I'm pretty sure it is going to be both
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Zelda: BOTW Timeline Discussion *UNMARKED SPOILERS*
- Thread starter Durock
- Start date
I'm pretty sure it is going to be both
This shot from the recent trailer made that even more clearly which is what confused me when I saw this fan art... how do people see it that way? It's clearly the shape of a pig head with a giant mouth that dissipates into the violent purple/red corruption cloud.
Yeah I don't understand it either. The trailer literally shows it bursting out screaming.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Of course it's a pig, nobody is debating that.
I don't know about "pretty sure," but it would certainly be cool if it was a multi-form Ganon. Like Kefka's tower form from FFVI.
I have a weird theory that this is called a Calamity because it appeared from no where and at the heart of civilisation, and it is because the essence of Ganon took over someone or something and burst forth, unable to be contained. Meaning that upon its defeat we could see a familiar face was trapped within the corruption that makes up the Calamity. BUT THATS JUST A THEOR--
Anyway, I think whatever waits for us at Hyrule Castle is going to be pretty special. We haven't faught Ganon in a 3D Zelda game since 2006 (not counting Hyrule Warriors) and as they introduced the whole Demise backstory in the previous game they could really do a big twist that involves The Calamity in this game.
Anyway, I think whatever waits for us at Hyrule Castle is going to be pretty special. We haven't faught Ganon in a 3D Zelda game since 2006 (not counting Hyrule Warriors) and as they introduced the whole Demise backstory in the previous game they could really do a big twist that involves The Calamity in this game.
Let's go over this again.
- The Legend of Zelda - first game.
- Adventure of Link - direct sequel to first game. Told the legend of the sleeping Zelda and the lost triforce of courage.
- A Link to the Past - prequel about Link and Zelda's ancestors. Reveals the history of the triforce and Ganon.
- Link's Awakening and Oracles - direct sequels to ALttP with same Link.
- A Link Between Worlds - sequel to ALttP.
- Ocarina of Time - prequel to ALttP based on ALttP's backstory.
- Majora's Mask - direct OoT sequel.
- Wind Waker - sequel to OoT that begins with a recap of OoT and keeps referencing OoT.
- Phantom Hourglass - direct sequel to WW.
- Spirit Tracks - sequel to WW and PH.
- Twilight Princess - also a sequel to OoT that shows what happened to Ganondorf after Link tattled on him in the new timeline created when he was sent back in time at the end of OoT.
- Skyward Sword - Prequel that shows origin of Master Sword and Hyrule and explains Zelda's holy powers.
Minish Cap was said to be a prequel to OoT when it came out but the game itself doesn't really have strong connections like the ones above, and that leaves Four Sword Adventures, which was developed as a game taking place between OoT and ALttP before the references to ALttP were scrapped and the game was tacked on to a random place on the timeline.
MOST of the games were developed with relationships to other games in mind and take care of it on their own. The split timeline was introduced by Miyamoto and Aonuma in an interview before the release of Wind Waker. Fans didn't need Hyrule Historia to figure it out. The only major issue was ALttP and the NES games, because after Wind Waker and Twilight Princess filled both forks in the timeline split it was impossible to tell which one they belonged to. Nintendo created a third timeline to fix that problem.
Pretty much. I'd love for it to be between OoT and ALttP and feature the Hero of Time. I really would. But there's just too many inconsistencies imo and Aunoma's comments regarding Ganon pretty much cement its placement post-AoL, which I'm also absolutely excited for.
Tritroid
Member
I've been trying to keep up with this; last I heard Aonuma confirmed that it's NOT in the Adult Child timeline, and shrugged off the Koroks being present as just a 'they look cool with the art style'.
But why are people saying it's after AoL? With the presence of the Deku Tree, the ToT, Hyrule Castle/Town ruins, wouldn't it make more sense to be higher up? Like in between LttP and OoT? Also, wasn't there a comment found that says something like "complete the hero of time's destiny"? I'm not seeing the logic behind it being tied to Zelda 2...which is almost a millennium after OoT.
But why are people saying it's after AoL? With the presence of the Deku Tree, the ToT, Hyrule Castle/Town ruins, wouldn't it make more sense to be higher up? Like in between LttP and OoT? Also, wasn't there a comment found that says something like "complete the hero of time's destiny"? I'm not seeing the logic behind it being tied to Zelda 2...which is almost a millennium after OoT.
Aonuma has repeatedly drawn attention in recent interviews when asked about the Timeline placement to the line spoken by the old lady in the recent trailer.
If this game were after OoT then you only have one instance of Ganondorf, not even really Ganon as he would later be known as instead, attacking Hyrule and the Royal Family. While if the game is set after AoL then there really is a known history of repeated attacks by Ganon.
The inclusion of the ToT, Hyrule Castle Town ruins and Great Deku Tree doesn't really preclude the game being set shortly before or after AoL. As for the spoiler, that could be taken in a whole number of different ways. The odds that this Link is any previous Link, let alone OoT's is tremendously small. So that spoiler can be applied almost anywhere given the right context.
Based on these comments from Aunoma regarding the game's placement on the timeline....
"So... in the trailer there was a sort of Wind Waker-esque element, and to a degree you could say that the animation and the art style have some influences from Wind Waker, so I can see why people would draw those connections.
But with Breath of the Wild, one thing I'm really keen to emphasise is that a big part of the appeal of the game is surprise, unexpected encounters, so I want fans to experience surprise and to experience an element of the unexpected - I feel if I spoke too much about that kind of thing, it might spoil things for people, so I'd rather not touch on that too deeply."
"I can not yet answer this question because I want players to discover some elements of the game on their own, but you have some clues when you see that in the game there is the voice of a young person Woman who tells you that the world you are in has suffered many battles against Ganon. You can imagine roughly what period it is."
Post-AoL, you're in a world where Ganon has been fought against many, many times throughout the ages. That can't apply to the period between OoT-->ALttP because as it currently stands, Ganon has only been fought once between those two games. You could argue that maybe Ganon attacked time and time again within that time period and attempt to interpret that way, but you wouldn't be able to just "imagine roughly what period it is".
Seems to me he's telling us without telling us it's placement as it's easy to "imagine" it taking place post AoL where Ganon has been battled against many, many times. At that point, it would have been OoT, ALttP, OoS/OoA, ALBW, LoZ, and his resurrection prevented in AoL.
EDIT: Beaten by Enduin!
GodfatherX
Member
I think ganon goes from flying pig form to more piglike standing man with horns in the scene where he is circling the castle
Being a lot like this firm from OT
Being a lot like this firm from OT
tali'zorah84
Member
Yeah, I think he circles the castle in pig form, opens his mouth and roars, and then stands up in "human" form and sort of floats backwards? Took me a while to catch it but it's a neat effect.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I really hope it's a swirling mass of all of his different forms (and if he has a human component, he's really old, like in that fanart).
If this is after Zelda 2, I have to wonder if preventing his resurrection in that game messed with Demise's constant reincarnation. Maybe he wasn't able to come back in a real body this time, so he floats around like a spirit or a force of nature. My bet is on him getting a body by the end game though.
If this is after Zelda 2, I have to wonder if preventing his resurrection in that game messed with Demise's constant reincarnation. Maybe he wasn't able to come back in a real body this time, so he floats around like a spirit or a force of nature. My bet is on him getting a body by the end game though.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Recent famitsu details seems to confirm or heavily imply some interesting points regarding characters. Has me more hyped
Details?
The bird people are Rito.
I'm not sure how I feel about this, Nintendo might not care and are just throwing everything into this game or the timeline placement will make sense in the end? I just can't see it being after Wind Waker personally.
In Wind Waker the Zora had evolved into the Rito, a tribe of flightless humanoid birds living under the tutelage of Valoo who gave them wings once they came of age which allowed them to fly.
These Rito seem much more birdlike and are depicted with wings as arms at all times (of the two we've seen). This could either mean we're seeing another evolution of the Zora in another timeline or Rito is just a Hylian term for bird and applies to different creatures. We could also be seeing the natural evolution of a certain type of Zora who were always destined to evolve into this form in no matter what timeline they are in. We already know of River and Ocean Zora (Fresh and Salt Water) this could be the difference or something else entirely.
It also seems that the Goron shares naming characteristics with Darunia from OoT, which is cool as he shares a Beth similar hair/beard style. Oddly they've been showing all these artworks of the 3 characters from the races with the blue fabric on them but nothing about the Geurdo lady who I assume is one of he four main helpers/companions that help you/lead you to the dungeons similar to the sages in Ocarina of Time.
We're nearly 28 days away so times are exciting and I'm worried about huge spoilers but none of this spoils anything for me, this is just a fun discussion of the races and characters appearing in the game.
http://nintendoeverything.com/new-zelda-breath-of-the-wild-character-details/
Official bios of a few of the characters....
Zelda is the princess of the destroyed Hyrule kingdom. She goes to investigate ancient ruins scattered around the world. Famitsu says shes a wise and curious girl, but also has a deep complexity.
Mifa is a Zora girl who lives in Hyrule. She has a special power that no other Zoras have, but perhaps due to that shes somewhat introverted and doesnt talk much. Famitsu wonders how she will use the spear shes wielding.
Darkel (or literally Darukeru) is a Goron warrior who lives in the mountains of Hyrule. Hes normally calm, but when entering battles, he changes into a very brave warrior that screams loudly while sweeping away enemies.
Finally, Reebal is a member of the bird-like Rito tribe which lives in the skies of Hyrule. He is spotted wearing the same blue scarf as Darkel and Mifa, and each of them also wield different weapons.
Some are theorizing it's now in the Adult timeline due the presence of the Rito, who evolved from the Zora after Hyrule was flooded. Though I don't think that there's anything preventing them from co-existing in the Downfall Timeline. If it is indeed following after AoL--which the majority of signs seem to indicate--then it's not implausible to think they somehow 'came to be', so to speak, within those many years.
I'm pretty sure Darkel (Darukeru) is a descendant of Darunia. The name is just too similar for it to not be a hint towards that imo.
EDIT: Two-for-one special there between iFireZ and I haha
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Pretty sure its Adult Timeline now. The Koroks were already a major hint and now with the Rito, i can see this being set hundreds of years after ST
The Korok's though are simply the Kokiri in another form. Nothing stopping them from changing into the Koroks on any other timeline. Remember, the Kokiri are 'spirits' and can change forms.
And there are way too many issues for it to take place after Spirit Tracks. For one, there no old Hyrule anymore and the Hyrule we're seeing in BOTW is the old one. ST is a brand new Hyrule.
Secondly, that timeline has led to an ever increasing rise in technology. It has been very progressive in that regard. We're seeing ancient tech from the Sheikah being utilized, but from what we've seen it's not a world where technology is on the rise like in ST.
And three, it's inconsistent with Aunoma's comments where Ganon has been battled many times. He says it's easy to imagine where it takes place with that very hint, and that falls directly in line with a post-AoL where he has been fought many times.
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
In keeping with Occam's razor:
We've seen "100 years after OoT" games for Adult and Child timelines; we're due for one for the fallen timeline.
Just a easy as saying "Rito = WW timeline", is saying "Child timeline = Zoras remain", "Adult timeline = Rito", "Downfall timeline = both"
I've updated the OP with all current relevant information.
I'm with you on this one Durock. It's either at the start or end of the downfall timeline and with Aunoma's comments I'd say end is likely. The fact we have a new race of birds that share their name with the race from WW suggests things sure, but the world, events and history we know so far suggest other things. We've also seen other races appear in other games or change apperance between games. Sure the Koroks and Rito are only in WW so far but if by the end of this game we learn that we are in the child timeline then I'll admit I was wrong and be a little disappointed.
The fact that this is a land that has had to deal with Ganon's power and destruction over and over again and that this is Ganon and not Ganondorf, this is a world in ruin, a world which has similarities to many other games before it and hint at a long history.
Nintendo has always changed the world design, layout and character designs between games. Zora in OoT are different to TP and that was probably purely down to art style. There are a lot of WW like things returning and being hinted at but right now we can only speculate and nothing is a firm this way or that way. I do hope we get an ingame answer for all of this though, explaining where and when we are in Zelda history. SS never explicitly told us where we were but it's fairly clearly from the story and quests... and we were told by Nintendo that it was the first game in the series, chronologically.
Never has a post made more sense to me, this is great. We've actually never seen a full 3D game in the downfall timeline, the closest thing would be A Link Between Worlds. I also think the colouring and design of the Zora in BoTW may link to a split evolutionary path for then, one more blue and feathery and another more red and... what do fish have? Gills.
The fact that in the child temple the Temple of Time decays to such a point of ruin that it is taken over by woodland and the lost woods grows around it, but the master sword still recides within it - points to that it's not in that timeline as the Temple of Time is seen standing (although slightly worse for wear) in BoTW. In the Child Timeline the Master Sword is moved beneath Hyrule Castle and the earth around the castle seems to have sunk away and correct me if I'm wrong no temple of time can be seen at all in WW. While in BoTW it bears a striking resemblance to OoT's ToT and while forgotten it is in much better condition than it was in TP. Plus the Master Sword has a new pedestal in BoTW, one deep in the woods being guarded by the forest guardian... but what other games is the Master Sword in the woods? Others in the downfall timeline.
I've seen some suggestions that after the end of TP the master sword was moved to the woods... but how is the ToT now standing much more complete than it was in TP? I've also heard that this could be after the waters abve receeded after WW, but due to the fact we are very little under the sea it's hard to argue from a geographical or age point because these structures could have been better preserverd and we don't know how long (exactly) after OoT that he goddesses flooded the land.
One point I would like to discuss with anyone is why the Temple of Time in BoTW doesn't have the Sword Chamber behind the door of time or anything like that. A goddess statue is the only thing there now. Is this purely because it wasn't needed and Nintendo has this new mechanic to do with the statues so put one there instead? Or is there more of an ingame/lore reason do we think?
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
Thanks.
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
I don't remember but I don't believe there were any Zora in Wind Waker but if think about it, I guess a flooded Hyrule wouldn't effect them as much. So the Zora that went to the mountain top became Rito tribe and the ones that stayed underwater remained Zora.
It seems to indicate that all of the Zora evolved. Which when you think about it is kind of odd with all the water lol Not sure why they wouldn't survive without evolving, but they never show up in any game on the Adult Timeline post-OoT. With the exception of the Zora spirit (Ruto's descendant) that Ganondorf killed after the seal was broken.
He didn't definitively dismay it from the adult timeline but he did say that it takes place in a Hyrule that has been attacked many times by Ganon. He did 100% say that Korok's appear because he and the team thought they fit the art style perfectly and they decided to bring them over.
Fourth Storm
Member
I've advocated a post OoT pre ALTTP placement myself, but it's becoming pretty clear this has little relation to OoT and is very likely post-AoL. Aonuma has said as much with his comment about fighting Ganon "many times." None of the character bios reveal any connection to Ocarina either, although it has yet to be seen what additional backstory the game yields, of course.
The only thing that gets me is how much the map resembles that of OoT. We've seen them include landmarks from the original LoZ already, though, such as those twin mountains and Spectacle Rock. Maybe we'll see the 2 central lakes from LoZ in some fashion? But where were Deku Tree and everything else in the original 2 games? Will this game give a creative explanation to some of the discrepancies between the NES games and the 3D ones?
The only thing that gets me is how much the map resembles that of OoT. We've seen them include landmarks from the original LoZ already, though, such as those twin mountains and Spectacle Rock. Maybe we'll see the 2 central lakes from LoZ in some fashion? But where were Deku Tree and everything else in the original 2 games? Will this game give a creative explanation to some of the discrepancies between the NES games and the 3D ones?
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
"Champions Shirt" points to a post wind waker world.
Admiral Woofington
Member
that's quite a stretch. All it says is that it is a shirt given to those who have earned the respect of the royal family.
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
Is it really? We've only seen it in one game far I know. Seems fairly simple to me (which of course means I'm completely wrong). And all though there are signs to point to other timelines I'm riding with old Hyrule after the flood recedes.
Where have we seen it before? Are you referring to Link's clothing when he first starts the game in TWW? Because if so, that's his "pajamas" lol
OoT is pre timeline split so it being similar or having similar locarions and layouts would make sense. Downfall timeline post AoL is really the only place it could fit given the history of attacks from Ganon. Between OoT and ALttP would not have the history of attacks fro Ganon.
Ganon is not present in any other time line except for his appearance in TP. He is later resurrected in FSA. Which would indicate he was not arround attacking Hyrule in between.
All the references like Ritos, champion shjrts, koroks, and others are just easter eggs or placed there because they fit the style.
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
Whats bugs me with the post-AoL theory is that there are no more Koroks/Zoras/Rito/Gerudo species between OoT and ALTTP and it's all about Hylians. I find it hard to believe they come back. There are still some evidences to move the game between OoT and ALTTP (all the races are there, the Great Plateau contains remnants of OoT's ToT and market, castle has been moved in the center (like where it is in ALTTP), Master Sword being moved from ToT to Lost Woods by Zelda as seen in the trailer (like where it is in ALTTP), Ganon being a "spirit" that reincarnate in anyone's body (like all the games post-ALTTP), etc.). I know Aonuma spoke about a land attacked by Ganon multiple times, but he might wanted to stay vague to not tell any spoiler.
And if it is truly many centuries post-AoL, I think Nintendo wants to quit the Zelda Timeline and it's an easy way to do so.
And if it is truly many centuries post-AoL, I think Nintendo wants to quit the Zelda Timeline and it's an easy way to do so.
The only way I can see this occurring in the adult timeline is if the whole "timeline convergence" theory is true, but that still just sounds too wildly implausible for my liking and it doesn't seem likely to me that Nintendo would use such an absurd-sounding lore idea just to shoehorn all the elements of past Zelda games into one title.
I think it's much more plausible that a specific branch of Zora happened to evolve into Rito at some point during the downfall timeline just as the Kokiri took the form of Koroks, paralleling what happened in Wind Waker without necessarily being tied to that game's continuity. That way Nintendo introduces some really nice throwbacks to TWW without having to force its timeline into BotW's history.
I think it's much more plausible that a specific branch of Zora happened to evolve into Rito at some point during the downfall timeline just as the Kokiri took the form of Koroks, paralleling what happened in Wind Waker without necessarily being tied to that game's continuity. That way Nintendo introduces some really nice throwbacks to TWW without having to force its timeline into BotW's history.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Basing a portion of the theory on races not being there isn't a proper way to do so. You're comparing a game that came out within the first couple of titles to games that further expanded on the mythos and they could add new races and creatures. They can give any number of excuses as to why certain races weren't here and there, but ultimately it's a simple enough reason that they didn't think of these races before and now they are putting everything on a timeline.
I think the Sheika solve beginning or end of the downfall timeliness personally. 100 years ago, the Sheika were known guards to the royal family and would know Ganon as Ganondorf and as demise, they are closest to the legends and the old woman's voice from the trailer is probably Impa, who we know would be knowledgeable about all of these things.
Sheika don't really exist in hyrule in the downfall timeline, only Impa exists in the downfall timeline I think. Yet there is at least 121 of them at the beginning of the story for botw as they all join shrines, it even says on the official map how they are scattered. To me, this points directly to the fall of the sheikah which can't take place further down in the timeline than pre-alttp imo. Think about it, this game only has one point we can speculate on, it also fits with the relative decay of the kingdom, since alttp doesn't have oot era ruins all other the place like we are seeing even off the plateau in this game.
That's what a rebuilt kingdom and 100s of years can do for you.
Again, Ganon being the source of destruction many times over the history of hyrule is fine from the perspective of sheika who tell us this because they know the entire history and how Ganon is demise and demise technically had already been an ancient destructive force for Hylia in skyward sword. The important part is that he is called Ganon now, so post oot.
Sheika don't really exist in hyrule in the downfall timeline, only Impa exists in the downfall timeline I think. Yet there is at least 121 of them at the beginning of the story for botw as they all join shrines, it even says on the official map how they are scattered. To me, this points directly to the fall of the sheikah which can't take place further down in the timeline than pre-alttp imo. Think about it, this game only has one point we can speculate on, it also fits with the relative decay of the kingdom, since alttp doesn't have oot era ruins all other the place like we are seeing even off the plateau in this game.
That's what a rebuilt kingdom and 100s of years can do for you.
Again, Ganon being the source of destruction many times over the history of hyrule is fine from the perspective of sheika who tell us this because they know the entire history and how Ganon is demise and demise technically had already been an ancient destructive force for Hylia in skyward sword. The important part is that he is called Ganon now, so post oot.
Have we considered the possibility that this might actually be a remake of the original LoZ?
I mean:
-In both games you start out in a cave, and the first person you meet is an old man.
-The world seems mostly desolate and filled with monsters.
-Many of the landscape features are the same(yeah that's true of most of the games, but those two mountains...).
-It shares the same design philosophy of an open world focused on exploration.
-The idea that Link's been asleep for 100 years could be a setup for a sequel remake of Zelda II.
I mean:
-In both games you start out in a cave, and the first person you meet is an old man.
-The world seems mostly desolate and filled with monsters.
-Many of the landscape features are the same(yeah that's true of most of the games, but those two mountains...).
-It shares the same design philosophy of an open world focused on exploration.
-The idea that Link's been asleep for 100 years could be a setup for a sequel remake of Zelda II.
Sorry, just not seeing it. I think this Ganon will take a completely new form, just like Link and Zelda and every other character and race we've seen.
FloweryMarston
Member
where have you seen this?