when talking about it.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Can't argue with that.
Were x360 ever king though? I remember Xbox 360 selling hot but Sony evening out with their loyal fans. Every time I read someone saying Xbox 360 was king some other people say they got evened out and PS3 surpassed it.
But what do I know about this nonsense I'm just here for the laughs
MarkMe2525
Gold Member
Minivan?Yup, 4.8GB/s sounds ok, but it's COMPRESSED, with raw being 2.4GB/s only. PS5 is doing 5.5BG/s RAW, so around 11GB/s compressed.
Still, like a minivan, you can drive it to work.That's how too much steroid hinders your agility.
2.4 gbs raw puts you in the top four nvme available. It's more like a sports car. Sony is like a Tesla with extreme mode enabled.
I know it's nitpicky but a comparison to a minivan just seems like one is trying to marginalize a really good console SSD solution.
Andodalf
Banned
It’s simple what you do then. You make two trips! The question is, when devs are used to only having room for 5, how long will it take them to make games that need 200? And then 400? This is such a leap I think it will be a while before it’s a fully realized change, and it’s one that both consoles will experience. The obvious exception is PS5 exclusives, which will trailblaze and be indicative of how and where things can continue to improve. In the meantime, XSX will enjoy the benefits of their SSD while also having a bit more grunt behind it. This is why their console is the more balanced one right now.
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Von Hugh
Member
Nah, having fun. Throwing banter, and taking some. All good sport. Too much spare time, no school, no work.
Team Andromeda
Member
Well undercut it even #HappyDays
You're making no sense. The proprietary XSX SSD cards are the same as the ones inside the XSX?
Ok but that's not what anyone is discussing.
Sony showed loading of Spiderman on their SSD last year.
Team Andromeda
Member
You can say that. I'm sure Phil reads the forums and had enough of the SONY lot having a field day. Thank you so much, you made Team Xbox into a monster
Can't wait to see the irony of DF going on about sound next-gen, despite totally overlooking it for this gen comparisons
TBiddy
Member
Was never showed public was it? Wasn't it recorded off-screen by a spectator?
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Haha! In all honesty, I gave a dislike to the reveal video in the first day, after watching DF take and looking more into it I went back and flipped to like. If PS5 is sold at $400, which is very doable, then that's HUGE. The differences between the two should be minimal with one beating the other from game to game or on aspects. Enjoy
GymWolf
Gold Member
where exactly i said that?
i think sex is gonna be 500-550 dollars (pathetic, you can legally fuck literal top models in amsterdam with 50 euros)
but M has 2 advantages here, even if the sex is 600 dollars, they have far more money than sony so he can sell at big loss (or at least on a big loss than sony) and they probably have lockhart console for not hardcore gamers to get money from casuals.
i bet my name and avatar for 1 year if sony comes up with a 600 dollars ps5.
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SportsFan581
Member
There is always that possibility that Sony also has proprietary "cards" available, and the m.2 is just another option. This could be very likely, the "Sony" cards would be non-threatening to the SSD market as a whole, which would lead to better pricing.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Ascend
Member
I doubt $400 is doable with that SSD.Haha! In all honesty, I gave a dislike to the reveal video in the first day, after watching DF take and looking more into it I went back and flipped to like. If PS5 is sold at $400, which is very doable, then that's HUGE. The differences between the two should be minimal with one beating the other from game to game or on aspects. Enjoy
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
The NVMe SSD drive inside XSX, is the same one as the one in the memory card. The memory card contains a NVMe SSD drive which is inserted into PCIe 4.0 m.2. slot and the XSX has a NVMe SSD drive embedded on the board.
Xbox Series X: A Closer Look at the Technology Powering the Next Generation - Xbox Wire
A few months ago, we revealed Xbox Series X, our fastest, most powerful console ever, designed for a console generation that has you, the player, at its center. When it is released this holiday season, Xbox Series X will set a new bar for performance, speed and compatibility, all while allowing...
news.xbox.com
My post was about actual next gen games in response to "Xbox has no games". Like how Xbox has shown Halo Infinite, Hellblade II, Project Mara, Everwild and Flight Simulator. PS5 has only shown Godfall which is timed exclusive. Ofcourse, they both have more that will be shown later.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
We still don't know who made that, is it Samsung? Is it Sony "they do all kind of memories"?
But remember, the BOM of 2080Ti is $219 in 2018, so don't compare to consumer prices as they sell those console with a loss or minimal profits.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I haven’t been on GAF for a long time, but in my experience, this has to be some all-time mental gymnastics.
People really expected MS to just throw an SSD in there and wipe their hands, proclaiming “that’s it!”
of course they were gonna have their own tech to rival Sony.
We need to face reality. Cerny went all-in in an SSD drive that is faster than XsX but both drives are so fast it’s a real question of diminishing returns. The XsX is fast as hell and can do fun things with its ultra fast storage too, just like the PS5
The XsX is wonderful hardware, hopefully they get the games this time around
People really expected MS to just throw an SSD in there and wipe their hands, proclaiming “that’s it!”
of course they were gonna have their own tech to rival Sony.
We need to face reality. Cerny went all-in in an SSD drive that is faster than XsX but both drives are so fast it’s a real question of diminishing returns. The XsX is fast as hell and can do fun things with its ultra fast storage too, just like the PS5
The XsX is wonderful hardware, hopefully they get the games this time around
OneShotThrill
Member
The first 2 -3years of 360 life it was KING...soooo many quality, fun exclusives. One of my favorite all time systems. We would get laughed at for even owning a ps3. The ps3 came back into the fight with first party exclusives price drops and improved OS. Microsoft started chasing the Wii success and put their resources into Kinect.Can't argue with that.
Were x360 ever king though? I remember Xbox 360 selling hot but Sony evening out with their loyal fans. Every time I read someone saying Xbox 360 was king some other people say they got evened out and PS3 surpassed it.
But what do I know about this nonsense I'm just here for the laughs
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
Quite the opposite is happening:
Sony has been beating their chest about their SSD since at least April of last year. Microsoft has kinda-sorta said "yeah we have that too" and now they are trumpeting it louder because people realize that it's an important innovation.
Meanwhile, lots of downplaying of the value of SSD suddenly goes up in smoke in this thread. Even funnier that many of the same posters roamed the boards like a hungry wolf doing everything to mock people who dared espouse the value of an SSD as "Sony fanboys".
KlickKlack
Banned
300 MHz. 3800 vs 3500
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Yup. A 5.5 GB/s NVMe 1 TB SSD will cost around 300 USD.
Upto 4.8 GB/s, costs 240 USD.
Patriot Viper VP4100 M.2 2280 1TB PCIe Gen4 x4, NVMe 1.3 Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) VP4100-1TBM28H - Newegg.com
Buy Patriot Viper VP4100 M.2 2280 1TB PCIe Gen4 x4, NVMe 1.3 Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) VP4100-1TBM28H with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!www.newegg.com
Many people will have to contend with the included 825 GB SSD.
The SSD alone may drive PS5 price to around 600 USD.
Yeah, something tells me both systems will come in at the same MSRP. PS5's SSD and cooling system must be pretty notable in cost, the cooling in particular since Bloomberg specifically pointed that out when doing their BOM estimates.
Also according to Cerny the 3rd-party drives will actually have to be 7 GB/s in order to be compatible, because of the overhead the PS5's custom controller has to account for in making them function like the internal drive. I don't even think there are ANY 7 GB/s PCIe 4.0 NVMe drives on the market currently. If so, they're easily $400-$500 on their own.
Kinda feeling like the SSD this time is what BD was for PS3 back in 7th gen. It'll absolutely have its advantages and come to maturity in time, but for the early years it'll be awkward in finding its footing. Meanwhile I think XSX's additional CUs will be kinda like what Cell was for 7th gen (not nearly as complicated to get use out of tho); making smart use of them for things other than more graphics via GPGPU workloads that are smartly programmed to saturate them in parallel might be a learning curve to overcome, (there's a reason Cerny stressed narrow & fast in his speech) but 1st party that master use of those techniques could do some amazing things.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
I also forgot this
Also. from AMD
Microsoft & AMD Supercharge Console Gaming with the Xbox Series X
I am excited to share some of the details that Microsoft announced today on Xbox® Series X, and how it is built upon the partnership with the team at AMD. Together, we have relentlessly pushed the innovation boundaries of gaming devices for the last 15 years. Today, AMD and Microsoft are...community.amd.com
Bo_Hazem
Banned
splattered
Member
Yeah, more like this 1000hp minivan then
As a parent of two soon to be three... i'd be down for that haha
Where is AMDs PS5 blog post? So I can compare.
MarkMe2525
Gold Member
Now we are talking!!Yeah, more like this 1000hp minivan then
Tripolygon
Banned
Terrible explanation
Memory is a precious commodity in computer systems. Advances in memory architecture has been a lot slower than say everything else in a computer. Add on top of that, bandwidth is an even more precious commodity.
You have your CPUs and GPUs which process tons of information but if you don't have a fast enough Memory and bandwidth, they will be sitting idle most of the time waiting to be fed information.
You have 2GB storage to work with and you can transfer a file at 1GB/s from that storage to your CPU and GPU. it will take 2 seconds transfer 2GB worth of data. This is where compression comes in. If you compress the file, you can fit more things into the storage essentially giving you twice the storage. You can now fit 4GB worth of data into only 2GB worth of storage therefore you can transfer 4GB worth of data to your CPU and GPU giving them better utilization.
Compression comes at a cost of CPU performance because in say a regular computer, you have to use a CPU core or 2 dedicated to just compressing and decompressing data. That is not ideal in a console because you don't want to take away CPU cores that can be used for anything else. Here comes dedicated ASICs who's sole purpose is to be really good at compressing and decompressing data. The CPU is free to do other things while the ASIC will just keep compressing and decompressing data all day everyday without breaking a sweat.
To tie it to XSX and PS5.
XSX has a 1TB SSD that has a RAW bandwidth of 2.4GB/s they also have a decompression system that can handle doing 6GB/s. Meaning you can transfer 4.8GB worth of compressed data without breaking a sweat because they have 1.2GB/s overhead.
PS5 has a 825GB SSD that has a RAW bandwidth of 5.5GB/s, they also have a decompression system that can handle doing 22GB/s.
Meaning they can transfer 11GB worth of compressed data without breaking a sweat because they have 11GB/s overhead.
You always want to compress because you get more out of your storage and IO.
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KingT731
Member
Why is everyone acting like these things are going to stay expensive forever. We've already seen dramatic price drops just over ththe last 2 years as well as significant improvement in the tech used.
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BattleScar
Member
Well yes, and no. PS5 is 3500MHz with 8/16 threads. Series X is 3600MHz with 8/16 and only goes to 3800MHz with 8/8 threads.
T-Cake
Member
I thought this zlib/Kraken software had its own dedicated chip for decompression? So there would be no hit.
48086
Member
Thanks for the explanation. Where does the 1.2gb (xbox) and 11gb(ps5) overhead come from? I'm not sure I follow part.
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twerkitout
Member
Even 1TB standard NVME Drives aren't $99 today; then add in Samsungs markup, MS mark up, no competition and it is the opposite of consumer friendly. The price will never drop and will cost more than a standard NVME drive. PS5 compatible drives may cost more initially but they will offer better performance, the market will set the price, and they will go down in cost over time. Cost/benefit is much better with the model Sony has chosen and future proofed. I have never heard anyone ever prefer proprietary storage vs bring your own storage.
Tripolygon
Banned
That's just the decompression blocks.
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Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Find it yourself.
OneShotThrill
Member
I agree. People are really just skimming over numbers and running to beat their chests. I think Sony is gonna suprise people what they can do with the SSD boosts. I think MS has to come out guns blazing. They have to show why people should buy the series X. This whole wait a few years to see the first party results for the series X is a mistake. By then I can assure there will be a PS5 pro with beefier specs and modifications and Sony first party studios will be lining up for release after release again.
Bladed Thesis
Member
Why am I seeing the same actors who complain they can't discuss PS5 in PS5 threads without getting trolled posting in a XSX thread discussing XSX trolling?
Dee Dah Dave
Member
They will be cheaper than the SSD’s which are compatible with the PS5. They will also be hung on the racks right next to the Xbox controllers in the shop.
If that isn’t more consumer friendly than the choice on PS5, I don’t know what is.
toxiichollow
Member
There is none, there's a tweet from Lisa Su, but no press release from amd about the ps5... take that was you will.