Xenoblade Chronicles Unmarked Spoiler Thread SPOILERS DAMN IT
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Twilight Princess
Member
who does shulk like more, melia or fiora?
im glad that the ending leaves it to players imagination. i would have been pissed if its fiora!
im glad that the ending leaves it to players imagination. i would have been pissed if its fiora!
InternHertz
Member
Oh, I saw someone mention this thread in the other, so I came over.
85h11, just arrived at Agniratha and saw the reveal concerning the fight between Bionis and Mechonis.
I think that after the quests there I'll stay around a bit to grind if I can find a good spot. I'm level 67 for now, will try to aim for 69 at least before advancing the story by checking the 4 pillars.
I first thought the Mechons were trying to "save" the Bionis population before some kind of big event only they knew about and thus thought they maybe were not that bad after all. Turns out only one guy their side is really blind with vengeance, and the greatest asshole ever is in fact in your ranks.
85h11, just arrived at Agniratha and saw the reveal concerning the fight between Bionis and Mechonis.
I think that after the quests there I'll stay around a bit to grind if I can find a good spot. I'm level 67 for now, will try to aim for 69 at least before advancing the story by checking the 4 pillars.
I first thought the Mechons were trying to "save" the Bionis population before some kind of big event only they knew about and thus thought they maybe were not that bad after all. Turns out only one guy their side is really blind with vengeance, and the greatest asshole ever is in fact in your ranks.
Twilight Princess
Member
Is there a way to restore alcamoth? It's so freaking depressing. Now I understand why eryth sea and Alcamoth's bgm sound so sad.
Franchuzas87
Member
So, I was thinking... Alvis is like a cousin of HAL 9000 or what?
So, finished. Not sure how I feel about the Star Ocean 3 style twist in the ending, but it definitely bothered me less than it did there. It wasn't introduced with irritatingly happy music for one thing. I can't help but feel the ending would've been more satisfying without it though, I've spent the last 180 hours just accepting that the gods are just... there, I didn't need to be told they were scientists doing weird shit. Other than that it was a pretty satisfying ending.
As for the rest of the plot, one thing I really loved near the end was how they seemed to love dragging up old plot points to great effect. So much time had passed since the whole Homus/Entia interbreeding thing came up that I'd almost forgotten about it, and then they go and stick it at the centre of an awesome twist so you can look back and have everything make sense. Same goes for the odd bits of Dickson foreshadowing like in Satorl.
The whole High Entia thing was pretty awesomely unexpected though. The first time you wander into Alcamoth afterwards, end up killing one of them and get an engagement ring as a drop was just... ouch. And then it gets even worse if you've done all the quests, because suddenly you find yourself having to kill people whose relationships you've helped to set up (yep, I set him up with the pure blooded one), or repair (Louise ;_
, or just generally that you knew. Shulk twist was fantastic too (Who was the only one who survived? Shulk. Who was the first one who found him? Me. Well shit.)... hell that whole section of cutscenes were just awesome. Other than that one niggle in the ending the whole story was pretty great, well paced, lots of awesome twists (even if most of the best ones were crammed together), and I'm willing to overlook the niggle because the story works just fine without it, honestly.
So yeah, sogood.gif
As for the rest of the plot, one thing I really loved near the end was how they seemed to love dragging up old plot points to great effect. So much time had passed since the whole Homus/Entia interbreeding thing came up that I'd almost forgotten about it, and then they go and stick it at the centre of an awesome twist so you can look back and have everything make sense. Same goes for the odd bits of Dickson foreshadowing like in Satorl.
The whole High Entia thing was pretty awesomely unexpected though. The first time you wander into Alcamoth afterwards, end up killing one of them and get an engagement ring as a drop was just... ouch. And then it gets even worse if you've done all the quests, because suddenly you find yourself having to kill people whose relationships you've helped to set up (yep, I set him up with the pure blooded one), or repair (Louise ;_
, or just generally that you knew. Shulk twist was fantastic too (Who was the only one who survived? Shulk. Who was the first one who found him? Me. Well shit.)... hell that whole section of cutscenes were just awesome. Other than that one niggle in the ending the whole story was pretty great, well paced, lots of awesome twists (even if most of the best ones were crammed together), and I'm willing to overlook the niggle because the story works just fine without it, honestly.So yeah, sogood.gif
I just found this thread and wanted to bump it after completing the game today.
EDIT: Obviously SPOILERS FOR THE ENDING; don't read any of this if you're just late in the game.
I liked the ending "twist", and am thinking of going through a New Game+ to see if the story and the various explanations they threw at you hold together. First thing I noticed - the opening narration by Alvis describing the rise of Bionis and Mechonis is carefully worded not to contradict the history you learn of later. E.g., because it sounds like a "beginning of the world" story, I'd assumed at first that life didn't spring up until AFTER the two titans died and finished fighting, but the narration doesn't say that - it just doesn't mention there were already Machina, Giants, Homs and High Entia living on the two titans when the fight began.
I guess the big questions from the game are: what exactly is the "Monado" and what does it represent? Who is Zanza? And who is Shulk, and why is he able to create a "third" Monado? I just wanted to put down what I got from the game and hear what other people had to say or took away from it. Sorry this is long, but the game throws a lot at you in the end.
Monado
From what I understood, the "Monado" (roughly) is the ability or property of realizing potential, of steering the world through its infinite possibilities to transform the unrealized into the real and change destiny. The characters in this world understand it as the ability to direct "ether", the energy and endless possibility of life, to make their will a reality.
In a more literal sense, the Monado is the Alvis computer program, designed by Klaus and Meyneth, to transform unrealized matter in some way, and compute through matter's unrealized possibilities (i.e. "see the future")? (someone in the OT mentioned "Monado" comes from "Monad", which is not only a philosophical / Gnostic concept - oh, Takahashi - but also a concept in physics?) And whoever directs the program essentially has control of that ability to transform matter and unrealized potential and can make their will a reality.
This property of using will to change reality, of directing Alvis and controlling ether, takes physical form in this world as a sword, also called a "Monado", which both Zanza and Meyneth have. Since Alvis the character wears a key on his neck, maybe each sword can be thought of as a "key" to the system?
Zanza
Zanza was originally a human scientist named Klaus on our Earth, who was working on some sort of physics experiment to "create a universe" using Alvis (I got a real CERN / Hadron Collider vibe from the imagery they used). After the accidental destruction of the existing universe, Klaus and Meyneth were apparently the only beings left, except only their "souls" or "wills" were intact. They directed the Alvis program to create worlds in their own likenesses (Meyneth being of a more technical inclination?) and inhabited bodies to take corporeal form, while also controlling the Bionis and Mechonis. They created the races of Homs, Giants, High Entia, Machina, Nopon, etc. so they wouldn't be lonely, and were for all intents and purposes "gods", since they had administrative privileges over Alvis.
Klaus feared his death and annihilation into eventual nothingness, so when he realized the beings of Bionis would eventually move on and forget him, leaving him truly "alone", he decided to have cycles of destruction and recreation, with the High Entia / Telethia as his agents of destruction, so that he would always be in control of destiny and life on Bionis. Meyneth accepted that her creations would eventually move on from her with a will of their own.
Zanza attacked Meyneth and Mechonis because... he couldn't accept another God with beings and life that would move on without him? (forgot some of this part). When he is weakened by the fight, his creations, the High Entia, imprison his possessed corporeal body (a Giant, formerly friends with Egil) and his "soul" is trapped with the "Monado" sword / key in the ruins at Valak. Zanza accepts this because he has a vision that he will be released through Shulk, and directs Dickson to prepare for it.
Shulk
Shulk is a random Homs boy who accompanies his parents on their expedition to the ruins in the Valak Mountains where the Monado sword, and Zanza's soul, are kept. Zanza's soul sucks the life energy from everyone in the room, including Shulk, and inhabits Shulk's body. There is no special reason for choosing Shulk, except he was there and Zanza saw it in a vision.
Shulk's will and personality are developed independently of Zanza. But also, it seems by virtue of being Zanza's host, he develops additional abilities and powers beyond what Zanza intended or realized. When Zanza is released, Shulk continues to live because he has developed his own "Monado" within. Not because he was born special, but because fate made him Zanza's host, and because of the strength of his own will.
This seemed to be a running theme - a creation or student developing independent will, thought and abilities beyond those given by a creator or taught by a master. So Shulk can eventually overcome Dickson, and can develop his own Monado and will apart from Zanza, the same way the High Entia can decide to escape their fate as Telethia, or Homs can develop independent thought and defy "God" and destiny.
Shulk essentially gains administrative privileges, his own "key", to the Alvis program, but his final direction is apparently one to let the beings that are created to determine for themselves the world they'll live in. I.e. let life and creation develop independently through evolution and chaos, without any "God" or administrator controlling things.
So, that's what I got - Takahashi plots are always open to interpretation, though. But I felt I could make rough sense of this one, and it didn't involve multiple organizations, acronyms, and too convoluted of a backstory. I would be interested in seeing the game's planning documents and concepts (similar to a Xenogears "Perfect Works"), though. Really enoyed the game; best RPG I've played in years.
EDIT: Obviously SPOILERS FOR THE ENDING; don't read any of this if you're just late in the game.
I liked the ending "twist", and am thinking of going through a New Game+ to see if the story and the various explanations they threw at you hold together. First thing I noticed - the opening narration by Alvis describing the rise of Bionis and Mechonis is carefully worded not to contradict the history you learn of later. E.g., because it sounds like a "beginning of the world" story, I'd assumed at first that life didn't spring up until AFTER the two titans died and finished fighting, but the narration doesn't say that - it just doesn't mention there were already Machina, Giants, Homs and High Entia living on the two titans when the fight began.
I guess the big questions from the game are: what exactly is the "Monado" and what does it represent? Who is Zanza? And who is Shulk, and why is he able to create a "third" Monado? I just wanted to put down what I got from the game and hear what other people had to say or took away from it. Sorry this is long, but the game throws a lot at you in the end.
Monado
From what I understood, the "Monado" (roughly) is the ability or property of realizing potential, of steering the world through its infinite possibilities to transform the unrealized into the real and change destiny. The characters in this world understand it as the ability to direct "ether", the energy and endless possibility of life, to make their will a reality.
In a more literal sense, the Monado is the Alvis computer program, designed by Klaus and Meyneth, to transform unrealized matter in some way, and compute through matter's unrealized possibilities (i.e. "see the future")? (someone in the OT mentioned "Monado" comes from "Monad", which is not only a philosophical / Gnostic concept - oh, Takahashi - but also a concept in physics?) And whoever directs the program essentially has control of that ability to transform matter and unrealized potential and can make their will a reality.
This property of using will to change reality, of directing Alvis and controlling ether, takes physical form in this world as a sword, also called a "Monado", which both Zanza and Meyneth have. Since Alvis the character wears a key on his neck, maybe each sword can be thought of as a "key" to the system?
Zanza
Zanza was originally a human scientist named Klaus on our Earth, who was working on some sort of physics experiment to "create a universe" using Alvis (I got a real CERN / Hadron Collider vibe from the imagery they used). After the accidental destruction of the existing universe, Klaus and Meyneth were apparently the only beings left, except only their "souls" or "wills" were intact. They directed the Alvis program to create worlds in their own likenesses (Meyneth being of a more technical inclination?) and inhabited bodies to take corporeal form, while also controlling the Bionis and Mechonis. They created the races of Homs, Giants, High Entia, Machina, Nopon, etc. so they wouldn't be lonely, and were for all intents and purposes "gods", since they had administrative privileges over Alvis.
Klaus feared his death and annihilation into eventual nothingness, so when he realized the beings of Bionis would eventually move on and forget him, leaving him truly "alone", he decided to have cycles of destruction and recreation, with the High Entia / Telethia as his agents of destruction, so that he would always be in control of destiny and life on Bionis. Meyneth accepted that her creations would eventually move on from her with a will of their own.
Zanza attacked Meyneth and Mechonis because... he couldn't accept another God with beings and life that would move on without him? (forgot some of this part). When he is weakened by the fight, his creations, the High Entia, imprison his possessed corporeal body (a Giant, formerly friends with Egil) and his "soul" is trapped with the "Monado" sword / key in the ruins at Valak. Zanza accepts this because he has a vision that he will be released through Shulk, and directs Dickson to prepare for it.
Shulk
Shulk is a random Homs boy who accompanies his parents on their expedition to the ruins in the Valak Mountains where the Monado sword, and Zanza's soul, are kept. Zanza's soul sucks the life energy from everyone in the room, including Shulk, and inhabits Shulk's body. There is no special reason for choosing Shulk, except he was there and Zanza saw it in a vision.
Shulk's will and personality are developed independently of Zanza. But also, it seems by virtue of being Zanza's host, he develops additional abilities and powers beyond what Zanza intended or realized. When Zanza is released, Shulk continues to live because he has developed his own "Monado" within. Not because he was born special, but because fate made him Zanza's host, and because of the strength of his own will.
This seemed to be a running theme - a creation or student developing independent will, thought and abilities beyond those given by a creator or taught by a master. So Shulk can eventually overcome Dickson, and can develop his own Monado and will apart from Zanza, the same way the High Entia can decide to escape their fate as Telethia, or Homs can develop independent thought and defy "God" and destiny.
Shulk essentially gains administrative privileges, his own "key", to the Alvis program, but his final direction is apparently one to let the beings that are created to determine for themselves the world they'll live in. I.e. let life and creation develop independently through evolution and chaos, without any "God" or administrator controlling things.
So, that's what I got - Takahashi plots are always open to interpretation, though. But I felt I could make rough sense of this one, and it didn't involve multiple organizations, acronyms, and too convoluted of a backstory. I would be interested in seeing the game's planning documents and concepts (similar to a Xenogears "Perfect Works"), though. Really enoyed the game; best RPG I've played in years.
Marrshu said:
Hmm, listening to it again it does sound like Shulk, just more formal. I also confused Shulk's voice with Zanza's a lot, but the credits show them being different actors (at first I thought they used the same actor to draw a connection between the two, with Shulk being some sort of "copy" or something, or Zanza choosing to take on the form of his host, but I guess that wouldn't make sense since Zanza already had an original body, and Shulk is a random Homs boy. But they do look and sound very alike.)
jgwhiteus said:
Yeah, like I said, you can't mistake their actors in the Japanese version. Alvis sounds like chaos, Shulk... does not.
(Shulk also sounds more formal-ish in tone in the Japanese version too, without actually sounding like Alvis... which makes me believe it's just a nameless narrator)
Duderz said:
No - link to the regular opening movie is a few posts above, and he's wearing normal gear (also, I noticed his claws are glowing red in the New Game+).
Also, which "Monado" is Dunban holding? It's not the Monado 1 or 2, and it's not Shulk's - it's just looks like a completely different design.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Well, during the last battle you're automatically equipped with the Monado III, so I would assume it's that.
Man God said:
Okay, I think he (Dunban) was equipping "Chosen One", which is already a glowing sword, so the resemblance to the Monado is probably unintentional. Though I noticed he used automatic Enchant and Regenerate auras (since he can't use Monado Arts anymore?). Curious to see what other sorts of changes are sprinkled throughout.
Also, playing through the opening fight in Colony 9 I couldn't put any materials in my inventory since it was capped and already full at 60 - does anyone know / remember how you get your materials capacity to expand in the game? I never noticed it happening when I was playing my first runthrough.
Delio said:
True, but it would be awkward as hell to redo the cutscene so that it changes when passed between one and the other there.
Though considering how much other detail is there (Fiora is wearing exactly what she was before being killed, on the same skill tree, at the same level. So awesome.)
Extra Sauce
Member
Just finished the game.
The space station scene was a mind-blower. Love how they pretty much connected the Xenobladeverse with our own universe. Zanza and Meyneth were human scientists working on a space station before becoming gods of the new world. Incredible.
Pretty satisfying conclusion, overall. The epilogue warmed the cockles of my heart, with one last look at the gorgeous Colony 9.
The space station scene was a mind-blower. Love how they pretty much connected the Xenobladeverse with our own universe. Zanza and Meyneth were human scientists working on a space station before becoming gods of the new world. Incredible.
Pretty satisfying conclusion, overall. The epilogue warmed the cockles of my heart, with one last look at the gorgeous Colony 9.
2 Things I hate about Xenoblade Chronicles.
1. The collectathon. It's optional, you don't need it to beat the game. But holy crap, why do you do this to us? A scar on a perfectly fine game.
2. Riki's English voice... Where did this come from. Riki's Japanese voice was cute cuddly, where did this rasp old man noise came from? It ruined the joke when Riki was introduced.
Random thought - When the Mechonis and Bionis started moving and Bionis thurst the sword into the cockpit room. Tears in my eyes, so epic.
1. The collectathon. It's optional, you don't need it to beat the game. But holy crap, why do you do this to us? A scar on a perfectly fine game.
2. Riki's English voice... Where did this come from. Riki's Japanese voice was cute cuddly, where did this rasp old man noise came from? It ruined the joke when Riki was introduced.
Random thought - When the Mechonis and Bionis started moving and Bionis thurst the sword into the cockpit room. Tears in my eyes, so epic.
Tribes of Trusty
Member
Xanthe is one of the best boss battle theme ever.
It's High Entia in design. Remember, to most people, the High Entia are a myth since they are so rarely seen on lower Bionis. So it's probably something from before the High Entia became so xenophobic.
slaughterking
Member
Such a pretty game. :3
Having played my New Game+ to the Bionis' Leg so far, it's actually pretty amazing just how much of the big main plot is directly hinted at in the first few hours of the game, right down to Alvis teasing his own identity (in a dream sequence) hours before Alvis is even properly introduced in the game.
I prefer Riki's English voice. Makes him sound slightly... I dunno, deranged? Like his character is sort of toying with the concept of a mascot character unlike those like Chu-Chu who played it straight and were just annoying aside from a certain, utterly inane moment. Plus the whole race comes off as vaguely sociopathic given how eagerly they are to send him to almost certain death over DEBTS.
Have a similar question... what the hell is Colony 9 supposed to be? Some sort of upside-down ship? I mean it looks like they built around the anti-mechon artillery weapons.
Just finished the game holy shit that was amazing. So crazy. So many underlying themes, etc. Would probably go as far as saying that Shulk, Klaus, and Alvis can be seen as the Holy Trinity? Shulk can be Jesus since he was taken the form of Zanza (God), after all he was reborn lol Might be stretching it a bit. Haha
I mean, it's Takahashi, so anything's on the table.
I don't think it's stretching it at all. The Shulk-Jesus allusions are very obvious. Also he frees the homs from "fate" and directly says we don't need a God to Zanza. I haven't thought of Alvis as the holy spirit, though. It could work, I guess.
Since this is a spoiler thread, I shall also mention that if there ever was a successor, I'd love it to be half-sequel, half-prequel. You play Melia in the new world and Klaus Zanza in the original world. (Special thrills in the middle of the game, when a character from the original world turns up in the new world)
Yeah I suspected even though I have never finished any of his other (Xeno) games.
I was ganna say Meyneth as the holy spirit but wouldn't make much sense. I thought they were ganna flesh out the whole Yin Yang theme more, Well then again they were talking about continuing cycles, Bah im making sense out of nonsense. I would totally dig a sequel/prequel though.
Totally. I loved the space area leading up to Zanza.
I just finished it about an hour ago. 70 hours and level 80. Was not really expecting the twist with zanza and meyneth being human scientists but absolutely Ioved the final third. The part in space was amazing. Would love to see some shots of that in dolphin. This was my first takahasi game, never played any of the xenogears games before, but I thoroughly enjoyed the story. The one question I did have was, the giant that we free on prison island, are there any more of his race at any point in the game? Or was he a one of a kind that zanza created to inhabit.
there is a lot of backstory about that in various side quests (most of them are endgame). They were at war with those spiders, and in the end they lost the war and got extinguished. Many of their buildings remained - all those ancient ruins everywhere, the "castle" in satorl marsh, the ruins deep in the jungle, the tomb in tephra, etc.
Adam Prime
hates soccer, is Mexican
I loved the above comparison to the Star Ocean 3 ending... that's exactly what I thought when I finished it. "Oh, everyone's just in a computer program?"
So what do yall think The World of Xenoblade actually is? Does NG+ give us any indiciations. So the two scientists effecitvely BLEW UP THE UNIVERSE... and what remains? A computer program? And a world? So they "build themselves" into the new world/game. and where did the two titans come from? Did the two scientists build those two into the world?
I don't get it.
So what do yall think The World of Xenoblade actually is? Does NG+ give us any indiciations. So the two scientists effecitvely BLEW UP THE UNIVERSE... and what remains? A computer program? And a world? So they "build themselves" into the new world/game. and where did the two titans come from? Did the two scientists build those two into the world?
I don't get it.
I FINALLY started plowing through the "Secret Files" book that came with my French LE. Was it mentioned here that that's actually a novel-like chapter in it about how Fiora got her body back? It was a pretty sweet addition.
The whole Dengeki part is really nice. Perfect for people who loved the game. Funny 4koma, new art galore (from other illustrators, yet pretty good!), more or less interesting poll results about favorites characters, characters combinations, scenes, environnements (all with additional commentary...
I'm glad the didn't miss the boat on that book.
The whole Dengeki part is really nice. Perfect for people who loved the game. Funny 4koma, new art galore (from other illustrators, yet pretty good!), more or less interesting poll results about favorites characters, characters combinations, scenes, environnements (all with additional commentary...
I'm glad the didn't miss the boat on that book.
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