Penguin nerd
Member
Requeim said:
This. Finished the game a few weeks ago and I've been listening to the soundtrack almost non-stop ever since.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
"You're a WHAT!?" Nier Gestalt|Replicant |OT|
- Thread starter Adam Blade
- Start date
This. Finished the game a few weeks ago and I've been listening to the soundtrack almost non-stop ever since.
Adam Blade
WWKC
What are the "must-do" quests, in your guys' opinion?
ZephyrFate
Banned
the lighthouse quests, and any that sound like they'll provide a story, because there's some funny dialogue in many of the questsAdam Blade said:
The boar quest just off the top of my head. I'd recommend you to just accept all the quests you come across regardless of whether or not you actually plan to finish them. That way, at the very least, you get some very humorous banter that helps build up the characters' personalities.Adam Blade said:
EDIT: someone mentioned that this thread was growing bigger than the fable III thread. As of editing this, this thread is currently 7 posts longer.
Was your body ready?
Coldsnap said:
I upgraded one of the earlier two-handed swords (Beast something) to level 2 (and later on level 3, I think), that was enough to breeze through the game for three endings. I always used the jump attack where he slashes the sword into the ground, then I immediately rolled, then jump attack again, rinse repeat. By rolling past the enemies or being airborne during the attack, you pretty avoid taking any damage while inflicting a lot yourself, and you also get around the otherwise slow attacks of the two-handed swords. I found it very effective (apart from one of those boss battles in the desert area, perhaps). Never used the spears much myself, but I can imagine them being pretty effective as well. I mean, it's not exactly the hardest game in the world (at least not on normal).
OfWhiteSkinOnRedLeather
Member
I used that as well. After a couple of hours, I moved on.ninj4junpei said:
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
The one spear everyone should consider is The Phoenix Spear. Spears are generally awesome in Nier and one with ridiculous stats is a great idea.
But yeah, easy game on normal and especially Easy. Apparently on Hard enemies scale with the player so it's a bit more balanced(plus rares are easier to get..dunno if it's worth it but whatevs).
But yeah, easy game on normal and especially Easy. Apparently on Hard enemies scale with the player so it's a bit more balanced(plus rares are easier to get..dunno if it's worth it but whatevs).
brandonh83
Banned
Rented it today to see if I want to buy it used. I think it's okay from what I've played but I'm suspecting the more I play it, the more I'll get into it. That's the hope anyway.
jonnybryce
Member
Why do you guys think the reviews were so "off" with this game? Reading user reviews and "professional" reviews is like night and day.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Yeah, if I didn't hear so many good things from friends I probably would have never gotten it.jonnybryce said:
â Narayan
Member
Because most "professional" reviewers are dipshits who only seem to give games good reviews when they get moneyhats.jonnybryce said:
Penguin nerd
Member
InfiniteNine said:
If I had never checked out this thread I never would have went out to get Nier either. I've tried telling a bunch of my cousins and friends about Nier in the past few weeks but they all cite the reviews and how "it looks like a ps2 game"...
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Tell them I want their magical PS2s. Nier isn't that great graphically, but it by no means on a PS2 levelPenguin nerd said:If I had never checked out this thread I never would have went out to get Nier either. I've tried telling a bunch of my cousins and friends about Nier in the past few weeks but they all cite the reviews and how "it looks like a ps2 game"...
The Shadow
Member
jonnybryce said:
If you ignored the ambiance of Nier, ie, the story, music, graphics, etc, and just judged it based on the actual game...it is kinda average and the fetch quests are tedious with little reward.
The thing is, it's the music and story that made it worth playing for me. Heck, I freaking loved the nod to text adventures in the game. Otherwise I probably wouldn't have bothered to play up to the first boss.
That's what makes it hard to review. It's not going to have the same effect on everyone. Depends on why you play games, for the mechanics or for the mood/setting/story.
Penguin nerd
Member
InfiniteNine said:
Was totally going to lock them in a room alone with Nier for a few weeks.
Liabe Brave
Member
This was responded to already, but not terribly clearly.Coldsnap said:
The DLC adds a book to the shelves in Nier's home. When you interact with it, it takes you into some new scenarios. The first time, you have one bare door to go through, and must play everything in order. They mix a little bit of platforming (not so great), a segment of first-person shooting (okay, but not exciting), and combat scenarios with lots of very tough enemies (good!). You play alone, without any party. As you progress, the hub adds two more doors that let you skip to later portions of the DLC if you play through it again.
In terms of new content, it's so-so. Besides the FPS part set in Facade, few of the areas are directly from the main game, but they do re-use old assets such that one part is Lost Shrine-y, one Desert Temple-y, and so on. There are visual filters on the whole time that don't add much.
However, you do get to play as young Nier, and finishing segments earns you money, new weapons (nothing uber, but they don't count for trophies so no drawback either), and two new costumes (which also change Emil and Kaine's appearance). Unfortunately, you do not earn any XP for killing the tough enemies, nor do they ever drop items besides health. However, as already stated there are parts behind door 3 that have a lot of breakable crates, and these crates contain nothing but weapon upgrade items. Some are random each time, and these can give you very, very rare materials that are otherwise a real bitch to obtain.
So if you want all the achievements, the DLC isn't necessary but is extremely helpful. If you don't care, it's pretty good but doesn't really expand the world or story. (It contains some well-written cryptic messages that only make sense if you've finished the game, but no narrative as such.) I'd say level 27 is kind of low, but you could make it work. I did the DLC at about 32 or 33, and it was plenty doable.
pancakesandsex
Member
jonnybryce said:
It's definitely more than the sum of it's parts, and I think that when a reviewer focuses on things like, oh let's say the fishing minigame they were doing completely wrong, they tend to stop caring about the bigger picture.
RpgN
Junior Member
Or you have reviewers praising a hyped game to death and not mentioning any of its flaws...
Nier is indeed a very tough game to review. I think Nier is compared with other games technically or in budget and not in orginality and what it tries to do. You have those 'journalists' complaining how they're tired of the same old shit and want some orginality, the same people end up giving call of duty x or halo y at least a 9 and give it so much attention while barely mentioning a game like Nier and hardly give it any attention. Nier's story and soundrack is great, the world it tries to flesh out is done well and the localization couldn't be any better. With the gameplay, it tries so many things out, it's a lot of genres put into one but the gameplay is average but not bad. The game doesn't hide the fact that their makers love and respect other games such as the Legend of Zelda and has more charming little things about it. The quests, while have nice writing in them, are fetch quests and repetitive. You appreciate the game less if you try to do every one of them on your first playthrough. The music can get tiring if you keep revisiting previous areas and listen to it over and over. Not to mention the game's graphics are nothing to write home about but the style is very nice. I personally care more about the style than graphics.
I think priorities lies elswhere and they don't care about the positive points enough. And the fishing is really not that bad as it was made out to be. It's funny how they can nitpick about the fishing aspect like that (even though it is not a flaw or technically bad) but ignoring the many flaws a game like Grand Theft Auto 4 has for instance.
Nier is indeed a very tough game to review. I think Nier is compared with other games technically or in budget and not in orginality and what it tries to do. You have those 'journalists' complaining how they're tired of the same old shit and want some orginality, the same people end up giving call of duty x or halo y at least a 9 and give it so much attention while barely mentioning a game like Nier and hardly give it any attention. Nier's story and soundrack is great, the world it tries to flesh out is done well and the localization couldn't be any better. With the gameplay, it tries so many things out, it's a lot of genres put into one but the gameplay is average but not bad. The game doesn't hide the fact that their makers love and respect other games such as the Legend of Zelda and has more charming little things about it. The quests, while have nice writing in them, are fetch quests and repetitive. You appreciate the game less if you try to do every one of them on your first playthrough. The music can get tiring if you keep revisiting previous areas and listen to it over and over. Not to mention the game's graphics are nothing to write home about but the style is very nice. I personally care more about the style than graphics.
I think priorities lies elswhere and they don't care about the positive points enough. And the fishing is really not that bad as it was made out to be. It's funny how they can nitpick about the fishing aspect like that (even though it is not a flaw or technically bad) but ignoring the many flaws a game like Grand Theft Auto 4 has for instance.
jonnybryce said:
Like others have said this game is really hard to review objectively. Kind of impossible really.
The whole game is Demon's Souls-esque in that it feels like some crazy throwback to some bygone era of video games. There does need to be, at least in some part, an affection for a wide breadth of genres from the player for it to really be appreciated for what it's attempting to achieve. I found that it takes a very long time for it to really sink in and dig into your skin. It's hard for me to look at one aspect of the game and say "yes, now this is the reason I jumped aboard of the NDF-1." It's a game that's legitimately more than the sum of it's parts. I think that due to the amount of time that you do have to commit to see everything and let the atmosphere sink in... and to actually think about the game in an intelligent fashion....
Frankly, I think that's just asking too much from most video game reviewers.
I actually just beat my first playthrough about half an hour ago. I think you'll find that this video is essentially a pixel perfect copy of my own reaction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9KyBdPeKHg&t=0m25s
I have so many questions now! Oh man, ohhhh god. Massive spoilers:!!!
So I accidentally spoiled myself to Emil's death and the shade/human connection. His death still had tons of impact on me though. That and I didn't read in depth so I didn't know about the whole "people have been dead for 1300 years." The game makes strong hints to the wacked out human thing though, what with all the coloring books and cooking utensils that the shade's drop. :lol
I totally got super engrossed during the ending, and I didn't take the time to pause and read through those documents Weiss obtained. Is it worth replaying just the end to read them? There's so many questions.
SERIOUSLY! Why can Kainé hear shades, is it because she's possessed? What the frak started the scrawl? Is the Yonah I saved actually my daughter or does she think I'm the shadowlord?! Why did humans go extinct, and if they're all dead what the fuck are we? Why does the shadowlord look like me? Did killing the Shadowlord accomplish anything? Or is the world still under seige? The scene with pre-eyepatch Nier and Yonah at the end went over my head... I've gotta sleep on this. What does this meeaaaaan?
I totally got super engrossed during the ending, and I didn't take the time to pause and read through those documents Weiss obtained. Is it worth replaying just the end to read them? There's so many questions.
SERIOUSLY! Why can Kainé hear shades, is it because she's possessed? What the frak started the scrawl? Is the Yonah I saved actually my daughter or does she think I'm the shadowlord?! Why did humans go extinct, and if they're all dead what the fuck are we? Why does the shadowlord look like me? Did killing the Shadowlord accomplish anything? Or is the world still under seige? The scene with pre-eyepatch Nier and Yonah at the end went over my head... I've gotta sleep on this. What does this meeaaaaan?
To get endings C/D do I just need every weapon or do they have to be fully upgraded too?
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Man I like Weiss, and I suck at fishing. :lol Oh well it gave me the fish in the end so it wasn't too bad.
TheShampion
Member
Weiss is great because is is essentially an Alan Rickman character following you around. Its like Snape and Marvin the Paranoid Android had a baby, and it was a book.
Foxix said:
I've said it before, but the second playthrough is essential in every way, it answers a lot of these questions, just remember to not skip any cutscenes just because you think you've seen them before.
as for your question, you don't need to fully upgrade the weapons.
I played through the game two times myself (endings a and b) in a very short time, so i just watched the final endings on youtube, as nothing changes besides the ending after you have gotten ending b
slaughterking
Member
Well, I think there were many things that went wrong with Nier. First of all SE did a terrible job with the PR for the game. For a long time they wanted us believe Nier was their own DMC or Bayonetta-style character action game; it just never looked anywhere near that good from a gameplay perspective, so people were naturally put off and thought this would be the next Bullet Witch or some other third rate hack and slash.jonnybryce said:
Then we had that whole futa thing going on and every Nier thread then became one ridiculous penis joke. Nobody took the game seriously anymore and there was a lot of confusion about the two different versions and many people didn't really understand what game they would eventually release in the west.
It was really difficult to be genuinely interested in the game before release. At no point had SE really emphasized the story aspect of the game. Or the soundtrack and atmosphere which turned out to be some of the highlights for most people.
So in the end most reviewers didn't give Nier a fair chance. That definitely tells us a lot about video game journalism, but in a way you can't blame. Nier doesn't give a very good first impression and if you are already in that mindset that this is probably a bad game, you just kinda don't want to waste much time on it.
What I think would've really helped the game would've been situation similar to Demons Soul's, where an English translated Asia version would've slowly build awareness and hype among the hardcore fans, which then would've slowly spread to more and more gamers and eventually to the gaming media, which then had to give the game a fair chance.
I'm not saying Nier is a 9/10 candidate, though -- but it's certainly a better game than most reviews made us believe.
The Shadow
Member
Foxix said:
Kaine can hear shades because that Tyrann shade is half-possessing her. The scrawl is caused by the replicant's gestalt going feral, losing itself. If the gestalt/shade goes feral, the replicant/body dies. There is no "cure" as long as the gestalt and the replicant are separated and over time all gestalts will go feral, meaning every replicant will get the black scrawl. The Yonah you saved is the replicant Yonah because gestalt Yonah left her. Humans went extinct because of some virus (I forget the name). All the people you see are soulless replicants, or shells, for the human souls that Nier and the people know as shades, aka gestalts. The shadowlord looks like Nier because the shadowlord is Nier's gestalt/soul. Replicant bodies are created based on the original soul. Killing the shadowlord, and more importantly, destroying Grimoire Noir essentially doomed the human race. By Noir and Weiss combining, it would have forced all gestalts (souls) into their replicant bodies saving the human race. By destrying Noir, and Weiss "dying", this can't be done anymore. End scene with Nier and Yonah is just there to show how bittersweet the end is. He and Yonah can live out the rest of their life in peace at the expense that humanity is doomed.
It's definitely worth playing the game again to get ending B. There's additional cutscenes.
And really, if you thought the revelation in A was sad, Ending B and the additional cutscenes will kick you in the nuts and make you, as Nier, feel like a complete monster.
Femmeworth
Banned
The Phoenix Spear is even broken in hard mode. The triangle button might as well be a win button. I switched back to hard mode during my recent playthrough at the halfway point. I had a little bit of trouble in the beginning, but that was it.PepsimanVsJoe said:
Show them the Seafront, and ask them again if they think it is a PS2 game. If that doesn't work, show them boar drifting. If they still are not interested, take away their gamer cards.Penguin nerd said:If I had never checked out this thread I never would have went out to get Nier either. I've tried telling a bunch of my cousins and friends about Nier in the past few weeks but they all cite the reviews and how "it looks like a ps2 game"...
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
The story about Popola and Devola with alchohol in them, haha. :lol
dang, i am sorta disappointed at the larger fish. When you catch them he sort of just throws them back, while the smaller ones he holds up. I like looking at what the fish looks like, also I want to stand next to a giant Royal Fish.
I calibrated my plasma last night and this game looks so much better. I didn't know it at the time but my brightness and contrast were wrong which made my TV clip every dark shade, so now the game actually doesn't look like a washed out watercolor painting like Deadly Premonition.
I calibrated my plasma last night and this game looks so much better. I didn't know it at the time but my brightness and contrast were wrong which made my TV clip every dark shade, so now the game actually doesn't look like a washed out watercolor painting like Deadly Premonition.
Haunted
Member
I honestly think one of the most interesting things Nier does is how it frequently switches perspective and camera viewpoints. It's almost comical how we define entirely different genres via simple superficial changes in presentation, and Nier plays with that.
3rd person action RPG
2D side scrolling beat em up
2D block sliding puzzler
isometric/top down hack n slash
text adventure (by simply cutting out the background)
So interesting.
3rd person action RPG
2D side scrolling beat em up
2D block sliding puzzler
isometric/top down hack n slash
text adventure (by simply cutting out the background)
So interesting.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Is there a good place to get rice? Doing the Bon Appetit! quest right now.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Nier also probably would have stood a better chance last generation rather than this one.
The modern game industry starts with a "shitty until proven good" mindset with lower-budget Japanese games that aren't from Nintendo. The press got Nier and, at best, went "This isn't really as good as DMC or God of War" and that was the end of that.
Which is a perfectly valid thought process, but if it came out on the PS2 in 2003, I think the mindset would have been different.
The modern game industry starts with a "shitty until proven good" mindset with lower-budget Japanese games that aren't from Nintendo. The press got Nier and, at best, went "This isn't really as good as DMC or God of War" and that was the end of that.
Which is a perfectly valid thought process, but if it came out on the PS2 in 2003, I think the mindset would have been different.
Where does one find mouse tails? (Rat tails? Whatever you need to make the drink for Popola along with the lizard bits.) I know I've seen them before (since I have a few) but I have absolutely no recollection of where I got them from.
Those text segments in the Forest of Myth are rad.
Edit: Thanks InfiniteNine!
Those text segments in the Forest of Myth are rad.
Edit: Thanks InfiniteNine!
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
They are in the main area of the junkyard. They'll just be running around outside the boys shop in the sand or whatever.ultron87 said:
Dogfacedgod
Member
Just picked this up new for $15. It'll be close to first in line on my "to play next" pile.
jonnybryce said:
In a lot of respects, Nier is thoroughly mediocre or bad. And if you try to make straightforward comparisons between this game and other action-RPGs, the action seems pedestrian, and the RPG elements (weapon upgrades, tons of fetch quests, really poorly designed minigames like fishing and cultivating) are representative of the worst failures of the past. A lot of times, it isn't particularly fun, and some of the quest design, in both the main quest (Junk Heap) and sidequests, deliberately tries to alienate the player. Combined with some pretty poor PR upfront that invited comparisons to far more polished Western products like God of War, and it's no surprise that scores turned out as they did.
I would have expected some more favorable responses, like Deadly Premonition received, but that game was far more upfront about its weirdness, and it was released at $20. As a $60 new release, I can't really blame anyone who wrote this game off quickly after a few hours of play.
Individuals might appreciate a flawed game like Nier, but that's a matter of differing tastes as much as anything.
Just Forging Master stands between me and Platinum.. and it's a bitch. :lol
I feel like I'll be grinding for weeks to get these materials.
I feel like I'll be grinding for weeks to get these materials.
Perhaps people should stop reviewing games with checklists and comparison charts and actually judge them on their own merits.sonicmj1 said:
I think the difference is that while DS is brutally difficult, it's still recognizable early on as a strong "game" that stands independently of the whole. Nier is better than the sum but a lot of that is in spite of the gameplay, particularly in the first part where you have one weapon (and are slowly learning how meaningless most of the verses are). The genre shifting is kinda clever but most of the time isn't really gone into much depth. I could also see the Temple of Trials getting on nerves; some of them weren't bad but a couple were a bit frustrating due to the limitations and not in a good way.slaughterking said:
It would be a tough game to "correctly" review.
I think it probably deserves a low 8 or high 7, much in the way a really hardcore but generally well-made wargame should, since the appeal to most is fairly limited. This is using the scoring method as a consumer guide, too, since any other use of a 1-10 scale is dumb.
I love the game but there are plenty of frustrating as hell/truly bad parts of it. Anyone that denies that is fooling themselves.
Having to ride that Sand Skiff around Facade while taking a tour was frustrating enough. But having the tour happen in such a way that you had to make approximately four full circuits around the town was inexcusable. As is the text in that first fishing quest.
But beyond stuff like that I can't really call it a bad game. The combat has its moments, the bosses are great, and the story seems really interesting so far.
Having to ride that Sand Skiff around Facade while taking a tour was frustrating enough. But having the tour happen in such a way that you had to make approximately four full circuits around the town was inexcusable. As is the text in that first fishing quest.
But beyond stuff like that I can't really call it a bad game. The combat has its moments, the bosses are great, and the story seems really interesting so far.
ShockingAlberto
Member
You can skip the sand skiff segments by pressing start.ultron87 said:
You can skip the tour as a whole by just saying you don't want to take it, I think.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
You can skip the tour by saying you don't want to I'm at that part right now. I decided to take it myself.ShockingAlberto said:
This is what I don't get, nitpicks like this seem to hit Nier where it would be ignored in the case of other games. The length of a tour, which the game asks you if you want to skip, really?ultron87 said:
I really don't get it, I feel like I've been playing different games this generation from most people. Are Japanese games just so refined that they're held to a different standard from the rest of the world? Or is there just a bias towards western marketing styles that has been propagated by the media? It's like a lower budget game from a Japanese developer has 20 walls set up in front of it before it can be judged equally with other games.
Just take a step back for a second and think about the mechanics. Has anyone here played Assassin's Creed? That was the last game I played before Nier, and the fluidity of controls and character movement is like night and day. AC feels like something straight out of 1999 in comparison, despite being a game focused on movement, while Nier is an action RPG (compare to others in its genre such as Devil Summoner). The combat system and dungeon design are at the very least on par with Kingdom Hearts, despite taking on the more complex world design of Zelda, rather than a KH-esque stage select. The story, while in my opinion perhaps not as well realised as some people here may claim (though quite a fantastic concept), can easily kick aside any JRPG of this generation. That's before even considering the rest of the genre mixing, references and astounding soundtrack Nier has.
I just don't understand. When people review this game, it's like they've already decided the quality of the game based on its preconceived image and then try to make the facts fit. I know reviewing games is an impossible job due to time constraints and that all reviewers lie about playing games or taking time to actually think through their articles, but I just can't help but feel this game has especially been done over by the process.
(Sorry to quote you ultron, this is more aimed at reviews of Nier in general than your comments, it was just that one line summed it up for me.)
ZephyrFate
Banned
I think if you appreciate a fantastic story that is better than most videogames ever made, and a soundtrack that is DEFINITELY better than most videogames ever made, you'll enjoy Nier.sonicmj1 said:
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Funnily enough I actually think Nier was promoted pretty damn well considering how important it was/is to keep the story as mysterious as possible.
Check out these trailers, because I think especially after you've played the game you'll appreciate how on-point they are, without giving too much away.
Welcome to the Nier Trailer Park.
Let's start at the beginning:
E3 '09 Teaser
Guess that's what SE US office expected... hmmm. I presume E3 was where an ill-fated promo backstage really hurt it in the eyes of the critics. Roll on a couple of months, and at TGS we suddenly get a far more accurate picture of what Nier is all about.
TGS '09 - "Replicant"
TGS '09 - "Gestalt"
The final tagline about "looking into the mirror" was a pretty big hint about NG+, shame it got confused with the Gestalt/Replicant versioning.
Rolling along...
NA Release Trailer
They also released 3 themed trailers; 2 of which were pretty easy to find...
"Shades" Trailer
"Magic" Trailer
...but the third one is somewhat more obscure. And quite spoilery of some big moments
"Companions" Trailer
And then there was this...
Alt. Launch Trailer
Basically the intro of the game.
and lastly
"accolades" trailer
aka the "some people like it" trailer.
I think those trailers are all pretty good!
Check out these trailers, because I think especially after you've played the game you'll appreciate how on-point they are, without giving too much away.
Welcome to the Nier Trailer Park.
Let's start at the beginning:
E3 '09 Teaser
Guess that's what SE US office expected... hmmm. I presume E3 was where an ill-fated promo backstage really hurt it in the eyes of the critics. Roll on a couple of months, and at TGS we suddenly get a far more accurate picture of what Nier is all about.
TGS '09 - "Replicant"
TGS '09 - "Gestalt"
The final tagline about "looking into the mirror" was a pretty big hint about NG+, shame it got confused with the Gestalt/Replicant versioning.
Rolling along...
NA Release Trailer
They also released 3 themed trailers; 2 of which were pretty easy to find...
"Shades" Trailer
"Magic" Trailer
...but the third one is somewhat more obscure. And quite spoilery of some big moments
"Companions" Trailer
And then there was this...
Alt. Launch Trailer
Basically the intro of the game.
and lastly
"accolades" trailer
aka the "some people like it" trailer.
I think those trailers are all pretty good!
Similar threads
- Poll