I Love Rock 'n' Roll
Member
Xbox is dead!
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YTD Europe: PS5 4.68m; NSW 2.33m; X/S 0.88 m (Nov: PS5 1.21m; NSW 0.38m; X/S 0.18m)
DJ12
Member
I don't think a new console will do anything other than loss them some of their fans.
I'm sure if it's much more powerful than a ps5 Pro people will buy it and sub to gamepass, but when the ps6 comes out it will sell like hot cakes. What then, another new gen after 3 or 4 years.
They aren't every going to win anyone back with that strategy.
A better strategy would be to ditch tradition consoles and move to a different space, a more expensive device that is just a curated pc branded as xbox that costs about $1000 that can plug into the TV or just be used as a Windows box on a monitor with some sort of built in game mode
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I think Microsoft needs to do some drastic moves in Europe and the UK. It seems like they are doing some amazing deals in the US to push sales in december. I have no idea why they don't attempt to push anything else in any other region.
AyraSutoraifu
Member
I think xbox will almost dissolve in Europe in 2024.
Killjoy-NL
Banned
Would be pointless.
People really need to rewatch that Phil Spencer interview where he conceded the console wars and said they lost last-gen gen due to people building digital libraries.
It's like people are completely deaf to what he is actually saying, despite him even saying he reads all these discussions online and people just being completely wrong.
Xbox is done.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Tomorrow’s rumor?
“Next Gen Xbox coming in 2024”
“Next Gen Xbox coming in 2024”
There simply isn't a single reason for anyone to own an Xbox console. There is no reason for anyone to ditch their PC/PS4/PS5/Switch and go buy an XBox. And since they lost the previous gen, this is the simple result.
But yeah, that's the simple reason. To go a little more in depth, the trouble started in the second half of the 360 generation when they lost the tradional gamers by going after the (not existing anymore) casual Wii crowd.
The next fuck up was the extremely America-oriented TVTVTV presentation and how they paid 3837 billion dollars for some weird sports license no one outside USA cares about.
Being more expensive than the PS4 by enforcing the Kinect was a major mistake as well. As was the sharing thing. They fixed that before launch, but the damage had been done.
They further fucked up by releasing the Xbox One a year late in all the small countries, like Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal, Scandinavia, Japan, etc. Basically giving us the finger
At this point, most people were like, whatever, I'll just get a PS4 instead, and Xbox very quickly faded into obscurity.
At no point did they ever try to get us back. They simply offer almost the same as PlayStation, but that's not enough to get people to move back
When the hardware is mostly the same, the price is the same, and you have less (and worse reviewing) exclusives, you'll simply continue to lose ground.
And that's what happened in the past decade. Each year they continued their march downwards to the current 10% or so marketshare.
The only thing they tried to combat that downfall was GamePass, which I feel is a huge mistake.
GamePass, while I'm sure it's nice for some people, is NOT actually a selling point for most people right now. It might be as soon as the annual Fifa, CoD and Madden games get on there day 1, as well as all the big games like Final Fantasy, Assassins Creed and Monster Hunter, but not right now.
When I last checked there were only roughly 5-10 games on there I'd actually be interested in playing, and most of them I already had on Switch or PC. Now, if I already had GamePass for free, sure, I might give some more games a try, but I wouldn't actually pay for GamePass to try 'em out, when there's so many games I wanna play already. Early next year we get Granblue Fantasy Relink, Final Fantasy VII Remake, Unicorn Overlord, SaGA Emerald Beyond, some Nintendo exclusives, all of those I'd much rather pay full price for, than pay a monthly sub for some games I'm not actually that interested in. And I can already play all of them on my other consoles.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Yeah, maybe. I guess they just go third party and put their games everywhere soon and either let them have a console that's for those that buy it or give up and not bother.
I do think someone needs to step into the console space though. There needs to be some form of competition.
Actually, saying that AMD has been losing to nvidia for years and they managed to chip a little market share away this time. Maybe Microsoft is happy with whatever they get. God knows. Selling worse than xbox one is downright pathetic though and Microsoft needs to do something drastic to stop that happening by taking a long look in the mirror and relasing some games.
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Dr.brain64
Member
Head of xbox still has a job??
WOW
WOW
Dick Jones
Gold Member
Fire Spencer. Get someone outside MS to run the show. Give the new owner a few years to reboot the Xbox brand. No day 1 first party games on Xbox, have them enter about 18 months after sale. Have a rotating library of first party games come in and out of Gamepass so they aren't taken for granted by gamers. The sooner they give the next boss a running start to shape their next gen than take over more of the same next gen, the better the chance of Xbox redeeming itself as a major brand.
LordCBH
Member
I don’t really get the next Gen Xbox early rumors. Surely Microsoft would realize that selling the Series to their fans, and then abandoning it within 5-6 years after having mostly mediocre first party support would likely alienate a decent chunk of people who bought into this Gen. they have to realize it right? Right?
DJ12
Member
Xbox is £349 on amazon I think. They are trying, but you cannot make someone buy something they don't want.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Perhaps an even more alarming reading of these numbers is that MS are fine with these numbers.
Because let's be realistic, in terms of streaming services they have no real competition to worry about. So I can see them being happy if the overall subscriptions numbers are where they want them to be, especially if console sales are way down because it shows them converting console gamers into service users. A market that with continued investment will be unassailably theirs for years to come.
Because let's be realistic, in terms of streaming services they have no real competition to worry about. So I can see them being happy if the overall subscriptions numbers are where they want them to be, especially if console sales are way down because it shows them converting console gamers into service users. A market that with continued investment will be unassailably theirs for years to come.
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scarlet0pimp
Member
Lots of deals popped up in the UK today I noticed. Amazon have the X for £379 or £390 with a game and have seen the S for £180
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
But sadly, the vast majority of the sub service is locked to that vehicle and those sales are needed to drive growth. Which is why they are fire selling them now like they're on clearance.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Just went to hot UK deals, and it looks like the deals have gone live in the UK. Interesting to see how December performs.
I think Microsoft should 100 percent do a permanent price drop to this price.
nowhat
Member
I'm guessing the head of Xbox must be still performing some kind of job for Nadella.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
When you put it like that, these are just horrible numbers, and $350 XSX isn’t going to push the needle up whatsoever.
I mean frankly these sorts of numbers should have Phil explaining shit to Satya on what the fuck has he and the team been doing last 4 years (including the run up to X Series launch).
So I can absolutely see Phil throwing a Hail Mary and launching XSZ or whatever in 2025/2026 despite how terrible that decision might be.
When Satya told Phil he should work towards a 100% cloud future, Phil took him to the word.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Look, we can see on the chart that despite PS5 sales increase, Xbox is still at the top!
I dont think people realise, this is absolutely disastrous.
Some stores are beginning to remove Xbox entirely from shelves in several European countries. The brand is seriously dying in this continent as we speak.
yurinka
Member
Many thanks to Christopher Dring, GamesIndustry.biz and Install-Base
Data does not include all markets and is missing Germany.
November
YTD
LOL a 5:1 split during their 3rd year?
I remember the MS guy saying PS dominated them 80%-20% in Europe, so 4:1.
It's getting worse: YTD -if the estimate is accurate- so far is 5.27:1.
And November -if the estimate is accurate- 6.55:1 (86.75%-13.24% if my maths are ok).
Maybe the promotions are the start of the replacement, like preparing a new leadership team.
Who knows, maybe there's a secret twist: Bobby Kotick quits as ABK CEO at the end of the year... because he will become CEO of Xbox Gaming Division January 1st! xDDD
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yazenov
Member
Wait till the next-gen. This time it will be different ™
Unknown Soldier
Member
This is the MS that literally rebooted Windows Phone twice in 3 years and made every previous year's device obsolete and not forwards compatible and every new device not backwards compatible. And they did this two times in a 3 year period. Most people thought they were insane. So your guess is as good as mine.
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Nonehxc
Member
I think they've cut the price to 399 euros, at least in Spain, because I've seen ads from a few nerd shops with that as the price...but don't know if it's MS or the shops shedding lard.
Microsoft needs to either get rid of the Xbox brand, because it's fucking tainted...or kick it out of the park with a killer next-gen and give the Xbox brand a new and spanking life.
Just being early Xbox360 like isn't gonna work, because Sony then releases their system and aww shit here we go again. They need to be early and for it to be so brutal Sony can't reach it because it would mean subsidizing it so hard it would be mad for them so they have to do with notably inferior hardware...because if they do a regular next-gen a year earlier, then Sony comes when they come with more power and newer hardware bits and secret sauces. I mean shopping for the best of the best you can cram on a console, and since their war chest is botomless, subsidize it so hard it's still affordable for tens of millions of people around the world. Sony can't touch that war chest, that much I'm sure about.
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Ronin_7
Member
Irrelevant to move the needle
. It's pretty much behind EA or Fortnite of life.
It won't change anything.
MisterXDTV
Member
Last time they killed Xbox One X after 2 years and a half telling people who bought it that the much cheaper Series S was better...
I wouldn't be so sure
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I'll never get tired of seeing Xbox tank.
Wouldn't you want them to release games that would tempt you to own one?
H-I-M
Member
Why would I? I already have the superior PS5 and Switch.
If anything I want the Xbox brand to die, like their Windows Phone or HD DVD did.
Phil also needs to get FIRED asap.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Has Xbox always performed this poorly in Europe or is this a more recent thing?
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Why would I? I already have the superior PS5 and Switch.
If anything I want the Xbox brand to die, like their Windows Phone or HD DVD did.
Phil also needs to get FIRED asap.
This mentality confuses me?
If Microsoft made games that you liked you wouldn't want to play them just becuase they are on xbox, or would refuse to like them becuase of the platform they are on? It just sounds odd to me.
Woopah
Member
If the needle is "improve Xbox sales in continental Europe by being on Gamepass" then pretty much every franchise is irrelevant.Irrelevant to move the needle
It's pretty much behind EA or Fortnite of life.
It won't change anything.
Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
if you take away enough popular, previously third party, IP from Sony you sure can!
Nonehxc
Member
Kids love Xs, true.
So do edgy dudebros.
And Xbros love Phil Spencer.
I got it!
The Xpencer XperienceTM
Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
Sounds XpensiveKids love Xs, true.
So do edgy dudebros.
And Xbros love Phil Spencer.
I got it!
The Xpencer XperienceTM
Nonehxc
Member
Unknown Soldier
Member
Ah yes, the AMD Radeon™ Naming Methodology™Kids love Xs, true.
So do edgy dudebros.
And Xbros love Phil Spencer.
I got it!
The Xpencer XperienceTM
Radeon RX 7900 XTX (actual product name) is peak Radeon™ naming, though I feel like they could fit more X's into it. Maybe call it the RadeonX XRX X7900X XTX XXX Edition?
I wonder if AMD knows adding more X's will never make AMD cards go faster than Nvidia cards which have minimal X's in the name. GeForce RTX 4090 has only a single solitary X in the name yet remains untouched by any X-filled product AMD can make
The problem with Xbox Series X is similar, they have multiple X's in the name but it can't beat the X-less Playstation 5
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Gaelyon
Member
You're right but marketing and ads are very expensive. X-box is poor, they barely managed to buy ABK and Bethesda how can they could have any money left to compete against juggernaut Nintendo and giant Sony ?
Pelta88
Member
I get the jest but once you step back to the reality of the situation… when it comes to Marketing you need great ip to do the heavy lifting… And they haven’t released a game “The broader market” considers great.
Thirty7ven
Banned
It’s a brand problem at this point, not a product problem. They already made their value play, didn’t work, and now they run the real risk of telling the costumer that it’s an inferior product with the pricing. It’s a tough nut to crack, but they can’t change the past. If you’re a new console player, and you look at what’s available I mean… just compare the games that you can get on each subscription or get for cheap, it’s not even close. And it’s very hard to tell a new costumer hey forget that, maybe in the future Xbox will have the bigger hits. It’s not happening.
Also we’re three years into the conversation for this gen, next year doesn’t look like it’s going to make things any better for Xbox, so who are you selling it to? To people who have a bone to pick with PlayStation, to people who already have a PlayStation?
Even in the U.S, at this rate it’s going to be 2-1 install base next year.
Starfield was it, it really was, it needed to be Breath of the Wild or something and it’s so far from it that it really explains why MS has seemingly changed strategy in the last 12 months. You can’t tell me Sara Bond trying to convince us Starfield was the most important rpg of all time wasn’t an Hail Mary trying to get the ball rolling and maybe hit a royal flush. These people don’t know what’s going to hit big time, not when it’s a new IP, so it meant more than we realized imo.
And having had time with my Series X, and playing around games on Gamepass, this ain’t even close to being enough and people who thought this was gonna be it don’t understand the industry. I think when they decided to buy ABK the rest of the generation looked completely different at the time, but now it’s like, shit they would be in big deep trouble without that acquisition.
It was never outperformed 18 to 1, that is sure. 2023 must be the worst performing year ever in Europe for Xbox.
SenkiDala
Member
What those sales show is something I feared. The Xbox Series X and S sold quiet well in 2021/2022, it was alright, but I thought back then "mmmh I feel they're selling well because it is VERY HARD to get a PS5" and it seems that I was right. I saw on internet people getting an XSS/XSX and clearly saying "oh fuck it I'm tired to search for a PS5, anyway I wanna play FIFA and ASSCREED for now" and honestly I feel like most (at least more than 60%) of the XSS/XSX sales from 2021/2022 are from people wanting to buy a PS5 but cannot find one.
Microsoft, I wish you that xCloud and Gamepass will become an outstanding success (it won't, at all) because if not, you're done in the gaming industry or your only choice left will be becoming a 3rd party publisher. Which isn't a bad way to make money.
Microsoft, I wish you that xCloud and Gamepass will become an outstanding success (it won't, at all) because if not, you're done in the gaming industry or your only choice left will be becoming a 3rd party publisher. Which isn't a bad way to make money.
SkylineRKR
Member
This is kind of true.
360 was an initial success I say, but still outsold by PS2 in 2006 and even 2007 IIRC. It was a success because they beat Sony to the market, who in turn delayed PS3 for Europe and carried a price tag of 599. But I think it already evened out when Sony dropped the 40gb unit at 399, and skyrocketed once they rebranded the PS3 with the Slim version. PS3 is Sony's least succesful console to date but it still handily beat MS in Europe and even ultimately beat it worldwide in fact. I think the only European country where MS had a consistent lead was the UK.
So MS with a perfect storm still couldn't beat Sony at its most bleak.
PS4 ofcourse cleaned house, worsened by the fact MS was late in several countries. All the goodwill the 360 might've built up was thrown out of the window.
About dudebro gaming I say your are correct. MS heavily banked on co-op shooters, and mostly tough looking like Gears of War. These games were obviously products of their time. During this era Japan was pretty much laughing stock, Japanese games didn't sell that well in the west. The media also kind of brushed these games off at the time. Which benefited MS who had a pedigree with western shooters mostly. MS kept these as pillars basically, Gears and also Halo. Sony meanwhile kept investing in Japanese games, but also single player games despite not all of them selling gangbusters. Look at the sales of some of those SP IP today. Its been a good investment.
And this is why I come to the conclusion that MS doesn't read the market well, or at all.
1)They went all in on Kinect... in 2011. The Wii was fucking dying. In 2013 they forcefeeded it with their new system, motion controls were fucking buried.
2)They never invested in single player games, daring projects and kept banking on samey gameplay experiences. Instead, they focused on securing PS2 third party IP and kind of celebrated it as a win each time. Forgetting to invest in a software empire of their own.
3)Which means that even after 20 years on the market, they still don't really have an identity of their own like Nintendo and Playstation have.
4)They seem to jump on the social dilemma of the moment bandwagon each time ie. LBGT or BLM (like a trans at Bethesda, Hispanic month etc). They should stick with their guns like Sony does with their commercials, Power your Dreams was pretty good.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Xbox being so closely tied to the success of the 360, and the 360’s success being so tied to the dudebro era does not get enough attention. The brand has never really moved on from that, you can see it and feel it when you look at Xbox YouTube for example. How many of the hosts and people who cover Xbox still sound and look like they were pulled straight out of that era? And it’s easy to understand why they loved it so much, they made a lot of friends playing online during that time.
TheGodfather07
Member
Even worse for Microsoft is the fact that they've been in this industry for over 20 years and they barely have any presence in Europe and japan after all that time. The blame is entirely on them for that.
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Crayon
Member
The dudbro thing started with halo lan parties on the first xbox. Xbox would have been nothing without that. My only experience meeting up with people was for fighting games and that was on average a macho crowd as far as gamers go, but nothing compared to a good halo party. You had straight up jacked & tan meatheads shotgunning budweisers and gaming all night. It was kind of amazing, actually. I remember thinking it was great how these guys I would never assume would blow their whole weekends playing games were enjoying it so much. Xbox really would have gone nowhere if not for that.